$22,138 gone. My three closest friends. Gone My girlfriend. Gone My life savings, my achievements, most of my belonging. My computer, $11,000 worth of various drugs, a fireproof safe, 4 legal firearms, a knife collection, and two cats. Gone.
All because of the idiocy of one person. Yesterday at approximately 12:30 PM i was ratted out by someone i considered a close friend. Within 3 hours, the police were at my door. The held me down and confiscated everything i owned of value. They arrested three of my friends straight out, and my girlfriend. They froze my bank account. I bailed myself out with my emergency funds, $10,000. I had no other money. Now i'm looking at 11+ years in prison.
I've never been so angry in my life. I'm writing to keep myself from doing something drastic. I built a computer out of spare parts, to keep myself from doing something stupid. I destroyed a kitchen furniture set with a sledgehammer, to keep myself from doing something i would regret.
I've got maybe another week left of freedom. I have no idea what to do. I told all my family members. I'm visibly shaking right now. I want to, for the first time in my life, kill someone. I want to beat his face in and watch him bleed to death. I've never known hate so powerful in my life and no matter how hard i try i can't help but embrace it.
I don't know if this is a suicide note. I don't know if this is the level of rage, of indignation, of pure desperation, that spree killers, or axe murderers feel. I don't know what i'll do. It seems that my only purpose left in life now is to kill the man who did this to me. I've lost everything, and i feel that the lives of 5 people can easily be avenged my making sure i cut short the life of one.
I don't know if this will be my last post. I didn't think it would ever come to this. I was smart. I avoided trouble where others got caught, and i somehow built a life for myself. Now i will never hold a career. My schooling is worthless. Everything i've ever worked for, and achieved, is GONE!
Maybe if i write another paragraph, i'll be able to figure out a solution. Something i didn't see before other than killing this motherfucker and leaving the state. I know i could do it. The pigs aren't smart. I've still got my HK-SL8 locked up in it's hiding place. It seems to whisper to me. I don't know if i've gone crazy, or if i've finally realized my solution.
After i post this, i will monitor this topic. Teamliquid, i've turned to you in times of trouble before. I consider the people here intelligent and well read. I even consider some of you friends. Talk me out of this. I will go to court, and then to prison, without killing this man if you can talk me out of it. I can't think rationally right now, so maybe you can.
On March 24 2010 19:40 MyHeroNoob wrote: Why did he rat you out? o_O
Because he's an idiot. No other reason. He didn't avoid any trouble. He stole 600 grams of China White from me, hid it, and then tipped me off via the police.
If this is true...do not do anything rash. You are looking at what? 11 years? It is a lot, but if it comes to this, there is high chance you could get out early, as well as other things that can go your way.
If you kill a man, you will be in there forever, or worse. what exactly did he rat you out on? drugs?
I cannot really tell you anything worth 2 pennies right now to help you out. Only thing i can rationally think of is that you do NOT want to TAKE someones life. I am 100% sure you would regret it for the rest of your life.
A) Run to Panama (if you don't have the money to fly there [it's really cheap] then literally start walking / hitch hiking)
B) Kill this guy and go to jail for the rest of your life and potentially get the death penalty for first degree murder (depending on your state will you get a death penalty) because he ratted you out when you were dealing drugs.
C) Plea for a bargain (i.e. less jail time if you hook them up with your supplier)
D) Go to jail like any normal guy and do the time, maybe write a book or something with all of your free time sitting around. Maybe join a gang while your in there like in the movie 'Felon'
I'm reading all of your previous blogs at the moment and they are really fascinating when this post is taken into consideration.
I don't know you at all, but my advice to anyone in a situation like this would be to get to your parents place as soon as you can. Family is the only thing that matters.
If this is true, think of it this way; the guy who ratted you out, considering he was your friend, will probably regret this for the rest of his life. I think that level of regret is far worse than 11 (max) years in prison. Unless he didn't care about you in at all. If that's the case let's just hope karma is real, huhu
On March 24 2010 19:53 Sunny Afternoon wrote: If this is true, think of it this way; the guy who ratted you out, considering he was your friend, will probably regret this for the rest of his life. I think that level of regret is far worse than 11 (max) years in prison. Unless he didn't care about you in at all. If that's the case let's just hope karma is real, huhu
On March 24 2010 19:53 Hot_Bid wrote: can you explain the story and your situation more fully?
Basically, it was this guys job to take this big shipment of China White from BC over the border for me. He tried to rip me off and i caught on right away, went to his place but he wasnt there. I found out where he was from his brother and me and a couple of my friends went to ask him what was up, why he'd been gone for a week. He said he was locked up in BC which is bullshit because you don't get locked up for a week with 600 grams of pure on you. We pushed him around a little and when he wouldn't tell us where the shit was i got my dealer on the line and he told the little faggot he would kill him if he didn't tell us. The guy wouldn't say so we left and went back to my house. 3 hours later i'm face down with handcuffs on. The worst part is i've always been at least civil with the guy, i've lent him money before when his car broke down etc. Anyway apparently he was shooting himself up on my dollar and then he got jacked in Seattle for a good chunk of the shit so he hid it while trying to come up with an excuse rather than coming out to me straight up. Worst part is that he's not going to get in any trouble at all for this.
On March 24 2010 19:58 Kiante wrote: Gosh i'm glad i live in australia. Just to point out, maybe if you weren't doing illegal shit, your life wouldn't be fucked up.
I agree. Though not really what he needs right now.
On March 24 2010 19:58 Kiante wrote: Gosh i'm glad i live in australia. Just to point out, maybe if you weren't doing illegal shit, your life wouldn't be fucked up.
You think i don't realize that what i do is dangerous? I'm starting to finally come to the conclusion that killing him would only make things worse. I'm seriously considering getting out of dodge and going to stay with my dad for a while... i can scrape up enough cash to fly out to Croatia on short notice.
On March 24 2010 19:58 Kiante wrote: Gosh i'm glad i live in australia. Just to point out, maybe if you weren't doing illegal shit, your life wouldn't be fucked up.
You think i don't realize that what i do is dangerous? I'm starting to finally come to the conclusion that killing him would only make things worse. I'm seriously considering getting out of dodge and going to stay with my dad for a while... i can scrape up enough cash to fly out to Croatia on short notice.
Who arrested you? Police? DEA? You may not be flying anywhere.
