|
On September 11 2011 22:55 pippo_jedi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 22:41 DaCruise wrote:On September 11 2011 22:36 ArcticRaven wrote:
It's good to bring back events like that to people's memory. Sure it is. Just dont use the 10 year anniversary of what happened in the US as an excuse for doing it..... I didn't: it's not anybody fault if they both happened the 11th of september. just that, plain and simple. If you want to know: at my university my student's group used to hang a poster about Chile every year, so, personally, it's not something i do this year for the first time. it's the first time i do on TL because i signed up here in the past year or so... have a good day 
First, go to cnn.com, and read the front page headline.
It's not disrespectful, as your OP suggests, to compare the content of this thread with the 9/11 terrorist attack -- it's inevitable. And it certainly doesn't make anyone an "asshole," as you put it, for making that utterly minuscule leap in logic.
If your intent really is to engender memories of both tragic events' victims, you would be well-advised to remove the underlying passive-aggression towards the US 9/11 events in the first post, and instead specifically request that people take the time to remember the victims of both. Otherwise, this thread is just an offensive display to both the Chilean 9/11 coup d'état and the US 9/11 terrorist attacks.
|
So, people can't post on 9/11 about stuff that happened in 9/11 and isn't the WTC attacks? The chilean episode is a very key moment of South American history. It should be remembered, and the US participation was very clear and decisive
|
I wouldn't take this as bad as I am if it wasn't posted by someone from Italy... I just hope he's just a Chilean in Italy and i'm a fool.
|
On September 11 2011 22:55 pippo_jedi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 22:39 zezamer wrote:
"Of these approximately 40,000 to 50,000 perfunctory arrests, several hundred individuals would later be detained, questioned, tortured, and in some cases murdered"
How are you getting your 30000 death? I took that from the wiki page you linked
I said: according to some sources, i don't know which ones are exact. The problem is, as you may know, that of "disappeared" (desaparecidos): it is difficult to have good estimation af the deaths of people who cannot be found. Of course i'm referring to the deaths caused not only in the days of the coup by itself, but to the deaths following it too.
The following:
"The Valech Report (officially The National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture Report) was a study that detailed abuses committed in Chile between 1973 and 1990 by agents of Augusto Pinochet's military regime"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valech_Report
"The commission found that 38,254 people had been imprisoned for political reasons and that most had been tortured. It also found that 30 people had been executed or "disappeared"; that is in addition to those recorded by the earlier Rettig Report."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rettig_Report
"The Rettig Report, officially The National Commission for Truth and Reconciliation Report, is a 1991 report by a commission designated by then President Patricio Aylwin (from the Concertación) encompassing human rights abuses resulting in death or disappearance that occurred in Chile during the years of military rule under Augusto Pinochet, which began on September 11, 1973 and ended on March 11, 1990"
"The report determined that 2,279 persons were killed for political reasons. This figure included 957 disappeared after arrest and 164 "victims of political violence", a figure that included police officers and others killed by left-wing extremists.[1](p1122)
In 641 cases, the commission could not conclusively determine that the person was killed for political reasons. It found 508 cases that were beyond its mandate, and that in 449 cases, no information beyond the name of a disappeared person could be determined"
So total around 3000 death and 40000 tortured, proved by reports, your 30000 + 600000 is just false.
Your also making it sound like US had a big impact on this, but the truth is.
" The CIA inserted covert operatives in Chile, in order to prevent a Marxist government from arising, and conducted propaganda operations which were designed to push the Chilean president Eduardo Frei to support "a military coup which would prevent Allende from taking office on the 3rd of November."[27][28] While U.S. government hostility to the Allende government is unquestioned, the nature of the U.S. role in the coup is highly controversial. Claims of the direct US involvement in the coup have not been supported by publicly available documentary evidence"
Your just trying to make US like some monster with no evidence, maybe to make "9/11" look justified or something, I don't really understand what you're trying to achieve.
|
Same day, two events, two threads.
It's not hard to keep them separate :\
|
There's a whole memorial thing going on every year for the WTC. When it will be 38 years after these events, people will still do what they do today. the OP has every right to post a thread to commemorate the death of 3000 Chileans. 3000 people dying are still people no matter where they come from and just because the media decides to cover 9/11(WTC) a lot, doesnt mean everything else in the world has to be ignored.
|
I found http://ziomania.com/articles2011/03/50.htm on google which says the official number of deaths is roughly 3000, but there are 'credible estimates' that the real number is between three and ten times as much. So potentially there have been 30k killed, although I guess it'd be fairer to say between 10 and 30k.
