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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 06:29 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:
First off, there were no contracts, licenses, committee, or rule book stating a "rule" that Naniwa couldn't probe rush or throw games. Unless there is some documentation stating so then I could understand this harsh punishment but since there's not then they shouldn't be able to punish Naniwa. This is retarded, everybody should reconsider buying a ticket for GSL. This is completely unprofessional. From top to bottom the whole GSL format (No contracts, Rule Books and No Licenses) is just plain erroneous. What SC2 needs is Kespa.
no there is a contract. even if its not in written form when naniwa entered gsl he entered a contractual relationships and the provisions of the korean civil code apply to this contractual relationship what naniwa did is a breach of contractual obligations called 불완전이행 (roughly translates into "faulty performance")
Show the evidence man. We can't go off word of mouth.
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RE: the coca issue
GOMtv didn't need to do anything because slayers handled the whole situation
It was also NOT a gomtv tournament and it DID NOT have a code a spot up for grabs, CONTRARY to what people think (please do your research before you argue this, it was clarified many times that there was no code a spot up for grabs)
Naniwa's team justified his actions and I'm sure that Mr. Chae and GOMtv approached them to see what measures they were going to take
GOMtv wasn't happy with this and took it upon themselves to do something
this is the right choice for a tournament that is looking to gain credibility in the long-term and people need to stop crying
he is still allowed to play but he will have to compete with a lot of koreans to get into the televised matches
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On December 15 2011 06:32 MiXyass wrote:
RE: the coca issue
GOMtv didn't need to do anything because slayers handled the whole situation
It was also NOT a gomtv tournament and it DID NOT have a code a spot up for grabs, CONTRARY to what people think (please do your research before you argue this, it was clarified many times that there was no code a spot up for grabs)
Naniwa's team justified his actions and I'm sure that Mr. Chae and GOMtv approached them to see what measures they were going to take
GOMtv wasn't happy with this and took it upon themselves to do something
this is the right choice for a tournament that is looking to gain credibility in the long-term and people need to stop crying
he is still allowed to play but he will have to compete with a lot of koreans to get into the televised matches
slayers took away coca's code S spot?
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On December 15 2011 06:29 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:21 farnham wrote:On December 15 2011 06:14 Tommylew wrote:
ok ok i think we just need to brush this under the carpet so many wrong things have been postedmaking everything wrong.. some which is true wsome which arent rue and somethat could be true but we dont know lol
All gone so so messy.
At end of day Nani was wrong with what he did, however understanable it is. gomtv are just as much to blame making them play a game where the is nothing on the line and had no impact on anyone qualifying.. Nani still should of done any strategy but what he did(4 gate is apparently acceptable or evena cannon rush). Punishment is harsh in many people eyes.... he still has a chance to qualify and show he should be there anyway(cant see it after going 0-10 vs koreans or is it 1-10)
Good game!!! Lets move on and disccuss somethign else as constant threads however much I back nani are starting to ruin this forum. why didnt naniwa say "you know what. f it. i am not playing a tournament where i theoretically would have to play even if i already got kicked out of the tournament. im not playing blizzard cup" before blizzard cup started and just forfeited his spot ? he knew the rules and took the risk when entering the tournament as the format was known beforehand i dont know what pro gamer goes into any tournament EXPECTING to lose..... Nani had said in his interview with TL and also the statement just released he was upset as he tried hard in the first 3 games and was so close the games and thought hed let himself and his supporters down. God yout think Nestea went in expecting to g 0-3??? NO pro gamer goes into any touanremnt expecting to get hammered.... Hell if Nani and Nesta had both one a game each and perhaps the 2-2 could of took them to tie brake we wouldnt of even been here having this discussion at all...
no he did not expect to loose but he also took the risk to loose
unfortunately the risk of loosing 3 games came into reality for naniwa but at that time he was already contractually obligated to play the game out which he did not do
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Warning or disqualification
- 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
So why wasn't bitbybit banned?
All joking aside, this is kinda harsh. Sucks for Naniwa - I wanted to see him do well.
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On December 15 2011 06:33 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:32 MiXyass wrote:
RE: the coca issue
GOMtv didn't need to do anything because slayers handled the whole situation
It was also NOT a gomtv tournament and it DID NOT have a code a spot up for grabs, CONTRARY to what people think (please do your research before you argue this, it was clarified many times that there was no code a spot up for grabs)
Naniwa's team justified his actions and I'm sure that Mr. Chae and GOMtv approached them to see what measures they were going to take
GOMtv wasn't happy with this and took it upon themselves to do something
this is the right choice for a tournament that is looking to gain credibility in the long-term and people need to stop crying
he is still allowed to play but he will have to compete with a lot of koreans to get into the televised matches
slayers took away coca's code S spot?
