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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 09:35 Takezou wrote:Ladder BM isn't. However, being stupid enough to use racist words (even if his intent wasn't racist) when he is supposedly a professional caster can be. Then add to it that he lied about it and used other professionals in his community to try and excuse his behavior makes it worse.
Was he doing it under his tag or in a professional casting role?
Being a dick isn't a reason for this circus of a thread.
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On March 09 2012 09:35 Dr.Sin wrote:
Its serious stuff, but this doesn't smell right. Is there any other way to confirm?
After I read this, I looked at the last screenshot again.. I dunno.. it doesn't really seem like him, but I haven't watched him a ton, nor his stream.. so I don't really know much about his personality.. seems crazy.
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On March 09 2012 09:35 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote:
After reading all the reddit threads and stuff.. I bid orb's career farewell.
Acting like a prepubescent pre-tween while hosting several community shows AND being under the EG tag doesn't seem wise to me.
You do not deserve to be in such a wonderful community. cy@
Noobs like you are why I bm people in laddergames when I own them
E fucken Z
User was warned for this post
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On March 09 2012 09:37 Loxley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 09 2012 09:23 Kich wrote:On March 09 2012 09:22 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 09 2012 09:16 sam!zdat wrote:On March 09 2012 09:12 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I'll even go as far as to quote IdrA here. So your go-to guy on the philosophy of language is idra? I happened to have found that quote when I hit the search button, and thought it was extremely appropriate for my stance on the matter, especially since this concerns Evil Geniuses. I suspect Orb will be getting fired for lying to EG management about this, but should they fire him for his use of offensive language in the past, in his private life, I certainly will find that very extreme, and completely two faced. That's all. Really, that quote from February 2007, 5 years ago, before Idra was even a member of Evil Geniuses. Super relevant. The quote from IdrA was to demonstrate the colloquial use of the term "faggot" which, frankly was relevant in 2007, and is relevant now. And now the colloquial use of 'nigger' and you got a case i think. Double standards, agreed on exhibit F, now the double ones on exhibit N and we'll dismiss the case :p But seriously, everybody knows by logic that different words have different meanings, different insults have different impact and as far as racial slurs go.. I don't think i've seen Idra (your example) ever using a racial slur. Could be wrong tho in which case there is a double standard present.
IdrA frequently tells people to kill themselves for playing a race/using a specific strategy, which in my opinion is just as bad as casual racism.
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While typing racist comments on stream is bad, what a lot of people here don't seem to get is that he also accused people pointing this out of slander. He lied, he manipulated and he only apologized when the evidence was overwhelming. Making a mistake is one thing, covering it up, and going to these extremes to do it, is another altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if he got fired. But hey, judging by this behavior he'll probably be president someday. 
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Oh no Orb bm'd!!
Call the presses!
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Some people keep saying he was doing this on his own 'personal' stream and in his free time which is true.. But 'personal' stream? Come on people.. With ~400-500 viewers it is not a personal stream, it is a stream for the community and he should've known better. I actually stopped watching his stream because he always BM'ed.
With that being said, I really don't care much about this drama. Orb has always been very BM on his stream, and it seems to me like people only brought it up now because he joined EG.
To hurt him? Maybe.. Because they were genuinly offended? Why bring it up AFTER he joins EG? Did the drama explode because more people just now learned about it and are offended? Most likely..
When he said those words on his stream he had no idea that he would eventually end up joining EG. Now those words come back and bite him in the ass. Had he owned up and admitted it straight away and promised not to do it again, I doubt this would have come so far.
Personally I don't really like him as a caster or player, but I can't help feeling bad for him.
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On March 09 2012 09:39 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:35 Takezou wrote:On March 09 2012 09:32 Dfgj wrote:
Ladder BM is news now? Ladder BM isn't. However, being stupid enough to use racist words (even if his intent wasn't racist) when he is supposedly a professional caster can be. Then add to it that he lied about it and used other professionals in his community to try and excuse his behavior makes it worse. Was he doing it under his tag or in a professional casting role? Being a dick isn't a reason for this circus of a thread.
He was not working while doing this, he was under his personal tag doing ladder.
