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Haha, Iris pushing with goli/tank/vultz, Tempest is short on units, because of the recalls. Nice statis from Tempest, damn, freezes like 5 tanks and vessels :/
so Tempest's mistake was trying to focus fire the CC down in his first recall and attempting a second recall which left his reserve forces too thin to defend against Iris's push?
On July 12 2009 18:40 Atrioc wrote: map had absolutely nothing to do with Iris winning -_-
its actually a very solid P map and the stats are 13-13 50%
It is a relatively new map, Flash just exposed how to play TvZ on it last game, Iris did exact same thing that "no one but Flash can do".
Oh, you're back to troll again, Mr. "I don't play SC but I feel fully qualified to comment on balance"? Did you know - Tempest played like absolute garbage after getting a huge lead and didn't even build this unit Protoss has called a High Templar which is kind of useful in long PvTs? Go ahead and keep commenting though.
Idra next bonjwa, yeah sure lol. He is just winning "everything" BIAS more please. How can he be a bonwja when he keeps getting owned by the chineese..
As for him participating in foreign leagues, many leagues excludes Chinese because they have their own leagues, guess what, so does Idra. He has a progamer liscense for gods sake. Considering chinese are banned from most tournements (because they lag and because they beat everyone) Idra will win pretty much every tournement there is. So does it really help the foreign scene to have someone win every tournement? I seriously doubt that, and if i was in rets shoes I would be pretty pissed. Getting beaten in an amateur tournement by a professional.
Idra doesnt get to talk to other koreans because he is to lazy to learn korean, BOOHOO Funny that Artosis uses thats as a reason for him to play in foreign tournements, that basically says all about his good reasoning
On July 12 2009 19:31 Chanted wrote: Idra next bonjwa, yeah sure lol. He is just winning "everything" BIAS more please. How can he be a bonwja when he keeps getting owned by the chineese..
As for him participating in foreign leagues, many leagues excludes Chinese because they have their own leagues, guess what, so does Idra. He has a progamer liscense for gods sake. Considering chinese are banned from most tournements (because they lag and because they beat everyone) Idra will win pretty much every tournement there is. So does it really help the foreign scene to have someone win every tournement? I seriously doubt that, and if i was in rets shoes I would be pretty pissed. Getting beaten in an amateur tournement by a professional.
Idra doesnt get to talk to other koreans because he is to lazy to learn korean, BOOHOO Funny that Artosis uses thats as a reason for him to play in foreign tournements, that basically says all about his good reasoning
On July 12 2009 19:31 Chanted wrote: Idra next bonjwa, yeah sure lol. He is just winning "everything" BIAS more please. How can he be a bonwja when he keeps getting owned by the chineese..
As for him participating in foreign leagues, many leagues excludes Chinese because they have their own leagues, guess what, so does Idra. He has a progamer liscense for gods sake. Considering chinese are banned from most tournements (because they lag and because they beat everyone) Idra will win pretty much every tournement there is. So does it really help the foreign scene to have someone win every tournement? I seriously doubt that, and if i was in rets shoes I would be pretty pissed. Getting beaten in an amateur tournement by a professional.
Idra doesnt get to talk to other koreans because he is to lazy to learn korean, BOOHOO Funny that Artosis uses thats as a reason for him to play in foreign tournements, that basically says all about his good reasoning
shut up ,you know nothing.
The guy has a point man, just cause he was born in USA doesn't mean he should play foreign tournaments. The guy is a progamer now, he should make an example of himself and do well in Korean leagues.
Jaedong won one season of GOM. Now he's just going to keep winning the showmatches against all the other winners, to show that he's just letting people win. JD's just being nice, honest.
Man that last match was very terrible... How is he going to lose to basically the first 6 zerglings? If he wasn't Jaedong he would be laughed at like any D+ iccup player.
But on a lighter note, this is just one less thing JD has to worry about. Sure it was nice because of the money, but as far as prestige goes it was the worst of the tournaments and by getting out of this one he'll be able to focus on the OSL and MSL as well as the PL.
I'm glad that this is the first one he's out of considering the possibilities.
On July 12 2009 19:41 Nokeboy wrote: Man that last match was very terrible... How is he going to lose to basically the first 6 zerglings? If he wasn't Jaedong he would be laughed at like any D+ iccup player.
This is so mean to bash on Lower skilled players.
To bad Jaedong is really really of his form. Something must have happened.
In MSL, before the match between Kal and JD, the commentators mentioned that when they had a conversation with Jaedong, he questioned how many more times must he win. I guess in other words, they were trying to point out that JD is starting to get tired of winning. =\
On July 12 2009 19:43 HuskyTheHusky wrote: I hope blizzard still invites jaedong anyway.... i really was looking forward to seeing him once before sc2 comes out... sigh
i dont care if they take out a foreigner invite for jaedong :D
Jaedong won't win the OSL what are you guys smoking? He's experiencing the winners curse guys; it's happened to every big name ever and just like oov, after winning the second title life gets really fucking hard.
On July 12 2009 19:41 Nokeboy wrote: Man that last match was very terrible... How is he going to lose to basically the first 6 zerglings? If he wasn't Jaedong he would be laughed at like any D+ iccup player.
This is so mean to bash on Lower skilled players.
To bad Jaedong is really really of his form. Something must have happened.
Jaedong was averaging .7 televised games a day, hes probably burnt out.
On July 12 2009 19:44 ghermination wrote: was that a 12hat? wth jaedong what were you even thinking? Maybe he threw the game so he had more free time.
what are you talking about?