SlayerS pulled Coca out of the tournament and put him on the B team with an indefinite ban on playing televised/public until they deemed him ready.
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On December 15 2011 06:23 Saig0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:19 polysciguy wrote:
im curious, how is this different than the cocoa issue? You bring up a great point. While the scenarios are not identical, they both "mailed it in" on games and directly affected the outcome of a match. I feel that GOM TV could have given him a warning or given the more harsh punishment. In the end it was their decision and I agree with it. From his statement, i feel Naniwa has grown of significantly from this event. In the past I was kind of apathetic towards him, but with this maturity that he has shown I look forward to his games in the future.
Coca wasn't forced to forfeit his code S spot, it was a Slayers decision.
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On December 15 2011 06:31 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:29 farnham wrote:On December 15 2011 06:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:
First off, there were no contracts, licenses, committee, or rule book stating a "rule" that Naniwa couldn't probe rush or throw games. Unless there is some documentation stating so then I could understand this harsh punishment but since there's not then they shouldn't be able to punish Naniwa. This is retarded, everybody should reconsider buying a ticket for GSL. This is completely unprofessional. From top to bottom the whole GSL format (No contracts, Rule Books and No Licenses) is just plain erroneous. What SC2 needs is Kespa.
no there is a contract. even if its not in written form when naniwa entered gsl he entered a contractual relationships and the provisions of the korean civil code apply to this contractual relationship what naniwa did is a breach of contractual obligations called 불완전이행 (roughly translates into "faulty performance") Show the evidence man. We can't go off word of mouth.
GOMtv pays naniwa to participate in the tournament
naniwa in exchange offers a service (playing the matches)
I think that in every country in the world, this is easily labelled as a contract
GOMtv can very dissatisfied with the service that was provided by naniwa and can therefore void any future contracts WITH notice(not sure on how korean law works, but this is common law)
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On December 15 2011 06:20 Mepper wrote:
Is there any way I can write some sort of complaint to GOM over this or anything? I'm not even a big Naniwa fan at all, but I'm pretty angered over this, they're acting like complete butthurt man-children.I do feel like there could be a bit of foreigner discrimination going on here. I'm going to request a refund for my ticket too, GOM's not getting my money
I don't understand how they're acting like "butthurt man-children." If you truly want to promote e-sports and put it alongside other widely recognized activities, you have to see that the players do not and should not play just for the money. They're athletes, and put hours and hours of work to do what they do. They give up other aspects of their lives because they want to compete. To do something like a worker rush against a player discredits the opponent. By doing that, Naniwa was basically saying, "Hey Nestea, I don't care that you practiced hours and hours for this tournament. Since neither of us are gonna get the money, I might as well just throw the game and end it quick."
I can understand if a player is shaken after a loss, or a series of losses. It's human and it's acceptable that they don't play as well as they do normally. But if you're a professional, you have to give your best in the next game, whatever that may be, out of RESPECT for the OPPOSING PLAYER. There's nothing more discouraging than an opponent that doesn't care. Nestea won that game, but it was a bittersweet win, because he knew that Naniwa didn't respect him enough to play his best. If you've ever worked really hard for something in your life, and competed, you would know what it feels like to have an opponent who just simply doesn't care.
I have no say in whether or not you should request for a refund, or if you should be angered about this. It's one thing to express your emotions and another to call a group "butthurt man-children", or to imply there's discrimination. Regardless of who the player was, I expect GOM would have dealt with this the same way. Think before you type.
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On December 15 2011 06:33 FoeHamr wrote:Show nested quote +
Warning or disqualification
- 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
So why wasn't bitbybit banned? All joking aside, this is kinda harsh. Sucks for Naniwa - I wanted to see him do well.
It didn't take GOMtv to get bitbybit removed from a tournament; natural process of selection. Same would apply to anyone worker rushing, except in the event a match didn't matter.
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On December 15 2011 06:33 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:29 Tommylew wrote:On December 15 2011 06:21 farnham wrote:On December 15 2011 06:14 Tommylew wrote:
ok ok i think we just need to brush this under the carpet so many wrong things have been postedmaking everything wrong.. some which is true wsome which arent rue and somethat could be true but we dont know lol
All gone so so messy.