On March 24 2010 19:58 Kiante wrote: Gosh i'm glad i live in australia. Just to point out, maybe if you weren't doing illegal shit, your life wouldn't be fucked up.
You think i don't realize that what i do is dangerous? I'm starting to finally come to the conclusion that killing him would only make things worse. I'm seriously considering getting out of dodge and going to stay with my dad for a while... i can scrape up enough cash to fly out to Croatia on short notice.
Who arrested you? Police? DEA? You may not be flying anywhere.
Local police. I think i can find a way to get out of the country, and it doesn't exactly involve a commercial plane ticket. DEA is probably something i'll have to deal with later, those government agencies aren't very quick.
On March 24 2010 19:58 Kiante wrote: Gosh i'm glad i live in australia. Just to point out, maybe if you weren't doing illegal shit, your life wouldn't be fucked up.
You think i don't realize that what i do is dangerous? I'm starting to finally come to the conclusion that killing him would only make things worse. I'm seriously considering getting out of dodge and going to stay with my dad for a while... i can scrape up enough cash to fly out to Croatia on short notice.
Police will find you if you stay with close relatives,besides they probably issued a warning that you cant get out of the country ,your best bet is sneak illegally into Mexico and from there start head to some foreign country like Brasil, get some fake id or something and start from 0.
Talk honestly with your dead and ask something like 10 000$ for initial expenses
Was probably bound to happen eventually, I rarely hear of people who deal anything more than weed who succeed to do it very long. People are messed up when it comes to drugs, people fuck eachother over.
BTW killing the guy is not a option, that will guarantee a life in prision. In the worst case even if you stay and get 10y or so in Prision , its not as bad as a life setence. Youll never walk free again.
Man I feel for you. Since I've opened this topic, I feel like there's been some pit in my stomach. I'm studying to eventually become a lawyer (constitutional not criminal law) and 11 years for this shit is just too much. Something is wrong here. I really wish I could help you :/
A man who has nothing more to lose can be very dangerous.
Honestly, this type of risk just comes with the game. I don't really know what you expect us to say at this point; I'm sure you already knew everyone would tell you not to go for the kill. But let's be real, a forum isn't going to stop you.
You're looking at a chance to start from scratch in 11 years or stay in prison for life.
Tough choice?
edit: or yeah, become a fugitive the rest of your life
Talk to a lawyer to understand your options. You got yourself into a hole here, stop digging it deeper. Worst case scenario you still get out before you're 30.
Lucky the cops didn't get all my shit. I've got 2 grams of pure Meth, and while i was addicted to this shit for nearly a year it's really what i need right now. This just sounds more and more unreal the more i say it, but what i'm going to have to do is drive to (city), and meet a guy who will (transport) me to (a place), and then i'll (go) to (another place). I know Hvar just as well as i know Washington state, and considering i just graduated from college there a couple months ago everything should be fine. It really sucks that all this shit had to go down... I'm writing a goodbye note to my family. I've still got a couple things to take care, and some texts to send. I really just wanted to see that other people would agree that i shouldn't kill the guy. I'm still not gonna make his live easy. When i get back to Croatia, i'm going to try to go legit. I'm rambling on again because i'm trying to get this all sorted out in my head.
On March 24 2010 20:09 WickedDreams wrote: As i see there´s only one option. Run away as illegal imigrant to Brasil or similar country, getting fake id and start from 0
Don't waste your time looking for this guy and doing something stupid. Especially if you get caught you're looking at 25 to life and after a year I'm pretty fucking sure you would get over everything and just wish you never harmed the guy to make 24+ more years of that shit. He would be making your life even worse basically.
I think if you fled the country then your friends and gf could all just point the fingers at you and/or the dude that ratted you out (which is the best and only way to take revenge me thinks) and since you're gone they would all get off easy. btw, probably not a good idea to post shit on public forums, could be used against you in court (or to find what country to look for you in). And also, stating certain facts also could be used as an admission of guilt or confession or whatever.
PS- why the fuck did they take the cats? That's kinda messed up.
On March 24 2010 20:10 gilligan wrote: Oh, and China White is heroin correct?
i have no pity for any heroin dealer that gets caught, fuck you op, yeah enjoy the 11 years. you're a part of something that ruins lives and kills.
you're trash, a parasite. the police did something good.
That's not entirely fair. The man feels like he's losing everything. I'm not trying to be a "heroin dealer apologist" but this man has built a life that's being torn down around him. Even though what you say is true, this really isn't the place for it; maybe some other time or place but not here and now. The guys dealing with a lot right now, give him a break.
Between this and monion's creepy as hell blog, I think I've seen just about everything here on TL.
Jesus Christ.
Honestly, I have no unbiased advice for you except don't kill him or yourself. Those decisions at the very least can never be taken back.
My biased advice is to take your lumps and start over. You won't get the full 11 years as long as you aren't stupid about it. However, I can't really abide drug dealers. I had a friend who had a serious problem, so my view is a little one-sided. While, I'm sure you are a very very nice drug dealer, honestly, what did you expect?
On March 24 2010 20:12 ghermination wrote: Lucky the cops didn't get all my shit. I've got 2 grams of pure Meth, and while i was addicted to this shit for nearly a year it's really what i need right now. This just sounds more and more unreal the more i say it, but what i'm going to have to do is drive to (city), and meet a guy who will (transport) me to (a place), and then i'll (go) to (another place). I know Hvar just as well as i know Washington state, and considering i just graduated from college there a couple months ago everything should be fine. It really sucks that all this shit had to go down... I'm writing a goodbye note to my family. I've still got a couple things to take care, and some texts to send. I really just wanted to see that other people would agree that i shouldn't kill the guy. I'm still not gonna make his live easy. When i get back to Croatia, i'm going to try to go legit. I'm rambling on again because i'm trying to get this all sorted out in my head.
On March 24 2010 20:13 CharlieMurphy wrote: Don't waste your time looking for this guy and doing something stupid. Especially if you get caught you're looking at 25 to life and after a year I'm pretty fucking sure you would get over everything and just wish you never harmed the guy to make 24+ more years of that shit. He would be making your life even worse basically.
I think if you fled the country then your friends and gf could all just point the fingers at you and since you're gone they would all get off easy. btw, probably not a good idea to post shit on public forums, could be used against you in court (or to find what country to look for you in).
