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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 09:15 compucomp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:12 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just for the fun of it, I went to the search function on TeamLiquid and used these parameters: Search Content: faggot Search: Content Only Username: IdrA got something like 23 results from 22 threads. If Orb DOES get fired, they better justify it via the "lying to management" part, and not the content part. I'll even go as far as to quote IdrA here. On February 10 2007 02:18 IdrA wrote:
common useage has basically made fag interchangeable with any other standard insult, 99% of the time a person using it that way has no homosexual-related intentions, its no different than any other insult except it pisses overly sensitive people off a bit more once in a while. Nobody cares if you say "faggot" anymore. This shouldn't have even been drama in the first place, and I personally don't think Orb should have even had the chance to lie about this to someone. Keep doing a great job of ruining great casters' opportunities Reddit. I vote you go for DJWheat next, he seems like a nice guy. I don't think IdrA has called anyone a nigger, ever. That's judged by society (fairly or not) to be much worse. He knows not to cross that line, but orb did.
But IdrA called someone "a waste of life" (btw. it happened in this forum and on top of it he sent his twitter followers to harras a mod) and now tell me what is worse. Some things have direct influence on other peoples real lifes, others are just stupid words. (written in a NON-public environment)
Please draw a line. Imagine if someone would annoy you in real life and you misbehave towards him. Then he makes all of this (originally privat matter) public and totally unrelated people start picking you apart. Some even want you to lose your Job. This got blown way out of proportion and should be ended.
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On March 09 2012 09:22 kalteras wrote:I never thought the following statement could be true, but your opinion is objectively wrong, orb is a terrible caster.
Objectively, your statement has about as much validity as mine. Cheers.
tldr: opinions.
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On March 09 2012 09:23 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:22 kalteras wrote:On March 09 2012 09:21 EMIYA wrote:
Orb's a great caster" I never thought the following statement could be true, but your opinion is objectively wrong, orb is a terrible caster. And for what reason is that?
He's wrong, often. I know competently talking about a live game is difficult, but when you make statements about the game that are incorrect maybe you shouldn't be a professional caster.
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On March 09 2012 09:22 analyze wrote:
The word "nigger" does not have the same negative connotation it once held. The power of the word has diminished greatly since segregation. I agree that it still is not an appropriate term to use to describe anyone, but let's be honest, he was just in an angry rage and said this word. You could have replaced that with any word...
Wow really.... this is a terrible thing to say.
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On March 09 2012 09:18 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:15 compucomp wrote:On March 09 2012 09:12 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just for the fun of it, I went to the search function on TeamLiquid and used these parameters: Search Content: faggot Search: Content Only Username: IdrA got something like 23 results from 22 threads. If Orb DOES get fired, they better justify it via the "lying to management" part, and not the content part. I'll even go as far as to quote IdrA here. On February 10 2007 02:18 IdrA wrote:
common useage has basically made fag interchangeable with any other standard insult, 99% of the time a person using it that way has no homosexual-related intentions, its no different than any other insult except it pisses overly sensitive people off a bit more once in a while. Nobody cares if you say "faggot" anymore. This shouldn't have even been drama in the first place, and I personally don't think Orb should have even had the chance to lie about this to someone. Keep doing a great job of ruining great casters' opportunities Reddit. I vote you go for DJWheat next, he seems like a nice guy. I don't think IdrA has called anyone a nigger, ever. That's judged by society (fairly or not) to be much worse. He knows not to cross that line, but orb did. So, according to you, being homophobic is ok.
pls tell me your joking or blind or just "joking" because that's not what he said.
There is a huge socially/historically gap between the n word and "faggot"
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On March 09 2012 09:23 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:19 sam!zdat wrote:On March 09 2012 09:17 Rorschach wrote:
For the love of god please close this thread! What are the people who are calling for this thread to be closed really afraid of? My guess is it's that they're afraid they might have to actually examine the way they use language themselves and not just go around the world like idiot children repeating any inanity that comes in through their ear-holes. Maybe you should examine the soundness of an argument which seeks to demonstrate personal, directed hatred on the basis of what a person says when they're feeling angry and frustrated. When you're angry, you're not TRYING to be polite or keep things under control. You've lost control! That's what being pissed off means! God, why is this so hard to understand? Orb didn't just go up to someone and say 'hey, you, yeah, you: you're a nigger." This is honestly the stupidest thread I've ever read on these forums (and that's saying a lot). This is a storm in a teacup, and I'm sick of this holier-than-thou presumption from people like you. Stop trying to allude to high concepts like philosophy of language (when what you want is psychology or sociology, by the way) or morality or history or whatever. This is a trivial event, and the only people that are offended are people like you who think they need to be offended on behalf of the people that these words are supposed to offend.
what about those who are offended by Orb's attempts to play them for a bunch of morons?
you don't go bleating about "slander" because you've lost control.
