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desRow no longer on Team Legion - Page 11

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ratzp0li
Profile Joined December 2011
United States340 Posts
January 28 2012 23:09 GMT
#201
On January 29 2012 00:53 tUUTZ wrote:
[image loading]

User was temp banned for this post.

oh wow

really?


User was banned for this post.
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
January 28 2012 23:13 GMT
#202
On January 29 2012 05:01 Baum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 04:34 Supamang wrote:
Why are people being such dicks in this thread? I've heard the name Desrow but I don't know much about him. Is he a BMer or something?


Also:


On January 28 2012 18:09 Teodice wrote:
For all of you saying he doesn't got the talent to make. Christ, I'm not even a Desrow fan but making statements like "he does not have the talent for it" is just stupid.

In my opinion there is no such thing as talent. Do the holy god up there, blessed be his name, allow some people to become sc2 pros by giving them the talent for it? Don't think so... You become god at something through hard work and understanding of what you're doing. Maybe Desrow will reach that point some day, maybe not.


Desrow is incredibly dedicated and is really working for his dream to come true nd that's something all people should respect.

The idea that "talent" doesn't exist is a load of bullshit. Some people are honestly endowed with genes that allow them to have higher potential than others. Kid with a high IQ will always learn quicker than than a kid with a low IQ. If they work just as hard as each other, are you seriously suggesting that they will progress at the same rate? Im not saying you should just stop trying and blame your failures on not being born right. I just think that its naive to believe that were all created equal and that "as long as you just do your best you can be anything you want to be!"


IQ isn't determined by genes there are a lot more other factors. You can practice macro, you can practice micro, you can refine your buildorders, you can improve your decision making and work on your mindset. Maybe some have to work harder than others but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to compete given the current skill level.

Really. So Kim Ung-yong was just a product of great parenting and perfect schooling? This guy has an IQ of 210 and began speaking 2 months after birth. His mom must have given him some really dope practice regimens while pushing him out of her uterus. You know what, let me just copy paste the Wikipedia article:

Shortly after birth, Kim began to display extraordinary intellectual ability. He began speaking at 2 months, could converse fluently by 6 months, and was able to read Korean, Japanese, German, and English by his second birthday. Furthermore, it took him about a month to learn a foreign language. After 7 months he learned concepts of Algebra and could understand concepts of differential calculus. At the age of four, on November 2, 1967, he solved complicated differential and integral calculus problems on Japanese television. Even in early childhood, he began to write poetry and was an amazing painter.

Kim was a guest student of physics at Hanyang University auditing courses from the age of 4 until he was 7. In 1970, at the age of 8, he was invited to the United States by NASA, where he finished his university studies. In 1974, during his university studies, he began his research work at NASA and continued this work until his return to Korea in 1978.
Back in Korea, he decided to switch from physics to civil engineering and received a doctorate in that field. He eventually published about 90 papers on hydraulics in scientific journals. As of 2007 he also serves as adjunct faculty at Chungbuk National University.


How the hell does hard work and practice have anything to do with all of that? Please enlighten us so we can begin making all babies around the world as smart as this guy.

Obviously this is an extreme example, but also obviously there are a lot of people with lower IQs than that who are still extremely smart. On the physical side of the equation, I have an ectomorphic 5'2" friend. Please try to convince him that he's not hindered by his genes when he tries to train for the NBA.
Some people are simply born luckier than others. Youre gonna have a hard time convincing people otherwise considering the very real examples of people being born lucky and others being born extremely unlucky.
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
January 28 2012 23:17 GMT
#203
people don't hate desrow because of his weight. it's just a target of insults. just look how much the community loves sheth, even before he was with team liquid.
BestFriends
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada133 Posts
January 28 2012 23:18 GMT
#204
personally I find this topic hilarious. I used to support desrow and his endevours but after playing him multiple times on korea with him bming me iv grown kind of impartial to his doings.
It's not about winning but the prevention of defeat.
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
January 28 2012 23:26 GMT
#205
On January 10 2012 03:02 GosI[Terran] wrote:
[1/8/2012 12:00:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u have revival skype?
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: yes
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: why
[1/8/2012 12:01:55 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i want to showmatch him
[1/8/2012 12:01:57 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to me plz
[1/8/2012 12:02:22 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dood
[1/8/2012 12:02:24 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i see you playing him
[1/8/2012 12:02:27 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to meeeeeeee
[1/8/2012 12:28:00 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give ittt
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:51 AM] Musa*: he
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: wont
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: play
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: u
[1/8/2012 12:46:28 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: stfu
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: and give me his skype
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: wtf
[1/8/2012 12:46:31 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: so bm
[1/8/2012 12:50:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dont be a dick
[1/8/2012 12:50:14 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: !!!
[1/8/2012 12:51:01 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u didnt even asked him
[1/8/2012 12:51:08 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: im going to shit in your food once u come here
[1/8/2012 12:51:10 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u god damn mexican
[1/8/2012 1:06:51 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: yea get raped by revival poor guy is wasting his time not even getting payed
[1/8/2012 1:06:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: at least i want to pay him
[1/8/2012 1:06:56 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: for the showmatch
[1/8/2012 1:09:21 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: ok kid
[1/8/2012 1:09:25 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: time to give it to me
[1/8/2012 1:10:00 AM] Musa*: im not giivng u shit
[1/8/2012 1:11:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: olOLLOLOLOLO
[1/8/2012 1:19:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: your bf will have to be kicked if u come here
[1/8/2012 1:19:16 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: its so sad
[1/8/2012 1:38:21 AM] Musa*: ?

