One more "fuck the police" from page 8 and onward is going to have an all expense paid weekend to E-Disneyland. It adds nothing to the discussion and as such please refrain from making such posts in this topic and the boards in general.
On May 29 2011 20:37 bOne7 wrote: Why am I interested in US actions ? Well , it is pretty simple ... USA is the sole superpower now ... Well China is rising up , but still it doesn't have the capability to wage war like the US has ... If this superpower slips into fascism ... Well ... It's gg humans ... Well most of us ..
My concern is that we as human beings forget the conection we had to each other and "nature" ( while ofcourse everything on this planet , even the nuclear plants are natural , because they are made by us , us being part of nature ) , and since we forgot about this conection we created a deep disturbing psychoses in our human colective psychic .. And as it seems now , most of the psychopats rule the world ... These people aren't repulsive or anything ... Look at the case of Ted Bundy ... He was a very charming and apparently decent human being ... But ... what he did ...
If you think I'm a retarted conspiracy theorist ... Well I left that behind , and now I'm trying only to give my persepctive on things , and trying to analyze every problem from both sides of the spectrum ... Making hydraulic fracturing legal . home gardening outlawed .... Man ... this is all f***ed up ..
You're right.
I do think that you're a conspiracy theorist.
well, here in Spain our government has put some new laws which cut freedom for us, under pressure from the american government
and we can't forget about the new security rules from the airports, who came from USA
Oh NO!!! After 9/11 and multiple terrorist attempts, including on international flights we should just sit back and not use what power we have to try to stop it from happening again!!! God why didn't I think of that!!!
On a less sarcastic note I will not feel bad or guilty for you guys getting airport security because of us, frankly you should be thanking god that you didn't need a 9/11 to happen to decide to implement this stuff.
Yeah, but dude - it's not about that. It's about metal detectors in schools. Few other civilized countries have them. Good measure of security? Yes, of course. Should it be needed at all? No, of course not.
I respect metal detectors. I respect airport security, but taking these measures without addressing the actual problems is like curing gushing arterial bleeds with a band aid. There are few if any measures taken that are visible to the public. What's being done? Nothing?
On May 29 2011 20:37 bOne7 wrote: Why am I interested in US actions ? Well , it is pretty simple ... USA is the sole superpower now ... Well China is rising up , but still it doesn't have the capability to wage war like the US has ... If this superpower slips into fascism ... Well ... It's gg humans ... Well most of us ..
My concern is that we as human beings forget the conection we had to each other and "nature" ( while ofcourse everything on this planet , even the nuclear plants are natural , because they are made by us , us being part of nature ) , and since we forgot about this conection we created a deep disturbing psychoses in our human colective psychic .. And as it seems now , most of the psychopats rule the world ... These people aren't repulsive or anything ... Look at the case of Ted Bundy ... He was a very charming and apparently decent human being ... But ... what he did ...
If you think I'm a retarted conspiracy theorist ... Well I left that behind , and now I'm trying only to give my persepctive on things , and trying to analyze every problem from both sides of the spectrum ... Making hydraulic fracturing legal . home gardening outlawed .... Man ... this is all f***ed up ..
You're right.
I do think that you're a conspiracy theorist.
well, here in Spain our government has put some new laws which cut freedom for us, under pressure from the american government
and we can't forget about the new security rules from the airports, who came from USA
Oh NO!!! After 9/11 and multiple terrorist attempts, including on international flights we should just sit back and not use what power we have to try to stop it from happening again!!! God why didn't I think of that!!!
On a less sarcastic note I will not feel bad or guilty for you guys getting airport security because of us, frankly you should be thanking god that you didn't need a 9/11 to happen to decide to implement this stuff.
oh, the rules which doesn't mean to prevent the terrorists because there are others way to destroy a plane...
and what about the new scanner on the airports? and the new system to check the intimate parts of your 3 years old son?
we didn't have a 9/11, but we had 11/04, did you know? And we didn't put stupid rules cutting our freedom after that. Ignorant
Your government is fucking our contry with some rules, and we can't allow that because we have enough with our stupid politicians
On May 29 2011 20:06 Navillus wrote: But once a cop gives you a warning that you'll be arrested for doing something you don't do it five seconds later in his face, that's just stupid. .
