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[D] Broodlords too good vs P? - Page 15

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Adila
Profile Joined April 2010
United States874 Posts
April 23 2010 06:05 GMT
#281
On April 23 2010 14:39 oaax wrote:
Blink + Stalker + Stop beeing a nuub = PROFIT!


Yes... Blink into the mass of Hydralisks under the Broodlords...
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
April 26 2010 19:07 GMT
#282
i've seem protoss blink stalkers past the broodling line and under the broodlords, target-firing them
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2929 Posts
April 26 2010 19:17 GMT
#283
On April 27 2010 04:07 MindRush wrote:
i've seem protoss blink stalkers past the broodling line and under the broodlords, target-firing them


thats exactly what I did to defeat them, however the toss also had basically no ground army that was raped pretty quick by 6 colossi. I also hurt his econ pretty bad as a result but the game dragged on for much longer because of broodlords. I think in the hands of a great zerg player in a late game situation where both players are like on 4 bases their power may become pretty extreme.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
Kiarip
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1835 Posts
April 26 2010 19:18 GMT
#284
On April 22 2010 23:58 NightOne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2010 23:50 virusak wrote:
On April 22 2010 23:08 DorF wrote:
Archons kill broodlords , end of story

no they don't
isn't true 1on1 and isn't true even when you have more

On April 22 2010 23:46 NightOne wrote:
I haven't taken the time to read all 13 pages of this thread to see if this solution was mentioned, but I've heard some success stories with Blink along with my own success. You kind of have to make enough other "stuff" to hold off his other "stuff" while your stalker army blinks in and does its job.

and if he keeps his brood lords overhis "stuff" and you have nowhere to blink?


While your other "stuff' is engaging his "stuff" ie zealots vs zerglings (basic example) then you blink beside, or behind, or in front... the options are endless... well actually you have 4 in this example provided since you can't blink on top of the zerglings (you could but stalkers take a beating on top of cracklings).

Most likely, however, his broodlords will be behind his "stuff' because
a) they are slow moving and
b) the opponent probably wants zerglings in front in order to utilize broodlords longer range. (more likely)

Therefore what is likely to happen vs a smart opponent with brood+zling is this... you engange zerglings front line with broodlords support raping zealots. You blink behind zerglings, if he's smart he disengages with your zealots and starts hammering your stalkers with what is left of his zerglings and his fresh broodlords. You execute micro, attack-walk your stalkers toward the broodlords and blink into/ontop of the broodlords and destroy them while your zealots (hopefully with speed upgrade because you had researched bilnk on the same tech buildling) will clean up.

However, not ever situation is as basic as this one. More complex micro may and should be involved as the skill level gets higher. I don't believe that broodlords are imba or unbeatable, they are just hard and uncomfortable to play against. I don't anticipate a nerf of more than 2 damage to what they do really... think about how much damage guardians in Sc1 do? However, broodlings effing up your AI is a pain, especially for those utilizing attack-move (ie the archon vs broodlord video).



Yeah that's great and all except for how broodlords shoot broodlings, and your other "stuff" as protoss is going to want to attack the broodlings, which will result in your stalkers getting completely trashed if you decide to blink them closer to the broodlords
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
April 26 2010 19:26 GMT
#285
On March 05 2010 17:44 0neder wrote:
Can point defense drone intercept the broodlings?


Has anyone tested this?
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
April 26 2010 19:30 GMT
#286
On April 27 2010 04:26 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2010 17:44 0neder wrote:
Can point defense drone intercept the broodlings?


Has anyone tested this?

