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On November 21 2011 07:14 LiaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 07:08 furymonkey wrote:
Whoa this is disgusting. Even there is mis-communication between naniwa and mlg staff, he still shouldn't allow to look at build order or even the replay at all. Such info wouldn't even be available to him in the first place even the map is in cross position. He is just pissed that he can't do his build and trying to make his action justified, which it isn't. When is people gonna get the following: You can see the build order in the score screen. It doesn't matter if Naniwa watched the replay. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287315
The thing about this that bothers me primarily is that when they initially started the game naniwa didn't do anything until MLG admins stopped the game so he could go to the bathroom. When he came back he was able to see what Nestea had planned and was executing for that map. So yeah it doesn't really matter whether he got the info from the replay or the score screen, but the fact that he was able to force the game to restart and get some vital info on the mindset of his opponent at the same time is what matters in this situation. With hindsight, admins should have gone with a new map or they shouldn't have stopped the initial game in the first place. Why reward a player that is acting like a 10 year old if you want to create a professional environment?
edit: I see Naniwa is left handed XD
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On November 21 2011 07:38 Flyingdutchman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 07:14 LiaT wrote:On November 21 2011 07:08 furymonkey wrote:
Whoa this is disgusting. Even there is mis-communication between naniwa and mlg staff, he still shouldn't allow to look at build order or even the replay at all. Such info wouldn't even be available to him in the first place even the map is in cross position. He is just pissed that he can't do his build and trying to make his action justified, which it isn't. When is people gonna get the following: You can see the build order in the score screen. It doesn't matter if Naniwa watched the replay. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287315 The thing about this that bothers me primarily is that when they initially started the game naniwa didn't do anything until MLG admins stopped the game so he could go to the bathroom. When he came back he was able to see what Nestea had planned and was executing for that map. So yeah it doesn't really matter whether he got the info from the replay or the score screen, but the fact that he was able to force the game to restart and get some vital info on the mindset of his opponent at the same time is what matters in this situation. With hindsight, admins should have gone with a new map or they shouldn't have stopped the initial game in the first place. Why reward a player that is acting like a 10 year old if you want to create a professional environment? edit: I see Naniwa is left handed XD
Funny how people talk about 'creating a 'professional environment' and at the same time needlessly trash one of the best players in the game for doing something within the rules that happens all the time at the tournament, when he is really "SAVING ESPORTS(tm)" by showing foreigners can compete with the top Koreans like Nestea and MVP. People claim to want a "professional environment" then they act like complete drama queens over minor situation that didn't even affect the game. Why reward the watchers with high level play when they're going to act like 10 year olds pointing fingers and saying "you're cheating!" when he was fully within the rules, then going on to say "well it was unethical" for some completely arbitrary reasons.
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On November 21 2011 07:49 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 07:38 Flyingdutchman wrote:On November 21 2011 07:14 LiaT wrote:On November 21 2011 07:08 furymonkey wrote:
Whoa this is disgusting. Even there is mis-communication between naniwa and mlg staff, he still shouldn't allow to look at build order or even the replay at all. Such info wouldn't even be available to him in the first place even the map is in cross position. He is just pissed that he can't do his build and trying to make his action justified, which it isn't. When is people gonna get the following: You can see the build order in the score screen. It doesn't matter if Naniwa watched the replay. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287315 The thing about this that bothers me primarily is that when they initially started the game naniwa didn't do anything until MLG admins stopped the game so he could go to the bathroom. When he came back he was able to see what Nestea had planned and was executing for that map. So yeah it doesn't really matter whether he got the info from the replay or the score screen, but the fact that he was able to force the game to restart and get some vital info on the mindset of his opponent at the same time is what matters in this situation. With hindsight, admins should have gone with a new map or they shouldn't have stopped the initial game in the first place. Why reward a player that is acting like a 10 year old if you want to create a professional environment? edit: I see Naniwa is left handed XD Funny how people talk about 'creating a 'professional environment' and at the same time needlessly trash one of the best players in the game for doing something within the rules that happens all the time at the tournament, when he is really "SAVING ESPORTS(tm)" by showing foreigners can compete with the top Koreans like Nestea and MVP. People claim to want a "professional environment" then they act like complete drama queens over minor situation that didn't even affect the game. Why reward the watchers with high level play when they're going to act like 10 year olds pointing fingers and saying "you're cheating!" when he was fully within the rules.