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On March 09 2012 09:34 Shadow Sylph wrote:
I understand where a corporation like EG is coming from if they choose to no longer hire/use orb to represent them in particular casting situations but at the same time I think it's a really stupid of a community to get up in arms over this whole thing. A word is a word, it does not mean he is a racist and if he is a racist what he does in his own time is his thing. If he continues to cast well and be a powerful/useful analytic tool in the community then so what?
Get over it.
Also there's a lot to be said for the argument of Destiny. People have heard his statement on the use of the word in question here and how he doesn't give two shits what people think, it's just a word. So even if you have proof that orb has used the word, just because he raged and typed it out to someone versus saying it on stream doesn't mean anything. You still have no proof that orb is anymore a racist than Destiny is. Now if EG and other corporations simply just won't interact with orb because of this then that is their decision. But no one should be saying it's because he's a racist, it's because you don't want bad PR surrounding an obviously overblown shit storm that is based around a central idea that still has no proof. (Orb being racist)
Thank you, and good day sir.
I think the Destiny argument is a pretty poor one. I think the way he acts is more indicative of why he was cleaning carpets before his stream caught on. As much as you personally are not offended or think that something outside of an official casting gig is irrelevant, this stuff matters to some people and sponsors will never want to be associated with it.
You shouldn't see people who want to be taken seriously in any capacity spouting off this kind of stuff, there is no excuse for losing control of yourself.
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On March 09 2012 09:33 AntiGrav1ty wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:22 Azhrei16 wrote:
It's interesting how all of this turns up directly after he joins the EG Lair and starts working with them. I know my opinion will get ripped to shreds but seriously, in so many other countries, something like this wouldn't even warrant a second glance. Here in America, you have to watch literally every single word you say because people are thin-skinned fools and take things way too literally. I will also say people keep using certain words because they know it offends someone. You are wrong. Political correctness in public is taken very seriously in Germany and I doubt it's any diferent in other european countries. Basically the whole bm incident isnt that much of a deal though. He should have apologized and said he's gonna try to keep his temper in the future and nobody would have said anything. Even if he kept raging on his stream. The fact that he lied to his management, tried to cover it up and called all of this slander, attacking the people who posted and then wrote a useless apology when it all came out was just plain stupid. He got himself into this mess and for that he probably deservered the shitstorm thats goin on right now. On the subject of raging: I play Hon a lot and staying calm is often not an option. I rage a lot, i curse, i flame. Still I don't use racial expressions. Why would I? It doesn't improve the rage. Using racial expressions does mean something. I can just as well call someone an asshole.
I have heard though that most Europeans think that Americans overreact in terms of swear words in public or on TV. I can understand the political correctness though.
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What's funny here is that this is just a few excerpts of ladder rage. Nothing special.
What's even funnier is that reddit's flipping their shit over something trivial. What the hell are they going to do, kill orb? Throwing the n-word around a few times qualifies you to be a hot topic in reddit is what I learned from this. People rage and bm far worse than this on the ladder. I don't see reddit trying to fix the whole community and taking this to LO3 or some other community stream.
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@djWHEAT: I'm really embarrassed for those actively taking part in witch hunts for no reason other than to straight up cause harm to a single person.
@djWHEAT: You already hit someone square in the jaw... do you really have to kick them in the fucking nuts while they are down?
Word!
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On March 09 2012 09:34 Shadow Sylph wrote:
Also there's a lot to be said for the argument of Destiny. People have heard his statement on the use of the word in question here and how he doesn't give two shits what people think, it's just a word. So even if you have proof that orb has used the word, just because he raged and typed it out to someone versus saying it on stream doesn't mean anything. You still have no proof that orb is anymore a racist than Destiny is. Now if EG and other corporations simply just won't interact with orb because of this then that is their decision. But no one should be saying it's because he's a racist, it's because you don't want bad PR surrounding an obviously overblown shit storm that is based around a central idea that still has no proof. (Orb being racist)
Thank you, and good day sir.
you really think the core of this issue is whether or not orb/destiny is actually racist? How thick are you? How many fucking dolts are on TL these days? Are people misunderstanding because they too are just white pasty gaming nerds with singular views of the world spending all day rationalizing their immaturities?
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Why should we even give a shit... it's a word on the internet. Get over it.
Orb will obviously get lambasted for it at his new workplace, so what's done is done.
Orb probably should have kept his mouth shut and issued a single statement saying that he didn't think it was him saying it, but if it was, that he was sorry and that it wouldn't happen again.