Posting on a public forum is the least of my worries. I've never given my real name, real location, even the name of any of my friends on this forum. There's a picture or two of me on the internet, but i dare someone to try to find one. Thanks for helping me through this last hour or so TL, i really needed it. Just finishing everything up right now. The last couple years have been a hell of ride but this is ridiculous and i'm still pissed, beyond belief even. Hopefully everything i've tried to contribute to this forum has been enough to justify me using it as my own little baww blog for a little while. Also, i just made a promise to myself that i will never be involved in any large scale moving again. This shit is just too crazy, and i can't deal with it. I'll check in when i can, but right now i think it's time for me to get my shit together.
This blog is totally epic I must say- you sound exactly like the movies (the departed, American Gangster etc etc)
That being said, you should look at this from a long term perspective - when u get out of prison, you'd be like mid-30's. Then are you gonna start out your life afresh? or are you gonna get involved with mobsters or use your connections gotten from prison? you should also bear in mind 11 years is long enough to completely change a person
If u do decide to run to Croatia, will you have to live your life hiding all the time, constantly looking over your shoulders?
On March 24 2010 20:13 CharlieMurphy wrote: Don't waste your time looking for this guy and doing something stupid. Especially if you get caught you're looking at 25 to life and after a year I'm pretty fucking sure you would get over everything and just wish you never harmed the guy to make 24+ more years of that shit. He would be making your life even worse basically.
I think if you fled the country then your friends and gf could all just point the fingers at you and since you're gone they would all get off easy. btw, probably not a good idea to post shit on public forums, could be used against you in court (or to find what country to look for you in).
Posting on a public forum is the least of my worries. I've never given my real name, real location, even the name of any of my friends on this forum. There's a picture or two of me on the internet, but i dare someone to try to find one. Thanks for helping me through this last hour or so TL, i really needed it. Just finishing everything up right now. The last couple years have been a hell of ride but this is ridiculous and i'm still pissed, beyond belief even. Hopefully everything i've tried to contribute to this forum has been enough to justify me using it as my own little baww blog for a little while. Also, i just made a promise to myself that i will never be involved in any large scale moving again. This shit is just too crazy, and i can't deal with it. I'll check in when i can, but right now i think it's time for me to get my shit together.
it's so easy for people to say "fuck you drug dealer scum, rot in prison, do your time" but say they were in his situation would just give in and do it so easily? I mean we are talking about your life here, it would be even more worthless than it already is. and you can't take it back, prison is not an easy place either. REALLY fucking bad shit happens in there, and often times people come out worse then they started out.
Also, about the supply/demand thing. he's not forcing people to buy or use his drugs for one. And for two, the kind of people who abuse these drugs aren't exactly model citizens in the first place. Like really, do you fucking care when you see a crackhead on the street? Do you try and help them with some food/money and advice, or do you shudder in disgust and tell jokes to your friends about them later? The world is filled with tons of shitty people, drug addicts, people in need, whoever. What do you to help them? All i've seen you fuckers do is ride up on your high horse of the internet and tell him how much of a terrible person he is. Time to wake up to reality and realize that drugs are here forever and not going anywhere regardless if petty drug dealers are put away, there will always be a demand, therefor there will always be a supply. The 'war on drugs' is the biggest piece of bullshit the media and gov't have ever come up with. Yyou can't beat something that can't be stopped. You can't even slow it down. Drugs and drug users are gonna do what they want. If you stop the sales in one place, it just moves to another. They aren't cleaning up the problem, they are just moving it around. And that's another thing, with all the fucking money that the gov't pours into these operations and departments (which some of them are even corrupt) they could actually be using it to solve some real fucking problems with this fucked up country.
People charged with dealing drugs can bail themselves out for $10,000? Including ones with foreign ties? It would make much more sense for them to set bail at least at a couple hundred thousand, so your parents would have to put their house up, and so if you ran you would alienate your family.
Wouldn't every drug dealer who's ever been caught pay the 10k and try to flee the country? And if your friend got turned on the border, wouldn't it be handled by federal agents?
I would say focus on convincing the judge why you don't deserve 11+ years, and trying to people or flee the country certainly isn't going to help your case. If you think the biggest problem is that you got caught, it's not going to help your case either.
ghermination is a HERO. A HERO BECAUSE AGAINST ALL ODDS HE SUPPLIES PEOPLE WITH WHAT THEY WANT! AT GREAT RISK!!!
This should not be a crime and I support his move to Croatia! Fuck the war on drugs~ you did your part for the world, ghermination. Except for any extortion you may have done... fuck you for that...if you did it, gherm.
On March 24 2010 20:23 CharlieMurphy wrote: it's so easy for people to say "fuck you drug dealer scum, rot in prison, do your time" but say they were in his situation would just give in and do it so easily? I mean we are talking about your life here, it would be even more worthless than it already is. and you can't take it back, prison is not an easy place either. REALLY fucking bad shit happens in there, and often times people come out worse then they started out.
Imagine myself in his situation? Why the hell would I ever be in his situation? I couldn't imagine doing something as low as dealing drugs. I'm sorry. But no. The people who say that probably CAN'T imagine themselves in that situation.
Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat" who's life was threatened earlier. Wouldn't you do the same thing?
I don't believe you could kill that guy; from your tone of posting, you don't seem to be that type of guy. (this is a compliment) Only losers kill people.
I have a feeling you're gonna get out of this with a few scratches, and go on with your life. You'll likely go legit and end up doing great in business, and you'll be a fun grandpa one day.
Just dropping in to say I don't feel any sympathy for you. None at all. Drug dealers destroy other people's lives. I can't understand how some posters advise ghermination to flee and start over somewhere else, unpunished after all his misdeeds.
On March 24 2010 20:23 CharlieMurphy wrote: it's so easy for people to say "fuck you drug dealer scum, rot in prison, do your time" but say they were in his situation would just give in and do it so easily? I mean we are talking about your life here, it would be even more worthless than it already is. and you can't take it back, prison is not an easy place either. REALLY fucking bad shit happens in there, and often times people come out worse then they started out.
Imagine myself in his situation? Why the hell would I ever be in his situation? I couldn't imagine doing something as low as dealing drugs. I'm sorry. But no. The people who say that probably CAN'T imagine themselves in that situation.
Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat" who's life was threatened earlier. Wouldn't you do the same thing?
No, I wouldn't sell someone out for my own gain. People like you probably would though, that's fucking disgusting.
