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I get that this is from The Onion (satire), but it's remarkably on point with some of the excuses made by conservative politicians:
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”
~ http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131
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On June 20 2015 22:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +A South Carolina state representative says he plans to sponsor legislation in the next session to take down the Confederate flag that flies in front of the state Capitol.
“I had a friend die Wednesday night for no reason other than he was a black man,” GOP State Rep. Norman “Doug” Brannon told MSNBC’s Chris Hayes on Friday. “Sen. Pinckney was an incredible human being. I don’t want to talk politics but I’m going to introduce the bill for that reason.”
“I will pre-file that bill in December before we go back into session,” he added.
The flag cannot be taken down from the statehouse grounds without a change to state law, since it is protected by the 2000 South Carolina Heritage Act.
NAACP President Cornell Brooks also called Friday for the flag to be removed. “We cannot have the Confederate flag waving in the state capital,” he said in a press conference. “Some will assert that the Confederate flag is merely a symbol of years gone by, a symbol of heritage and not hate. But when we see that symbol lifted up as an emblem of hate, as a tool of hate, as an inspiration for hate, as an inspiration for violence, that symbol has to come down.”
President Barack Obama thinks the flag belongs in a museum, White House spokesman Eric Schultz told reporters. Source
The persistence of this symbol is one of the most baffling things to me about this country. Heck, the general pretension that there was even a smidgen of moral ambiguity about the entire thing. The fact we talk about a war where one side was the "North" or "Union." No, the combatants were the Confederacy and the United States of America. It was a war between America and some racist malcontents. It was a brutal war, and the Confederacy was a brutal dictatorship that killed hundreds of thousands of my countrymen to keep millions more enslaved. Fuck those guys and anyone who associates with them. It's the closest we have to a Nazi past (and if they survived, which side of WWII do you think they would have been on?); they're lucky we let the damn things be used at all, by anyone, anywhere. The idea that a governmental body would endorse such a thing, even implicitly, is beyond the pale.
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The fact that flag is flown at any government building is despicable. Anyone with the image of that flag on anything is instantly written off as having nothing of value to contribute on any subject. Some people will claim "It's not racist" like some people will go with the old "The swastika is actually a Hindi symbol for good luck!". That's a sick factoid you learned in 7th grade from that weird kid in school everyone kept away from but you're a fucking idiot. That symbol is hatred and it is only hatred, it means nothing else anymore.
The confederate flag, just like the swastika, have no place in this world anymore. Take that shit down now.
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On June 21 2015 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I get that this is from The Onion (satire), but it's remarkably on point with some of the excuses made by conservative politicians: Show nested quote +‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.” ~ http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131
Now when onion satire strikes you as particularly on-point, maybe it's time you question how much of your own propaganda you're swallowing whole.
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Dunno, it is kind of a valid point. Of course it doesn't fit your conservative worldview and must thus be wrong.
Why you would not aspire to reach the same standards of not being shot at as other developed nations is beyond me, but hey, i guess that is american exceptionalism at work.
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On June 21 2015 08:37 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2015 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I get that this is from The Onion (satire), but it's remarkably on point with some of the excuses made by conservative politicians: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.” ~ http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131 Now when onion satire strikes you as particularly on-point, maybe it's time you question how much of your own propaganda you're swallowing whole.
Isn't the point of satire to parody reality? It's funny sad because it's true.
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On June 21 2015 08:37 Danglars wrote:
Now when onion satire strikes you as particularly on-point, maybe it's time you question how much of your own propaganda you're swallowing whole.
Considering the Onion has been mistaken for a serious news article at least 3 or 4 times, that's not fair at all. XD
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On June 21 2015 08:37 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2015 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I get that this is from The Onion (satire), but it's remarkably on point with some of the excuses made by conservative politicians: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.” ~ http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131 Now when onion satire strikes you as particularly on-point, maybe it's time you question how much of your own propaganda you're swallowing whole.
That article has some interesting stat lines.
"a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations"
"the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years"
Do you dispute those stats, or are you just going to shoot the messenger?
