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On July 11 2015 15:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think, even if the media or other candidates bring up the fact that he's gone bankrupt/ lost money in the past, all he needs to do is say "Bottom line, look at my net worth: billions of dollars. Now go run along while I take my private, jewel-encrusted, 24 karat gold jet to fly to your house and fuck your mom. It's time for Daddy Trump to post his name on another trophy." gg no re.
I feel like the bankruptcy argument is really silly because it is considered a normal part of investing. Sometimes a company will be shitty. It happens. As you said, at the end of the day, he's got billions. People trying to paint him as a shitty investor just sound ignorant.
On July 11 2015 15:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think, even if the media or other candidates bring up the fact that he's gone bankrupt/ lost money in the past, all he needs to do is say "Bottom line, look at my net worth: billions of dollars. Now go run along while I take my private, jewel-encrusted, 24 karat gold jet to fly to your house and fuck your mom. It's time for Daddy Trump to post his name on another trophy." gg no re.
I feel like the bankruptcy argument is really silly because it is considered a normal part of investing. Sometimes a company will be shitty. It happens. As you said, at the end of the day, he's got billions. People trying to paint him as a shitty investor just sound ignorant.
Agreed. The other candidates need to beat Trump at politics, not at business. If they make the mistake of trying to out-business Trump on his own turf instead of forcing him to play political hands, then they're just burying themselves.
The bankruptcies IMO are almost 100% irrelevant. If you start/get involved in loads of different business ventures, inevitably, some of those ventures will fail. If laws in the US stated that all investors in a business were to be held personally liable for all of the outstanding debt of that business at bankruptcy, very few people would start businesses in the first place and the US would be worse off. I don't know a ton about operating businesses but I would guess most debt belonged to the businesses themselves, of which Trump owned a certain amount; this does not mean that personally, Trump was in debt.
That is to say (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I can start a business, then when the business asks the bank for a loan for $1,000,000, if the business can't pay the debt, I do not personally have to pay the money bank, the business does. This is good for a lot of reasons.
It's not like Trump is really electable anyway. He says dumb things too often. Attack the positions, not the man (and regarding the bankruptcies the attack on the man are silly anyway).
By the way, I'm no real estate mogul but my father used to rent out >10 properties and my uncle rents out some too, though I'm not sure how many. If you have some other guy managing your properties for you (as in, you're not the one nagging people for rent, maintaining the property, etc.), it's pretty much one of the easiest businesses to make money in. Plus, Trump was born into the business and was already worth a ton of money before he had earned any appreciable amount himself. I certainly am not a billionaire, and I probably will never be one, but in my opinion Trump's high net worth doesn't really indicate to me that he's some master businessman. It doesn't take a smart man born into his position to do just as well as he did, or better.
What he really is good at is cultivating and maintaining his personal brand. That's his true talent. This presidential campaign is just a means to increase that value.
On July 11 2015 16:26 Chocolate wrote: The bankruptcies IMO are almost 100% irrelevant. If you start/get involved in loads of different business ventures, inevitably, some of those ventures will fail. If laws in the US stated that all investors in a business were to be held personally liable for all of the outstanding debt of that business at bankruptcy, very few people would start businesses in the first place and the US would be worse off. I don't know a ton about operating businesses but I would guess most debt belonged to the businesses themselves, of which Trump owned a certain amount; this does not mean that personally, Trump was in debt.
That is to say (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I can start a business, then when the business asks the bank for a loan for $1,000,000, if the business can't pay the debt, I do not personally have to pay the money bank, the business does. This is good for a lot of reasons.
It's not like Trump is really electable anyway. He says dumb things too often. Attack the positions, not the man (and regarding the bankruptcies the attack on the man are silly anyway).
By the way, I'm no real estate mogul but my father used to rent out >10 properties and my uncle rents out some too, though I'm not sure how many. If you have some other guy managing your properties for you (as in, you're not the one nagging people for rent, maintaining the property, etc.), it's pretty much one of the easiest businesses to make money in. Plus, Trump was born into the business and was already worth a ton of money before he had earned any appreciable amount himself. I certainly am not a billionaire, and I probably will never be one, but in my opinion Trump's high net worth doesn't really indicate to me that he's some master businessman. It doesn't take a smart man born into his position to do just as well as he did, or better.
What he really is good at is cultivating and maintaining his personal brand. That's his true talent. This presidential campaign is just a means to increase that value.
I think people underestimate how badly he wants to stamp his name on the White House... literally.
No but seriously, if he gets his financials in/Fox goes back to what the candidates first thought the rules were he is taking this as far as he can go.
On July 11 2015 15:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think, even if the media or other candidates bring up the fact that he's gone bankrupt/ lost money in the past, all he needs to do is say "Bottom line, look at my net worth: billions of dollars. Now go run along while I take my private, jewel-encrusted, 24 karat gold jet to fly to your house and fuck your mom. It's time for Daddy Trump to post his name on another trophy." gg no re.
I feel like the bankruptcy argument is really silly because it is considered a normal part of investing. Sometimes a company will be shitty. It happens. As you said, at the end of the day, he's got billions. People trying to paint him as a shitty investor just sound ignorant.