Also, that argument was exactly what I was expecting from someone like you "Oh i'd never do that cause im a goody two shoes, blah blah". That's not what I told you to imagine. I said imagine that you had been in a house, with all that shit and some fucker pinned it all on you. Regardless if it was yours or not.
On March 24 2010 20:23 CharlieMurphy wrote: it's so easy for people to say "fuck you drug dealer scum, rot in prison, do your time" but say they were in his situation would just give in and do it so easily? I mean we are talking about your life here, it would be even more worthless than it already is. and you can't take it back, prison is not an easy place either. REALLY fucking bad shit happens in there, and often times people come out worse then they started out.
Imagine myself in his situation? Why the hell would I ever be in his situation? I couldn't imagine doing something as low as dealing drugs. I'm sorry. But no. The people who say that probably CAN'T imagine themselves in that situation.
Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat" who's life was threatened earlier. Wouldn't you do the same thing?
No, I wouldn't sell someone out for my own gain. People like you probably would though, that's fucking disgusting.
On March 24 2010 20:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: I do a lot of editing of my posts, i shouldn't cause people tend to quote them before I finished what I was saying. And how does that make your point?
You should do a mental editing process cause you MIGHT catch HALF the stupid shit you say.
Charlie arguing for the plight of drug dealers doesn't shock me the least bit.
Grow the fuck up charlie. Everything isn't a theme to a movie.
oh yea cause everyone should be born with a silver spoon in their mouth, play for the local sports teams, get good grades, and go to college, right? Then graduate, get a good job, have a wife and 2 kids with a picket fence, and a good 9-5, and live a fairy tale.
On March 24 2010 20:23 CharlieMurphy wrote: it's so easy for people to say "fuck you drug dealer scum, rot in prison, do your time" but say they were in his situation would just give in and do it so easily? I mean we are talking about your life here, it would be even more worthless than it already is. and you can't take it back, prison is not an easy place either. REALLY fucking bad shit happens in there, and often times people come out worse then they started out.
Imagine myself in his situation? Why the hell would I ever be in his situation? I couldn't imagine doing something as low as dealing drugs. I'm sorry. But no. The people who say that probably CAN'T imagine themselves in that situation.
Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat" who's life was threatened earlier. Wouldn't you do the same thing?
Something "as low" as dealing dealing drugs? Who are you the fucking Pope? People like drugs, and need some way to acquire them.
On March 24 2010 20:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: I do a lot of editing of my posts, i shouldn't cause people tend to quote them before I finished what I was saying. And how does that make your point?
You say: Put yourself in his shoes. If you were a drug dealer and some ass ratted you out, would you go down quietly or would save yourself somehow. Paraphrasing.
I say: No, that's disgusting.
I say: Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat". Your life is being threatened. You might be killed. Do you go down quietly or do you save yourself somehow.
On March 24 2010 20:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: I do a lot of editing of my posts, i shouldn't cause people tend to quote them before I finished what I was saying. And how does that make your point?
You should do a mental editing process cause you MIGHT catch HALF the stupid shit you say.
Charlie arguing for the plight of drug dealers doesn't shock me the least bit.
Grow the fuck up charlie. Everything isn't a theme to a movie.
It's not that he wouldn't argue just as well for the victims of the drug dealer either. But he's got a point that people who are easily dismissing this guy as some "dirty evil drug dealer" aren't fully recognizing the situation. Often we attach these sorts of evil connotations to people who deal drugs as absolutely people who ruin lives and debase our subjective ideal society. Don't get me wrong, I subscribe to that same ideal society, and I'm not trying to argue that the guy was good and virtuous either, but there is some empathy that can be shown for another human being that's facing a great deal of suffering in his immediate future and I believe that's what Charlie is trying to display.
On March 24 2010 20:23 CharlieMurphy wrote: it's so easy for people to say "fuck you drug dealer scum, rot in prison, do your time" but say they were in his situation would just give in and do it so easily? I mean we are talking about your life here, it would be even more worthless than it already is. and you can't take it back, prison is not an easy place either. REALLY fucking bad shit happens in there, and often times people come out worse then they started out.
Imagine myself in his situation? Why the hell would I ever be in his situation? I couldn't imagine doing something as low as dealing drugs. I'm sorry. But no. The people who say that probably CAN'T imagine themselves in that situation.
Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat" who's life was threatened earlier. Wouldn't you do the same thing?
Something "as low" as dealing dealing drugs? Who are you the fucking Pope? People like drugs, and need some way to acquire them.
Yes, because everyone who doesn't like drug dealers must have be the Pope.
only advice to give you now is gooodluck which isnt even advice =/. You really cant do anything at this point that will make it any better for you. You can try to get the other guy in for sure but that is about it, remember not to talk to the police specifically about incidents =p they just skew it later.~~
On March 24 2010 20:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: I do a lot of editing of my posts, i shouldn't cause people tend to quote them before I finished what I was saying. And how does that make your point?
You say: Put yourself in his shoes. If you were a drug dealer and some ass ratted you out, would you go down quietly or would save yourself somehow. Paraphrasing.
I say: No, that's disgusting.
I say: Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat". Your life is being threatened. You might be killed. Do you go down quietly or do you save yourself somehow.
You say: No, that's disgusting.
Sigh.
that's not even the same thing at all. Being a drug dealer or labeled as a drug dealer is entirely different than ratting out a friend to save your own neck.
And what you were saying was that you would never be a drug dealer. What I was saying, is what IF you were, ofc you would be trying to find ways out of going to prison, like who the fuck wants to go to prison. Regardless that you can't see yourself being a drug dealer.
A rat on the other hand is just a weakminded/pussy mentality. A state of mind. You can't really imagine yourself in a mentality that isn't your own. However you are always yourself, no matter where you go or what you do. That is what I meant.
And cops/detectives don't threaten death to squealers wtf? They make up bullshit stories and lie to you to get you to sign confessions and point fingers because they are brainwashed into thinking they are doing a great service to humanity or win their bonus checks or awards.
