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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 24 2012 06:11 awesomoecalypse wrote:No he didn't. Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend right before this happened, and he reported being followed by a strange man, on foot. Whatever happened after that, it is clear that Zimmerman got out of the truck to follow Trayvon, which directly contradicts what he told police.
Source? You are the first person I have claimed say he was so specific and mentioned someone on foot.
At any rate even if Trayvon could see him when Zimmerman got out of his truck that doesn't mean Zimmerman could see Trayvon and doesn't contradict Zimmerman's story.
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On March 24 2012 06:12 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Is that mugshot of Zimmerman from right after the incident? His face looks pretty good for being "hospitalized" if thats the case.
it could be from his arrest for suspected resisting arrest a few years prior.
but he was pacing back and forth right after the shooting, he didn't need to be hospitalized for sure. oftentimes they make you be taken to the hospital for an examination and then release you right after which is probably the extent of his hospitalization.
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On March 24 2012 06:13 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:52 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 05:50 cz wrote:
From what I can summarize from the witnesses, there are three people in total who witnessed it:
1) A man who says he saw Zimmerman on the ground being beaten by Zimmerman. Claims that Zimmerman was crying for help. This happened before the shooting (just a little bit).
2) Two roommates. They didn't see it but heard someone crying out, and the crying stopped after the gunshot. They say it was high-pitched crying.
The rest is conjecture from the witnesses, but that's apparently what they can say on the witness stand. there is another witness who saw zimmerman straddling martin right after the gunshot. but besides that yeah thats the summary. oh yeah the person who saw zimmerman on top was the person who lived in the house who martin was shot in front of. You're confused. The person you are referring to is one of the two roommates he mentions who did not see anything until after the shot was fired. Actually they were watching through the window before they came outside.
But they weren't watching anything until after the gun shot. She even says she had no idea Zimmerman was the shooter.
Please try to keep up.
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At any rate even if Trayvon could see him when Zimmerman got out of his truck that doesn't mean Zimmerman could see Trayvon and doesn't contradict Zimmerman's story.
Zimmerman was talking to him, Trayvon asked him why he kept following him. You can't follow somebody you can't see.
Regardless, Zimmerman clearly did not get out of the truck initially to check the street sign, which is what he told police.
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On March 24 2012 06:11 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:06 Defacer wrote:On March 24 2012 05:30 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:20 Defacer wrote:On March 24 2012 05:04 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:01 BillClinton wrote:
Do you really want to live in a place where whenever you feel threatened for whatever reason you (and others) pull your gun(s)?
Even if Martin was a dealer how can you argue it was good that he was killed, it will lead to more mutual suspicion and lower the inhibition level for aggression/crime. Do you really want to live in a place where if you are pinned on the ground being beaten in the head you are not allowed to use a firearm to save your life? You got it backwards, Zaqwe. Do you really want to live in a place where someone can follow you, pull a gun on you, and you're not allowed to attack in order to save your life? Despite some ambiguity, it's very, very clear that Zimmerman was a greater threat to Trayvon than the other way around. Trayon posed absolutely no threat until Zimmerman created a confrontation while armed. Zimmerman didn't pull a gun on him. If Trayvon was aware of the gun he wouldn't have left Zimmerman's hands free holding a gun to shoot him with. When Trayvon decided to attack Zimmerman he obviously was not aware of the pistol. You have no way of knowing whether or not Zimmerman pulled a gun first. Your entire argument has been based on your fantasy of how the altercation developed, and a single, inconclusive, eyewitness account. I just offered the idea that "Zimmerman pulled a gun first" as an entirely plausible scenario that would easily rationalize Trayvon attacking or fighting back. You literally don't know what you're talking about because you weren't there. And the fact that you dismiss a perfectly plausible scenario despite arguing based on personal speculation betrays your hypocrisy and bias. TLDR: you just got served. It's extremely implausible that Zimmerman pulled out a gun, Trayvon then attacked him and punched him in the face ignoring the gun and allowing Zimmerman to shoot him. That's just preposterous.
That's not preposterous at all. In fact, if Zimmerman had a gun pulled on him he may have tried to fight to keep Zimmerman from being able to shoot him.
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On March 24 2012 06:14 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:11 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 05:55 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 24 2012 05:52 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 05:50 cz wrote:
From what I can summarize from the witnesses, there are three people in total who witnessed it:
1) A man who says he saw Zimmerman on the ground being beaten by Zimmerman. Claims that Zimmerman was crying for help. This happened before the shooting (just a little bit).
2) Two roommates. They didn't see it but heard someone crying out, and the crying stopped after the gunshot. They say it was high-pitched crying.