I have never seen a player not participate in a game once it started, once they go into the booth they are focused on the game (and they don't need an admin asking them if they might need to go to the bathroom first). I haven't read the MLG rulebook myself but is there something in there about what protocol is once the game start countdown starts? How about a player pausing a game himself? In SC1 that was an autoloss I believe unless they had technical difficulties. In my initial post I did not pay any attention to the pausing thing although in the greater scheme of things with the previous incident of not even playing and getting the match restarted (and also letting your opponent and thousands of people wait for 30 minutes) it makes it really hard for me to say that I am glad with the way a foreigner is competing with a korean.
I'm also not sure why you reacted in such a manner to my post?
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So if Leenock kills DRG, then Nani is Code S right?
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I think people are way too used to the Korean honour system where there is practically nothing interesting going on between players. As soon as there is anything remotely resembling drama going on, people jump on it because it's so rare in the Korean scene. I agree it's nice to have some personalities in eSports. When you see the Korean players in these foreign tournaments they actually let loose a little and talk a little bit of (respectful and joking) trash.
Look at MVP and Nestea at Blizzcon, joking around with some trash talk. You don't see that stuff at GSL.
Naniwa made a few mistakes but he apologised and it's over. Looking at his play vs all zergs right now you can clearly see he deserved to beat Nestea. He is just playing at another level right now (and Nestea is in somewhat of a slump right now).
Can't see Naniwa losing this tournament. Leenock vs Naniwa would be interesting to see since he just totally destroyed DRG.
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On November 21 2011 08:25 bellyfrog wrote:
I think people are way too used to the Korean honour system where there is practically nothing interesting going on between players. As soon as there is anything remotely resembling drama going on, people jump on it because it's so rare in the Korean scene. I agree it's nice to have some personalities in eSports. When you see the Korean players in these foreign tournaments they actually let loose a little and talk a little bit of (respectful and joking) trash.
Look at MVP and Nestea at Blizzcon, joking around with some trash talk. You don't see that stuff at GSL.
Naniwa made a few mistakes but he apologised and it's over. Looking at his play vs all zergs right now you can clearly see he deserved to beat Nestea. He is just playing at another level right now (and Nestea is in somewhat of a slump right now).
Can't see Naniwa losing this tournament. Leenock vs Naniwa would be interesting to see since he just totally destroyed DRG.
Who says they don't? You haven't been watching GSL finals?
And you bracketed yourself, respectful and joking. What Naniwa did doesn't looks respectful in many people's eye, especially after he pulled the restart game stunt, acting childish so admin had to restart. If he won straight up without those little hiccup, people wouldn't be worked up.
I also hope leenock able to pull through.
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On November 21 2011 08:27 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 08:25 bellyfrog wrote:
I think people are way too used to the Korean honour system where there is practically nothing interesting going on between players. As soon as there is anything remotely resembling drama going on, people jump on it because it's so rare in the Korean scene. I agree it's nice to have some personalities in eSports. When you see the Korean players in these foreign tournaments they actually let loose a little and talk a little bit of (respectful and joking) trash.
Look at MVP and Nestea at Blizzcon, joking around with some trash talk. You don't see that stuff at GSL.
Naniwa made a few mistakes but he apologised and it's over. Looking at his play vs all zergs right now you can clearly see he deserved to beat Nestea. He is just playing at another level right now (and Nestea is in somewhat of a slump right now).
Can't see Naniwa losing this tournament. Leenock vs Naniwa would be interesting to see since he just totally destroyed DRG. Who says they don't? You haven't been watching GSL finals? And you bracketed yourself, respectful and joking. What Naniwa did doesn't looks respectful in many people's eye, especially after he pulled the restart game stunt, acting childish so admin had to restart. If he won straight up without those little hiccup, people wouldn't be worked up. I also hope leenock able to pull through.
