On August 09 2009 21:29 iamho wrote:
bisu has to be a little pissed, hes out of the individual leagues and only got to play a single game in POs against a b-teamer. what other S-class player would be in a similar situation?

What other S-class player is out of every league?

D:

Heimatloser

Germany1494 Posts

August 10 2009 11:56 GMT

#3022

On August 10 2009 10:32 Kyuukyuu wrote:

Show nested quote +

What other S-class player is out of every league?

D:

Flash and Stork ;-)

Harem

United States11393 Posts

August 10 2009 12:18 GMT

#3023

On August 10 2009 09:29 koreasilver wrote:

Show nested quote +

I disagree. I believe you're behind if you 9pool vs 1gate tech.

Especially if you got speed first. -_-

Loanshark

China3094 Posts

August 10 2009 12:20 GMT

#3024

On August 10 2009 20:56 Heimatloser wrote:

Show nested quote +

Flash and Stork ;-)

Stork still counts as S class?

Flash is in GOM.

geod

Vietnam450 Posts

August 10 2009 13:37 GMT

#3025

On August 10 2009 21:20 Loanshark wrote:

Show nested quote +

Stork still counts as S class?

Flash is in GOM.

But not in PowerRank

nayumi

Australia6499 Posts

August 10 2009 13:42 GMT

#3026

Who are classified as S-class players? Is there like a set of criteria or it's just us who are making the choice?

Carnac

Germany / USA16648 Posts

August 10 2009 13:47 GMT

#3027

It's arbitrary

Nylan

United States795 Posts

August 10 2009 14:04 GMT

#3028

SC Card Game begs to differ :p

lIlIlIlIlIlI

Korea (South)3851 Posts

August 10 2009 14:27 GMT

#3029

--- Nuked ---

Heimatloser

Germany1494 Posts

August 10 2009 21:41 GMT

#3030

well well, one could say that there is an a class in chess, and since we have this nice elo system...
copied from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_systems#Harkness_system
Category Rating range
Grandmaster 2600 and up
Senior master 2400-2599
Master 2200-2399
Expert 2000-2199
Class A 1800-1999
Class B 1600-1799
Class C under 1600

so a class is below 2000.
i always thought what you call "s-class" should be "senior master" class, but looking at it now we overgone the "master"
and we have many master.

tree.hugger

Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts

August 10 2009 21:52 GMT

#3031

Starcraft ELO-wise, the magic number is 2300. Only five players have ever gotten over that hump, two are bonjwas, and the other three are not, only because they've all risen during the post-sAviOr era.

An S-Class player overall is probably one who's ELO is almost always between 2200 and 2300. This is a fairly exclusive club, but one that applies to about 10 or so players. That sounds appropriate.
To say that a player has "S-Class" ability in one match-up, it looks like clearing 2100 is a more reasonable metric.

So 2200+ overall, 2100 + for a match-up.

+ Show Spoiler +

But actually, this isn't even that reliable. Apparently, (T)

DarkElf still has a higher vZ ELO than (T)

fantasy. Go figure.

fusionsdf

Canada15390 Posts

August 10 2009 22:02 GMT

#3032

keep in mind for elo that not only are there more games now (this means that a player from back then would have to be dominant over a longer timespan to achieve the same ELO as today's players and conversely today's players have more immediate games to practice for) but ELO is by nature inflationary.

KeSPA rank is even worse, since they changed it right after saviors dominance and right at the start of bisu's

Avidkeystamper

United States8556 Posts

August 10 2009 22:07 GMT

#3033

Yes, ELO has inflated, but it would hardly account for more than 4 points. It doesn't even matter that the players play "noobs" in proleague.
The biggest reason why players today have a higher elo is that they play more games, allowing the elo to more accurately reflect a player's peak. At savior's peak, if he played more games, would he have gotten a higher ELO? Maybe, but only at his very peak, not his era.
ELO is not inflationary by nature.

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

August 10 2009 22:25 GMT

#3034

On August 11 2009 06:41 Heimatloser wrote:
well well, one could say that there is an a class in chess, and since we have this nice elo system...
copied from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_systems#Harkness_system
Category Rating range
Grandmaster 2600 and up
Senior master 2400-2599
Master 2200-2399
Expert 2000-2199
Class A 1800-1999
Class B 1600-1799
Class C under 1600

so a class is below 2000.
i always thought what you call "s-class" should be "senior master" class, but looking at it now we overgone the "master"
and we have many master.

Do it by matchup - 2200. It's not definite, but it's pretty accurate. S-class just means in a league of their own. Anyone with 2200 + in a matchup is going to be in the top 5 or 6 of their race in that matchup of all time (Exception being TvZ - there are 9 Terrans with this).

Calling some player S-class overall is really hard, but saying that Bisu has s-class pvp is still a given, and it's apparent that he's still not far off from having S-Class pvz and pvt - 1 or 2 games would ensure it. (he's 2194 in pvt and 2188 in pvz).

Same for Yarnc's zvt, JD's zvz, July's ZvP - these are players who are better at these matchups than anyone else playing. (JD is also 2211 in zvp). A player just straight up better in everything, doesn't exist anymore. Also, if they're peaking very close to it like Iris I would say they likely do as well (he's 2190 in TvZ atm).
Interestingly enough, the only player at this level in every matchup right now is Flash. It's not really accurate for Fantasy because his Elo is still peaking, and that means that it isn't stable. And his tvp is very close, had he won over Bisu he would definitely be 3rd best tvp of all time - after Flash and oov.

Right now there are 2 people 2200+ vs T (Bisu 6 points away), 2 people 2200+ vs Z (Iris 2190, Bisu 2188), and 4 people 2200 + vs P, with fantasy 7 points away- a statement about how poor protoss has done this season.

Stratos_speAr

United States6959 Posts

August 10 2009 22:33 GMT

#3035

I don't know about you guys, but S-Class to me just seems to be that class of players that are the clear favorites against others and when they face off against each other, everyone goes, "Oh damn, this should be a sick match." This would include Jaedong, Bisu, Flash, and Fantasy (for me anyway). They're the players that you, right off the top of your head, name off as the best in the league without thinking about it at all.

Heimatloser

Germany1494 Posts

August 10 2009 22:37 GMT

#3036

make a new topic regarding this. i actually enjoy reading this;-)

so basically we said "s-class of starcraft" is like "chess master", and we dont have any senior masters yet.

Rostam

United States2552 Posts

August 10 2009 22:40 GMT

#3037

On August 11 2009 07:37 Heimatloser wrote:
make a new topic regarding this. i actually enjoy reading this;-)

so basically we said "s-class of starcraft" is like "chess master", and we dont have any senior masters yet.

There was a thread about something like this a while back

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83029

Obviously not up to date, I guess it would be interesting to see what it would look like now.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

August 10 2009 23:50 GMT

#3038

On August 11 2009 06:41 Heimatloser wrote:
so a class is below 2000.
i always thought what you call "s-class" should be "senior master" class, but looking at it now we overgone the "master"
and we have many master.

The thing is, Elo systems are all different. Different systems have different starting point amounts, maximum points lost, etc, so the categories from chess really don't translate at all to Starcraft. IMO the thread Rostam linked is probably the closest we have to a system for it.

dybydx

Canada1764 Posts

August 11 2009 01:58 GMT

#3039

lets just take the individuals who has been at the top 5 ranked KeSPA and top 5 ELO rated in at least 2 out of the last 3 month of each race as S-Class.

i mean ELO ratings are really relative to your opponents anyways.