Effort had just better micro than JD, the 12hatch didnt do too much damage
are we even watching the same game? jaedong maybe could have salvaged the 12 hat but then he a-moved into efforts lings which were surrounding the ramp.
You don't need superior game sense or to invent personal drama, when the reason JD has dropped a few games is as clear as fucking day. Take it easy freud's
On July 12 2009 19:46 Plexa wrote: Jaedong won't win the OSL what are you guys smoking? He's experiencing the winners curse guys; it's happened to every big name ever and just like oov, after winning the second title life gets really fucking hard.
yeah that's the same thing people said right after the OSL when he started losing like 3 games. But then he started destroying everyone again.
If he gets kicked out of the msl while defeating Kal this OSL is his.
hmm I wonder why Jaedong went 9pool and 12hatch. Wouldn't it be safer to just go 12pool and bank on your superior midgame ZvZ if you lack practice time?
On July 12 2009 19:41 MapleLeafSirup wrote: i don't think jaedong cares too much about GOM bad play though
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care at all about the $4000 he could've won right there.
Since most of his accommodations are paid for by sponsors and hes probably got one of the biggest contracts going, hes probably not to worried about the money.
On July 12 2009 19:50 kNyTTyM wrote: hmm I wonder why Jaedong went 9pool and 12hatch. Wouldn't it be safer to just go 12pool and bank on your superior midgame ZvZ if you lack practice time?
On July 12 2009 19:46 Plexa wrote: Jaedong won't win the OSL what are you guys smoking? He's experiencing the winners curse guys; it's happened to every big name ever and just like oov, after winning the second title life gets really fucking hard.
yeah that's the same thing people said right after the OSL when he started losing like 3 games. But then he started destroying everyone again.
If he gets kicked out of the msl while defeating Kal this OSL is his.
Well he he was knocked out of the OSL just like oov, and oov also didn't really slump at all and won his 2nd OSL in the same time it took jaedong to win another OSL.
no come on dude...you could expect a 12hatch in a 4 player map, but on outsider its straight up risky...dude...i just dont understand. JD is not the type of ZvZ player that goes for the BO advantage, (for example game #1) if he had won the first game and wanted to go for a risky build in the 2nd game, sure what the hell. but being down 0-1 and 12 hatching...and what was up with game 1? he came up with an absolutely brilliant strategy which worked 100% as he planned it, except for its aftermath. when JD goes for one of these awesome tactics he takes his precautions, like gets a sunken or whatever, but he plans ahead. this time, it seemed like he just expected effort not to counter after he got more lings. but why? its something so predictable, usually in ZvZ the person who is aggressive at first may do some damage but eventually he will be turned back on the defensive (assuming the game hasnt already ended). this is exactly my problem, why did jaedong not plan ahead? his nat was up and he could have made a sunken, heck 2 if he wanted to cuz he killed a lot of drones. or if anything he should have reinforced...
On July 12 2009 19:53 WrongEdge wrote: Effort show some impressive ZvZ there. Guess he knew he wasnt going to beat jaedong when it came down to Muta vs Muta so he ling rushed Jaedong twice.
Best zergling micro hands down
Effort fighting.
Technically the first game was a counter to jaedongs ling rush and the second game was normal 9pool timing.
On July 12 2009 19:41 MapleLeafSirup wrote: i don't think jaedong cares too much about GOM bad play though
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care at all about the $4000 he could've won right there.
Since most of his accommodations are paid for by sponsors and hes probably got one of the biggest contracts going, hes probably not to worried about the money.
JD its bad I think that he should go on the army and start playing on ACE... he is done for sure.
yeah right.. just 2 games man... people tend to forget fast... remember yesterday?? playing against someone with a nick Kal?? he just pwned him like a D+ Toss. Effort just played better tonight and thats it... its not Jaedong dropping the games or a Slump -.-
On July 12 2009 19:41 MapleLeafSirup wrote: i don't think jaedong cares too much about GOM bad play though
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care at all about the $4000 he could've won right there.
He could have cared more on winning the OSL but, it's still far away.OSL>Gom prestige-wise. Though, he should have won this game. He should have microed his hardest during game 1. He already had the strategical advantage against effort in game 1. T_T
12 hat on Outsider is greedy. Sometimes I dont understand. The 7pool build he did on HBR was beautiful, but he made some very unjaedongish ZvZ decisions that game...
That series felt so weird, was really not the JD I'm used to watch. Almost as he didnt care.
--
Plexa; if anyone would prove you wrong on this it's JD. JDs biggest opponent has always been himself, I hope this dropout of GOM will allow some breathing...
Go JD! And grats to Effort - here's for hoping that we'll see Flash vs Effort in the finals.
On July 12 2009 19:53 UGC4 wrote: no come on dude...you could expect a 12hatch in a 4 player map, but on outsider its straight up risky...dude...i just dont understand. JD is not the type of ZvZ player that goes for the BO advantage, (for example game #1) if he had won the first game and wanted to go for a risky build in the 2nd game, sure what the hell. but being down 0-1 and 12 hatching...and what was up with game 1? he came up with an absolutely brilliant strategy which worked 100% as he planned it, except for its aftermath. when JD goes for one of these awesome tactics he takes his precautions, like gets a sunken or whatever, but he plans ahead. this time, it seemed like he just expected effort not to counter after he got more lings. but why? its something so predictable, usually in ZvZ the person who is aggressive at first may do some damage but eventually he will be turned back on the defensive (assuming the game hasnt already ended). this is exactly my problem, why did jaedong not plan ahead? his nat was up and he could have made a sunken, heck 2 if he wanted to cuz he killed a lot of drones. or if anything he should have reinforced...
why JD why T^T
Actually, Game 1 JD's play was seriously risky in the moment where effort moved his lings out. JD had to choices, send his lings back and defend, or send his lings to effort's main and backstab and pray that effort sends all his lings back to defend, Effort made the right decision and went for the kill, so JD got mauled by inferior ling numbers at his main. It was risky play, I dont know why JD did that either when he killed quite a few drones to make up for bos in the begining. And game 2 was ugh bo win T.T.