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On March 09 2012 09:19 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:12 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just for the fun of it, I went to the search function on TeamLiquid and used these parameters: Search Content: faggot Search: Content Only Username: IdrA got something like 23 results from 22 threads. If Orb DOES get fired, they better justify it via the "lying to management" part, and not the content part. I'll even go as far as to quote IdrA here. On February 10 2007 02:18 IdrA wrote:
common useage has basically made fag interchangeable with any other standard insult, 99% of the time a person using it that way has no homosexual-related intentions, its no different than any other insult except it pisses overly sensitive people off a bit more once in a while. Nobody cares if you say "faggot" anymore. This shouldn't have even been drama in the first place, and I personally don't think Orb should have even had the chance to lie about this to someone. Keep doing a great job of ruining great casters' opportunities Reddit. I vote you go for DJWheat next, he seems like a nice guy. The last line is the most interesting part. You think reddit logged on to his account and said all of these things? No, he did. People should always receive the consequences for the things that they did.. Do you disagree with a statement like that?
Yeah, I do.
If you want to persecute every single person who's ever used an inflammatory comment on their stream, or while being played on someone else's stream, or on TeamLiquid I think you'll find yourself left with no foreign scene whatsoever.
Honestly, some crimes aren't worth persecuting. Look at Wal-Mart and CVS, they lose millions a year in petty theft, but they'd lose even more if they persecuted everyone who steals a pack of gum.
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On March 09 2012 09:19 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:18 ZTZS wrote:
its funny how many TLers think "nigger" is acceptable. what if orb called him a slanty eyed chink? or a greasy ass spic? just because you arent black you miss the point completely. also, i always knew orb was KKK I get called chink every day... People get so butthurt over words these days
Hmm, so because you are less easily offended (because you have been desensitized to them either from friends joking around when they call you that, or you just hear it often enough) or because you don't get as easily offended as others, means that everyone else should just deal with it. Flawless logic right there.
I should just go around calling every Asian I see a chink in a very aggressive manner, and then when they get pissed I will say "stop getting so butthurt over words." It shouldn't matter if it offends the majority of people because it wouldn't bother me, right? (Though it would bother me if I called people that in a non playful way)
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On March 09 2012 09:23 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:19 sam!zdat wrote:On March 09 2012 09:17 Rorschach wrote:
For the love of god please close this thread! What are the people who are calling for this thread to be closed really afraid of? My guess is it's that they're afraid they might have to actually examine the way they use language themselves and not just go around the world like idiot children repeating any inanity that comes in through their ear-holes. Maybe you should examine the soundness of an argument which seeks to demonstrate personal, directed hatred on the basis of what a person says when they're feeling angry and frustrated. When you're angry, you're not TRYING to be polite or keep things under control. You've lost control! That's what being pissed off means! God, why is this so hard to understand? Orb didn't just go up to someone and say 'hey, you, yeah, you: you're a nigger." This is honestly the stupidest thread I've ever read on these forums (and that's saying a lot). This is a storm in a teacup, and I'm sick of this holier-than-thou presumption from people like you. Stop trying to allude to high concepts like philosophy of language (when what you want is psychology or sociology, by the way) or morality or history or whatever. This is a trivial event, and the only people that are offended are people like you who think they need to be offended on behalf of the people that these words are supposed to offend.
If you resort to calling someone a "nigger" when you're pissed off, what does that mean? It isn't like "faggot" where 99% of people between 10-25 use it every single day, it's the kind of word that using in real life gets you smacked in the face.
