EPToh, this is the 45th school shooting? are you kidding me?
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2365
| Forum Index > Closed |
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
|
Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
oh, this is the 45th school shooting? are you kidding me? | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Behold. Everyone is running the numbers and they speak for themselves. And the best part is the GOP and NRA has to challenge them all, not just the white houses. Really smart play by the White House. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States46203 Posts
On October 02 2015 08:12 JinDesu wrote: I think he really spoke well in this press conference. A really great speech by Obama. And surely no one can be surprised at that; after all, he's had a lot of practice saying the same fucking thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, after every mass shooting. By the end of that speech, you could tell that he was so fucking disappointed with the fact that nothing's changing, because Congress just doesn't give a shit about these shootings. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States46203 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States46203 Posts
Gun violence in America, in 17 maps and charts America is an exceptional country when it comes to guns. It's one of the few countries in which the right to bear arms is constitutionally protected, and presidential candidates in other nations don't cook bacon with guns. But America's relationship with guns is unique in another crucial way: Among developed nations, the US is far and away the most violent — in large part due to the easy access many Americans have to firearms. These charts and maps show what that violence looks like compared with the rest of the world, why it happens, and why it's such a tough problem to fix. ~ Introduction to http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gun-violence-statistics It's a huge article with a ton of really good, representative graphs. | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
edit: whoops that's also in the article, never mind. | ||
|
Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
| ||
|
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
And because I'm sick of this anti-NRA bullshit, I'm going to point out that this happened in a gun-free zone. Possession, use, or threatened use of firearms (including but not limited to BB guns, air guns, water pistols, and paint guns) ammunition, explosives, dangerous chemicals, or any other objects as weapons on college property, except as expressly authorized by law or college regulations, is prohibited. ~Umpqua CCYes, the gunman broke multiple laws before the first shot was fired. He was virtually guaranteed that nobody had good means to stop him in that lecture hall. He was free to question the victims on their religious views (as I'm seeing reported) at his leisure. | ||
|
Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On October 02 2015 15:19 Danglars wrote: End the media trumpeting this guy. Seriously. And because I'm sick of this anti-NRA bullshit, I'm going to point out that this happened in a gun-free zone. ~Umpqua CC Yes, the gunman broke multiple laws before the first shot was fired. He was virtually guaranteed that nobody had good means to stop him in that lecture hall. He was free to question the victims on their religious views (as I'm seeing reported) at his leisure. GUISE IF ERRYBODY HAD GUNS THAN DAT GUY WHAT WAS PATERIOT AND EKSERCISED HIS CECOND MENMINT RIGHTS WUDDA KILLEDED DAT DERMENED GUNMERN!!!!!!!!!!!!! #GOODGURYSWIFGUNS #FREEDOM #OBAMAKILLEDEM #THEYWASPROLLYBLACKANDDESERVEDTODIE #COMMUNITYCOLLEGE #POOR #EUTHANISED #FREEDOMFORTHOSEWHOCANAFFORDASECURITYDETAIL User was warned for this post | ||
|
Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On October 02 2015 15:19 Danglars wrote: End the media trumpeting this guy. Seriously. And because I'm sick of this anti-NRA bullshit, I'm going to point out that this happened in a gun-free zone. ~Umpqua CC Yes, the gunman broke multiple laws before the first shot was fired. He was virtually guaranteed that nobody had good means to stop him in that lecture hall. He was free to question the victims on their religious views (as I'm seeing reported) at his leisure. so...the solution is to arm everyone? negligible amount of the population owns guns here in australia, i don't see mass shootings and our inability to stop such actions.. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On October 02 2015 16:14 Doraemon wrote: so...the solution is to arm everyone? Is the solution to disarm the victims? The university tried that; the buildings are "gun-free zones"*. A pity the shooter didn't read the signs. *The campus is technically not gun-free. The buildings the shooter went to work in are, though. | ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10920 Posts
You don't need gun free zones or any of that mumbojumbo, all you need are "sane" laws and the will to actually enforce them. Btw: "there are allready too many guns around" is NOT an argument. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On October 02 2015 16:35 Velr wrote: You fucking implement "normal" gun laws like basically every other developed Nation in the world has. You don't need gun free zones or any of that mumbojumbo, all you need are "sane" laws and the will to actually enforce them. What are these "normal" gun laws? Like Korea and England's near-prohibition of guns? Or Switzerland's completely-legal automatic weapons? How about Mexico's single legal gun store and 200 round per year restriction? On October 02 2015 16:35 Velr wrote: Btw: "there are allready too many guns around" is NOT an argument. It's not an argument to people who want to believe clapping your hands makes the bad guns fly into the air on a rainbow and vanish in the horizon. To people who are interested in how exactly the government is going to confiscate three hundred million weapons without, say, the marijuana or alcohol effect...well, maybe it is an argument after all. | ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10920 Posts