At end of day Nani was wrong with what he did, however understanable it is. gomtv are just as much to blame making them play a game where the is nothing on the line and had no impact on anyone qualifying.. Nani still should of done any strategy but what he did(4 gate is apparently acceptable or evena cannon rush). Punishment is harsh in many people eyes.... he still has a chance to qualify and show he should be there anyway(cant see it after going 0-10 vs koreans or is it 1-10)
Good game!!! Lets move on and disccuss somethign else as constant threads however much I back nani are starting to ruin this forum. why didnt naniwa say "you know what. f it. i am not playing a tournament where i theoretically would have to play even if i already got kicked out of the tournament. im not playing blizzard cup" before blizzard cup started and just forfeited his spot ? he knew the rules and took the risk when entering the tournament as the format was known beforehand i dont know what pro gamer goes into any tournament EXPECTING to lose..... Nani had said in his interview with TL and also the statement just released he was upset as he tried hard in the first 3 games and was so close the games and thought hed let himself and his supporters down. God yout think Nestea went in expecting to g 0-3??? NO pro gamer goes into any touanremnt expecting to get hammered.... Hell if Nani and Nesta had both one a game each and perhaps the 2-2 could of took them to tie brake we wouldnt of even been here having this discussion at all... no he did not expect to loose but he also took the risk to loose unfortunately the risk of loosing 3 games came into reality for naniwa but at that time he was already contractually obligated to play the game out which he did not do
did Nani have a contract though? did u know that? please post his contract as you seem to know so much... for all we know Nani could of thought the rules were same as up and down and once your out you no longer play.Then afterwards found out he did but was too upset and peeved and then did what he did... as in fact he did play (badly byut still played) its not like he walked off and dint com,e back and refused to actually play. So in one way he didnt actually doanything wrong or are we going to punish all poorly executed strategeis(yes i know he attack moved and removed ahnds from keyboard)
but same thing.. I also didnt want to watch two abusive terran rushes vs Nanni eithier... so I didnt get what I wanted eithier... same old same old terran players in the GSL... so please.
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On December 15 2011 06:33 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:32 MiXyass wrote:
RE: the coca issue
GOMtv didn't need to do anything because slayers handled the whole situation
It was also NOT a gomtv tournament and it DID NOT have a code a spot up for grabs, CONTRARY to what people think (please do your research before you argue this, it was clarified many times that there was no code a spot up for grabs)
Naniwa's team justified his actions and I'm sure that Mr. Chae and GOMtv approached them to see what measures they were going to take
GOMtv wasn't happy with this and took it upon themselves to do something
this is the right choice for a tournament that is looking to gain credibility in the long-term and people need to stop crying
he is still allowed to play but he will have to compete with a lot of koreans to get into the televised matches
slayers took away coca's code S spot?
Nobody knows exactly HOW it happened
but everybody speculates that slayers made coca choose
a) to either forfeit his code s spot (among other repercussions)
b) or to get the boot from slayers
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Mr. Chae just lost a bit of credibility for me.
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On December 15 2011 06:28 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:22 IPA wrote:On December 15 2011 06:20 dacimvrl wrote:On December 15 2011 06:15 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 06:06 dacimvrl wrote:
What about the time on IGN Team Arena Challenge when Dignitas forfeited after going 0-4 against SlayerS. Did anyone bitch at Dignitas? Should IGN/IPL ban Dignitas? LoL.
Dignitas actually had more of a chance than Naniwa did..
Such haters/hypocrites....
Let's all trash Dignitas!! No, but Naniwa did it, we have to hate him, Dignitas is okay.
Ppl should just man up and stop resorting to this you hurt my feelings; therefore, i will bend the rules to hurt you bs. It's elementary at best. A warning would have sufficed.
So much LuLz.. Er actually, there were quite a lotta people calling for Dignitas to answer for what they did. This was true of Millenium too. And people were calling for both teams to not be invited back for future games (IPL invited one of them back anyways I think). Why wasn't there a bigger outcry? Have you seen those live report threads? There aren't that many people in them anyways. That only proves that IGN/IPL guys are mature and more fair, cuz they didn't resort to the you hurt my feelings; therefore, i will bend the rules to hurt you bs. It doesn't prove that at all. -_- How does it not? Gotta love these one line replies LuLz. It happened with Millenium. IGN/IPL was grown up about it and didn't just outright ban Millenium from the tournament. It happened with Naniwa. GOM says, you hurt my feelings by disrespecting me, so i hurt you too, you no welcome GSL code S!! Pretty obvious IGN/IPL are more mature and just.