The rest is conjecture from the witnesses, but that's apparently what they can say on the witness stand. there is another witness who saw zimmerman straddling martin right after the gunshot. but besides that yeah thats the summary. oh yeah the person who saw zimmerman on top was the person who lived in the house who martin was shot in front of. didnt she also say that it looked like he was trying to stop the bleeding or something to that effect? it could be that the kid was on top of him, he shot the kid and knocked him off and then he got on top to try to stop the bleeding because he realized he fucked up. i am just theorizing of course. all she said was he said to call the police, and that she assumed he couldn't be the shooter because the shooter would have ran. and that he disputed that there was any fight. She said that he had his hands on his back (zimmerman's on his own back). so he wasn't trying to stop bleeding. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anderson-cooper-interviews-witnesses-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/ she said: “One on each side, on his knees, with his hands on his back. I immediately thought, okay, obviously if it’s the shooter, he would have ran,” Cutcher detailed. “ I thought he’s holding the wound, helping the guy taking a pulse, making sure he’s okay. When she called to him three times, everything okay, what’s going on? Each time he looked back, didn’t say anything and then the third time he finally said, ‘just call the police.’”
pretty hard to hold someones wounds with your hands on your back.
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"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."
Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."
None of this matches Zimmerman's story of getting out to check a street sign and being ambushed from behind.
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On March 24 2012 05:44 k1mjee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 05:41 FREEloss_ca wrote:I had to stop watching. What a fool. Just because 99% of TL is liberal doesn't mean he's a fool. Sorry.
He's definitely a moron though. That's Fox for ya, hire bunch of tools.
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On March 24 2012 06:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:14 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 24 2012 06:11 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 05:55 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 24 2012 05:52 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 05:50 cz wrote:
From what I can summarize from the witnesses, there are three people in total who witnessed it:
1) A man who says he saw Zimmerman on the ground being beaten by Zimmerman. Claims that Zimmerman was crying for help. This happened before the shooting (just a little bit).
2) Two roommates. They didn't see it but heard someone crying out, and the crying stopped after the gunshot. They say it was high-pitched crying.
The rest is conjecture from the witnesses, but that's apparently what they can say on the witness stand. there is another witness who saw zimmerman straddling martin right after the gunshot. but besides that yeah thats the summary. oh yeah the person who saw zimmerman on top was the person who lived in the house who martin was shot in front of. didnt she also say that it looked like he was trying to stop the bleeding or something to that effect? it could be that the kid was on top of him, he shot the kid and knocked him off and then he got on top to try to stop the bleeding because he realized he fucked up. i am just theorizing of course. all she said was he said to call the police, and that she assumed he couldn't be the shooter because the shooter would have ran. and that he disputed that there was any fight. She said that he had his hands on his back (zimmerman's on his own back). so he wasn't trying to stop bleeding. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anderson-cooper-interviews-witnesses-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/ she said: “One on each side, on his knees, with his hands on his back. I immediately thought, okay, obviously if it’s the shooter, he would have ran,” Cutcher detailed. “ I thought he’s holding the wound, helping the guy taking a pulse, making sure he’s okay. When she called to him three times, everything okay, what’s going on? Each time he looked back, didn’t say anything and then the third time he finally said, ‘just call the police.’” pretty hard to hold someones wounds with your hands on your back.
lol. i only quoted what she said. if you think she is lying or confused, so be it.
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On March 24 2012 06:11 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:06 Defacer wrote:On March 24 2012 05:30 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:20 Defacer wrote:On March 24 2012 05:04 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:01 BillClinton wrote:
Do you really want to live in a place where whenever you feel threatened for whatever reason you (and others) pull your gun(s)?
Even if Martin was a dealer how can you argue it was good that he was killed, it will lead to more mutual suspicion and lower the inhibition level for aggression/crime. Do you really want to live in a place where if you are pinned on the ground being beaten in the head you are not allowed to use a firearm to save your life? You got it backwards, Zaqwe. Do you really want to live in a place where someone can follow you, pull a gun on you, and you're not allowed to attack in order to save your life? Despite some ambiguity, it's very, very clear that Zimmerman was a greater threat to Trayvon than the other way around. Trayon posed absolutely no threat until Zimmerman created a confrontation while armed. Zimmerman didn't pull a gun on him. If Trayvon was aware of the gun he wouldn't have left Zimmerman's hands free holding a gun to shoot him with. When Trayvon decided to attack Zimmerman he obviously was not aware of the pistol. You have no way of knowing whether or not Zimmerman pulled a gun first. Your entire argument has been based on your fantasy of how the altercation developed, and a single, inconclusive, eyewitness account. I just offered the idea that "Zimmerman pulled a gun first" as an entirely plausible scenario that would easily rationalize Trayvon attacking or fighting back. You literally don't know what you're talking about because you weren't there. And the fact that you dismiss a perfectly plausible scenario despite arguing based on personal speculation betrays your hypocrisy and bias. TLDR: you just got served. It's extremely implausible that Zimmerman pulled out a gun, Trayvon then attacked him and punched him in the face ignoring the gun and allowing Zimmerman to shoot him. That's just preposterous.