In any case, I suppose this topic is controversial, but I hope people will realize that there have been a lot more massacres and mass killings than just 9/11 and it's not a bad thing to also remember the less-known ones.
|
On September 11 2011 23:33 MandoRelease wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 23:16 getSome[703] wrote:On September 11 2011 23:10 Twoinches wrote:On September 11 2011 23:08 BlackJack wrote:
It's called etiquette. If someone tells you a certain day is the anniversary where there mother passed away you don't say "So what, millions of people die everyday. You are not the center of the universe!" but if both our mothers died on the exact same day you cant be like "dont talk about your moms death today, Mine died today assholes" The purpose of this thread is solely to deride and mock the U.S. by bringing up a past misdeed that happens to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11. This isn't about honoring and respecting victims of the Chilean rebellion - just look at the OP's post history. It looks like he specifically started posting to try to stir up some drama. This is fucking appalling. That's not really open-minded. Please calm down, and do not derail the thread.
If OP didn't want this thread to be derailed then he shouldn't have ignored the elephant in the room and then instructed everyone not to talk about the elephant in the room.
|
On September 11 2011 23:27 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 23:20 sekritzzz wrote:On September 11 2011 23:16 getSome[703] wrote:On September 11 2011 23:10 Twoinches wrote:On September 11 2011 23:08 BlackJack wrote:
It's called etiquette. If someone tells you a certain day is the anniversary where there mother passed away you don't say "So what, millions of people die everyday. You are not the center of the universe!" but if both our mothers died on the exact same day you cant be like "dont talk about your moms death today, Mine died today assholes" The purpose of this thread is solely to deride and mock the U.S. by bringing up a past misdeed that happens to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11. This isn't about honoring and respecting victims of the Chilean rebellion - just look at the OP's post history. It looks like he specifically started posting to try to stir up some drama. This is fucking appalling. Ok so he joined on March 27th, tried to act like a sc2 player by posting about void rays and a "Yellow" thread , just so he can make a thread 6 months later on sept.11th to ridicule the fall of the twin towers? If anything his past history contradicts your reasoning? If you want to ignore what the OP is so obviously doing, that's fine. A goat with half a brain would be able to identify that he's just taking a giant shit on the U.S. by highlighting their involvement and exaggerating the death toll. Maybe he didn't join TL with this intention but he's sure getting away with it now.
Look, I am not denying the fact that this could be a troll post but there simply is no evidence.
The significance of this event to Chileans/Latin Americans is probably monstrous. I respect their dead and now am aware of their tragedy, just like I respect the dead from the twin towers and their tragedy. People need to either pay their respects or leave in peace.
|
Well it's obvious why you put this thread up. It's actually disrespectful to both groups of victims. The 9/11 thread made you mad so you USE this event in history to ATTEMPT to make a point. Grow up.
|
On September 11 2011 23:45 sekritzzz wrote:
Look, I am not denying the fact that this could be a troll post but there simply is no evidence.
I just prove it above ^
|
I think people should stop whining. Two tragic things happened, yes. Why do we have to compete? 9/11 was the first time we were attacked on our own soil, but in Chile thousands and thousands more people died.
I think that to compare the two is ridiculous. Sympathize with each other and stop trying o compete who's is more significant.
|
I hate to be "that guy", but there is a lot of misinformation in the OP... Considering this thread is only about the 9/11 coup d'état, adding an extra 0 to the death tole is bit ridiculous. It also says that the military imprisoned ~40,000 vs 600,000.
Not trying to devalue this or anything, we just need to get the facts straight.
This thread turned into a shitfest pretty quickly.
|
On September 11 2011 23:51 hotbreakfest wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but there is a lot of misinformation in the OP... Considering this thread is only about the 9/11 coup d'état, adding an extra 0 to the death tole is bit ridiculous. It also says that the military imprisoned ~40,000 vs 600,000.
Not trying to devalue this or anything, we just need to get the facts straight.
This thread turned into a shitfest pretty quickly.
I hate to say it but I'm pretty sure that was exactly the OP's intention.
|
Instead of turning this into a 30 page flame fest let's just calm down for a second. It doesn't matter if this was a troll or not. I can understand many feel very emotional about this day but please just instead of flaming on forums spend this day doing what really matters.
Honoring the dead, both Chilean and American.
|
|
|
My lack of history is rather frightening. I didn't even realise something of this magnitude happened in Chile. Saddening how cruel we as a people are towards each other ;(
|
On September 11 2011 23:53 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 23:51 hotbreakfest wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but there is a lot of misinformation in the OP... Considering this thread is only about the 9/11 coup d'état, adding an extra 0 to the death tole is bit ridiculous. It also says that the military imprisoned ~40,000 vs 600,000.
Not trying to devalue this or anything, we just need to get the facts straight.
This thread turned into a shitfest pretty quickly. I hate to say it but I'm pretty sure that was exactly the OP's intention.
I know that, but I wanted to avoid looking like a troll. Just in case. :D
|
30k deaths, well I was bawwing. Then I saw 3k death toll and I was like that's alright. Is this how this works? Bigger number wins? If that's the case we should start building monuments for Iraqis because their death toll is way bigger and therefore way more tragic compared to American casualties. AMIDOINGITRITE?
|
even if OP is a troll attempt, there's no reason to take the bait.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