On January 10 2012 10:36 BasilForSkin wrote:

Hahaha, wow. I was one of the mods in Revival's chat that was trying to help him out, but he was just being an asshole to us. He even called me a dumbass at some point among other things, and in general was very rude when I was only asking him for information about the showmatch so that I could pass it on to Revival. He never understood that Revival doesn't know who he is and that simply demanding his Skype wouldn't get him anywhere.

Gogo Revival!~


this is why people don't like him.
darlhet
Profile Joined March 2011
Italy548 Posts
January 28 2012 23:31 GMT
#206
On January 29 2012 08:09 ratzp0li wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 00:53 tUUTZ wrote:
[image loading]

User was temp banned for this post.

oh wow

really?
i have nothing against the guy, but that was pure gold
"i feel like im wasting your time" qxc to whitera after getting crushed 0-4
SixPackAbs
Profile Joined September 2010
United States160 Posts
January 28 2012 23:47 GMT
#207
I've disliked him ever since i saw him beg three teams in their twitch tv chats to sign him. like just spam the chat begging for skype names of higher up people and junk, really lame. go through the proper channels for that shit. Now he finds a team and quits because he doenst want to live in close quarters with his teamates.
Dante_A_
Profile Joined September 2010
United States161 Posts
January 28 2012 23:50 GMT
#208
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 29 2012 08:26 akalarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 03:02 GosI[Terran] wrote:
[1/8/2012 12:00:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u have revival skype?
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: yes
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: why
[1/8/2012 12:01:55 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i want to showmatch him
[1/8/2012 12:01:57 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to me plz
[1/8/2012 12:02:22 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dood
[1/8/2012 12:02:24 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i see you playing him
[1/8/2012 12:02:27 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to meeeeeeee
[1/8/2012 12:28:00 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give ittt
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:51 AM] Musa*: he
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: wont
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: play
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: u
[1/8/2012 12:46:28 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: stfu
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: and give me his skype
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: wtf
[1/8/2012 12:46:31 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: so bm
[1/8/2012 12:50:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dont be a dick
[1/8/2012 12:50:14 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: !!!
[1/8/2012 12:51:01 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u didnt even asked him
[1/8/2012 12:51:08 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: im going to shit in your food once u come here
[1/8/2012 12:51:10 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u god damn mexican
[1/8/2012 1:06:51 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: yea get raped by revival poor guy is wasting his time not even getting payed
[1/8/2012 1:06:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: at least i want to pay him
[1/8/2012 1:06:56 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: for the showmatch
[1/8/2012 1:09:21 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: ok kid
[1/8/2012 1:09:25 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: time to give it to me
[1/8/2012 1:10:00 AM] Musa*: im not giivng u shit
[1/8/2012 1:11:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: olOLLOLOLOLO
[1/8/2012 1:19:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: your bf will have to be kicked if u come here
[1/8/2012 1:19:16 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: its so sad
[1/8/2012 1:38:21 AM] Musa*: ?

Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 10:36 BasilForSkin wrote:

Hahaha, wow. I was one of the mods in Revival's chat that was trying to help him out, but he was just being an asshole to us. He even called me a dumbass at some point among other things, and in general was very rude when I was only asking him for information about the showmatch so that I could pass it on to Revival. He never understood that Revival doesn't know who he is and that simply demanding his Skype wouldn't get him anywhere.

Gogo Revival!~


this is why people don't like him.



This is pretty bad; maybe teenagers view this sort of immaturity differently (I'm sure I did when I was younger), but I can't root for people who talk like this. You can't make it anywhere in this world alone, and it certainly doesn't help you improve by BMing other good players.
SC2NeCro
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada507 Posts
January 28 2012 23:54 GMT
#209
Wow at those text logs. Wow at him begging.