Hummm... I don't really know what to say... there was a great blog posted here a few months ago also about a drug dealer in NYC that got out just in time. If you've got time to kill, go read it. Here it is: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=111073 I don't know if it's true or not, but maybe it will help you make a decision? I know there is revenge in there, but the point is, the dude stopped dealing, and that's what I think you should do also. Thinking about your choices, if you think rationally, the answer is to do the time as the saying goes "don't do the crime, if you can't do the time". I'd personally be scared shitless, and run from the country and never come back. If you want to kill the dude, it's your choice. I honestly have no idea what I'd do, but I'd probably beat him to a bloody pulp or break a few of his bones, but I don't know if I'd go as far as to kill him. You'd be labeled a murderer for the rest of your life, if not by the whole society, then by yourself. Think about what you're doing, if you need any more trouble right now.
If you have a guilty conscience, it may be better to not follow the 1st instinct which is to run. If you'd run you'd be on the run forever, always looking behind you,if someone is following you.
You'll probably do 5-6-7 years out of those 11 if you stay, plead guilty, show remorse etc.
Goodluck bro. I honestly have no idea what I'd do in your situation. If going to another country is feasible, I would be inclined to take that route...
EDIT: do not want to start a debate on how wrong and stupid the war on drugs is
On March 24 2010 20:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: I do a lot of editing of my posts, i shouldn't cause people tend to quote them before I finished what I was saying. And how does that make your point?
You say: Put yourself in his shoes. If you were a drug dealer and some ass ratted you out, would you go down quietly or would save yourself somehow. Paraphrasing.
I say: No, that's disgusting.
I say: Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat". Your life is being threatened. You might be killed. Do you go down quietly or do you save yourself somehow.
You say: No, that's disgusting.
Sigh.
that's not even the same thing at all. Being a drug dealer or labeled as a drug dealer is entirely different than ratting out a friend to save your own neck.
And what you were saying was that you would never be a drug dealer. What I was saying, is what IF you were, ofc you would be trying to find ways out of going to prison, like who the fuck wants to go to prison. Regardless that you can't see yourself being a drug dealer.
A rat on the other hand is just a weakminded/pussy mentality. A state of mind. You can't really imagine yourself in a mentality that isn't your own. However you are always yourself, no matter where you go or what you do. That is what I meant.
And cops/detectives don't threaten death to squealers wtf? They make up bullshit stories and lie to you to get you to sign confessions and point fingers because they are brainwashed into thinking they are doing a great service to humanity or win their bonus checks or awards.
You can't imagine being a rat. I can't imagine being a drug dealer. Fair enough?
On March 24 2010 19:57 ghermination wrote: We pushed him around a little and when he wouldn't tell us where the shit was i got my dealer on the line and he told the little faggot he would kill him if he didn't tell us. The guy wouldn't say so we left and went back to my house.
Not the cops. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
If you had lived in norway, you would have been rich now! you can drive into a shop and steal everything in the middle of the day without being caught r0fl.
Firstly, killing is not the best choice. Killing is cowardly. Wait years, then if you still feel the need for revenge, take it. Destroy him, but don't kill. Revenge is an art.
Secondly, running from the law is very difficult. Do you really want to live anyplace other than your home, America? If you decide to run, you better be a damn smart man. It's going to be fucking hard.
Personally, I think jail time is the best option. You probably won't be in there for 11 years. Think single digits. It's not too bad. They can lock you up, but they can't take your mind.
No, I'm saying that anyone who deals drugs isn't the scum of the earth. It doesn't matter if you're poor or rich to begin with, it just so happens that lower and middle class people are more often found to be drug dealers, and that richer people are the first ones to point out how bad they are. Don't you think that's a little biased? It's really easy to disagree with something if you've never actually experienced it personally.
Like really, you believe that the 'scum of the earth' are drug dealers? Are you fucking retarded? What about rapists, murderers, serial killers, fucking Somalian gangs who kidnap kids and raise them as soldiers, fucking corrupt politicians, like I can literally think of countless things that are far worse than drug dealers. Calling them the scum of the earth and agreeing that he should just do his hard time like it's standard is just absurd. It's really fucking easy to say shit like that when you live in a sheltered life.
I really don't know about Hvar. Last year drug dealers on the Island of Hvar were a very hot topic. The entire police squad was replaced.
If you come here and plan to make a new life without drugs, feel free to contact me or any other fellow TL member, but if you plan to take just 1 gram of any shit you used to do in the past, i'll be the next one to turn you in.
On March 24 2010 20:38 CharlieMurphy wrote: I do a lot of editing of my posts, i shouldn't cause people tend to quote them before I finished what I was saying. And how does that make your point?
You say: Put yourself in his shoes. If you were a drug dealer and some ass ratted you out, would you go down quietly or would save yourself somehow. Paraphrasing.
I say: No, that's disgusting.
I say: Put yourself in the shoes of the "rat". Your life is being threatened. You might be killed. Do you go down quietly or do you save yourself somehow.
You say: No, that's disgusting.
Sigh.
that's not even the same thing at all. Being a drug dealer or labeled as a drug dealer is entirely different than ratting out a friend to save your own neck.
And what you were saying was that you would never be a drug dealer. What I was saying, is what IF you were, ofc you would be trying to find ways out of going to prison, like who the fuck wants to go to prison. Regardless that you can't see yourself being a drug dealer.
A rat on the other hand is just a weakminded/pussy mentality. A state of mind. You can't really imagine yourself in a mentality that isn't your own. However you are always yourself, no matter where you go or what you do. That is what I meant.
And cops/detectives don't threaten death to squealers wtf? They make up bullshit stories and lie to you to get you to sign confessions and point fingers because they are brainwashed into thinking they are doing a great service to humanity or win their bonus checks or awards.
The "rat" was threatened with getting killed if he didn't tell them where the stuff was. I reckon that they used some force when threatening, if they don't shy away from telling him they're going to kill him.
How is being a "rat" bad by the way? Yes, in this case the person who squeeled was a weak person, who couldn't controll his urges and took the easy way out. However, when you see someone doing something illegal, getting the police involved is way better than looking the other way.
The world gets raped because enough people look the other way or feel to intimidated to do something about the corrupt and illegal things that they see happen around them.
On March 24 2010 21:03 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like really, you believe that the 'scum of the earth' are drug dealers? Are you fucking retarded? What about rapists, murderers, serial killers, fucking Somalian gangs who kidnap kids and raise them as soldiers, fucking corrupt politicians, like I can literally think of countless things that are far worse than drug dealers. Calling them the scum of the earth and agreeing that he should just do his hard time like it's standard is just absurd. It's really fucking easy to say shit like that when you live in a sheltered life.