I didn't say Naniwa's actions were respectful and joking though, I don't think it was particularly respectful but it was joking. The thumbs down was obviously a spur of the moment thing, he was pumped and since Nestea said he would destroy Naniwa it was a reaction to that.
Well I've never seen any trash talk in GSL to be honest although I don't watch all the interviews.
Although the situation is unusual it's really quite smart on Naniwas part to get into Nesteas head and unsettle him during the match, not saying I condone it but it was a good move, without breaking any rules.
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On November 21 2011 08:44 bellyfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 08:27 furymonkey wrote:On November 21 2011 08:25 bellyfrog wrote:
I think people are way too used to the Korean honour system where there is practically nothing interesting going on between players. As soon as there is anything remotely resembling drama going on, people jump on it because it's so rare in the Korean scene. I agree it's nice to have some personalities in eSports. When you see the Korean players in these foreign tournaments they actually let loose a little and talk a little bit of (respectful and joking) trash.
Look at MVP and Nestea at Blizzcon, joking around with some trash talk. You don't see that stuff at GSL.
Naniwa made a few mistakes but he apologised and it's over. Looking at his play vs all zergs right now you can clearly see he deserved to beat Nestea. He is just playing at another level right now (and Nestea is in somewhat of a slump right now).
Can't see Naniwa losing this tournament. Leenock vs Naniwa would be interesting to see since he just totally destroyed DRG. Who says they don't? You haven't been watching GSL finals? And you bracketed yourself, respectful and joking. What Naniwa did doesn't looks respectful in many people's eye, especially after he pulled the restart game stunt, acting childish so admin had to restart. If he won straight up without those little hiccup, people wouldn't be worked up. I also hope leenock able to pull through. I didn't say Naniwa's actions were respectful and joking though, I don't think it was particularly respectful but it was joking. The thumbs down was obviously a spur of the moment thing, he was pumped and since Nestea said he would destroy Naniwa it was a reaction to that. Well I've never seen any trash talk in GSL to be honest although I don't watch all the interviews. Although the situation is unusual it's really quite smart on Naniwas part to get into Nesteas head and unsettle him during the match, not saying I condone it but it was a good move, without breaking any rules.
I do agree the thumbs down isn't harmful, but that isn't what Nestea and others are upset about.
The problem is the way he unsettle him during the match like you pointed out. Yes he didn't broke any rules, but since I heard people said MLG is planning to fix it, it means it's bad enough that they going to stop it.
Just because the current rules didn't cover it, doesn't meant his action is justified, he is just isn't held accountable. That is why many people spoke out.
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Well if Leenock wins this then on the bright side, that gives Nani code S right then and there. On the not to bright side, Nani doesn't get a 2-0 advantage going into the series
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On November 21 2011 08:54 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 08:44 bellyfrog wrote:On November 21 2011 08:27 furymonkey wrote:On November 21 2011 08:25 bellyfrog wrote:
I think people are way too used to the Korean honour system where there is practically nothing interesting going on between players. As soon as there is anything remotely resembling drama going on, people jump on it because it's so rare in the Korean scene. I agree it's nice to have some personalities in eSports. When you see the Korean players in these foreign tournaments they actually let loose a little and talk a little bit of (respectful and joking) trash.
Look at MVP and Nestea at Blizzcon, joking around with some trash talk. You don't see that stuff at GSL.
Naniwa made a few mistakes but he apologised and it's over. Looking at his play vs all zergs right now you can clearly see he deserved to beat Nestea. He is just playing at another level right now (and Nestea is in somewhat of a slump right now).