Honestly this is sad.
Fav Terran: forGG, aLive, Jinro ||| Fav Zerg: Moon, TLO, DRG ||| Fav Protoss: Genius, Grubby, ToD
simmeh
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada2511 Posts
January 29 2012 00:16 GMT
#210
On January 29 2012 08:26 akalarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 03:02 GosI[Terran] wrote:
[1/8/2012 12:00:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u have revival skype?
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: yes
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: why
[1/8/2012 12:01:55 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i want to showmatch him
[1/8/2012 12:01:57 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to me plz
[1/8/2012 12:02:22 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dood
[1/8/2012 12:02:24 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i see you playing him
[1/8/2012 12:02:27 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to meeeeeeee
[1/8/2012 12:28:00 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give ittt
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:51 AM] Musa*: he
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: wont
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: play
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: u
[1/8/2012 12:46:28 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: stfu
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: and give me his skype
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: wtf
[1/8/2012 12:46:31 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: so bm
[1/8/2012 12:50:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dont be a dick
[1/8/2012 12:50:14 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: !!!
[1/8/2012 12:51:01 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u didnt even asked him
[1/8/2012 12:51:08 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: im going to shit in your food once u come here
[1/8/2012 12:51:10 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u god damn mexican
[1/8/2012 1:06:51 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: yea get raped by revival poor guy is wasting his time not even getting payed
[1/8/2012 1:06:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: at least i want to pay him
[1/8/2012 1:06:56 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: for the showmatch
[1/8/2012 1:09:21 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: ok kid
[1/8/2012 1:09:25 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: time to give it to me
[1/8/2012 1:10:00 AM] Musa*: im not giivng u shit
[1/8/2012 1:11:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: olOLLOLOLOLO
[1/8/2012 1:19:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: your bf will have to be kicked if u come here
[1/8/2012 1:19:16 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: its so sad
[1/8/2012 1:38:21 AM] Musa*: ?

Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 10:36 BasilForSkin wrote:

Hahaha, wow. I was one of the mods in Revival's chat that was trying to help him out, but he was just being an asshole to us. He even called me a dumbass at some point among other things, and in general was very rude when I was only asking him for information about the showmatch so that I could pass it on to Revival. He never understood that Revival doesn't know who he is and that simply demanding his Skype wouldn't get him anywhere.

Gogo Revival!~


this is why people don't like him.


wow i didnt know that happened
makes their showmatch result all the more funnier
byah!
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
January 29 2012 00:22 GMT
#211
Ok I understand how some people don't like desRow but is that really a reason to turn this thread into a shit fest? Come on guys we are better than this. If you don't like him, move on who cares at the very least don't be completely demeaning to the guy.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
January 29 2012 00:25 GMT
#212
On January 29 2012 06:44 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 06:17 Spicy_Curry wrote:
On January 29 2012 05:01 Baum wrote:
On January 29 2012 04:34 Supamang wrote:
Why are people being such dicks in this thread? I've heard the name Desrow but I don't know much about him. Is he a BMer or something?


Also:


On January 28 2012 18:09 Teodice wrote:
For all of you saying he doesn't got the talent to make. Christ, I'm not even a Desrow fan but making statements like "he does not have the talent for it" is just stupid.

In my opinion there is no such thing as talent. Do the holy god up there, blessed be his name, allow some people to become sc2 pros by giving them the talent for it? Don't think so... You become god at something through hard work and understanding of what you're doing. Maybe Desrow will reach that point some day, maybe not.


Desrow is incredibly dedicated and is really working for his dream to come true nd that's something all people should respect.

The idea that "talent" doesn't exist is a load of bullshit. Some people are honestly endowed with genes that allow them to have higher potential than others. Kid with a high IQ will always learn quicker than than a kid with a low IQ. If they work just as hard as each other, are you seriously suggesting that they will progress at the same rate? Im not saying you should just stop trying and blame your failures on not being born right. I just think that its naive to believe that were all created equal and that "as long as you just do your best you can be anything you want to be!"



IQ isn't determined by genes there are a lot more other factors. You can practice macro, you can practice micro, you can refine your buildorders, you can improve your decision making and work on your mindset. Maybe some have to work harder than others but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to compete given the current skill level.



Assuming that natural talent does not exist everyone would start at the same level. We know that is not true.


This is very far from the truth. The main reason any player is better than another is a) prior experience and b) mentality. If two random people start playing Starcraft 2, and one is better, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has more 'talent' (which is such a vague term that it's essentially useless). Maybe one of them has played other RTS games before; or perhaps one of them was a chess player. Perhaps one does some sort of sport competitively that gives him the competitive mentality needed to rise above his friend. There's no 'Starcraft 2 Skill' attribute in our DNA that we're born with - it's simply a combination of everything we've learned this far. Another example: someone who has studied decision theory and game theory will probably improve at a faster rate than your average player.

A lot of people are talking about IQ, but the truth of the matter is that past an IQ of around 120 IQ stops being correlated with success. True success is a combination of factors, but primarily involves a high enough IQ (120+), an environment that allows focused practice, and the constant reach to improve your skills (once again, deliberate practice).


I made a really long post awhile back about this, let me find it. But basically, I believe the average IQ of a Korean pro gamer is around 120, and higher than the average IQ of a foreign sc2 pro:


People say the only difference between foreigners and Korean is training regiment, but I've been thinking about it.

Let's compare NBA in the United States to SC2 in South Korea. Growing up in the respective countries, each nation's youth watches and idolizes the sport and its players. Being an NBA superstar comes with the glamour, women, and money and while, of course, Starcraft pros are far from that, they are still considered celebrities in their country. The aforementioned means that Basketball in the US and Starcraft in South Korea will draw in the most talented players from their countries talent pool.