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On March 09 2012 09:22 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:15 SovSov wrote:On March 09 2012 09:10 Rorschach wrote:On March 09 2012 09:02 Utinni wrote:On March 09 2012 08:57 figq wrote:
Playing games on ladder is a personal matter, not a public matter, and should not be in any way related to what you do in your esports professional activities, because it's not a professional activity in itself. Obviously Orb is nether racist, nor homophobic, he just reaches for whatever derogatory word comes to mind when he wants to offend a stranger on the ladder.
The further accusation of him "trying to cover it up", I have no idea if it's true, but seriously if it was true - it's also not that shocking. Orb has a history of being very vulnerable to personal accusations, to the point that he really becomes extremely defensive and loses his calm.
Above all, Orb is the best single (non-tandem) SC2 caster in the world; his style of casting is very polished and professional, his understanding of the game and in-depth analysis is at the level of only Artosis and active progamers. He is a very intelligent person, with the odd flip-side that he can be verbally offensive on ladder. That part about him is not new, he's always been famous about it, and people have been teasing him about it since beta. It complements perfectly his otherwise highly professional behavior, and frankly is just a personal matter of his, and shouldn't be for the public to control. He was put in a professional position and lied to EG about his raging past. It is a public matter when the public knows about it. It would be the same as if a newscaster did the same thing and it was filmed at a bar or public event. It may have not been for the world to see but the world did see it and he will be punished accordingly. OMG "lied about his raging past". Sir (pulls down shades) you've been convicted of a rage crime. Come with us.... Also people please quit saying Orb is racist! You're all retarded if you think he is actually racist (just as I would be if thought you were all literally retarded) TL is starting to make me as sick a the reddit community... Take Person A: He doesn't say anything. Person B: Uses the word nigger. Who is it safer to assume is racist? Are people retarded for thinking Person B is racist? I would think him using that word ups his chance for being an actual racist. So I fail to see how people are retarded who assuming he is racist when he uses a word associated with racism. You don't know Orb. You have never met him personally, you don't know what his personality is, what his political views are, what his views on race are. You don't know whether he's actually racist or not. Just because he threw out the N-word on his stream a few times does not make him a racist. If he goes up to black people and calls them the N-word or a coon to their face, that's a different story. So in summary, no it's not safe to assume Person B is a racist.
I never said it was right for people to assume he was racist, I said it wasn't retarded of them to do so.
You don't know Orb. You have never met him personally, you don't know what his personality is, what his political views are, what his views on race are. You don't know whether he's actually racist or not. But what people do know is he likes to use the n-word.
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On March 09 2012 09:12 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just for the fun of it, I went to the search function on TeamLiquid and used these parameters: Search Content: faggot Search: Content Only Username: IdrA got something like 23 results from 22 threads. If Orb DOES get fired, they better justify it via the "lying to management" part, and not the content part. I'll even go as far as to quote IdrA here. Show nested quote +On February 10 2007 02:18 IdrA wrote:
common useage has basically made fag interchangeable with any other standard insult, 99% of the time a person using it that way has no homosexual-related intentions, its no different than any other insult except it pisses overly sensitive people off a bit more once in a while. Nobody cares if you say "faggot" anymore. This shouldn't have even been drama in the first place, and I personally don't think Orb should have even had the chance to lie about this to someone. Keep doing a great job of ruining great casters' opportunities Reddit. I vote you go for DJWheat next, he seems like a nice guy.
Agreed. I think the context of the situation should be taken into account. Obviously that doesn't make it okay because he was provoked but I don't think he was trying to be racist either. I expect some sort of heavy punishment in the next few days but being fired and disappearing from the community would suck for him, for EG, and for us fans.
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Regardless of what he said, now I'm just curious what is a lie and what isn't? Does he share his account with others? Does he really think people are slandering him?
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On March 09 2012 09:25 VirgilSC2 wrote:
If you want to persecute every single person who's ever used an inflammatory comment on their stream, or while being played on someone else's stream, or on TeamLiquid I think you'll find yourself left with no foreign scene whatsoever.
Honestly, some crimes aren't worth persecuting. Look at Wal-Mart and CVS, they lose millions a year in petty theft, but they'd lose even more if they persecuted everyone who steals a pack of gum.
It's not persecution.
The criminal is irrelevant; the crime is important. Your analogy is stupid.