But if he did, you'd absolutely agree that Trayon was simply defending himself, no? Or else that would make you a hypocrite.
And it's not preposterous at all. You've obviously never been in a real fight. It's not a choreographed Jackie Chan movie where A leads to B leads to C. Neither Zimmerman or Trayon are MMA fighters with training on how to disarm someone. It's a chaotic mess.
Sigh, at least I know now that if I draw a gun on Zaqwe, he'll just stand there and let himself get shot.
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On March 24 2012 06:18 dAPhREAk wrote:
lol. i only quoted what she said. if you think she is lying or confused, so be it.
Yeah i know but she was definite about his hands being on his back. she said she only thought he was helping check a pulse or something. when you listen to her say it, she says it the same way someone would say something they now know is false. like "i thought you said i could have it". that kind of inflection is a bit hard to convey in writing.
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On March 24 2012 06:21 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:18 dAPhREAk wrote:
lol. i only quoted what she said. if you think she is lying or confused, so be it. Yeah i know but she was definite about his hands being on his back. she said she only thought he was helping check a pulse or something. when you listen to her say it, she says it the same way someone would say something they now know is false. like "i thought you said i could have it". that kind of inflection is a bit hard to convey in writing.
using "definite" with a witness statement is very dangerous.
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On March 24 2012 06:22 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:21 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 06:18 dAPhREAk wrote:
lol. i only quoted what she said. if you think she is lying or confused, so be it. Yeah i know but she was definite about his hands being on his back. she said she only thought he was helping check a pulse or something. when you listen to her say it, she says it the same way someone would say something they now know is false. like "i thought you said i could have it". that kind of inflection is a bit hard to convey in writing. using "definite" with a witness statement is very dangerous.
then she seemed much more sure about where his hands were than what he was doing. better? i was using definite in a literary sense not a legal one. she made a definite claim as to where his hands were, but speculation as to what he was doing.
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On March 24 2012 06:15 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:12 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Is that mugshot of Zimmerman from right after the incident? His face looks pretty good for being "hospitalized" if thats the case. it could be from his arrest for suspected resisting arrest a few years prior. but he was pacing back and forth right after the shooting, he didn't need to be hospitalized for sure. oftentimes they make you be taken to the hospital for an examination and then release you right after which is probably the extent of his hospitalization.
I cannot believe it if he had injuries, and police didn't document them with pictures, hard evidence. People need to be fired and not just the police cheif.
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On March 24 2012 06:20 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:11 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 06:06 Defacer wrote:On March 24 2012 05:30 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:20 Defacer wrote:On March 24 2012 05:04 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:01 BillClinton wrote:
Do you really want to live in a place where whenever you feel threatened for whatever reason you (and others) pull your gun(s)?
Even if Martin was a dealer how can you argue it was good that he was killed, it will lead to more mutual suspicion and lower the inhibition level for aggression/crime. Do you really want to live in a place where if you are pinned on the ground being beaten in the head you are not allowed to use a firearm to save your life? You got it backwards, Zaqwe. Do you really want to live in a place where someone can follow you, pull a gun on you, and you're not allowed to attack in order to save your life? Despite some ambiguity, it's very, very clear that Zimmerman was a greater threat to Trayvon than the other way around. Trayon posed absolutely no threat until Zimmerman created a confrontation while armed. Zimmerman didn't pull a gun on him. If Trayvon was aware of the gun he wouldn't have left Zimmerman's hands free holding a gun to shoot him with. When Trayvon decided to attack Zimmerman he obviously was not aware of the pistol. You have no way of knowing whether or not Zimmerman pulled a gun first. Your entire argument has been based on your fantasy of how the altercation developed, and a single, inconclusive, eyewitness account. I just offered the idea that "Zimmerman pulled a gun first" as an entirely plausible scenario that would easily rationalize Trayvon attacking or fighting back. You literally don't know what you're talking about because you weren't there. And the fact that you dismiss a perfectly plausible scenario despite arguing based on personal speculation betrays your hypocrisy and bias. TLDR: you just got served. It's extremely implausible that Zimmerman pulled out a gun, Trayvon then attacked him and punched him in the face ignoring the gun and allowing Zimmerman to shoot him. That's just preposterous. But if he did, you'd absolutely agree that Trayon was simply defending himself, no? Or else that would make you a hypocrite. And it's not preposterous at all. You've obviously never been in a real fight. It's not a choreographed Jackie Chan movie where A leads to B leads to C. Neither Zimmerman or Trayon are MMA fighters with training on how to disarm someone. It's a chaotic mess. Sigh, at least I know now that if I draw a gun on Zaqwe, he'll just stand there and let himself get shot.