For basketball important traits are: height, agility, coordination, stamina, etc.

For Starcraft: intelligence, reaction speed, analytic abilities, and etc.

So in the US the nations fastest, tallest, quickest citizens will be playing basketball their entire lives, hoping to become pro.

Does Korea's smartest most analytic citizens play Starcraft? Maybe not the elite level of the talent pool like the NBA, but certainly more so than SC in the US. Polt is in Korea's equivilency to Harvard. Marinekingprime's father said he wanted his son to become a lawyer or doctor. How many potential lawyers or doctors have chosen the life of a pro gamer in Korea instead?

What about the US? Gaming is frowned upon in our society. Those with the traits that would enable them to excel at SC are in College becoming engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. The vast majority of them have never even heard the word starcraft. In America, becoming a progamer is more about opportunity than ability. Loners and nerds in high school, people not yet in the workforce with a lot of free time, and yes there are college students-- but it isn't the same as the Korean SC players.

The average IQ in South Korea is 106, while it's 98 in the states. It might not seem like a lot, but the difference between South Korea and the US is the same as the US and Columbia.

Now, are we willing to admit the IQ of the average Korean pro sc2 player is higher than that of the average foreign pro sc2 player? As illustrated before, Starcraft in Korea taps more into their nation's talent pool than Starcraft outside of it. The average IQ of a Korean progamer is what? Probably 120? and maybe 105 for foreigners. Future Engineers will naturally do better than future construction workers, department store workers, and factory workers because Starcraft appeals more to their skillset than the latter.

What do you guys think?
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-29 00:31:41
January 29 2012 00:30 GMT
#213
On January 29 2012 09:25 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 06:44 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
On January 29 2012 06:17 Spicy_Curry wrote:
On January 29 2012 05:01 Baum wrote:
On January 29 2012 04:34 Supamang wrote:
Why are people being such dicks in this thread? I've heard the name Desrow but I don't know much about him. Is he a BMer or something?


Also:


On January 28 2012 18:09 Teodice wrote:
For all of you saying he doesn't got the talent to make. Christ, I'm not even a Desrow fan but making statements like "he does not have the talent for it" is just stupid.

In my opinion there is no such thing as talent. Do the holy god up there, blessed be his name, allow some people to become sc2 pros by giving them the talent for it? Don't think so... You become god at something through hard work and understanding of what you're doing. Maybe Desrow will reach that point some day, maybe not.


Desrow is incredibly dedicated and is really working for his dream to come true nd that's something all people should respect.

The idea that "talent" doesn't exist is a load of bullshit. Some people are honestly endowed with genes that allow them to have higher potential than others. Kid with a high IQ will always learn quicker than than a kid with a low IQ. If they work just as hard as each other, are you seriously suggesting that they will progress at the same rate? Im not saying you should just stop trying and blame your failures on not being born right. I just think that its naive to believe that were all created equal and that "as long as you just do your best you can be anything you want to be!"



IQ isn't determined by genes there are a lot more other factors. You can practice macro, you can practice micro, you can refine your buildorders, you can improve your decision making and work on your mindset. Maybe some have to work harder than others but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to compete given the current skill level.



Assuming that natural talent does not exist everyone would start at the same level. We know that is not true.


This is very far from the truth. The main reason any player is better than another is a) prior experience and b) mentality. If two random people start playing Starcraft 2, and one is better, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has more 'talent' (which is such a vague term that it's essentially useless). Maybe one of them has played other RTS games before; or perhaps one of them was a chess player. Perhaps one does some sort of sport competitively that gives him the competitive mentality needed to rise above his friend. There's no 'Starcraft 2 Skill' attribute in our DNA that we're born with - it's simply a combination of everything we've learned this far. Another example: someone who has studied decision theory and game theory will probably improve at a faster rate than your average player.

A lot of people are talking about IQ, but the truth of the matter is that past an IQ of around 120 IQ stops being correlated with success. True success is a combination of factors, but primarily involves a high enough IQ (120+), an environment that allows focused practice, and the constant reach to improve your skills (once again, deliberate practice).


I made a really long post awhile back about this, let me find it. But basically, I believe the average IQ of a Korean pro gamer is around 120, and higher than the average IQ of a foreign sc2 pro:

What do you guys think?

i think you have no quantitative basis for what you just said.