Get to the back of the bus, Rosa Parks.
Are you seriously comparing African American rights with dancing near a statue? REALLY?!
I'm comparing having the right to move your body in public in a harmless manner to sitting where you want to sit on the bus. In both situations, the law asked people to stop and in both situations, the person disobeyed in a civil manner. Elementary school children can understand this, why can't you?
No, you're twisting the situation to ignore the context on purpose to sensationalize the topic as usual.
The first situation was about one person not having the same rights as another person. The second situation is about no people having the right to demonstrate in a park area - not just people of a certain race, creed, gender, or religion. Those are COMPLETELY different situations.
So what you're saying is the law doesn't discriminate, it fucks over everyone by taking away their freedom of expression. I don't get how that doesn't make the Law look bad.
Bahrain doesn't want people dancing near a statue, so they tear it down. Stupid Bahrainians trying to express yourself, y'all deserve to be arrested.
I doubt they had a permit. /trollface
No, seriously, you are again comparing absurd situations to reasonable ones to try to argue how the future will be. That line of reasoning doesn't work. A few people dancing at a statue to protest a park law and a federal law that have been in place for centuries is completely different than people about to start a war over democracy.
If they allow people to honor Jefferson, they have to allow people to dishonor Jefferson and that starts an unhappy chain of events.
Anyone going "oh dem kids hate the law with their potsmocking" just watch the footage, Adam gets bodyslammed against the ground and held with a chokegrip whilst holding his hands up. That's a huge deal, chokegrip is (atleast in sweden) a huge overstepping of violence. EDIT: To put it in perspective, you could get 6 years in prison in Sweden for that. And yes, it does not have to be with the intent of killing or choking you, just holding a chokegrip is bad enough.
Bodyslamming and chokeholding a person who's not even attacking you.. Isn't that straight up assault? I didn't know resisting arrest gives officers the right to seriously injure someone?
On May 29 2011 20:06 Navillus wrote: But once a cop gives you a warning that you'll be arrested for doing something you don't do it five seconds later in his face, that's just stupid. .
Get to the back of the bus, Rosa Parks.
Are you seriously comparing African American rights with dancing near a statue? REALLY?!
I'm comparing having the right to move your body in public in a harmless manner to sitting where you want to sit on the bus. In both situations, the law asked people to stop and in both situations, the person disobeyed in a civil manner. Elementary school children can understand this, why can't you?
No, you're twisting the situation to ignore the context on purpose to sensationalize the topic as usual.
The first situation was about one person not having the same rights as another person. The second situation is about no people having the right to demonstrate in a park area - not just people of a certain race, creed, gender, or religion. Those are COMPLETELY different situations.
So what you're saying is the law doesn't discriminate, it fucks over everyone by taking away their freedom of expression. I don't get how that doesn't make the Law look bad.
Bahrain doesn't want people dancing near a statue, so they tear it down. Stupid Bahrainians trying to express yourself, y'all deserve to be arrested.
The fact that you equate the government of Bahrain trying to stop pro democracy protests and how much African-Americans were oppressed with a court deciding that you can't DANCE in the Jefferson Memorial is actually horrifying, I think this is more showing your problem with understanding true difficulties and real issues than it shows any problem with the US. If you really think that not being able to dance in one spot is this bad then you've been living way too sheltered a life.
I can't really determine who here is American and not American (without looking at the tags) -- cause America is pretty leftist at the moment. I'm a liberal son of a bitch. Of course shit like this happens all of the time -- in countries from which many people are posting. I don't love America by any means, and I don't hate it -- that's where I was born. I hate articles like this that defame the legitimacy of anything American, because of an instance similar to the instances that occur around the world everyday in other developed countries. Dissapointing to see this type of intelligence so global.