+1
My thoughts exactly....couldn't of written it better myself.
On March 24 2010 21:03 CharlieMurphy wrote: No, I'm saying that anyone who deals drugs isn't the scum of the earth. It doesn't matter if you're poor or rich to begin with, it just so happens that lower and middle class people are more often found to be drug dealers, and that richer people are the first ones to point out how bad they are.
Like really, you believe that the 'scum of the earth' are drug dealers? Are you fucking retarded? What about rapists, murderers, serial killers, fucking Somalian gangs who kidnap kids and raise them as soldiers, fucking corrupt politicians, like I can literally think of countless things that are far worse than drug dealers. Calling them the scum of the earth and agreeing that he should just do his hard time like it's standard is just absurd. It's really fucking easy to say shit like that when you live in a sheltered life.
They are scum too lol
Charlie you are almost not worth talking to because you have such fucked up logic patterns but o well, we do it anyways.
Yep a rapist is worse, for me. yep a murderer is worse. Yep dictators are more evil. But that doesn't mean this guy, isn't a douche for making a living off of peddling life degrading addictive shit? I'm tired of people making excuses for people that clearly live a leeching life on a huge scale. He was pushing terrible material and you want to make stupid fucking generalizations like "there are worse people" and "rich people are the first to criticize" who gives a fuck what socio economic background you have.. the guy is CLEARLY an ass? It isn't like he turned to a life of crime to get his gramma the cancer treatment she needed or some shit.. he wanted money so he took the easy way out and it caught up to him. End of discussion.
God damn charlie.. you HAVE to be a character of some sort.
Personally I think you should be sent to jail. You broke the law...it is that plain and simple. I am sorry your life is falling apart around you...I can't imagine how you feel right now, but you did put yourself in this situation.
I think there is a time where you just have to face the music (I know this is easy for me to say not being in your situation) but like people were saying... plead guilty, be good while in jail, show them you want to better yourself while in, and you might be able to get out decently fast.
This would give you a chance to start over with a clean slate man. Do your time, clean yourself up, and in just a couple of years you could be out and leading a free life again. Anyways, good luck with whatever ends up happening and try to look 5 years down the road and pick the option that puts you in the best place!
and here we go with the "sheltered life" generalization too. Those assumptions are absurd and bad as well.
Did I grow up in compton? Nope. But I did have a single parent household where we moved 6 times in 3 years and had our house foreclosed a few times. I've seen more of my friends through rehab and suicide watch than I want to count. I've had to fill out witness reports for my coked out friend's arrest a few times in my life. Does that make me some kind of ultimate authority? No more than you.. but the difference is I look at these scenarios and think "there has to be a better way. This is bad." And you think "oh ok he had to do that cause life was hard."
Don't even get me started on your lil rant about "normal life" on the previous page. Knocking people that pursue a college degree and a family in the name of drug dealing? Fuck you.
If this guy can rat you out without any consequences from the dealer/supplier network, then you can rat your supplier in exchange for fewer prison years. If you can't rat your supplier because then the supplier will fuck your friends over (like in movies), then why doesn't he fuck that dude over that ratted on you?
Also, you can see 11 years in prison as practice time vs the cpu. Ask nony how you can get most out of it.
like hey, I could say American Football is fucking stupid. And people who watch it are a fucking disgusting. I could even see the world as a better place if it never existed. With all that wasted time of people trying to make it into the NFL, playing sports, whatever, they could actually learn something valuable for society, that actually contribute something other than mindless entertainment. Because after all, that's what drugs are, entertainment. Fuck football, anyone who plays it is fucking scum of the earth and should go to prison because I'd never play it and hate people who do, or even people who watch it. Oh you wanna argue that people die from drugs? Well how bout the well known statistic that football players have far shorter lives than that of normal people? Some of these guys even leave the league with permanent chronic injuries and end up broke a few years afterwords. They are basically used, in the same way drug dealers 'use' their drug buyers.
I could go on, but basically my point is that being a drug dealer is just another profession, just because you don't like it, or think it's bad, doesn't mean you should demonize it and be so quick to judge. Some people think it's good or that there is nothing wrong with it. Just because you conform with the possible majority or the government or the white collar public who doesn't know anything but what they media shows them about it doesn't mean it's right.
On March 24 2010 21:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: like hey, I could say American Football is fucking stupid. And people who watch it are a fucking disgusting. I could even see the world as a better place if it never existed. With all that wasted time of people trying to make it into the NFL, playing sports, whatever, they could actually learn something valuable for society, that actually contribute something other than mindless entertainment. Because after all, that's what drugs are, entertainment. Fuck football, anyone who plays it is fucking scum of the earth and should go to prison because I'd never play it and hate people who do, or even people who watch it. Oh you wanna argue that people die from drugs? Well how bout the well known statistic that football players have far shorter lives than that of normal people? Some of these guys even leave the league with permanent chronic injuries and end up broke a few years afterwords. They are basically used, in the same way drug dealers 'use' their drug buyers.
I could go on, but basically my point is that being a drug dealer is just another profession, just because you don't like it, or think it's bad, doesn't mean you should demonize it and be so quick to judge. Some people think it's good or that there is nothing wrong with it. Just because you conform with the possible majority or the government or the white collar public who doesn't know anything but what they media shows them about it doesn't mean it's right.
Yeah. And what about people who sell human skulls for a living. Like those people who go and grab random people off the street and cut their heads off to sell their skulls. After all, some people like to have human skulls as their mantle piece, and to them, having that skull may entertain them.
Oh you wanna argue that some people die from getting their heads cut off? Well its a known statistic that people who do drugs like heroine are more likely to do violent things and kill people or themselves. They are basically used, the same way head hunters 'use' their victims
I could go on but basically my point is that we can keep taking this argument to the next degree or we can realize that there comes a point where you have to draw a line. Moral absolution would only lead us to ban any activity at all that may hurt someone, or to allow all activity that hurts someone. Its only a question of when is it too much.
That sucks for you my friend, I wish you the best in the future! I hope when ur out of prison you will learn something. It's a hard and risky bisuness(or how you spell it), and too bad for you, police 14 nexsues you and won the game
I have to agree with Incontrol here, how can you talk about fotball players and drug dealers? Fotball players do 1 thing: play fotball, without knowing they may contribute to kill a person, a drug dealer does. He knows what he sells will kill a person..