On January 29 2012 08:26 akalarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 03:02 GosI[Terran] wrote:
[1/8/2012 12:00:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u have revival skype?
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: yes
[1/8/2012 12:01:22 AM] Musa*: why
[1/8/2012 12:01:55 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i want to showmatch him
[1/8/2012 12:01:57 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to me plz
[1/8/2012 12:02:22 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dood
[1/8/2012 12:02:24 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: i see you playing him
[1/8/2012 12:02:27 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give it to meeeeeeee
[1/8/2012 12:28:00 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: give ittt
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:47 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: asd
[1/8/2012 12:28:51 AM] Musa*: he
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: wont
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: play
[1/8/2012 12:28:52 AM] Musa*: u
[1/8/2012 12:46:28 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: stfu
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: and give me his skype
[1/8/2012 12:46:30 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: wtf
[1/8/2012 12:46:31 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: so bm
[1/8/2012 12:50:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: dont be a dick
[1/8/2012 12:50:14 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: !!!
[1/8/2012 12:51:01 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u didnt even asked him
[1/8/2012 12:51:08 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: im going to shit in your food once u come here
[1/8/2012 12:51:10 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: u god damn mexican
[1/8/2012 1:06:51 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: yea get raped by revival poor guy is wasting his time not even getting payed
[1/8/2012 1:06:54 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: at least i want to pay him
[1/8/2012 1:06:56 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: for the showmatch
[1/8/2012 1:09:21 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: ok kid
[1/8/2012 1:09:25 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: time to give it to me
[1/8/2012 1:10:00 AM] Musa*: im not giivng u shit
[1/8/2012 1:11:48 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: olOLLOLOLOLO
[1/8/2012 1:19:13 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: your bf will have to be kicked if u come here
[1/8/2012 1:19:16 AM] Marc-Olivier/ desRow: its so sad
[1/8/2012 1:38:21 AM] Musa*: ?

Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 10:36 BasilForSkin wrote:

Hahaha, wow. I was one of the mods in Revival's chat that was trying to help him out, but he was just being an asshole to us. He even called me a dumbass at some point among other things, and in general was very rude when I was only asking him for information about the showmatch so that I could pass it on to Revival. He never understood that Revival doesn't know who he is and that simply demanding his Skype wouldn't get him anywhere.

Gogo Revival!~


this is why people don't like him.

this is just too funny. i didnt actually know who desrow is; not i could care less even more.
ratzp0li
Profile Joined December 2011
United States340 Posts
January 29 2012 00:36 GMT
#214
On January 29 2012 09:25 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 06:44 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
On January 29 2012 06:17 Spicy_Curry wrote:
On January 29 2012 05:01 Baum wrote:
On January 29 2012 04:34 Supamang wrote:
Why are people being such dicks in this thread? I've heard the name Desrow but I don't know much about him. Is he a BMer or something?


Also:


On January 28 2012 18:09 Teodice wrote:
For all of you saying he doesn't got the talent to make. Christ, I'm not even a Desrow fan but making statements like "he does not have the talent for it" is just stupid.

In my opinion there is no such thing as talent. Do the holy god up there, blessed be his name, allow some people to become sc2 pros by giving them the talent for it? Don't think so... You become god at something through hard work and understanding of what you're doing. Maybe Desrow will reach that point some day, maybe not.


Desrow is incredibly dedicated and is really working for his dream to come true nd that's something all people should respect.

The idea that "talent" doesn't exist is a load of bullshit. Some people are honestly endowed with genes that allow them to have higher potential than others. Kid with a high IQ will always learn quicker than than a kid with a low IQ. If they work just as hard as each other, are you seriously suggesting that they will progress at the same rate? Im not saying you should just stop trying and blame your failures on not being born right. I just think that its naive to believe that were all created equal and that "as long as you just do your best you can be anything you want to be!"



IQ isn't determined by genes there are a lot more other factors. You can practice macro, you can practice micro, you can refine your buildorders, you can improve your decision making and work on your mindset. Maybe some have to work harder than others but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to compete given the current skill level.



Assuming that natural talent does not exist everyone would start at the same level. We know that is not true.


This is very far from the truth. The main reason any player is better than another is a) prior experience and b) mentality. If two random people start playing Starcraft 2, and one is better, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has more 'talent' (which is such a vague term that it's essentially useless). Maybe one of them has played other RTS games before; or perhaps one of them was a chess player. Perhaps one does some sort of sport competitively that gives him the competitive mentality needed to rise above his friend. There's no 'Starcraft 2 Skill' attribute in our DNA that we're born with - it's simply a combination of everything we've learned this far. Another example: someone who has studied decision theory and game theory will probably improve at a faster rate than your average player.

A lot of people are talking about IQ, but the truth of the matter is that past an IQ of around 120 IQ stops being correlated with success. True success is a combination of factors, but primarily involves a high enough IQ (120+), an environment that allows focused practice, and the constant reach to improve your skills (once again, deliberate practice).


I made a really long post awhile back about this, let me find it. But basically, I believe the average IQ of a Korean pro gamer is around 120, and higher than the average IQ of a foreign sc2 pro:


People say the only difference between foreigners and Korean is training regiment, but I've been thinking about it.

Let's compare NBA in the United States to SC2 in South Korea. Growing up in the respective countries, each nation's youth watches and idolizes the sport and its players. Being an NBA superstar comes with the glamour, women, and money and while, of course, Starcraft pros are far from that, they are still considered celebrities in their country. The aforementioned means that Basketball in the US and Starcraft in South Korea will draw in the most talented players from their countries talent pool.

For basketball important traits are: height, agility, coordination, stamina, etc.

For Starcraft: intelligence, reaction speed, analytic abilities, and etc.