On July 12 2009 19:41 MapleLeafSirup wrote: i don't think jaedong cares too much about GOM bad play though
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care at all about the $4000 he could've won right there.
He could have cared more on winning the OSL but, it's still far away.OSL>Gom prestige-wise. Though, he should have won this game. He should have microed his hardest during game 1. He already had the strategical advantage against effort in game 1. T_T
Of course OSL has more prestige, but this was $4000 for one bo3. Not exactly pocket change for anyone.
On July 12 2009 19:56 FranzF1 wrote: JD its bad I think that he should go on the army and start playing on ACE... he is done for sure.
yeah right.. just 2 games man... people tend to forget fast... remember yesterday?? playing against someone with a nick Kal?? he just pwned him like a D+ Toss. Effort just played better tonight and thats it... its not Jaedong dropping the games or a Slump -.-
Yeah, jaedong is definitely not slumping. ZvZ normally looks like beatdowns due to how fast the games go. But jaedong is still the best choice to take the OSL and MSL.
yes samachking thats exactly what im asking. okay, suppose JD practices this with somebody, which he clearly did by the simple fact that he came up with a great strategy. he doesnt just practice the scenario where he tricks the opponent and that person goes "omg wtf more lings than i expect oh im done gg", he had to also practice the scenario where, after he didnt reinforce, his opponent countered. but did he? he did have 4 lings to either go back or go all in like u said, but why only 4 lings is the question? it would have been so so stupid for effort to go back (which he kinda did but then he didnt) it was obvious...i just dont think JD followed up his strategy properly at all...
On July 12 2009 19:31 Chanted wrote: Idra next bonjwa, yeah sure lol. He is just winning "everything" BIAS more please. How can he be a bonwja when he keeps getting owned by the chineese..
As for him participating in foreign leagues, many leagues excludes Chinese because they have their own leagues, guess what, so does Idra. He has a progamer liscense for gods sake. Considering chinese are banned from most tournements (because they lag and because they beat everyone) Idra will win pretty much every tournement there is. So does it really help the foreign scene to have someone win every tournement? I seriously doubt that, and if i was in rets shoes I would be pretty pissed. Getting beaten in an amateur tournement by a professional.
Idra doesnt get to talk to other koreans because he is to lazy to learn korean, BOOHOO Funny that Artosis uses thats as a reason for him to play in foreign tournements, that basically says all about his good reasoning
I don't understand all these excuses and "oh he just doesn't care" shit people are pulling out. JD got outplayed, by a better player, that's all there is to it. Effort rocks.
On July 12 2009 20:05 UGC4 wrote: yes samachking thats exactly what im asking. okay, suppose JD practices this with somebody, which he clearly did by the simple fact that he came up with a great strategy. he doesnt just practice the scenario where he tricks the opponent and that person goes "omg wtf more lings than i expect oh im done gg", he had to also practice the scenario where, after he didnt reinforce, his opponent countered. but did he? he did have 4 lings to either go back or go all in like u said, but why only 4 lings is the question? it would have been so so stupid for effort to go back (which he kinda did but then he didnt) it was obvious...i just dont think JD followed up his strategy properly at all...
I think Effort thought jaedong had more lings incoming and then realised there were only 4 and went for the counter
Honestly this is a bit overhyped. JD has lost a ZvZ series before btw (to July in WCG) and looking at the games the only thing that was a bit worrying was his decision to send the 4 lings in for a backstab after his successful early aggression. That wasn't smart and EffOrt played it out 100% perfectly by sending only 2 lings back and rushing the rest to JD's base. If this game showed one thing its that EffOrt isnt just another zerg. He is practicing just as hard as JD and that "wiggle room" that JD has in ZvZ because of his micro does not exist when he plays Effort. Its an even match.
Everyone can call game 2 greedy but honestly its just ZvZ. If Effort had gone 12 pool or even just 9 pool JD mightve had a decent shot but 9 pool speed completely slammed the door shut and thats just luck of the draw.
I'm hope they will meet up again in MSL and we can have some more opportunities to see how this plays out.
On July 12 2009 20:06 psion0011 wrote: I don't understand all these excuses and "oh he just doesn't care" shit people are pulling out. JD got outplayed, by a better player, that's all there is to it. Effort rocks.
Game 2 was not being outplayed, game 1 was being outplayed for sure though. Game 2 was just a plain bo win, if JD went 9pool speed in game 1 he would have won directly too, but thats how mirrors work.
On July 12 2009 20:06 psion0011 wrote: I don't understand all these excuses and "oh he just doesn't care" shit people are pulling out. JD got outplayed, by a better player, that's all there is to it. Effort rocks.
Game 2 was not being outplayed, game 1 was being outplayed for sure though. Game 2 was just a plain bo win, if JD went 9pool speed in game 1 he would have won directly too, but thats how ZvZ's work.