I feel like the instant gratification defense on the internet just doesn't work... ever... it's like talking in a cop car while being arrested...
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5m djWHEAT @djWHEAT
You already hit someone square in the jaw... do you really have to kick them in the fucking nuts while they are down?
6m djWHEAT djWHEAT @djWHEAT
I'm really embarrassed for those actively taking part in witch hunts for no reason other than to straight up cause harm to a single person.
wtf? He's still defending him. Totally lost all respect for dj Heat.
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On March 09 2012 09:39 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:35 Takezou wrote:On March 09 2012 09:32 Dfgj wrote:
Ladder BM is news now? Ladder BM isn't. However, being stupid enough to use racist words (even if his intent wasn't racist) when he is supposedly a professional caster can be. Then add to it that he lied about it and used other professionals in his community to try and excuse his behavior makes it worse. Was he doing it under his tag or in a professional casting capacity?
He is a public figure in the community where he has chosen to make a living. You can argue if that is fair or not but if he doesn't realize that then that is yet another sign of him just not getting it.
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rofl these pics are great...
Orb you are the man, I like you more after seeing you being real. Ignore the haters Orb!
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On March 09 2012 09:34 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:31 Apex wrote:On March 09 2012 09:22 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 09:21 Apex wrote:
This is a pretty big witchunt going on here. Not to say orb's behavior is excusable but it should be handled between EG and him. No need to make a whole entire thread about it.
I mean, you see these kinds of insults so often in the gaming community and claiming that orb is racist because he says nigger is jumping to conclusions. Just because he uses the word does not mean he means it in racist terms. It's a stupid conclusion. But this is a moot point.
The main thing is he raged. Disappointing, certainly. To get all up in arms over when you see this often (especially when you have known ragers like Idra)? Overblown.
Riddle: What is the difference between a witch and a racist? Answer: Sometimes a person is actually a racist. By witchunt I would mean "overblown" controversy. I admit I'd have been better off picking a better word but my point still stands. This entire issue is getting out of hand. Just as you can say "You don't know Orb. He can be racist for all we know!", people can also argue the same thing and say he isn't racist with the same argument. Whether he is racist or not is a non-issue. Raging then trying to lie about it is the true issue. It is an issue, but that issue is better off handled between EG and him as I've said before. EG will do what it sees fit and that'll be that. Look, I understand where you're coming from, and I don't think the average person here is calling Orb a racist. But what is going to be his reason to change? Obviously its not going to come from within or he wouldn't have done this after signing with EG. The community is going to be the reason he changes because, as this thread demonstrates, we won't tolerate bigotry in our community. We just don't want to see that shit from our personalities. These people are role models for an entire generation of gamers. Lets show some stewardship of the profession and push it to the next level.
Do we actually know whether the most recent post WAS indeed Orb? Serious question.
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We never kick men when they are down, we just stomp them.
Well too bad I liked the ESV Korean weekly thing he did but oh well shit happens i guess.
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Our understanding of words develops from the contexts we hear these words used in. Orb's definition of "nigger" is probably only really understood by him. It's hard for us to call him a racist for it's use.
However, Orb does know what the word can mean to others. Unless he has grown up incredibly sheltered, he should know "nigger" can, and is, incredibly offensive in lots of contexts. However, Orb doesn't (or, at least didn't) care about being offensive to others, hurting others, or taking anger over losing a game too far. Because of that, I don't think he is fit to represent esports or have a major role in a community.
The idea that Orb doesn't care about the feelings of others and is selfish is compounded by the fact that he then tried to lie and cover up his offensive language. Again, he simply cares more about himself than others knowing the truth. That isn't someone I won't representing our community. His lies have a harmful impact on the community, esp. when discovered.
EG shouldn't hire people who are so insensitive to the thoughts and feelings of others to a position that requires the marketing of the EG brand. It doesn't make practical sense. It also doesn't make moral sense; as a community, we shouldn't promote behavior that is so selfish.
It's sad. I like his casting, a lot actually. I'm a fan of his. Even though he annoys me every time he casts when he looks at the chat and calls someone a retard or stupid or whatever, I still really like him. The problem for Orb is theirs a ton of casters I really like that are up and coming in the scene, and the majority haven't appeared to be so selfish to me.
tl;dr Orb isn't a racist but rather incredibly selfish, eg pls fire
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EPT