It doesn't take any training to know that if you are fighting a guy who is holding a gun you struggle for the gun, not punch him in the face and leave his hand free, holding a gun, and allowing him to shoot you.
Really your scenario is just so detached from reality I don't know what to say that could bring you back to Earth. Why would you punch someone in the face who you know is holding a gun, ignoring the gun, and letting them shoot you?
There's no coherent logical reason to claim Zimmerman pulled out a gun until he was already on the ground being beaten in the head.
You're making stuff up, and you're not even trying to have your fabricated story make any sense.
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I cannot believe it if he had injuries, and police didn't document them with pictures, hard evidence. People need to be fired and not just the police cheif.
They also never got in touch with the last person he was talking to right before he died. You'd think having a shooting victim with a cell phone on him, showing he was on the phone until right before the shooting, would justify at least investigating. The police are either bigots or incompetents, and either way should lose their jobs over this.
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On March 24 2012 06:16 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:13 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 24 2012 06:03 Zaqwe wrote:On March 24 2012 05:52 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 05:50 cz wrote:
From what I can summarize from the witnesses, there are three people in total who witnessed it:
1) A man who says he saw Zimmerman on the ground being beaten by Zimmerman. Claims that Zimmerman was crying for help. This happened before the shooting (just a little bit).
2) Two roommates. They didn't see it but heard someone crying out, and the crying stopped after the gunshot. They say it was high-pitched crying.
The rest is conjecture from the witnesses, but that's apparently what they can say on the witness stand. there is another witness who saw zimmerman straddling martin right after the gunshot. but besides that yeah thats the summary. oh yeah the person who saw zimmerman on top was the person who lived in the house who martin was shot in front of. You're confused. The person you are referring to is one of the two roommates he mentions who did not see anything until after the shot was fired. Actually they were watching through the window before they came outside. But they weren't watching anything until after the gun shot. She even says she had no idea Zimmerman was the shooter. Please try to keep up.
You are the one that needs to keep up. You've consistently ignored many new pieces of evidence that surface and only keep reposting the old stuff we have already seen.
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On March 24 2012 06:24 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:15 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 06:12 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Is that mugshot of Zimmerman from right after the incident? His face looks pretty good for being "hospitalized" if thats the case. it could be from his arrest for suspected resisting arrest a few years prior. but he was pacing back and forth right after the shooting, he didn't need to be hospitalized for sure. oftentimes they make you be taken to the hospital for an examination and then release you right after which is probably the extent of his hospitalization. I cannot believe it if he had injuries, and police didn't document them with pictures, hard evidence. People need to be fired and not just the police cheif.
yeah the police messed up big time, you still have to investigate SYG claims, even if you aren't legally allowed to arrest people. and the chief wasn't fired, he stepped down temporarily though he will likely resign if misconduct is found within the police force. Another thing to note that has nothing to do with zimmerman. Sanford is a town where it's known around here to be "bad to be black" in. Specifically because of the police force. Not saying it mattered, but the police mishandled the situation gravely, and race could have played a role in their minds. (again not zimmerman)
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On March 24 2012 06:24 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 06:15 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 24 2012 06:12 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Is that mugshot of Zimmerman from right after the incident? His face looks pretty good for being "hospitalized" if thats the case. it could be from his arrest for suspected resisting arrest a few years prior. but he was pacing back and forth right after the shooting, he didn't need to be hospitalized for sure. oftentimes they make you be taken to the hospital for an examination and then release you right after which is probably the extent of his hospitalization. I cannot believe it if he had injuries, and police didn't document them with pictures, hard evidence. People need to be fired and not just the police cheif.
That's the real problem. They didn't investigate the crime scene or call in CSI (whatever the real version of that is), so all the ballistic evidence, the blood splatter, the fresh wound and powder patterns on Martin's body etc are all gone. No matter what happens, unless someone comes forward, Zimmerman will never be convicted and we'll never have hard evidence of what actually happened.
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You're making stuff up, and you're not even trying to have your fabricated story make any sense.
And you're ignoring that details of Zimmerman's story are directly contradicted by that of the last person Trayvon spoke to--which the police might have realized, had they arrested Zimmerman and conducted a thorough investigation, instead of just taking what he said at face value. This should absolutely go to trial.
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EPT