On July 12 2009 19:41 MapleLeafSirup wrote: i don't think jaedong cares too much about GOM bad play though
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care at all about the $4000 he could've won right there.
He could have cared more on winning the OSL but, it's still far away.OSL>Gom prestige-wise. Though, he should have won this game. He should have microed his hardest during game 1. He already had the strategical advantage against effort in game 1. T_T
Of course OSL has more prestige, but this was $4000 for one bo3. Not exactly pocket change for anyone.
the winner of gom gets 30'000$ (40million won) not 4'000 i f i remember correctly.
On July 12 2009 19:41 MapleLeafSirup wrote: i don't think jaedong cares too much about GOM bad play though
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care at all about the $4000 he could've won right there.
He could have cared more on winning the OSL but, it's still far away.OSL>Gom prestige-wise. Though, he should have won this game. He should have microed his hardest during game 1. He already had the strategical advantage against effort in game 1. T_T
Of course OSL has more prestige, but this was $4000 for one bo3. Not exactly pocket change for anyone.
the winner of gom gets 30'000$ (40million won) not 4'000 i f i remember correctly.
1- i agree "jd doesnt care" is irrelevant, JD vs Effort is the equivalent of bisu vs stork or flash vs leta right now, even if it was for fuckin battle.net attack they would play their best, regardless of money, tournament standing, etc. they are just race-rivals and thats what race-rivals do, they play their best against each other (stork, who has been rather inconsistent lately, played his best against the better-at-that-time bisu last time they met). so hell yeah JD cares.
2- how can you guys really say effort outplayed JD in game one? okay, he won that game, but mind you, what JD did was certainly a fuckin pimpest play in my book, just by the mere thought of it. that right there won me over and im not even a jaedong fan, but it shows class, something new in a very standard mirror match up. just so lamentable that he didnt follow up properly, but cmon...effort is good hes great he kicks ass yes he sure does...but outclassing someone like JD takes a lottt more than 2 wins, one by BO advantage. at least for me it does...
On July 12 2009 19:41 MapleLeafSirup wrote: i don't think jaedong cares too much about GOM bad play though
Yeah I'm sure he didn't care at all about the $4000 he could've won right there.
He could have cared more on winning the OSL but, it's still far away.OSL>Gom prestige-wise. Though, he should have won this game. He should have microed his hardest during game 1. He already had the strategical advantage against effort in game 1. T_T
Of course OSL has more prestige, but this was $4000 for one bo3. Not exactly pocket change for anyone.
the winner of gom gets 30'000$ (40million won) not 4'000 i f i remember correctly.
Great play by effort. Despite not seeing Jaedongs hidden lings in game 1 still coming back from that really shows great understanding of zvz mechanics and great micro.
And to all the fanboys in denial, yes even Jaedong can loose a bo3 in zvz against the second best zerg in the world without dropping games on purpose.
On July 12 2009 20:09 Atrioc wrote: Honestly this is a bit overhyped. JD has lost a ZvZ series before btw (to July in WCG) and looking at the games the only thing that was a bit worrying was his decision to send the 4 lings in for a backstab after his successful early aggression. That wasn't smart and EffOrt played it out 100% perfectly by sending only 2 lings back and rushing the rest to JD's base. If this game showed one thing its that EffOrt isnt just another zerg. He is practicing just as hard as JD and that "wiggle room" that JD has in ZvZ because of his micro does not exist when he plays Effort. Its an even match.
Everyone can call game 2 greedy but honestly its just ZvZ. If Effort had gone 12 pool or even just 9 pool JD mightve had a decent shot but 9 pool speed completely slammed the door shut and thats just luck of the draw.
I'm hope they will meet up again in MSL and we can have some more opportunities to see how this plays out.
I agree totally with you when you say that these wins are overhyped. I'm really disappointed in reading comments that effort outclassed jaedong or whatever. JD lost two games but it wasn't because effort was playing on another level or whatever, I'm sure that these guys could trade victories all day long because that's just how good they both are and how fickle a matchup ZvZ is.
BTW, it's even more disappointing to see people complain about how JD lost so easily to 6 lings when he did a 12 hatch build against a 9 pool, do you guys even play ZvZ past the D level at all? I mean, he microed the drones as well as he possibly could have, but a guy of Effort's calibre is never going to lose in that situation where he completely bo rapes his opponent. He smartly ran back and positioned lings below JD's ramp so that he could nullify any possible newly hatched lings from the expo, while maintaining a superior position incase of an attack.
n1 eff0rt. after he dropped out of OSL cause of flashs cheese i was really disappointed, but beating jd 2-0 is a nice compensation. hope jd can at least win one SL now with his slightly reduced practice schedule
On July 12 2009 20:34 SuperKiller wrote: You could see in jaedong's eyes that he was very tired. He looked relieved to me when the games were over.
That's going to be the Jaedong fans No.1 excuse whenever Jaedong drops games. No matter how good the opponent is, no matter how strategic was the play, if Jaedong loses, it's only because Jaedong was tired. Effort only "won" because Jaedong was tired.
I really really hate observations like this. It's not even an observation to me, it's just personal bias. Though I failed at LB, grats to the winner - Effort.
On July 12 2009 19:46 Plexa wrote: Jaedong won't win the OSL what are you guys smoking? He's experiencing the winners curse guys; it's happened to every big name ever and just like oov, after winning the second title life gets really fucking hard.
yeah that's the same thing people said right after the OSL when he started losing like 3 games. But then he started destroying everyone again.