It does not intercept broodlings. The description of point defense drone tells you exactly what it does and does not stop.
KillaCherry
Profile Joined April 2010
United States7 Posts
April 26 2010 20:48 GMT
#287
Its crazy how every suggestion someone makes about a unit that could help toss in fighting off BL, some person comes with a random zerg unit that will counter even though it will not dominate the unit composition at that moment in time... Just be realistic about game situations. most BL armies will come with masshydra to fight off anti-air. having mutas with BLs defeats the purpose of having the broodlords against toss because they will just mass anti air. void rays and colossi with a small meat shield sounds viable. Im not saying that BLs arent or are OP im just sayin let strategies develop before all of you scream OP. overtime if you see that its is completely impossible toi stop a SCOUTED brood lord push, then BLIZZARD will see its OP and change it...
Dear Blizzard, fix your shit. Kthxbai... ;)
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
April 26 2010 20:53 GMT
#288
Someone mentioned in another thread that I thought was quite clever: Archons. They'll tear all Broodlings to pieces as they spawn. The Broodlings themselves are a bigger pain than the damage of the Broodlord's initial hit, because they cause your army to keep firing at them, but Archons will obliterate the things quickly and get your army shooting the right targets.

Haven't tried it in practice, but seems like it'll work. Just need a LOOOOOT of HTs to Psi Storm the crap out of everything and have a standing army of Archons ready.
WorkersOfTheWorld
Profile Joined April 2010
United States619 Posts
April 26 2010 22:36 GMT
#289
One of my few wins against Z who made it to BL included a lot of archons, but i had him drastically out econ'd so i'm not sure this would be viable in a more even based game. =/ I also carted around a warp prism to continually spam down more blink stalkers with my army.
Samwise: You don't want to play Dustin [Browder]. He can't even beat the UI, let alone the AI. -
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-26 23:37:54
April 26 2010 23:27 GMT
#290
Please note this is only theory - I do not have beta key, so take with grain of salt =)
What seems like best choice is Mothership, high number of blink stalkers and few sentries. The purpose of Mothership is to vortex enemy hydras, immediately after that blinking your stalkers under corruptors and broodlords and engaging with sentry+guardian shield and force fielding, if that will help.

Units coming out of vortex are completely surrounded. To this composition you can add a few colossi (depending on ratio of his BLs and hydras), but with that you probably need to snipe his overseer, which even if succesfull will be terribly costly. High templars can definately work too, but you need something to kill broodlings fast, because of range 6 on storm. Archons actually might work for that.
Containing hydras by FF if you are gonna do that is needed, they are killed by 2 storms (counting their regen in) You probably need insane micro for all of this, though =)
If the zerg player is not morphing his old corruptors, but new, you can always one shot them with feedback, but that's quite a gimmick.

Trying to kill his bases faster than he can kill yours is another option, not really good one though. =)

However, drop of 4 immortals sniping his greater spire can create huge opportunity for push, If he made 3+ broodlords it will still cost you a lot though. Problem with drop is that he probably has complete air superiority.

Another gimmick is to push hydras back fast with huge amount of FF and blinking insanely fast to kill as many air as you can.
This seems about the only things that can work, except for the awesome hallucination spam, of course all in all seems unproportionally hard to counter, if I could suggest a change, it would be something along lines of +2 to air attack of stalkers, to perserve the protoss flavor (I-cannot-counquer-air-).

Another thing to consider is that you are probably ahead in upgrades, if you do not build obscene amount of air units.

Edit: Not to mention that infestors completely kill my strategy (along with every strategy posted here so far IIRC) - effective radius of 10 on instant fungal growth is a lot.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
WorkersOfTheWorld
Profile Joined April 2010
United States619 Posts
April 26 2010 23:32 GMT
#291
I think it's just a tad far-fetched to assume the protoss has a mothership, high templar, blink stalkers, and colossi by the time the first brood lords are in play. That's fully upgraded units from all three tech lines and the mothership takes a whopping almost 3 mins to build herself. While vortex would provide a nice window to try and snipe the brood lords un-guarded. In practice i think you'd loose the mothership before it got in position more often than not. And if the vortex did manage to go off, you'd loose the ship immidiately there-after, and spend another ~3mins building a new one since you can only have 1 at a time.
Samwise: You don't want to play Dustin [Browder]. He can't even beat the UI, let alone the AI. -
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-26 23:52:00
April 26 2010 23:50 GMT
#292
While the Colossus is a tad far-fetched stalkers and templars (same tech) and mothership are IMO not. Templar tech is viable alternative to robo if I am not misinformed. Mothership will not be sniped THAT immediately. If we consider range of stalker (6) that is same as corruptors, and that mothership is holding about 2 (inches ?? ) back, all stalkers get 12 free damage on the corrs. Even pretending he has 10 corruptors (which is kind of ridiculous, pretending he also has about 30 hydras and 5 BLs :D) she gets shot down in about 7,6 seconds (slower speed ?).