I dunno, does he actually have more money now than if he'd just invested the money he inherited into index funds and spent the past forty years jerking off? Probably not.
Just to address the bankruptcy stuff: pointing at Trump's past involvement with corporate bankruptcy as an indicator of financial ineptitude might play with people who don't know how bankruptcy works, but to those who do, it's pretty clear the man knows money. Money, not politics.
Edit: Failed to see that Chocolate pretty much nailed it
real estate and real estate in nyc in particular isn't really a reflection of intelligence. it's more about knowing the right people and how the system works. rent seeking leeches really
Actually, he was on the brink of personal bankruptcy (iirc, he had 1B in personal debt and his businesses had 4B and neither entity was able to make a loan payment) but he managed to negotiate something that worked instead of declaring bankruptcy.
So I guess you could spin that as testament to his negotiating skills.
But he made the vast majority of his market riding the real estate bubble in the most expensive markets in the US. I wouldn't rate his business acumen much higher than the average lottery winners honestly. He just had the right people and was at the right place at the right time.
Also, the CEO of my company has gone bankrupt zero times and build several billion dollar companies from the ground. He's also not a complete dickwad. He doesn't have a ridiculous amount of raw intelligence or anything, but he knows how to make things happen. I'd vote for him over Trump in a heartbeat.
All Trump has to say if a politician brings up his bankruptcy is "politicians have made the country accumulate 18 dollars trillion in debt. If government was a business it would be out of business." or something along those lines.
On July 12 2015 00:06 whatisthisasheep wrote: All Trump has to say if a politician brings up his bankruptcy is "politicians have made the country accumulate 18 dollars trillion in debt. If government was a business it would be out of business."
And if government were a bird it'd technically be a dinosaur? Checkmate, young earthers.
Government borrowing is not the same thing as business borrowing.
On July 12 2015 00:06 whatisthisasheep wrote: All Trump has to say if a politician brings up his bankruptcy is "politicians have made the country accumulate 18 dollars trillion in debt. If government was a business it would be out of business."
And if government were a bird it'd technically be a dinosaur? Checkmate, young earthers.
Government borrowing is not the same thing as business borrowing.
Yeah but most people don't know the nuances nor do they care; what everyone *does* recognize is that we're X trillion dollars in debt (regardless of who caused it) and people want a candidate who knows how to make money. Trump knows how to make money. Even if it's two entirely different worlds of business vs. politics, people are going to look at the fact that he's rich and powerful and can run on a pro-business = pro-economy platform and probably get away with the false comparison.
So I think you're right, but I also think you're smarter than the average layman.
I dont understand the concept of why people vote for a president who they like or can relate to. I don't want to feel like I could be able to relate to the most powerful person in America. I would rather have an Asshole as president than a guy I feel like I could have a beer with.
I give Trump props on raising such well grounded, successful, down to earth kids when they were surrounded by luxury. They easily could have went full Hilton or Kardashian. I don't really understand how Trump managed to stop them from becoming socialites only famous because of their daddys money.
On a another note, I just saw the movie Self/Less and the majority of Ben Kingsley screentime is spent in Trumps Penthouse in Trump Tower. He must have got a paycheck for allowing them to use it.
On July 12 2015 00:39 whatisthisasheep wrote: I dont understand the concept of why people vote for a president who they like or can relate to. I don't want to feel like I could be able to relate to the most powerful person in America. I would rather have an Asshole as president than a guy I feel like I could have a beer with.
I think the counterargument to that is that many people want a president who can relate to the American public and understand the mindset and daily grind and problems that average Americans go through. They don't want a president who's out-of-touch.
That was Palin's VP platform- the "soccer mom" persona. The only problem is, she ended up having more of a "soccer ball" persona. Brainless and kicked around for fun.
On July 12 2015 00:06 whatisthisasheep wrote: All Trump has to say if a politician brings up his bankruptcy is "politicians have made the country accumulate 18 dollars trillion in debt. If government was a business it would be out of business."
And if government were a bird it'd technically be a dinosaur? Checkmate, young earthers.
Government borrowing is not the same thing as business borrowing.
Indeed, in business, when you borrow you try to invest it in something that pays you more than the loan. In government you rely on a constantly expanding economy independent of what you took loans out on.
Trump take a page from the Liberal handbook and use the family members of victims who were killed by illegal aliens to drive his point home about immigration in Arizona today.
David Letterman just came out of retirement to make a Top 10 list about Trump with Steve Martin and Martin Short.
On July 12 2015 00:06 whatisthisasheep wrote: All Trump has to say if a politician brings up his bankruptcy is "politicians have made the country accumulate 18 dollars trillion in debt. If government was a business it would be out of business." or something along those lines.
Except the government is able to service their debt, Trump wasn't. He had to pull a Greece and negotiate new terms.
The point of the bankruptcies are that he managed to bankrupt casinos (that's extremely hard, takes atrocious management and rampant corruption) and he was in a management position for at least 2 of 3 (the third one he claims they were making bad decisions after he left the board).
That said, no one is going to hurt him with it. He seems extremely confident he will get his financials out on time so he can be in the debates.
EPT