If he gets kicked out of the msl while defeating Kal this OSL is his.
Well he he was knocked out of the OSL just like oov, and oov also didn't really slump at all and won his 2nd OSL in the same time it took jaedong to win another OSL.
I expect Jaedong to slump like a mofo now
If that happens, Oz is going to have to enjoy a straight plummet to the bottom tier rankings
that losing 3 zvz in a row causes that much drama and speculation about dropping or being on a slump is the greatest testimonial of how great jd is in zvz.
effort today showed that he is a vital rival to jds zvz and z in general - he has the potential to throw jd of his throne. but i wouldnt overrate what happened today because jd really seemed very tired and burnt out. he probably didnt practice nearly as much for this as he would have if he had a looser schedule. so imho it was 100% effort vs 95% jd. that jaedong doesnt win against effort like this on the other hand is maybe the biggest testimonial of efforts rising star. but well, what do u expect if some1 is coached by the maestro himself?
On July 12 2009 21:11 Black Gun wrote: that losing 3 zvz in a row causes that much drama and speculation about dropping or being on a slump is the greatest testimonial of how great jd is in zvz.
effort today showed that he is a vital rival to jds zvz and z in general - he has the potential to throw jd of his throne. but i wouldnt overrate what happened today because jd really seemed very tired and burnt out. he probably didnt practice nearly as much for this as he would have if he had a looser schedule. so imho it was 100% effort vs 95% jd. that jaedong doesnt win against effort like this on the other hand is maybe the biggest testimonial of efforts rising star. but well, what do u expect is some1 is coached by the maestro himself?
If I remember correctly, the maestro also taught Jaedong in the past? (I think from one of the Final Edits or some article)
Gotta love how people chalk up JD's loss to random excuses, when really, can you think of any Zerg besides JD that's better than Effort? Effort is a serious contender for the #2 Zerg spot, and is without a doubt in the top 10 of SC players in Korea. His performance clearly shows that.
On July 12 2009 21:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: Gotta love how people chalk up JD's loss to random excuses, when really, can you think of any Zerg besides JD that's better than Effort? Effort is a serious contender for the #2 Zerg spot, and is without a doubt in the top 10 of SC players in Korea. His performance clearly shows that.
?? Effort is most definitely the number 2 Zerg haha
On July 12 2009 21:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: Gotta love how people chalk up JD's loss to random excuses, when really, can you think of any Zerg besides JD that's better than Effort? Effort is a serious contender for the #2 Zerg spot, and is without a doubt in the top 10 of SC players in Korea. His performance clearly shows that.
?? Effort is most definitely the number 2 Zerg haha
There's really no other "serious contenders"
umm? Zero? Yarnc? Calm? There is more competition for zergs than any race right now, the proof of it is look how many Zergs are in tourneys and are actually doing well right now. The 2nd best Zerg will be determined this season, one of these underdog competitors will win a SL this season for sure and determine who the no2 Zerg is.
On July 12 2009 21:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: Gotta love how people chalk up JD's loss to random excuses, when really, can you think of any Zerg besides JD that's better than Effort? Effort is a serious contender for the #2 Zerg spot, and is without a doubt in the top 10 of SC players in Korea. His performance clearly shows that.
I'd say EffOrt is easily the #2 Zerg. The competition? Yarnc, Zero, and Calm. Since Yarnc will crash if he has to play Protoss, and Calm doesn't have the starleague record to really judge (but then, neither does Effort) or the micro to be a top-tier ZvZer, the closest challenger imo is Zero. Zero's very good, of course, but he's just not consistent enough to really be #2, meaning the spot is all EffOrt's.
Now, does Effort challenge for #1 Zerg yet on the basis of this win? That's a really interesting question, but my gut feel is "no". Other results will tell better though. My Zerg ranking looks something like this:
0. KONG 1. Jaedong . . 2. Effort . 3. Zero 4. Calm . 5. Yarnc
After these guys, you have Kwanro, July and by.hero who are threats. Then decent Zergs like by.great, 815, and even sAviOr (how the mighty have fallen). And Luxury goes in there somewhere if he stops playing like a tool.
On July 12 2009 20:34 SuperKiller wrote: You could see in jaedong's eyes that he was very tired. He looked relieved to me when the games were over.
That's going to be the Jaedong fans No.1 excuse whenever Jaedong drops games. No matter how good the opponent is, no matter how strategic was the play, if Jaedong loses, it's only because Jaedong was tired. Effort only "won" because Jaedong was tired.
I really really hate observations like this. It's not even an observation to me, it's just personal bias. Though I failed at LB, grats to the winner - Effort.
Thing is, he did look tired. That's not an excuse--it's his problem--but the fact remains that for the last week, Jaedong face has looked weary rather than deadly, and his play has been below standard (for him). Until I see a new look on Jaedong's face, I expect his current slump to continue.
Jaedong meh. Well at least it was effort, someone that I like.
Flash vs July: Should be a walkover for Flash really. Im hoping Flash won't resort to lame pure mech builds.
Effort vs Iris: It is regarded that a team-mate TvZ favours the Terran more (July said this back then). So effort might struggle through this one, but should still win I think.
On July 12 2009 19:31 Chanted wrote: Idra next bonjwa, yeah sure lol. He is just winning "everything" BIAS more please. How can he be a bonwja when he keeps getting owned by the chineese..