Anyone going "oh dem kids hate the law with their potsmocking" just watch the footage, Adam gets bodyslammed against the ground and held with a chokegrip whilst holding his hands up. That's a huge deal, chokegrip is (atleast in sweden) a huge overstepping of violence. EDIT: To put it in perspective, you could get 6 years in prison in Sweden for that. And yes, it does not have to be with the intent of killing or choking you, just holding a chokegrip is bad enough.
Bodyslamming and chokeholding a person who's not even attacking you.. Isn't that straight up assault?
Then again, this is the US of A...
Would you please actually watch the first video and read the thread before responding? Or is that above you amazing Belgians? Either way you're not even worth a new response so here.
uhuh uhuh, this is why you get original's not videos from news sources, Fox seems to have muted the guy they were talking to yelling the entire time, the guy who was thrown to the ground was only thrown down after being told to put his hands behind his back a half a dozen times, oh and you think he was holding his hands up? Cause I saw him holding his hands away from the police officer who was trying to do his job and arrest him (seriously to everyone yelling at the cops are they supposed to NOT enforce the law as it stands?) Also, just because the news announcer on fox called what he did a "choke hold" does not make it a real choke hold, he put his hand on the guys neck, that was nothing close to an actual choke hold and if you're going to make a point of saying a choke grip is a big deal learn what it actually looks like.
As to the second guy, he was pulling his friend away from a police officer who was putting handcuffs on him (the friend was not resisting) that is absolutely interfering with police and resisting arrest.
On May 29 2011 20:56 Batssa wrote: I can't really determine who here is American and not American (without looking at the tags) -- cause America is pretty leftist at the moment. I'm a liberal son of a bitch. Of course shit like this happens all of the time -- in countries from which many people are posting. I don't love America by any means, and I don't hate it -- that's where I was born. I hate articles like this that defame the legitimacy of anything American, because of an instance similar to the instances that occur around the world everyday in other developed countries. Dissapointing to see this type of intelligence so global.
Left isn't the same than liberal, and I doubt america is pretty leftist right now.
On May 29 2011 20:56 Batssa wrote: I can't really determine who here is American and not American (without looking at the tags) -- cause America is pretty leftist at the moment. I'm a liberal son of a bitch. Of course shit like this happens all of the time -- in countries from which many people are posting. I don't love America by any means, and I don't hate it -- that's where I was born. I hate articles like this that defame the legitimacy of anything American, because of an instance similar to the instances that occur around the world everyday in other developed countries. Dissapointing to see this type of intelligence so global.
Yep. But especially in Europe today it's become the new cool thing to hate America. I dont love America either, but saying something like "well that's USA for you" is just ignorant. Most people have never been to America, they watch a youtube clip and form some silly opinion based on nothing. Stuff like this happens all the time, all around the world.
Of course they should be allowed to dance there, dunno what that cop was thinking :S As long as they arent disturbing others of course.
On May 29 2011 20:12 Ghostcom wrote: The western society is based around freedom under responsibility and well, doing something that can hurt the feelings of so many just because you can doesn't seem very responsible.
No it isn't. Freedom of expression is only limited by the call for others to be harmed. Especially in America. In particular this is because offense is taken, not given. If people would have to refrain from any action thought or speech if one person were to appoint it offensive any expression would be stifled. As I can claim anything is offensive to me and there is no way for you to proof it otherwise.
On May 29 2011 20:12 Ghostcom wrote: That is not to say that I don't think the cops overreacted quite a bit, but then again, it's not like he didn't do anything to annoy them.
Being annoying is not illegal. Also being annoying is subjective, see the above. Pretty sad post comming from someone from Denmark of all places. Cartoons anyone?
On May 29 2011 20:56 Batssa wrote: I can't really determine who here is American and not American (without looking at the tags) -- cause America is pretty leftist at the moment. I'm a liberal son of a bitch. Of course shit like this happens all of the time -- in countries from which many people are posting. I don't love America by any means, and I don't hate it -- that's where I was born. I hate articles like this that defame the legitimacy of anything American, because of an instance similar to the instances that occur around the world everyday in other developed countries. Dissapointing to see this type of intelligence so global.