Can't see Naniwa losing this tournament. Leenock vs Naniwa would be interesting to see since he just totally destroyed DRG. Who says they don't? You haven't been watching GSL finals? And you bracketed yourself, respectful and joking. What Naniwa did doesn't looks respectful in many people's eye, especially after he pulled the restart game stunt, acting childish so admin had to restart. If he won straight up without those little hiccup, people wouldn't be worked up. I also hope leenock able to pull through. I didn't say Naniwa's actions were respectful and joking though, I don't think it was particularly respectful but it was joking. The thumbs down was obviously a spur of the moment thing, he was pumped and since Nestea said he would destroy Naniwa it was a reaction to that. Well I've never seen any trash talk in GSL to be honest although I don't watch all the interviews. Although the situation is unusual it's really quite smart on Naniwas part to get into Nesteas head and unsettle him during the match, not saying I condone it but it was a good move, without breaking any rules. I do agree the thumbs down isn't harmful, but that isn't what Nestea and others are upset about. The problem is the way he unsettle him during the match like you pointed out. Yes he didn't broke any rules, but since I heard people said MLG is planning to fix it, it means it's bad enough that they going to stop it. Just because the current rules didn't cover it, doesn't meant his action is justified, he is just isn't held accountable. That is why many people spoke out.
You're right and I can understand why people get in a bit of an uproar over stuff like this but like I said I think it's a shame that people think this kind of behaviour ruins events. To me it enhances them and makes things a lot more interesting. In all professional sports there is an element of trash talk, getting in your opponents head and "metagaming". However as soon as that crosses the threshhold of "bad manners" in eSports people start to get their panties in a twist.
Bottom line IMO is Naniwa totally deserved his success here based purely off his spectacular play, I've not seen a toss dominate so hard for a long time and I really hope he gets his Code S spot and fingers crossed this level of play will carry over.
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vs Leenock is going to vs REALLY hard. If Naniwa can win this he gets major props, but I think Leenock is the favourite.
Nani gets code S though! Amazing!
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Why are there no TLDR's in the OP when it has like 4 pages of content -.-
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On November 21 2011 09:25 esaul17 wrote:
vs Leenock is going to vs REALLY hard. If Naniwa can win this he gets major props, but I think Leenock is the favourite.
Nani gets code S though! Amazing!
I dunno Naniwa is just destroying zergs right now. I don't think anyone can beat him once he gets onto 2 bases and gets his army up, he just has such amazing control. I'd be really surprised if Leenock can take it to be honest but we'll see. I was hoping for Leenock since Nani already demolished every other zerg in the tournament.
It will be cool to see what Leenock has up his sleeve to deal with this FE play. I'm interested if Leenock will try some early roach pressure because there's not many other options for truly damaging the early expand of toss and once that expand is up it feels like the protoss deathball is just too good with Naniwa's incredible micro.
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After reading both sides, I think 2 things: Regame or Naniwa should have received a loss.
Whether it was intentional or not, Naniwa gained an unfair advantage equivalent to a "MH" use for the first 2 minutes. If I had someone watch the game, I then said pause please... and had a spectator come up and say... no pool yet...
HUGE advantage for me.
Now whether this happened or not is not the point and you are missing the truth. I don't care if Naniwa is playing the best he has ever done, he received an unfair advantage during the game. Just like the Patriots and "spygate," the team was fined for basically "cheating" in a form or fashion. If he wins MLG Providence, some will remember this as the MLG where Naniwa cheated... others will remember it as the day Foreigners said we are here, and some will just remember the ZvZ's and no Terrans.
I will probably remember this as Naniwa cheated... and then 3 months when I look at all the MLG events I will probably have forgotten how Naniwa won other than how good he was. That being said, this is almost as bad as a missed call by a ref in a World Series game, World Cup game, or any other major event.
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Everyone needs to remember
These are not proffessional actors. They are gamers
They know very little about on stage conduct. They are regular guys like us who get caught up in the moment, wanting to show off. respect them for that.
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On November 21 2011 09:36 catabowl wrote:
After reading both sides, I think 2 things: Regame or Naniwa should have received a loss.
Whether it was intentional or not, Naniwa gained an unfair advantage equivalent to a "MH" use for the first 2 minutes. If I had someone watch the game, I then said pause please... and had a spectator come up and say... no pool yet...
HUGE advantage for me.
Now whether this happened or not is not the point and you are missing the truth. I don't care if Naniwa is playing the best he has ever done, he received an unfair advantage during the game. Just like the Patriots and "spygate," the team was fined for basically "cheating" in a form or fashion. If he wins MLG Providence, some will remember this as the MLG where Naniwa cheated... others will remember it as the day Foreigners said we are here, and some will just remember the ZvZ's and no Terrans.