As for him participating in foreign leagues, many leagues excludes Chinese because they have their own leagues, guess what, so does Idra. He has a progamer liscense for gods sake. Considering chinese are banned from most tournements (because they lag and because they beat everyone) Idra will win pretty much every tournement there is. So does it really help the foreign scene to have someone win every tournement? I seriously doubt that, and if i was in rets shoes I would be pretty pissed. Getting beaten in an amateur tournement by a professional.
Idra doesnt get to talk to other koreans because he is to lazy to learn korean, BOOHOO Funny that Artosis uses thats as a reason for him to play in foreign tournements, that basically says all about his good reasoning
shut up ,you know nothing.
Yeah and you do ? Dumbass
I do, actually, while you don't. First of all, i can understand that Greg bm'ed/owned your ass and you are butthurt, therefore no common sense will appeal to you, but whatever.
As for him participating in foreign leagues, many leagues excludes Chinese because they have their own leagues, guess what, so does Idra. He has a progamer liscense for gods sake. Considering chinese are banned from most tournements (because they lag and because they beat everyone) If they are banned, its only becouse of lag, nothing else.Them having own leagues has nothing to do with it, they aren't even close to korean level, no matter what crap they will say in interviews.
Idra has license, wohooo, that makes him unbeatable!Idra is nowhere near A team player's level whom we watch everyday, and even if he was - is it his fault that others have no time/ such means of practice?Yeah thats right, its not, and you should be fucking happy that he finds time to participate in all these tourneys, while representing us in Korea.
Hes better than every other foreigner atm?Sure,good for him, he plays in all these leagues to win, not to please your sorry ass and lose.Do you want to ret to get banned from them also becouse he pretty much rapes everyone except Idra, and plays vs estro pros, while even taking single games off them?
And don't even try to put yourself in ret's shoes, this sentence is just ridiculous:
if i was in rets shoes I would be pretty pissed. Getting beaten in an amateur tournement by a professional.
Idra doesnt get to talk to other koreans because he is to lazy to learn korean, BOOHOO Funny that Artosis uses thats as a reason for him to play in foreign tournements, that basically says all about his good reasoning
As for language part, try learning korean while playing Starcraft 8-10h/day?Yeah right, he does not do that so Artosis has excuse when Idra loses.Pretty sure you would pick korean,french and play on the stock market while making it there to A team.
On July 12 2009 23:06 Highways wrote: Jaedong meh. Well at least it was effort, someone that I like.
Flash vs July: Should be a walkover for Flash really. Im hoping Flash won't resort to lame pure mech builds.
Effort vs Iris: It is regarded that a team-mate TvZ favours the Terran more (July said this back then). So effort might struggle through this one, but should still win I think.
Effort vs Flash finals would be great.
July just has to 4 pool, or 9 pool, or anything that's aggressive to kill Flash based on his last 5 games.
I hope he'll be able to perform better now that he's out of GOM. Playing below his standard due to a packed schedule is really bad for any player. I feel that Effort can take this now; he's simply playing at a higher level than any of the other semifinalists.
On July 12 2009 20:34 SuperKiller wrote: You could see in jaedong's eyes that he was very tired. He looked relieved to me when the games were over.
That's going to be the Jaedong fans No.1 excuse whenever Jaedong drops games. No matter how good the opponent is, no matter how strategic was the play, if Jaedong loses, it's only because Jaedong was tired. Effort only "won" because Jaedong was tired.
I really really hate observations like this. It's not even an observation to me, it's just personal bias. Though I failed at LB, grats to the winner - Effort.
Thing is, he did look tired. That's not an excuse--it's his problem--but the fact remains that for the last week, Jaedong face has looked weary rather than deadly, and his play has been below standard (for him). Until I see a new look on Jaedong's face, I expect his current slump to continue.
The schedule was really tough for Jaedong but it was also tough for other top players like Effort, Flash or even Bisu. All of them were playing subpar in some games.
On July 13 2009 00:53 n.DieJokes wrote: I blame JWD's power rank; every person he favors crash's the next month. Zero, Bisu, Effort and now Jaedong
...None of those guys really crashed that badly. If JD keeps going like this, it'll be a crash, but it hasn't been that bad.
But yea, I think this is good for everyone - JD can focus on getting a Golden Mouse, Effort (being knocked out of the MSL or OSL, don't remember which one) can focus on getting his first SL win, and we can see new players come up (or possibly old players returning to win - Berserker or July winning would be SWEET).
As for the matches, I think Effort is favored over Berserker. While they're both good, Effort is far more consistent. July vs. Flash is kind of even. You might look at it and say that Flash is better nowadays and July is past his prime, but July has been playing really well and Flash's TvZ has been lackluster, at best, as of late.
On July 13 2009 02:27 MrHoon wrote: everyone is constantly talking about an Effort vs Flash Final. It cannot happen. Flash and Effort are on the same bracket.
This will be a Flash/Effort vs July/Iris Final.
You know they are playing Flash vs July next week?
On July 13 2009 02:27 MrHoon wrote: everyone is constantly talking about an Effort vs Flash Final. It cannot happen. Flash and Effort are on the same bracket.
This will be a Flash/Effort vs July/Iris Final.
The english gomtv site has really messed up brackets. The korean site has July/Flash and Effort/Iris for the semis.
Jaedong had to practice for his game versus Kal yesterday, while Effort could soley focus on ZvZ. Extra practice time goes a long way against a top player who has less time (Effort did play awesome though- his ZvZ is shaping up to be monstrous).