Left isn't the same than liberal.
Correct. Liberal originally meant "favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs."
Democrats were usually called liberals because they tend to favor change. Most democratic candidates usually run on a platform based around change in some way or another.
That doesn't mean the two are the same thing though. I know plenty of liberal Republicans who want social reforms (equal rights for gays, right to choose, etc) but like the current economic system that the US has for the most part and just want a few changes there.
Why are they dancing at someone's grave? That's disrespectful. I read on that some judge already had to make a ruling against being allowed to dance at this specific memorial because this troll was getting out of hand. Wft?
edit : Holy crap not only that the guy was yelling at the officer "YOU HATE THE CONSTITUTION, DON'T YOU?! YOU HATE AMERICA?" over and over again. I'm glad he got body slammed before more assholes with nothing better to do started a riot.
On May 29 2011 19:58 MrTortoise wrote: what people forget is that there is no such typing as freedom. You only have freedom whilst the state lets you have freedom.
What you have are sadists in blue
This is why we can't have nice things. A person gave us their side of the story, which I'm hesitant to accept at face value because it is in his interest to minimize wrongdoing to avoid further legal action.
Then someone made a forum post on an unrelated website. See how far we're getting from the origin of the matter?
I find it much more likely that he was in plain terms acting like a moron in a public monument, revered by millions of people for its solemn memorial of our past.
Around February 1951 Ray Bradbury wrote:"So bring on your clubs and parties, your acrobats and magicians, your daredevils, jet cars, motorcycle helicopters, your sex and heroin, more of everything to do with automatic reflex. If the drama is bad, if the film says nothing, if the play is hollow, sting me with the theremin, loudly. I'll think I'm responding to the play, when it's only a tactile reaction to vibration. But I don't care. I just like solid entertainment."
Take your pick. Idiot dancing or the culture of our civilization.
On May 29 2011 20:37 bOne7 wrote: Why am I interested in US actions ? Well , it is pretty simple ... USA is the sole superpower now ... Well China is rising up , but still it doesn't have the capability to wage war like the US has ... If this superpower slips into fascism ... Well ... It's gg humans ... Well most of us ..
My concern is that we as human beings forget the conection we had to each other and "nature" ( while ofcourse everything on this planet , even the nuclear plants are natural , because they are made by us , us being part of nature ) , and since we forgot about this conection we created a deep disturbing psychoses in our human colective psychic .. And as it seems now , most of the psychopats rule the world ... These people aren't repulsive or anything ... Look at the case of Ted Bundy ... He was a very charming and apparently decent human being ... But ... what he did ...
If you think I'm a retarted conspiracy theorist ... Well I left that behind , and now I'm trying only to give my persepctive on things , and trying to analyze every problem from both sides of the spectrum ... Making hydraulic fracturing legal . home gardening outlawed .... Man ... this is all f***ed up ..
You're right.
I do think that you're a conspiracy theorist.
well, here in Spain our government has put some new laws which cut freedom for us, under pressure from the american government
and we can't forget about the new security rules from the airports, who came from USA
Oh NO!!! After 9/11 and multiple terrorist attempts, including on international flights we should just sit back and not use what power we have to try to stop it from happening again!!! God why didn't I think of that!!!
On a less sarcastic note I will not feel bad or guilty for you guys getting airport security because of us, frankly you should be thanking god that you didn't need a 9/11 to happen to decide to implement this stuff.
oh, the rules which doesn't mean to prevent the terrorists because there are others way to destroy a plane...
and what about the new scanner on the airports? and the new system to check the intimate parts of your 3 years old son?
we didn't have a 9/11, but we had 11/04, did you know? And we didn't put stupid rules cutting our freedom after that. Ignorant
Your government is fucking our contry with some rules, and we can't allow that because we have enough with our stupid politicians
God I actually can't stand people that say that we shouldn't have security because it will have holes, is it really possible to be that ignorant? So we should also get rid of laws against murder because people will do it anyway right?