Mothership is build in about 107 seconds if I didn't mess up math on chrono boost.
If this action is succesful however, you should expect to win by quite a large margin (even if losing mommaship) which should allow you to destroy zergs expansion, if nearby (considering how small maps now are, there should ).
It is a far shot, but I think one of the best presented so far.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
April 27 2010 02:17 GMT
#293
I wish people would stop saying archons are counters to brood lords. They are NOT by any means a half-decent counter to brood lords if the opponent has any form of micro at ALL. Your archons will NEVER EVER even touch the brood lords.

Currently, the only good counter to BL toss has is blinking stalkers. However, stalkers get murdered really quickly by mass hydras, which will accompany the BLs 99% of the time. In other words, you will be basically sacrificing almost all of your stalkers in order to kill the BLs. Yes, protoss should have colossi in order to kill the hydras, along with sentries and zealots for extra support, but the colossi will not kill the hydras quickly enough so that you don't sustain massive stalker casualties. Again, BLs are NOT undefeatable but protoss absolutely needs an economic advantage prior to BLs coming into play or they will almost always lose.
WormSy
Profile Joined March 2010
France30 Posts
April 27 2010 02:35 GMT
#294
Funny thing is that decent toss WILL HAVE huge economic advantage when Z got BL after the huge tech path, thanks to stalker / force field / immortal / colossus =)
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-27 03:09:30
April 27 2010 03:06 GMT
#295
I know your gonna pound me for not having a source but I recall somewhere reading that Broodlords are getting looked at for possible nerfing. Not just because of there attack but the 250 hp as well. I believe the article also had dustin browder talking about how lurkers were originally a tier 3 unit but didnt fit and how ultralisks dont get used much and are basically useless.
:)
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
April 27 2010 03:15 GMT
#296
Funny thing is that decent toss WILL HAVE huge economic advantage when Z got BL after the huge tech path, thanks to stalker / force field / immortal / colossus =)

What? When does the protoss ever have a HUGE econ advantage in PvZ lol. After powering drones in early game zerg is usually ahead then it seems to even out, but i would never say the protoss has a econ advantage unless the zerg is doing something horribly wrong
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
j4vz
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada976 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-27 03:20:25
April 27 2010 03:19 GMT
#297
i didnt read the whole thread but stalker + blink is very good against broodlord, you blink over the broodling and focus fire the broodlord and good game.

you just need to dont care about broodling and shot the broodlord down asap.
someone_elses_lies@live.fr
xnub
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada610 Posts
April 27 2010 03:27 GMT
#298
Broodlords are just really strong vers ever race lol all you can really do is Viks/Phoenix/Void Ray or suicide your blinking stalker/stimed marines pasted the meat shield or hope there is no meat shield : P.
Loving the beta !! Weeeeeeee
WorkersOfTheWorld
Profile Joined April 2010
United States619 Posts
April 27 2010 07:01 GMT
#299
On April 27 2010 11:35 WormSy wrote:
Funny thing is that decent toss WILL HAVE huge economic advantage when Z got BL after the huge tech path, thanks to stalker / force field / immortal / colossus =)


Yea, if the zerg forgets what corrupters, infestors, roaches, and hydras are, sure.
Samwise: You don't want to play Dustin [Browder]. He can't even beat the UI, let alone the AI. -
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
April 27 2010 07:08 GMT
#300
I agree, broodlords are too good vs Protoss. The reason they're too good, however, isn't their high damage and hitpoints, it's the broodlings they shoot. The hitpoint buffer they provide against the enemy cluster is just too powerful. And this is why I propose they shoot banelings instead.

Thoughts?
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
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