"Everyone needs money", sure, but why not working as a gardener, or whatever legally and you may actually get something. There comes nothing positive out of going against the law, that's the way it is. That's why we have the police.
Drug dealing as a "job" is BULLSHIT! That can not be a job, it can be a hobby sure, but a job? comeone
As for killing the guy, I'd say no, from what you've told us you didn't really seem that close and you blaming all your misfortune on him is cowardly and stupid.
On March 24 2010 21:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: like hey, I could say American Football is fucking stupid. And people who watch it are a fucking disgusting. I could even see the world as a better place if it never existed. With all that wasted time of people trying to make it into the NFL, playing sports, whatever, they could actually learn something valuable for society, that actually contribute something other than mindless entertainment. Because after all, that's what drugs are, entertainment. Fuck football, anyone who plays it is fucking scum of the earth and should go to prison because I'd never play it and hate people who do, or even people who watch it. Oh you wanna argue that people die from drugs? Well how bout the well known statistic that football players have far shorter lives than that of normal people? Some of these guys even leave the league with permanent chronic injuries and end up broke a few years afterwords. They are basically used, in the same way drug dealers 'use' their drug buyers.
I could go on, but basically my point is that being a drug dealer is just another profession, just because you don't like it, or think it's bad, doesn't mean you should demonize it and be so quick to judge. Some people think it's good or that there is nothing wrong with it. Just because you conform with the possible majority or the government or the white collar public who doesn't know anything but what they media shows them about it doesn't mean it's right.
Yeah. And what about people who sell human skulls for a living. Like those people who go and grab random people off the street and cut their heads off to sell their skulls. After all, some people like to have human skulls as their mantle piece, and to them, having that skull may entertain them.
Oh you wanna argue that some people die from getting their heads cut off? Well its a known statistic that people who do drugs like heroine are more likely to do violent things and kill people or themselves. They are basically used, the same way head hunters 'use' their victims
I could go on but basically my point is that we can keep taking this argument to the next degree or we can realize that there comes a point where you have to draw a line. Moral absolution would only lead us to ban any activity at all that may hurt someone, or to allow all activity that hurts someone. Its only a question of when is it too much.
Your argument is invalid because skull hunters kill innocent people directly, whereas the drug dealers might be killing innocent people indirectly.
Over here in my part of the world we have the death sentence, your 11 years is nothing compared to what we have here.
Whatever Inc said is true. Don't kill that guy, not worth it. Do your time and come back to TL in 11 years changed, we'll still be here.
Might as well cover up your girlfriend and friends and take the fall for them, too, if you're feeling generous. You have a supporter. Just don't die on me now.
On March 24 2010 21:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: like hey, I could say American Football is fucking stupid. And people who watch it are a fucking disgusting. I could even see the world as a better place if it never existed. With all that wasted time of people trying to make it into the NFL, playing sports, whatever, they could actually learn something valuable for society, that actually contribute something other than mindless entertainment. Because after all, that's what drugs are, entertainment. Fuck football, anyone who plays it is fucking scum of the earth and should go to prison because I'd never play it and hate people who do, or even people who watch it. Oh you wanna argue that people die from drugs? Well how bout the well known statistic that football players have far shorter lives than that of normal people? Some of these guys even leave the league with permanent chronic injuries and end up broke a few years afterwords. They are basically used, in the same way drug dealers 'use' their drug buyers.
I could go on, but basically my point is that being a drug dealer is just another profession, just because you don't like it, or think it's bad, doesn't mean you should demonize it and be so quick to judge. Some people think it's good or that there is nothing wrong with it. Just because you conform with the possible majority or the government or the white collar public who doesn't know anything but what they media shows them about it doesn't mean it's right.
Yeah. And what about people who sell human skulls for a living. Like those people who go and grab random people off the street and cut their heads off to sell their skulls. After all, some people like to have human skulls as their mantle piece, and to them, having that skull may entertain them.
Oh you wanna argue that some people die from getting their heads cut off? Well its a known statistic that people who do drugs like heroine are more likely to do violent things and kill people or themselves. They are basically used, the same way head hunters 'use' their victims
I could go on but basically my point is that we can keep taking this argument to the next degree or we can realize that there comes a point where you have to draw a line. Moral absolution would only lead us to ban any activity at all that may hurt someone, or to allow all activity that hurts someone. Its only a question of when is it too much.
Your argument is invalid because skull hunters kill innocent people directly, whereas the drug dealers might be killing innocent people indirectly.
I see your point. Lets make it "skull dealers" then. Or even skull collectors maybe.
Well, you broke the most important rule in the life: never trust anyone, except yourself. Anyways, in your situation, I'd kill the rat if I had an opportunity to do it, hide/burn/annihilate the body, collect as much money as I can and then: a) and run to Mexico/Panama. b) get a good lawyer, you will probably get ~6 years, will let you out after 4 if you don't do anything stupid.
On March 24 2010 21:31 BaltA wrote: That sucks for you my friend, I wish you the best in the future! I hope when ur out of prison you will learn something. It's a hard and risky bisuness(or how you spell it), and too bad for you, police 14 nexsues you and won the game
I have to agree with Incontrol here, how can you talk about fotball players and drug dealers? Fotball players do 1 thing: play fotball, without knowing they may contribute to kill a person, a drug dealer does. He knows what he sells will kill a person..
"Everyone needs money", sure, but why not working as a gardener, or whatever legally and you may actually get something. There comes nothing positive out of going against the law, that's the way it is. That's why we have the police.
Drug dealing as a "job" is BULLSHIT! That can not be a job, it can be a hobby sure, but a job? comeone
Drugs can kill people, but it is purposely misleading to say that they will kill someone. How is drug dealing not a job? He is providing a service and receiving payment in return, which = a job. Nothing positive out of going against the law? Gandhi? Rosa parks? Protecting Jews in WW2? While he may not be as upstanding as those, your use of absolutes is incredibly short-sighted.
On March 24 2010 21:31 BaltA wrote: "Everyone needs money", sure, but why not working as a gardener, or whatever legally and you may actually get something. There comes nothing positive out of going against the law, that's the way it is. That's why we have the police.
Drug dealing as a "job" is BULLSHIT! That can not be a job, it can be a hobby sure, but a job? comeone
Gardening won't get you x (huge) amount of dollars. Drug dealing will, and that's the risk he took to try and get a large sum of money. That risk is not worth it for me, but I CAN completely understand the motivation to sell drugs in the first place. Unfortunately for him, he got caught and is -maybe- being imprisoned for far, far, far too long.