"and the will to actually enforce them." went over your head? | ||
|
Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 02 2015 15:19 Danglars wrote: End the media trumpeting this guy. Seriously. And because I'm sick of this anti-NRA bullshit, I'm going to point out that this happened in a gun-free zone. ~Umpqua CC Yes, the gunman broke multiple laws before the first shot was fired. He was virtually guaranteed that nobody had good means to stop him in that lecture hall. He was free to question the victims on their religious views (as I'm seeing reported) at his leisure. Thats a terrible terrible argument, oh it was a gun free zone ? Oh my those signs and pieces of paper saying couldnt do anything to stop him. Gaaiz there is no solution.. shit happens.. sorry. What a joke. A law saying guns are prohibited is not a regulation against people actually being able to access guns. No one is saying moderate control will even go on to completely stop things like this from happening, but atleast it will make it harder. And the evidence suggests that making it harder (but not unreasonably so) to get guns works. So I dont see how you can simply say doing nothing and just putting your hands up and saying "it was unavoidable" is a valid arguement. Would people have accepted that after the Boston Bombings ? There is no legitimate even close to fool proof way to stop people from doing the kind of thing that happened then. Yet we have the NSA taking every bit of information on people they possibly can fundamentally disrupting our rights, to make sure that doesnt happen. With zero evidence to suggest that it even works. The priorities are totally off... Its amazing that the most visible line in the sand is not your privacy but deadly weapons when it comes to constitutional rights.. facepalm... | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On October 02 2015 16:52 Rebs wrote: Thats a terrible terrible argument, oh it was a gun free zone ? Oh my those signs and pieces of paper saying couldnt do anything to stop him. Gaaiz there is no solution.. shit happens.. sorry. What a joke. A law saying guns are prohibited is not a regulation against people actually being able to access guns. No one is saying moderate control will even go on to completely stop things like this from happening, but atleast it will make it harder. And the evidence suggests that making it harder (but not unreasonably so) to get guns works. So I dont see how you can simply say doing nothing and just putting your hands up and saying "it was unavoidable" is a valid arguement. Current evidence suggests that gun control made it easier for the killer to do his work. Not harder. Literally nothing is known about the killer at the moment other than his victims were disarmed by the university before the incident. The gun-free zone worked as intended; legal owners couldn't defend themselves. This was a completely avoidable incident. | ||
|
ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
*gun control = nation wide limited access to guns which is actually enforced; prohibiting guns in a small area or building while everyone can easily buy a gun just a few meters outside of that area and then walk into that area is not gun control, that is a bad joke and a sign of sardistic state laws | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On October 02 2015 17:09 ACrow wrote: Sorry, but this argument is complete bullshit. Every statistic, every empirical evidence in other countries, points to gun control* reducing violent deaths (by a lot) - yet people still believe the nonsense the NRA and arms lobby spouts to sell guns? Ridiculous. *gun control = nation wide limited access to guns which is actually enforced; prohibiting guns in a small area or building while everyone can easily buy a gun just a few meters outside of that area and then walk into that area is not gun control, that is a bad joke and a sign of sardistic state laws This is quite true, if you believe America is most similar to Europe and Asia, completely discount defensive gun use, and fail to mention historical trends before gun restriction in Europe and Asia. I, for one, would love to know why homicide rates were higher in the UK the decade after the gun ban in the 1990s, rather than lower (and why they declined afterwards). On the other hand, if you believe that America is most similar to America, you have some explaining to do as to why Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina aren't paradises like the relatively gun-liberal Canada. Or why 50,000-2.5 million defensive gun uses per year* shouldn't count. *The range is huge because nobody has good statistics on defensive gun use. | ||
|
Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 02 2015 16:59 acker wrote: Current evidence suggests that gun control made it easier for the killer to do his work. Not harder. Literally nothing is known about the killer at the moment other than his victims were disarmed by the university before the incident. The gun-free zone worked as intended; legal owners couldn't defend themselves. This was a completely avoidable incident. I see so the solution is to have people becoming more skilled in quick draws ala the wild west so everyone can protect themselves. My bad, I apologize for not seeing the wisdom there. I will avoid discussing this further with you. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On October 02 2015 17:37 Rebs wrote: I see so the solution is to have people becoming more skilled in quick draws ala the wild west so everyone can protect themselves. My bad, I apologize for not seeing the wisdom there. I will avoid discussing this further with you. Apparently the shooter had enough time to question a room full of people about their religious affiliations. Likewise, it took the police eight minutes to arrive and stop the murders. I don't think drawing quickly was the issue here. The issue appears to be that the university made it illegal to legally have a gun in the first place. | ||
| ||