You're the guy that claimed Germany leads the world in school shootings (you think).
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On June 21 2015 08:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2015 08:37 Danglars wrote:On June 21 2015 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I get that this is from The Onion (satire), but it's remarkably on point with some of the excuses made by conservative politicians: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.” ~ http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131 Now when onion satire strikes you as particularly on-point, maybe it's time you question how much of your own propaganda you're swallowing whole. Isn't the point of satire to parody reality? It's funny sad because it's true.
That is indeed generally the point of satire. The onion does venture into absurdity sometimes but they're pretty on point with the social commentary.
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On June 21 2015 09:00 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2015 08:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 21 2015 08:37 Danglars wrote:On June 21 2015 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I get that this is from The Onion (satire), but it's remarkably on point with some of the excuses made by conservative politicians: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.” ~ http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131 Now when onion satire strikes you as particularly on-point, maybe it's time you question how much of your own propaganda you're swallowing whole. Isn't the point of satire to parody reality? It's funny sad because it's true. That is indeed generally the point of satire. The onion does venture into absurdity sometimes but they're pretty on point with the social commentary.
Agreed.
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Yup. It's only 6 times more likely... than Luxemburg, which is quite likely to be a statistical fluke, given the size of Luxemburg. So if we go to the first decently sized first-world country, it´s 10 times. Now THAT is a statistic to be proud of!
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On June 21 2015 08:52 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2015 08:37 Danglars wrote:
Now when onion satire strikes you as particularly on-point, maybe it's time you question how much of your own propaganda you're swallowing whole. Considering the Onion has been mistaken for a serious news article at least 3 or 4 times, that's not fair at all. XD
That just means your knowledge of thing being mocked is sub-par. If you mistake a parody for reality, then in most cases it means all you know is the parody.
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On June 21 2015 08:21 OuchyDathurts wrote:
The fact that flag is flown at any government building is despicable. Anyone with the image of that flag on anything is instantly written off as having nothing of value to contribute on any subject. Some people will claim "It's not racist" like some people will go with the old "The swastika is actually a Hindi symbol for good luck!". That's a sick factoid you learned in 7th grade from that weird kid in school everyone kept away from but you're a fucking idiot. That symbol is hatred and it is only hatred, it means nothing else anymore.
The confederate flag, just like the swastika, have no place in this world anymore. Take that shit down now.
Swastika is actually a bit of a different case. I wouldn't use it in the West, but I'm certainly not gonna stop East and South Asian Hindus and Buddhists from using it. That's a little different from the Confederate Battle Flag, which only ever meant one thing, and only comes from one context.
(To make a more exact parallel, there's no reason to ostracize people using one white star on blue field, even though that was briefly the actual Confederate National Flag)
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On June 21 2015 12:43 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2015 08:21 OuchyDathurts wrote:
The fact that flag is flown at any government building is despicable. Anyone with the image of that flag on anything is instantly written off as having nothing of value to contribute on any subject. Some people will claim "It's not racist" like some people will go with the old "The swastika is actually a Hindi symbol for good luck!". That's a sick factoid you learned in 7th grade from that weird kid in school everyone kept away from but you're a fucking idiot. That symbol is hatred and it is only hatred, it means nothing else anymore.
The confederate flag, just like the swastika, have no place in this world anymore. Take that shit down now. Swastika is actually a bit of a different case. I wouldn't use it in the West, but I'm certainly not gonna stop East and South Asian Hindus and Buddhists from using it. That's a little different from the Confederate Battle Flag, which only ever meant one thing, and only comes from one context. (To make a more exact parallel, there's no reason to ostracize people using one white star on blue field, even though that was briefly the actual Confederate National Flag)
I fly the Bonnie Blue as part of my family history. It was also the National Flag for The Republic of West Florida. I assume though you're going to call my other half of my heritage - my Cherokee side - racists as well (Got that flag flying as well). ᏣᎳᎩᎯ ᎠᏰᎵ
The 'Civil War' had a lot of issues that brought it about (and Civil War is a misnomer anyways, as the South wasn't trying to take DC and the North - it was an independence movement just like 1776). Was slavery a primary motivating factor for the elites in States like South Carolina, etc. Yes. Was it for the states that joined them after Lincoln conscripted on army? No. Little known fact amongst our 'Northern' brethren is that Robert E. Lee was against slavery, as was much of Virginia. So to say, that the war was entirely about slavery is devoid of fact.