Naw the argument was still valid as skull hunters when compared to my analogy with football. Because you have football scouts, drafts, incentives, etc for players blah blah, you get the point. Disregarding the obvious mockery though, i'll reply to the last paragraph;
I could go on but basically my point is that we can keep taking this argument to the next degree or we can realize that there comes a point where you have to draw a line. Moral absolution would only lead us to ban any activity at all that may hurt someone, or to allow all activity that hurts someone. Its only a question of when is it too much.
The drawn line is a grey area, that is my whole point. People always like to bring their moral values as some kind of absolute law when in reality, people have different mentalities and moral outlooks, and especially when from different class/social status. When you come to a place as diverse and an internet forum you've gotta understand that, and realize that everything you think, or think you know is not always the way it should be.
Just because it so happens that current laws dictate and back up your thoughts, doesn't mean it's correct. In 50 or 100 years who knows how society will view it, how moral standards change, or even how the justice system deals with it. People are just so closed minded.
I mean the OP obviously fucked up and got busted. He is pretty emotionally unstable right now, and maybe saying some shit he doesn't intend or mean, and he felt like sharing it here (which was stupid imo but whatever). But that doesn't mean we should just call him the scum of the earth and hope he get's what he deserves. I mean he's already in deep shit, why you gotta make it worse for him when he's obviously asking for some advice or help or even just venting.
Think of the prison time as an opportunity to practice a lot of meditation and really get to know yourself without relying on drugs. Not that I'm anti-drugs but ultimately you need to be able to find depth in life without them. It's amazing how far meditation can take you particularly if you have all that time to practice. This video explains a meditation-in-prisons program running in India:
There are other things you can do in prison too- master an instrument or a foreign language etc.
Um do your time? You did something illegal and got caught. End of story. Next time you don't want to go to jail, don't do something illegal. I mean I guess I see the problem of not wanting to spend 11 years in jail, but really, I don't have much, if any, sympathy for you.
Why all you guys tell him to got to jail whereas he can still go back to Croatia ? "11 years for meditation, master an instrument or a foreign language" This has got to be a joke >.<
Sometimes my hands start shaking and I get a massive headache and can't sleep for weeks when I don't get a hit of 3-4 schemes and safety zone reads. Its like an addiction, man.
Take this from a guy who has seen a lot in the drug trade world. I've seen people that I would call friends go to prison and be in the exact same situation you are in. I've watched people leave the country albeit not my real friends but we'd call each other friends. I think I'm probably one of the few people that actually understands your situation man and can relate.
In all honesty man, and I think you know this as well, but don't want to accept it. Do the time.
Every big player in the game has the fantasy, of playing, using their brain and getting out before it gets too hot. Rarely happens. I think you're out of options man, fleeing the country probably wouldn't work initially and I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get through the airport anyway on a drug deal warrant, even if you did. You'd be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life. I've seen people like that first hand, it eats them up inside.
Killing the rat would make you feel better for a while. But after you wake up in a prison cell on your 50th birthday and forget what a womans touch is like I think you may regret that decision.
You're not an idiot, you played the game and lost. Do the time, you have one asset most drug dealers don't, a brain. Use it. Reduce the charges against you, work a deal. But be very very careful about ratting people out your self. Less rational people in the game may not think that far in to the future and probably value human life a lot less than yourself.
man you could get some sweet guitar chops in 11 years in prison, too bad they don't let you have strings on your guitar. Anyways, you should be safe over here with our joke of a police force.
I know you say you haven't posted your name, but if they've confiscated all your stuff, it's only a matter of time. You really should delete this, as it could be found and if you book the country, they will search your shit.
I don't want to come of as high and mighty, or as if I'm better than you, cause I'm not. But you made your living off the misery of other people, and you deserve all the jail time you get. I hope you don't murder the man who tipped off the police. It's not as if that will solve anything.
On March 24 2010 21:03 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like really, you believe that the 'scum of the earth' are drug dealers? Are you fucking retarded? What about rapists, murderers, serial killers, fucking Somalian gangs who kidnap kids and raise them as soldiers, fucking corrupt politicians, like I can literally think of countless things that are far worse than drug dealers. Calling them the scum of the earth and agreeing that he should just do his hard time like it's standard is just absurd. It's really fucking easy to say shit like that when you live in a sheltered life.
It might seem on the surface that drug dealers are not 'as bad' as those, but one issue that I can't ignore is that it's long term. The drug problem is going to live on because of people like this enabling it, destroying lives, society, people's futures and having a large negative influence.
On March 24 2010 21:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: like hey, I could say American Football is fucking stupid. And people who watch it are a fucking disgusting. I could even see the world as a better place if it never existed. With all that wasted time of people trying to make it into the NFL, playing sports, whatever, they could actually learn something valuable for society, that actually contribute something other than mindless entertainment. Because after all, that's what drugs are, entertainment. Fuck football, anyone who plays it is fucking scum of the earth and should go to prison because I'd never play it and hate people who do, or even people who watch it. Oh you wanna argue that people die from drugs? Well how bout the well known statistic that football players have far shorter lives than that of normal people? Some of these guys even leave the league with permanent chronic injuries and end up broke a few years afterwords. They are basically used, in the same way drug dealers 'use' their drug buyers.
I could go on, but basically my point is that being a drug dealer is just another profession, just because you don't like it, or think it's bad, doesn't mean you should demonize it and be so quick to judge. Some people think it's good or that there is nothing wrong with it. Just because you conform with the possible majority or the government or the white collar public who doesn't know anything but what they media shows them about it doesn't mean it's right.
Complete nonsense. If you want to look at it in a net positive/negative influence then do that, don't just pick one 'negative' aspect of it, exaggerate it, and call it as bad as drug dealing. Sports employ the players, who might have had no drive or ability to excel any way but athletically. They entertain people when entertainment is necessary - it doesn't have to be a mindless waste of time when you just want to unwind on a weekend (which is when sport is shown on TV). OK it can be dangerous but it also promotes a fit, active lifestyle and you run similar risks of injury on a daily basis.
etc. etc. etc. no matter how you look at it or what moral code you abide by, drugs are a net negative influence and a disservice to the world and undoes a lot of the things people work hard to improve.
EPT
