US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2259

On September 02 2015 06:46 Buckyman wrote:


If it ever gets to the point where literally nobody is issuing marriage licenses then we'd need to redesign the whole marriage process. But we aren't there, so the situation is only moderately messy. And I don't think we'll ever be there in any society where gay people want to marry.

On September 02 2015 07:28 heliusx wrote:
Hire someone else to do it? Fuck that, the taxpayer is paying this woman to do a job. She can do it herself, quit, or get charged with a crime.

In a resolution that could have wide effects, California's prison system has agreed to change how it handles solitary confinement — and to review the cases of nearly 3,000 prisoners who are currently in solitary. The changes are part of the terms of a newly settled class-action lawsuit.

As part of the settlement, the state is agreeing to a central demand of the plaintiffs: to stop placing inmates in solitary confinement solely because of a gang affiliation.

"Lawyers for the prisoners say more than 1,500 people could be moved out of solitary," NPR's Carrie Johnson reports.

Here's more from a story Carrie filed for our Newscast unit:

"Prisoners held in long-term solitary confinement filed the class action lawsuit three years ago.

"Hundreds of inmates said they had been held in isolation for 5 or 10 years or more, with no chance to challenge their prison conditions. They argued that treatment violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"Prison officials say they will create a new high security unit for serious rule breakers, but even those inmates will have some interaction with others.

"A union that represents corrections officers objects to the settlement and says it could increase violence behind bars."

Advocates for prison reform say the changes could become part of a template for other states. California has one of the country's oldest and largest isolation units in the country, at Pelican Bay State Prison in the state's north.

In 2013, the prison was the origin point for a hunger strike that was believed to have been orchestrated by the leaders of four rival gangs. One of the men had been in solitary for more than 20 years.

On September 02 2015 05:07 Buckyman wrote:


The real issue regarding refusing marriage licenses to same-sex couples is that the marriage license is considered blasphemous* by major religions. Do the clerks have the right, under either freedom of speech or freedom of religion, to refuse to certify a statement that their religion considers blasphemous? Or is that trumped by the couples' right to marry without undue inconvenience?


*The definition of blasphemy is incosistent between cultural groups; I use it here to mean 'insulting or disrespectful to (a) god'. I'm not talking about heresy, which would simply be in contradiction to the religion's teachings.

On September 02 2015 05:23 Buckyman wrote:
Hmm... then I'd like to have your evaluation of a couple of other, hypothetical circumstances:
1) A state education agency requires all science teachers to tell their class that there is no God in the first lesson of each year. Some teachers refuse to do so.
2) A postal-system worker refuses to print the initial run of stamps with an image of Prophet Muhammad on them. When the stamps eventually do get printed, many post office employees refuse to sell them.

The Iranian nuclear deal is poised to clear remaining political hurdles in Washington after key Senate Democrats indicated there was now enough support in Congress for Barack Obama to withstand any Republican-led effort to block it.

Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, regarded as a critical swing vote, became the 32nd Democrat to declare his support on Tuesday for the deal, which will ease sanctions on Iran in exchange for steps aimed at preventing it from developing a nuclear weapon.

“I believe that this is better for our security and better for Israel’s security, without a doubt, short term and long term,” Casey said in an interview with the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Casey’s decision to endorse the agreement came against the backdrop of roughly $1.3m in advertising on Philadelphia’s television networks this summer alone, from groups on both sides of the debate – but with time booked by critics dwarfing that of proponents of the deal.

Coming out for the deal, reached in July by Iran and six world powers, was “one of the most difficult decisions of my public career”, Casey said.

Senator Chris Coons of Delaware also declared his support for the deal in a speech on Tuesday and in an interview with the Washington Post.

“I will support this agreement and vote against any measures to disapprove of it in Congress,” concluded Coons after providing a lengthy list of his remaining concerns about the deal.

On September 02 2015 08:57 Yoav wrote:If you're a Nietzschite atheist, I wouldn't recommend getting a job in the criminal justice system.

On September 02 2015 02:10 farvacola wrote:
She almost certainly cannot be fired, but once the contempt proceedings get underway, the overseeing judge will likely force her to quit via the nature of the sanctions levied against her.