It's also hilarious when someone calls the Confederacy a Dictatorship, when Lincoln suspending habeus corpus, conscripted an army invading fellow states, jailed northern dissidents, and pretty much ignored the Bill of Rights. Hey, don't it take it from me:
http://www.cherokee.org/AboutTheNation/History/Events/CherokeeDeclarationofCauses(October28,1861).aspx
But in the Northern States the Cherokee people saw with alarm a violated Constitution, all civil liberty put in peril, and all the rules of civilized warfare and the dictates of common humanity and decency unhesitatingly disregarded. In States which still adhered to the Union a military despotism has displaced the civil power and the laws became silent amid arms. Free speech and almost free thought became a crime. The right to the writ of habeas corpus, guaranteed by the Constitution, disappeared at the nod of a Secretary of State or a general of the lowest grade. The mandate of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was set at naught by the military power, and this outrage on common right approved by a President sworn to support the Constitution. War on the largest scale was waged, and the immense bodies of troops called into the field in the absence of any law warranting it under the pretense of suppressing unlawful combination of men.
The humanities of war, which even barbarians respect, were no longer thought worthy to be observed. Foreign mercenaries and the scum of cities and the inmates of prisons were enlisted and organized into regiments and brigades and sent into Southern States to aid in subjugating a people struggling for freedom, to burn, to plunder, and to commit the basest of outrages on women; while the heels of armed tyranny trod upon the necks of Maryland and Missouri, and men of the highest character and position were incarcerated upon suspicion and without process of law in jails, in forts, and in prison-ships, and even women were imprisoned by the arbitrary order of a President and Cabinet ministers; while the press ceased to be free, the publication of newspapers was suspended and their issues seized and destroyed; the officers and men taken prisoners in battle were allowed to remain in captivity by the refusal of their Government to consent to an exchange of prisoners; as they had left their dead on more than one field of battle that had witnessed their defeat to be buried and their wounded to be cared for by Southern hands.
Anyways, just some history that doesn't get taught by the Victors in their Government Schools.
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Lordy, the Lincoln haters are always hilarious. I don't know what it is about radical libertarians and the Civil War, but it's always a hoot to read.
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On June 21 2015 18:43 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2015 12:43 Yoav wrote:On June 21 2015 08:21 OuchyDathurts wrote:
The fact that flag is flown at any government building is despicable. Anyone with the image of that flag on anything is instantly written off as having nothing of value to contribute on any subject. Some people will claim "It's not racist" like some people will go with the old "The swastika is actually a Hindi symbol for good luck!". That's a sick factoid you learned in 7th grade from that weird kid in school everyone kept away from but you're a fucking idiot. That symbol is hatred and it is only hatred, it means nothing else anymore.
The confederate flag, just like the swastika, have no place in this world anymore. Take that shit down now. Swastika is actually a bit of a different case. I wouldn't use it in the West, but I'm certainly not gonna stop East and South Asian Hindus and Buddhists from using it. That's a little different from the Confederate Battle Flag, which only ever meant one thing, and only comes from one context. (To make a more exact parallel, there's no reason to ostracize people using one white star on blue field, even though that was briefly the actual Confederate National Flag) I fly the Bonnie Blue as part of my family history. It was also the National Flag for The Republic of West Florida. I assume though you're going to call my other half of my heritage - my Cherokee side - racists as well (Got that flag flying as well). ᏣᎳᎩᎯ ᎠᏰᎵ
I actually said use of the Bonnie Blue should not be cause for ostracization. Also, to say that the cause of the Confederacy was racist is not to say that all people who were part of it were racists, and certainly not to say it makes its descendants necessarily racists. But if your question is whether I think you have racist ancestors: yeah, almost certainly. Me too. And people with no Southern White blood too. It's not an insult to you to say that. It's not a "yo momma" line. It's a statement of historical fact.