So in the US the nations fastest, tallest, quickest citizens will be playing basketball their entire lives, hoping to become pro.

Does Korea's smartest most analytic citizens play Starcraft? Maybe not the elite level of the talent pool like the NBA, but certainly more so than SC in the US. Polt is in Korea's equivilency to Harvard. Marinekingprime's father said he wanted his son to become a lawyer or doctor. How many potential lawyers or doctors have chosen the life of a pro gamer in Korea instead?

What about the US? Gaming is frowned upon in our society. Those with the traits that would enable them to excel at SC are in College becoming engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. The vast majority of them have never even heard the word starcraft. In America, becoming a progamer is more about opportunity than ability. Loners and nerds in high school, people not yet in the workforce with a lot of free time, and yes there are college students-- but it isn't the same as the Korean SC players.

The average IQ in South Korea is 106, while it's 98 in the states. It might not seem like a lot, but the difference between South Korea and the US is the same as the US and Columbia.

Now, are we willing to admit the IQ of the average Korean pro sc2 player is higher than that of the average foreign pro sc2 player? As illustrated before, Starcraft in Korea taps more into their nation's talent pool than Starcraft outside of it. The average IQ of a Korean progamer is what? Probably 120? and maybe 105 for foreigners. Future Engineers will naturally do better than future construction workers, department store workers, and factory workers because Starcraft appeals more to their skillset than the latter.

What do you guys think?

This is actually pretty fucking good. You should make an OP.
dom_dom666
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada10 Posts
January 29 2012 00:36 GMT
#215
I dont get it why he still in korea, he didnt make his proof to deserve to be in korea. + Hes not even participating in tournament wich means no results from him. But its his money/ money of the team. so u can waste it where u want.
MonsterJukeBox
Profile Joined March 2011
35 Posts
January 29 2012 00:56 GMT
#216
On January 29 2012 09:36 dom_dom666 wrote:
I dont get it why he still in korea, he didnt make his proof to deserve to be in korea. + Hes not even participating in tournament wich means no results from him. But its his money/ money of the team. so u can waste it where u want.


Either you are stupid, or didn't read what desrow said. He is in korea to get better at this game, simple as that. And what do you mean "deserve to be in korea", doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.
Never know what hit 'em.
Avean
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Norway449 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-29 01:17:55
January 29 2012 01:16 GMT
#217
Some of you guys should take a big reality check. Ive seen him streaming since he started and for me he acts and behaves as a very nice guy. Ive seen him angry a few times but that is due to some major flaming on his chat, trust me its insanely bad. People attacking him about his weight but also talking about suicide and what not. Is it any wonder he sometimes get angry ? 99% of the time he is extremely nice.

Now to the other part of trolls saying he is a "nobody", well he has beaten many pro gamers and is currently masters in korea. He is also living in the gom house. Who are you ? Who are any of you ? This is a guy following a goal, he is doing something for himself. Leave the guy alone geezes. If you guys really dont care about Desrow, why is all i see on TL are threads with hundreds of comments ? You trolls are actually fighting yourselfs.

SC2NeCro
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada507 Posts
January 29 2012 01:25 GMT
#218
On January 29 2012 10:16 Avean wrote:
Some of you guys should take a big reality check. Ive seen him streaming since he started and for me he acts and behaves as a very nice guy. Ive seen him angry a few times but that is due to some major flaming on his chat, trust me its insanely bad. People attacking him about his weight but also talking about suicide and what not. Is it any wonder he sometimes get angry ? 99% of the time he is extremely nice.

Now to the other part of trolls saying he is a "nobody", well he has beaten many pro gamers and is currently masters in korea. He is also living in the gom house. Who are you ? Who are any of you ? This is a guy following a goal, he is doing something for himself. Leave the guy alone geezes. If you guys really dont care about Desrow, why is all i see on TL are threads with hundreds of comments ? You trolls are actually fighting yourselfs.



How do we leave him alone when there is a news post about him for every little thing he does? Like he's some sort of top notch pro? How do we leave him alone when he posts blogs on how he is cheesing IdrA for attention? When he begs people on twitch to join teams then BMs the hell out of them when they refuse? When various other pro gamers do not, in fact, like him?

I'm being harsh here, but it's the truth. I don't think anyone on teamliquid really cares that LGN has released DesRow. He should post it on his stream for his loyal viewers to peruse, because they are the ones who care.

DesRow is only known somewhat because he is infamous. That's not something to be proud of at all. Look at all his threads, they sour instantly. Take a clue.
Fav Terran: forGG, aLive, Jinro ||| Fav Zerg: Moon, TLO, DRG ||| Fav Protoss: Genius, Grubby, ToD
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
January 29 2012 01:28 GMT
#219
On January 29 2012 09:25 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 06:44 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
On January 29 2012 06:17 Spicy_Curry wrote:
On January 29 2012 05:01 Baum wrote:
On January 29 2012 04:34 Supamang wrote:
Why are people being such dicks in this thread? I've heard the name Desrow but I don't know much about him. Is he a BMer or something?