On July 13 2009 03:21 HuskyTheHusky wrote: Yeah waking up I see it wasnt all just a dream. To think I'll have to watch effort at Blizzcon instead of Jaedong makes me a sad, sady panda indeed.
He doesnt speak english and never smiles... I dont think any of the koreans going to Blizzcon do.
If JD drops his series vs ZerO or Kal, then I think it can be safe to say he's in a slump because two leagues without PL isn't too much to handle. Right now, I wouldn't call it slumping. Good thing this thread didn't shape up to be a flamewar.
On July 13 2009 03:21 HuskyTheHusky wrote: Yeah waking up I see it wasnt all just a dream. To think I'll have to watch effort at Blizzcon instead of Jaedong makes me a sad, sady panda indeed.
He doesnt speak english and never smiles... I dont think any of the koreans going to Blizzcon do.
I often disagree with these arguments that jaedong has to practice for too many leagues so that he couldn't prepare enough for this match etc. etc. the maps in GOM are not different from the other leagues and he DID practice a lot of zvz in the past because he had 2 zergs in his OSL group only because he practiced 2 days vs p because of his match vs kal doesn't mean that he is totally out of practice in zvz... he even had 1 day time to "get back into zvz"
i do agree with people saying he is tired and stuff but not that he is our of practice
On July 13 2009 04:39 MapleLeafSirup wrote: I often disagree with these arguments that jaedong has to practice for too many leagues so that he couldn't prepare enough for this match etc. etc. the maps in GOM are not different from the other leagues and he DID practice a lot of zvz in the past because he had 2 zergs in his OSL group only because he practiced 2 days vs p because of his match vs kal doesn't mean that he is totally out of practice in zvz... he even had 1 day time to "get back into zvz"
i do agree with people saying he is tired and stuff but not that he is our of practice
It isn't just about practicing a matchup, it's also about devising a strategy that works against a given player. E.g. just practicing basic vT won't prepare you equally well against radically different players such as Flash and Boxer. You need to analyze the weaknesses of your opponent and create a suitable strategy that you practice. Considering JD until today was in three individual leagues, as well as having pressure on him to do well and prepare for PL, it's no surprise he would be exhausted without proper preparation. Combine that with GOM being the least prestigious of the leagues and Effort being the second best zerg in the world, the result isn't surprising.
It isn't just about practicing a matchup, it's also about devising a strategy that works against a given player. E.g. just practicing basic vT won't prepare you equally well against radically different players such as Flash and Boxer. You need to analyze the weaknesses of your opponent and create a suitable strategy that you practice. Considering JD until today was in three individual leagues, as well as having pressure on him to do well and prepare for PL, it's no surprise he would be exhausted without proper preparation. Combine that with GOM being the least prestigious of the leagues and Effort being the second best zerg in the world, the result isn't surprising.
i agree with what you said but effort was one of the two zergs he played in OSL so he was prepared for effort's playstyle
I don't think it's that JD was overpracticed but probably that he just had an off-night. I didn't see the VODs yet because gom is all gay and makes me wait an extra day to watch, but I assume effort also played very well. JD is far enough ahead of most Zs that he can come back from a disadvantage, but it appears that effort is good enough that he can consistently ride an advantage to victory vs JD.
From the LRs, I think in the first game Effort went for some kind of 7 pool or something weird like that and the second game was 9 pool speed vs 12 hatch, which for some reason wasn't instant loss but neither game went to mutas.
I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
On July 13 2009 05:45 TwoStep wrote: From the LRs, I think in the first game Effort went for some kind of 7 pool or something weird like that and the second game was 9 pool speed vs 12 hatch, which for some reason wasn't instant loss but neither game went to mutas.
First game was JD going overpool or 9 ( i can't remember) then he hides lings so ovie only sees 2)
Effort went 12pool expand and was able to hold it off. Then just runs JD over with mass speedlings.
On July 13 2009 05:46 disciple wrote: I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
remember how Bisu was kicked out of the MSL during that period?
jaedongs decision in game 1 to not send lings right away was probably bad. Effort already knew jaedong had a slower hatch and thus could gain an advantage in lings. So he was going to make lings most likely either way. Jaedong lost the harassment which we saw in game 2 when effort sent his lings right away. This is funny becuz when jaedong played by.hero, jaedong used the same build twice in the first two games then beat by.hero using the build that was tried against him, which effort did to jaedong
On July 13 2009 05:46 disciple wrote: I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
remember how Bisu was kicked out of the MSL during that period?
yes, exactly, but he played a lot more.
Besides he blamed the maps for his losses, which caused a massive hate explosion in the community. JD is playing now half the games KTY did back than and gets all the sympathy in the world "Poor JD, had to play too much". No? His opponents right now are not doing anything extraordinary, in all the games Jaedong lost he just played sloppy and bad, simple as that...
On the other hand he showed no weaknesses in the longer macro orientated game vs Kal, so I wonder if his opponents are not going to just rush the shit out of him in the next weeks or so, to try to exploit his early game mistakes of late. Just like go.go, yellow and zero ganged Bisu with non-standard strategies
On July 13 2009 08:41 FranzF1 wrote: LOL raped?? what???' The 90% of ZvZ looks like rape just cus its a fast match....
i dunno man... when effort came in with almost a control group of zerglings in game 2 when JD didnt even have his pool done yet... kinda looked like a rape to me... it actually looked really painful watching it live... seeing someone with an unbeatable matchup get run over like that...