You're taking "mature" and "just" in an entirely subjective manner, that's my point. In my opinion, GOM is being mature and just by taking action against an obnoxious kid. You wouldn't agree. I disagreed with your sweeping subjective generalization, nothing more.
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Wow, really? Because Naniwa played a crappy game they give the Code S seed to IdrA and Sen... Really Mr. Chae... You don't take something a player earned just because he threw a game in a bad day.
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Wow, this thread is even longer than the LR thread.
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On December 15 2011 06:40 TemplarCo. wrote:
Wow, really? Because Naniwa played a crappy game they give the Code S seed to IdrA and Sen... Really Mr. Chae... You don't take something a player earned just because he threw a game in a bad day.
Yes, you do.
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Mr. Chae just lost a bit of credibility for me.
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On December 15 2011 06:37 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:33 farnham wrote:On December 15 2011 06:29 Tommylew wrote:On December 15 2011 06:21 farnham wrote:On December 15 2011 06:14 Tommylew wrote:
ok ok i think we just need to brush this under the carpet so many wrong things have been postedmaking everything wrong.. some which is true wsome which arent rue and somethat could be true but we dont know lol
All gone so so messy.
At end of day Nani was wrong with what he did, however understanable it is. gomtv are just as much to blame making them play a game where the is nothing on the line and had no impact on anyone qualifying.. Nani still should of done any strategy but what he did(4 gate is apparently acceptable or evena cannon rush). Punishment is harsh in many people eyes.... he still has a chance to qualify and show he should be there anyway(cant see it after going 0-10 vs koreans or is it 1-10)
Good game!!! Lets move on and disccuss somethign else as constant threads however much I back nani are starting to ruin this forum. why didnt naniwa say "you know what. f it. i am not playing a tournament where i theoretically would have to play even if i already got kicked out of the tournament. im not playing blizzard cup" before blizzard cup started and just forfeited his spot ? he knew the rules and took the risk when entering the tournament as the format was known beforehand i dont know what pro gamer goes into any tournament EXPECTING to lose..... Nani had said in his interview with TL and also the statement just released he was upset as he tried hard in the first 3 games and was so close the games and thought hed let himself and his supporters down. God yout think Nestea went in expecting to g 0-3??? NO pro gamer goes into any touanremnt expecting to get hammered.... Hell if Nani and Nesta had both one a game each and perhaps the 2-2 could of took them to tie brake we wouldnt of even been here having this discussion at all... no he did not expect to loose but he also took the risk to loose unfortunately the risk of loosing 3 games came into reality for naniwa but at that time he was already contractually obligated to play the game out which he did not do did Nani have a contract though? did u know that? please post his contract as you seem to know so much... for all we know Nani could of thought the rules were same as up and down and once your out you no longer play.Then afterwards found out he did but was too upset and peeved and then did what he did... as in fact he did play (badly byut still played) its not like he walked off and dint com,e back and refused to actually play. So in one way he didnt actually doanything wrong or are we going to punish all poorly executed strategeis(yes i know he attack moved and removed ahnds from keyboard)
as posted before a contract does NOT need to be in writing in order to be enforced
it is 100% clear to anybody with a brain that there is a LEGALLY bounding contract between GOMtv and Naniwa
GOMtv is PAYING naniwa for his SERVICE
GOMtv gives naniwa 900 in exchange for some professional games
although we don't know what the terms of the contract are
after a legally bounding contract is in place
the party paying for the service can be dissatisfied with the outcome and can therefore void any future contracts with the other party
THIS IS WHY GOMtv could NOT refuse to pay naniwa the $900 because naniwa already fulfilled his duty as the party providing the service. But gomtv can simply say 'your service is crap, any contract that we had in the FUTURE is now voided'
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On December 15 2011 06:40 TemplarCo. wrote:
Wow, really? Because Naniwa played a crappy game they give the Code S seed to IdrA and Sen... Really Mr. Chae... You don't take something a player earned just because he threw a game in a bad day.
Umm actually you do... it wasn't him just playing a bad game, it was him literally not playing and throwing said game. Gomtv has released an official statement that I think clears everything up pretty nicely about their decision.
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