Also:


On January 28 2012 18:09 Teodice wrote:
For all of you saying he doesn't got the talent to make. Christ, I'm not even a Desrow fan but making statements like "he does not have the talent for it" is just stupid.

In my opinion there is no such thing as talent. Do the holy god up there, blessed be his name, allow some people to become sc2 pros by giving them the talent for it? Don't think so... You become god at something through hard work and understanding of what you're doing. Maybe Desrow will reach that point some day, maybe not.


Desrow is incredibly dedicated and is really working for his dream to come true nd that's something all people should respect.

The idea that "talent" doesn't exist is a load of bullshit. Some people are honestly endowed with genes that allow them to have higher potential than others. Kid with a high IQ will always learn quicker than than a kid with a low IQ. If they work just as hard as each other, are you seriously suggesting that they will progress at the same rate? Im not saying you should just stop trying and blame your failures on not being born right. I just think that its naive to believe that were all created equal and that "as long as you just do your best you can be anything you want to be!"



IQ isn't determined by genes there are a lot more other factors. You can practice macro, you can practice micro, you can refine your buildorders, you can improve your decision making and work on your mindset. Maybe some have to work harder than others but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to compete given the current skill level.



Assuming that natural talent does not exist everyone would start at the same level. We know that is not true.


This is very far from the truth. The main reason any player is better than another is a) prior experience and b) mentality. If two random people start playing Starcraft 2, and one is better, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has more 'talent' (which is such a vague term that it's essentially useless). Maybe one of them has played other RTS games before; or perhaps one of them was a chess player. Perhaps one does some sort of sport competitively that gives him the competitive mentality needed to rise above his friend. There's no 'Starcraft 2 Skill' attribute in our DNA that we're born with - it's simply a combination of everything we've learned this far. Another example: someone who has studied decision theory and game theory will probably improve at a faster rate than your average player.

A lot of people are talking about IQ, but the truth of the matter is that past an IQ of around 120 IQ stops being correlated with success. True success is a combination of factors, but primarily involves a high enough IQ (120+), an environment that allows focused practice, and the constant reach to improve your skills (once again, deliberate practice).


I made a really long post awhile back about this, let me find it. But basically, I believe the average IQ of a Korean pro gamer is around 120, and higher than the average IQ of a foreign sc2 pro:


People say the only difference between foreigners and Korean is training regiment, but I've been thinking about it.

Let's compare NBA in the United States to SC2 in South Korea. Growing up in the respective countries, each nation's youth watches and idolizes the sport and its players. Being an NBA superstar comes with the glamour, women, and money and while, of course, Starcraft pros are far from that, they are still considered celebrities in their country. The aforementioned means that Basketball in the US and Starcraft in South Korea will draw in the most talented players from their countries talent pool.

For basketball important traits are: height, agility, coordination, stamina, etc.

For Starcraft: intelligence, reaction speed, analytic abilities, and etc.

So in the US the nations fastest, tallest, quickest citizens will be playing basketball their entire lives, hoping to become pro.

Does Korea's smartest most analytic citizens play Starcraft? Maybe not the elite level of the talent pool like the NBA, but certainly more so than SC in the US. Polt is in Korea's equivilency to Harvard. Marinekingprime's father said he wanted his son to become a lawyer or doctor. How many potential lawyers or doctors have chosen the life of a pro gamer in Korea instead?

What about the US? Gaming is frowned upon in our society. Those with the traits that would enable them to excel at SC are in College becoming engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. The vast majority of them have never even heard the word starcraft. In America, becoming a progamer is more about opportunity than ability. Loners and nerds in high school, people not yet in the workforce with a lot of free time, and yes there are college students-- but it isn't the same as the Korean SC players.

The average IQ in South Korea is 106, while it's 98 in the states. It might not seem like a lot, but the difference between South Korea and the US is the same as the US and Columbia.

Now, are we willing to admit the IQ of the average Korean pro sc2 player is higher than that of the average foreign pro sc2 player? As illustrated before, Starcraft in Korea taps more into their nation's talent pool than Starcraft outside of it. The average IQ of a Korean progamer is what? Probably 120? and maybe 105 for foreigners. Future Engineers will naturally do better than future construction workers, department store workers, and factory workers because Starcraft appeals more to their skillset than the latter.

What do you guys think?

I would be curious to know about the academic situation of most western pros, very few seem publicly open about it. At least in the US kids have a lot of opportunity if they can graduate with a meaningful degree (meaning not liberal arts). The median salary for entry level computer engineering jobs for US graduates last year was around $70k, I highly doubt any SC2 progamer makes that kind of money from salary, and if there are some that do you could probably count them on both hands. There is very little incentive for bright kids in the US to become progamers so I would guess that your hypothesis that western pros are on average less intelligent than their eastern counterparts is correct.
stupidhydro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States216 Posts
January 29 2012 01:37 GMT
#220
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 29 2012 09:36 ratzp0li wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 09:25 xrapture wrote:
On January 29 2012 06:44 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
On January 29 2012 06:17 Spicy_Curry wrote:
On January 29 2012 05:01 Baum wrote:
On January 29 2012 04:34 Supamang wrote:
Why are people being such dicks in this thread? I've heard the name Desrow but I don't know much about him. Is he a BMer or something?