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On March 09 2012 09:19 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:17 Rorschach wrote:
For the love of god please close this thread! What are the people who are calling for this thread to be closed really afraid of? My guess is it's that they're afraid they might have to actually examine the way they use language themselves and not just go around the world like idiot children repeating any inanity that comes in through their ear-holes.
This thread is garbage, full of double standards and asshats who want to stir the pot.
Nobody has anything better to do so they stir up shit trying to get someone fired...
karma bitch, it will come around some time.
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If people are ever going to take eSports seriously, then famous players should be accountable for being sportsmanlike. Just look at the Say No to Racism campaign in soccer.
There's a whole lot of racist apologists in this topic...
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Everyone who is judging and making insane accusations please know that you have raged before and said things you didn't mean, and that you did not want the public to see. He raged, said some bad things, and that's that. Hopefully he'll learn his lesson, and no one should judge him based off of these since everyone has done the same.
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On March 09 2012 09:25 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:19 Razuik wrote:On March 09 2012 09:12 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just for the fun of it, I went to the search function on TeamLiquid and used these parameters: Search Content: faggot Search: Content Only Username: IdrA got something like 23 results from 22 threads. If Orb DOES get fired, they better justify it via the "lying to management" part, and not the content part. I'll even go as far as to quote IdrA here. On February 10 2007 02:18 IdrA wrote:
common useage has basically made fag interchangeable with any other standard insult, 99% of the time a person using it that way has no homosexual-related intentions, its no different than any other insult except it pisses overly sensitive people off a bit more once in a while. Nobody cares if you say "faggot" anymore. This shouldn't have even been drama in the first place, and I personally don't think Orb should have even had the chance to lie about this to someone. Keep doing a great job of ruining great casters' opportunities Reddit. I vote you go for DJWheat next, he seems like a nice guy. The last line is the most interesting part. You think reddit logged on to his account and said all of these things? No, he did. People should always receive the consequences for the things that they did.. Do you disagree with a statement like that? Yeah, I do. If you want to persecute every single person who's ever used an inflammatory comment on their stream, or while being played on someone else's stream, or on TeamLiquid I think you'll find yourself left with no foreign scene whatsoever. Honestly, some crimes aren't worth persecuting. Look at Wal-Mart and CVS, they lose millions a year in petty theft, but they'd lose even more if they persecuted everyone who steals a pack of gum.
... that's PROsecution, bro, not PERsecution
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This is still going on?
There is an ancient saying I can´t translate right now...
so i´ll stick with the bible instead: let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
Orb is a great caster - from my perspective thats all that matters.
Thinking before talking/typing is a useful skill toi have, too bad most people are stuck in Bronze/Silver League regarding behaviour and respect towards their fellow humans - some didn´t even get their placement matches done i guess.
For a person with a known nickname who is involved in a professional environment it is incredibly stupid to fail that hard, when you so easily could just have stfu and not blamed someone else in an offensive way for your own mistakes, which clearly are the _only_ cause of anyone ever losing any game of Starcraft.
Looking forward to see the community mature, concerning pointing fingers at others, hyping everything and using double standards, aswell as getting enraged, being unprofessional, ....
</rant> I could go on but what´s the point, I probably lost most of, whoever is reading this, at "Orb is a great caster - from my perspective thats all that matters."
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The bm is pretty harsh but I'm still happy to see that alot of people are taking it pretty calmly and not rushing the pitchforks!
The most ridiculous part is actually the people in this thread who can't believe that some people aren't getting completely worked up about it.
Drama, oh drama!
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Wow, since when did TL think "nigger" is an acceptable word...? Would you walk up to a black man and call him that? Extremely rude... Doesn't matter if the semantics have changed...
Plus he lied about it and called everyone slanderers. Yes you.
If he had said it on this forum, for example... Woulda been a temp ban or even a perm. I can't say hey X poster, youre a nigger cuz you cheesed me. Not acceptable at all. It isn't private, he STREAMED IT.
And for the record ^^^ posters IMO IdrA saying "fag" is pretty messed up too. And he should be reprimanded for that. But he has been good lately, very even casting at IEM.
I don't think orb is a bad person, but we all should have some accountability for what we say-internet or not.
Thank you for reading this.
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EPT