On September 02 2015 11:04 xDaunt wrote:

Why can't she be fired? She is completely derelict in her duties. Unless there is some screwball collective bargaining agreement in place that protects her, she is toast. She can't claim religious discrimination.

On September 02 2015 08:57 Yoav wrote:


Blasphemy is insulting God, yes. Nobody's definition covers gay sex under blasphemy. Some think of it as a moral wrong (many evangelical Christians), others as a ritual prohibition (some Jewish sects), others as not a big deal (atheists), and others as a way to glorify God and enjoy the goodness of creation, with no distinction against heterosexual intercourse (mainline Protestants).


1) This is a violation of the establishment clause, and would be overturned in court
2) This would just be really stupid and needlessly insulting to lots of folks.

But seriously, in a free society, there are always gonna be government services that various people can't provide based on their religious beliefs. You don't see Quakers demanding to serve in front-line military units without being ordered to shoot at people. You probably shouldn't be a vegetarian Buddhist if you are a USDA official supervising proper slaughtering. If you're a Nietzschite atheist, I wouldn't recommend getting a job in the criminal justice system.

And now county clerks shouldn't be against gay marriage to the extent that they won't hand out licenses. Just like traditionalist Catholics probably already shouldn't have been giving them out if they objected to marriage between divorced/remarried folks.

On September 02 2015 08:57 Yoav wrote:
Blasphemy is insulting God, yes. Nobody's definition covers gay sex under blasphemy.

On September 02 2015 12:04 IgnE wrote:
Can we start talking about Kanye West for President in 2020?

On September 02 2015 12:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:

Thank Trump for showing everyone how personal showmanship is all that matters in the elections race.

On September 02 2015 11:19 OuchyDathurts wrote:
If you throw her in jail isn't she out of a job by default?

Figuring out what the public really thinks isn't always an exact science, as anyone who's seen two polls touting completely contradictory results can affirm.

One reason for that: most Americans, regardless of their political views, don't have a solid opinion about every single issue of the day, particularly when it concerns a complicated or obscure topic. People tend, reasonably, to rely on partisan cues -- if a politician they support is in favor of a bill, they're likely to think it's a good idea, or vice versa.

As a classic case in point, Republicans are more likely to oppose repealing the 1975 Public Affairs Act -- which doesn't actually exist -- when they're told that President Barack Obama wants to do so, while Democrats object when they're told it's a Republican proposal. But even when it comes to real issues, reactions to polls can vary greatly, depending on the wording.

How much can namedropping a politician matter? Conveniently, Republican front-runner Donald Trump shares a couple of policy positions with Obama and other leading Democrats. In a new HuffPost/YouGov poll, we randomly assigned one half of the 1,000 Americans surveyed to say whether they agreed with positions Trump held. The rest were asked whether they agreed with positions held by Obama, Secretary of State John Kerry or current Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. The trick: the positions were actually the same.

Yet respondents' reactions were decidedly different. Hearing that Trump supported a certain policy was enough to cause Democrats to reconsider ideas they'd otherwise support, and for Republicans to endorse positions they'd usually avoid.

Still, associating a particular politician with a certain position wasn't enough for people to abandon their most deeply held convictions. Protecting Social Security, for instance, is an overwhelmingly popular idea, whether it's being proposed by Clinton or by Trump.

On September 02 2015 07:30 OuchyDathurts wrote:


The situation shouldn't be messy at all. The situation is if you and another consenting adult want to get married you walk in and get a license. It should be the most cut and dry thing in the world. I want to get married, you give me my license and say have a good day, I walk out the door, done.

On September 02 2015 13:07 Wegandi wrote:


Marriage as a license bequeathed by the State is a ludicrous idea to begin with, and has only been common in modern times. The situation ought to be, that if anyone and any parties wish to partake in the arrangement called Marriage, and all its attendant agreements (PoA, Next of Kin, property distributions, joint accounts, etc.) , all one should have to do is write up the contract and have a notary bear witness. Why do you define marriage arrangements as only between 2 people? This is why I always laugh at 'progressives' who proclaim themselves as patron saints of 'rights' or 'equality'. Still discriminating against the polyamorous.