Also:


On January 28 2012 18:09 Teodice wrote:
For all of you saying he doesn't got the talent to make. Christ, I'm not even a Desrow fan but making statements like "he does not have the talent for it" is just stupid.

In my opinion there is no such thing as talent. Do the holy god up there, blessed be his name, allow some people to become sc2 pros by giving them the talent for it? Don't think so... You become god at something through hard work and understanding of what you're doing. Maybe Desrow will reach that point some day, maybe not.


Desrow is incredibly dedicated and is really working for his dream to come true nd that's something all people should respect.

The idea that "talent" doesn't exist is a load of bullshit. Some people are honestly endowed with genes that allow them to have higher potential than others. Kid with a high IQ will always learn quicker than than a kid with a low IQ. If they work just as hard as each other, are you seriously suggesting that they will progress at the same rate? Im not saying you should just stop trying and blame your failures on not being born right. I just think that its naive to believe that were all created equal and that "as long as you just do your best you can be anything you want to be!"



IQ isn't determined by genes there are a lot more other factors. You can practice macro, you can practice micro, you can refine your buildorders, you can improve your decision making and work on your mindset. Maybe some have to work harder than others but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to compete given the current skill level.



Assuming that natural talent does not exist everyone would start at the same level. We know that is not true.


This is very far from the truth. The main reason any player is better than another is a) prior experience and b) mentality. If two random people start playing Starcraft 2, and one is better, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has more 'talent' (which is such a vague term that it's essentially useless). Maybe one of them has played other RTS games before; or perhaps one of them was a chess player. Perhaps one does some sort of sport competitively that gives him the competitive mentality needed to rise above his friend. There's no 'Starcraft 2 Skill' attribute in our DNA that we're born with - it's simply a combination of everything we've learned this far. Another example: someone who has studied decision theory and game theory will probably improve at a faster rate than your average player.

A lot of people are talking about IQ, but the truth of the matter is that past an IQ of around 120 IQ stops being correlated with success. True success is a combination of factors, but primarily involves a high enough IQ (120+), an environment that allows focused practice, and the constant reach to improve your skills (once again, deliberate practice).


I made a really long post awhile back about this, let me find it. But basically, I believe the average IQ of a Korean pro gamer is around 120, and higher than the average IQ of a foreign sc2 pro:


People say the only difference between foreigners and Korean is training regiment, but I've been thinking about it.

Let's compare NBA in the United States to SC2 in South Korea. Growing up in the respective countries, each nation's youth watches and idolizes the sport and its players. Being an NBA superstar comes with the glamour, women, and money and while, of course, Starcraft pros are far from that, they are still considered celebrities in their country. The aforementioned means that Basketball in the US and Starcraft in South Korea will draw in the most talented players from their countries talent pool.

For basketball important traits are: height, agility, coordination, stamina, etc.

For Starcraft: intelligence, reaction speed, analytic abilities, and etc.

So in the US the nations fastest, tallest, quickest citizens will be playing basketball their entire lives, hoping to become pro.

Does Korea's smartest most analytic citizens play Starcraft? Maybe not the elite level of the talent pool like the NBA, but certainly more so than SC in the US. Polt is in Korea's equivilency to Harvard. Marinekingprime's father said he wanted his son to become a lawyer or doctor. How many potential lawyers or doctors have chosen the life of a pro gamer in Korea instead?

What about the US? Gaming is frowned upon in our society. Those with the traits that would enable them to excel at SC are in College becoming engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. The vast majority of them have never even heard the word starcraft. In America, becoming a progamer is more about opportunity than ability. Loners and nerds in high school, people not yet in the workforce with a lot of free time, and yes there are college students-- but it isn't the same as the Korean SC players.

The average IQ in South Korea is 106, while it's 98 in the states. It might not seem like a lot, but the difference between South Korea and the US is the same as the US and Columbia.

Now, are we willing to admit the IQ of the average Korean pro sc2 player is higher than that of the average foreign pro sc2 player? As illustrated before, Starcraft in Korea taps more into their nation's talent pool than Starcraft outside of it. The average IQ of a Korean progamer is what? Probably 120? and maybe 105 for foreigners. Future Engineers will naturally do better than future construction workers, department store workers, and factory workers because Starcraft appeals more to their skillset than the latter.

What do you guys think?

This is actually pretty fucking good. You should make an OP.


Another example is track and field in jamaica. How can a country of population 100x less come up with just as many if not more elite olympic sprinters as the united states? The answer is that, like the above example, kids in jamaica are seeing track and field heroes from jamaica at an early age and jamaica even holds country wide track and field events so that these kids all over jamaica are scouted for their talent and such. So while the potential in other countries for progamers might be large, if those extremely skilled and intelligent people never start following that path, then other smaller countries that do tap into their potential can compete or be even better than them.
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