On June 21 2015 18:43 Wegandi wrote:The 'Civil War' had a lot of issues that brought it about (and Civil War is a misnomer anyways, as the South wasn't trying to take DC and the North - it was an independence movement just like 1776). Was slavery a primary motivating factor for the elites in States like South Carolina, etc. Yes. Was it for the states that joined them after Lincoln conscripted on army? No. Little known fact amongst our 'Northern' brethren is that Robert E. Lee was against slavery, as was much of Virginia. So to say, that the war was entirely about slavery is devoid of fact. It's also hilarious when someone calls the Confederacy a Dictatorship, when Lincoln suspending habeus corpus, conscripted an army invading fellow states, jailed northern dissidents, and pretty much ignored the Bill of Rights. Hey, don't it take it from me: http://www.cherokee.org/AboutTheNation/History/Events/CherokeeDeclarationofCauses(October28,1861).aspxShow nested quote +But in the Northern States the Cherokee people saw with alarm a violated Constitution, all civil liberty put in peril, and all the rules of civilized warfare and the dictates of common humanity and decency unhesitatingly disregarded. In States which still adhered to the Union a military despotism has displaced the civil power and the laws became silent amid arms. Free speech and almost free thought became a crime. The right to the writ of habeas corpus, guaranteed by the Constitution, disappeared at the nod of a Secretary of State or a general of the lowest grade. The mandate of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was set at naught by the military power, and this outrage on common right approved by a President sworn to support the Constitution. War on the largest scale was waged, and the immense bodies of troops called into the field in the absence of any law warranting it under the pretense of suppressing unlawful combination of men.
The humanities of war, which even barbarians respect, were no longer thought worthy to be observed. Foreign mercenaries and the scum of cities and the inmates of prisons were enlisted and organized into regiments and brigades and sent into Southern States to aid in subjugating a people struggling for freedom, to burn, to plunder, and to commit the basest of outrages on women; while the heels of armed tyranny trod upon the necks of Maryland and Missouri, and men of the highest character and position were incarcerated upon suspicion and without process of law in jails, in forts, and in prison-ships, and even women were imprisoned by the arbitrary order of a President and Cabinet ministers; while the press ceased to be free, the publication of newspapers was suspended and their issues seized and destroyed; the officers and men taken prisoners in battle were allowed to remain in captivity by the refusal of their Government to consent to an exchange of prisoners; as they had left their dead on more than one field of battle that had witnessed their defeat to be buried and their wounded to be cared for by Southern hands. Anyways, just some history that doesn't get taught by the Victors in their Government Schools.
Okay, for starters, my "Government" (actually private) school taught me a thoroughly tepid version of the Civil War that tried its best to be morally neutral on a war in which there is no moral equivalence to be found. My knowledge of the Civil War is largely based on extensive outside reading, from a variety of viewpoints. And there's no getting around the fact that the war was about slavery. Even for the Cherokee:
From that same document:
Whatever causes the Cherokee people may have had in the past, to complain of some of the Southern States, they cannot but feel that their interests and their destiny are inseparably connected with those of the South. The war now raging is a war of Northern cupidity and fanaticism against the institution of African servitude; against the commercial freedom of the South, and against the political freedom of the States, and its objects are to annihilate the sovereignty of those States and utterly change the nature of the General Government.
The Cherokee people and their neighbors were warned before the war commenced that the first object of the party which now holds the powers of government of the United States would be to annul the institution of slavery in the whole Indian country, and make it what they term free territory and after a time a free State.
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On June 21 2015 11:54 Introvert wrote:
That just means your knowledge of thing being mocked is sub-par. If you mistake a parody for reality, then in most cases it means all you know is the parody.
Yes, funny that it's usually the accused being mocked that are mistaking the Onion for the real thing then. 
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Southerners would be nazis if it wasn't for the civil war. Now I've heard it all.
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EPT