You're right I didn't know about 11/04 (after a couple google searches I still don't) but I don't actually see it as a good thing that you don't want new laws to protect you after that, in fact to me that just seems like you just don't want to be inconvenienced even if it means a few more people will die.
Anyone going "oh dem kids hate the law with their potsmocking" just watch the footage, Adam gets bodyslammed against the ground and held with a chokegrip whilst holding his hands up. That's a huge deal, chokegrip is (atleast in sweden) a huge overstepping of violence. EDIT: To put it in perspective, you could get 6 years in prison in Sweden for that. And yes, it does not have to be with the intent of killing or choking you, just holding a chokegrip is bad enough.
Bodyslamming and chokeholding a person who's not even attacking you.. Isn't that straight up assault?
Then again, this is the US of A...
Would you please actually watch the first video and read the thread before responding? Or is that above you amazing Belgians? Either way you're not even worth a new response so here.
uhuh uhuh, this is why you get original's not videos from news sources, Fox seems to have muted the guy they were talking to yelling the entire time, the guy who was thrown to the ground was only thrown down after being told to put his hands behind his back a half a dozen times, oh and you think he was holding his hands up? Cause I saw him holding his hands away from the police officer who was trying to do his job and arrest him (seriously to everyone yelling at the cops are they supposed to NOT enforce the law as it stands?) Also, just because the news announcer on fox called what he did a "choke hold" does not make it a real choke hold, he put his hand on the guys neck, that was nothing close to an actual choke hold and if you're going to make a point of saying a choke grip is a big deal learn what it actually looks like.
As to the second guy, he was pulling his friend away from a police officer who was putting handcuffs on him (the friend was not resisting) that is absolutely interfering with police and resisting arrest.
Oh, I watched the video alright, and I saw police officers abusing their power and using violence against people who had no intention of attacking them.
I live in a country where violence is only allowed on people who actually attack you, or threaten to kill you with a firearm or a knife. Even then the violence must be proportionate: you can not break someone's arm when he was only about to give you a punch to the face. You can punch him to avoid getting injured yourself but you can not hurt him more than he was about to hurt you. In the same vein: if you shoot or kill someone who breaks into your home, you'll be charged with either attempt at murder or murder. You're not even allowed to hurt the burglar, only to restrain him/her.
Those people in the video looked pretty damn harmless to me and those officers really crossed the line of what is acceptable. I'm surprised they didn't use their taser guns, to be honest.
This is just ...., who the fuck would want to dance in that location anyway? If people are told by the police that they should stop, they should, not provoke and question authority over and over.
They were told multiple times they were not allowed to dance, yet they danced away. 'police brutality' some say, well you can't force someone to not dance by a poke. It all comes down to a question of common sense and the dancing people.. well, they didn't have any. Sure some laws are stupid but if they want to demonstrate, they should do it well prepared. Silly people + Show Spoiler +
On May 29 2011 20:44 han_han wrote: I can't help but side with the people dancing on this one. Yes, there are regulations and laws, but honestly it's ridiculous you can't do something as simple as dancing in a public memorial. It's not like they were spewing hate speech and pissing on the memorial, they were DANCING.
On May 29 2011 20:44 han_han wrote: something as simple as dancing in a public memorial
If there is music, a mind that is perceptive and easily swayed by beats may induce the body to move in a way that expresses enjoyment or connection to this music. There was no music at this site or at least none that could be experienced by the other members of the general public. These people were dancing to silence. There is nothing simple about silent dancing. This act could easily incite fear amongst the gathered and uninformed crowd. Fear that there is some sort of communicable toxin attacking these individual's neural systems causing them to move spastically. Fear that there is some sort of weaponized memetic dance assault that could cause viewers to lose higher brain control over their bodies which could possibly lead to harm to themselves or others.
You can laugh at the previous statement, but know that during span of the 13th and 15th century, Europe was randomly plagued by unprovoked dancing. Things that happen and go away, do not every truly vanish. Do not make light of dancing, bro. You may find yourself dying from it one day.
EPT