I will probably remember this as Naniwa cheated... and then 3 months when I look at all the MLG events I will probably have forgotten how Naniwa won other than how good he was. That being said, this is almost as bad as a missed call by a ref in a World Series game, World Cup game, or any other major event.
Such a long post for nothing... He did not get any information from his coach because there was an mlg admin with the coach...
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On November 21 2011 09:36 catabowl wrote:
After reading both sides, I think 2 things: Regame or Naniwa should have received a loss.
Whether it was intentional or not, Naniwa gained an unfair advantage equivalent to a "MH" use for the first 2 minutes. If I had someone watch the game, I then said pause please... and had a spectator come up and say... no pool yet...
HUGE advantage for me.
Now whether this happened or not is not the point and you are missing the truth. I don't care if Naniwa is playing the best he has ever done, he received an unfair advantage during the game. Just like the Patriots and "spygate," the team was fined for basically "cheating" in a form or fashion. If he wins MLG Providence, some will remember this as the MLG where Naniwa cheated... others will remember it as the day Foreigners said we are here, and some will just remember the ZvZ's and no Terrans.
I will probably remember this as Naniwa cheated... and then 3 months when I look at all the MLG events I will probably have forgotten how Naniwa won other than how good he was. That being said, this is almost as bad as a missed call by a ref in a World Series game, World Cup game, or any other major event.
Do your homework, son.
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United States404 Posts
On November 21 2011 09:44 Mashmed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 09:36 catabowl wrote:
After reading both sides, I think 2 things: Regame or Naniwa should have received a loss.
Whether it was intentional or not, Naniwa gained an unfair advantage equivalent to a "MH" use for the first 2 minutes. If I had someone watch the game, I then said pause please... and had a spectator come up and say... no pool yet...
HUGE advantage for me.
Now whether this happened or not is not the point and you are missing the truth. I don't care if Naniwa is playing the best he has ever done, he received an unfair advantage during the game. Just like the Patriots and "spygate," the team was fined for basically "cheating" in a form or fashion. If he wins MLG Providence, some will remember this as the MLG where Naniwa cheated... others will remember it as the day Foreigners said we are here, and some will just remember the ZvZ's and no Terrans.
I will probably remember this as Naniwa cheated... and then 3 months when I look at all the MLG events I will probably have forgotten how Naniwa won other than how good he was. That being said, this is almost as bad as a missed call by a ref in a World Series game, World Cup game, or any other major event. Such a long post for nothing... He did not get any information from his coach because there was an mlg admin with the coach...
but what language were nani and his coach using?
Cause I don't think I'd purposely use a non-native language to communicate if i didn't have to. So who knows what was communicated for sure. Unless the admin know's nani's native lang.
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On November 21 2011 10:01 metbull wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 09:44 Mashmed wrote:On November 21 2011 09:36 catabowl wrote:
After reading both sides, I think 2 things: Regame or Naniwa should have received a loss.
Whether it was intentional or not, Naniwa gained an unfair advantage equivalent to a "MH" use for the first 2 minutes. If I had someone watch the game, I then said pause please... and had a spectator come up and say... no pool yet...
HUGE advantage for me.
Now whether this happened or not is not the point and you are missing the truth. I don't care if Naniwa is playing the best he has ever done, he received an unfair advantage during the game. Just like the Patriots and "spygate," the team was fined for basically "cheating" in a form or fashion. If he wins MLG Providence, some will remember this as the MLG where Naniwa cheated... others will remember it as the day Foreigners said we are here, and some will just remember the ZvZ's and no Terrans.
I will probably remember this as Naniwa cheated... and then 3 months when I look at all the MLG events I will probably have forgotten how Naniwa won other than how good he was. That being said, this is almost as bad as a missed call by a ref in a World Series game, World Cup game, or any other major event. Such a long post for nothing... He did not get any information from his coach because there was an mlg admin with the coach... but what language were nani and his coach using? Cause I don't think I'd purposely use a non-native language to communicate if i didn't have to. So who knows what was communicated for sure. Unless the admin know's nani's native lang.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, has officially become a conspiracy theory.
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EPT