On July 13 2009 08:41 FranzF1 wrote: LOL raped?? what???' The 90% of ZvZ looks like rape just cus its a fast match....
i dunno man... when effort came in with almost a control group of zerglings in game 2 when JD didnt even have his pool done yet... kinda looked like a rape to me... it actually looked really painful watching it live... seeing someone with an unbeatable matchup get run over like that...
That its just standard zvz... it was a BO advantage... effort played really good, the best part was on the ramp... he killed 6 JD lings and lost only 3 but like on PvP position its the only thing that matters.
On July 13 2009 08:41 FranzF1 wrote: LOL raped?? what???' The 90% of ZvZ looks like rape just cus its a fast match....
i dunno man... when effort came in with almost a control group of zerglings in game 2 when JD didnt even have his pool done yet... kinda looked like a rape to me... it actually looked really painful watching it live... seeing someone with an unbeatable matchup get run over like that...
That its just standard zvz... it was a BO advantage... effort played really good, the best part was on the ramp... he killed 6 JD lings and lost only 3 but like on PvP position its the only thing that matters.
Right now Im thinking GOM: Flash - Which will be cool as then the big three will have won one season each, over their 1.5 year of dominance.
OSL: Jaedong - He would be the third Golden Mouse winner, and become the most accomplished Zerg player of all time.
MSL: Bisu - He would be the first player to ever win 4 MSLs which would be nice.
Then Leta could win WCG Korea, and Effort win PL with CJ, which would give some gold to each of the top 5 players.
Obviously the MSL is still pretty open as 4 of the players are still in it. In GOM there is only Flash and Effort, and in OSL there is Jaedong and Leta. WCG and PL is still wide open.
On July 13 2009 10:25 Guybrush wrote: Right now Im thinking GOM: Flash - Which will be cool as then the big three will have won one season each, over their 1.5 year of dominance.
OSL: Jaedong - He would be the third Golden Mouse winner, and become the most accomplished Zerg player of all time.
MSL: Bisu - He would be the first player to ever win 4 MSLs which would be nice.
Then Leta could win WCG Korea, and Effort win PL with CJ, which would give some gold to each of the top 5 players.
Obviously the MSL is still pretty open as 4 of the players are still in it. In GOM there is only Flash and Effort, and in OSL there is Jaedong and Leta. WCG and PL is still wide open.
On July 13 2009 10:25 Guybrush wrote: Right now Im thinking GOM: Flash - Which will be cool as then the big three will have won one season each, over their 1.5 year of dominance.
OSL: Jaedong - He would be the third Golden Mouse winner, and become the most accomplished Zerg player of all time.
MSL: Bisu - He would be the first player to ever win 4 MSLs which would be nice.
Then Leta could win WCG Korea, and Effort win PL with CJ, which would give some gold to each of the top 5 players.
Obviously the MSL is still pretty open as 4 of the players are still in it. In GOM there is only Flash and Effort, and in OSL there is Jaedong and Leta. WCG and PL is still wide open.
Get this "then everyone's happy" crap outta here! CJ for PL! EffOrt for GOM/MSL/WCG!
On July 13 2009 06:11 Instigata wrote: jaedongs decision in game 1 to not send lings right away was probably bad.
I agree. IIRC, Jaedong 9pooled in the first game, which should have been an easy win against EffOrt's 12hatch (like happened the other way around in the second game), but because he held back the lings, the second hatchery was already available to pump lings when he got there. Jaedong's micro and small-scale decision-making also seemed poor during that battle.
To me, EffOrt's play in both games reminded me a lot of how Jaedong usually wins zvzs: through flawless micro and insightful small-scale decision-making.
On July 13 2009 10:25 Guybrush wrote: Right now Im thinking GOM: Flash - Which will be cool as then the big three will have won one season each, over their 1.5 year of dominance.
OSL: Jaedong - He would be the third Golden Mouse winner, and become the most accomplished Zerg player of all time.
MSL: Bisu - He would be the first player to ever win 4 MSLs which would be nice.
Then Leta could win WCG Korea, and Effort win PL with CJ, which would give some gold to each of the top 5 players.
Obviously the MSL is still pretty open as 4 of the players are still in it. In GOM there is only Flash and Effort, and in OSL there is Jaedong and Leta. WCG and PL is still wide open.
What about Canata, why does he always get the short end of the stick.
On July 13 2009 10:25 Guybrush wrote: Then Leta could win WCG Korea, and Effort win PL with CJ, which would give some gold to each of the top 5 players.
I know you said Leta, but if you're talking top 5 players, I'm sure you meant fantasy... right?
GOM: EffOrt - I said at some point that the winner of the JD-EffOrt match would take it. Not like that's a ballsy prediction or anything, but yeah, it'll happen. EffOrt is too good, better than Flash.
OSL: fantasy - will finally take the OSL over Leta. He'll 3-2 Jaedong in a great series and prove conclusively that he's the strongest Terran in the game.
That's the ultimate happy predictions; the top 6 players in three finals.
On the other side of things, amazing for EffOrt to take out JD, what a pro. I had a strange, vivid dream right before I woke up that Jaedong had won 2-1. Those dreams always convince me that they're correct, it's weird, sometimes they are. Silly subconscious.
On July 13 2009 12:12 udgnim wrote: just realized Flash vs Effort would be even better for GOM finals because Flash cheesed Effort to eliminate him from OSL
On July 13 2009 10:25 Guybrush wrote: Right now Im thinking GOM: Flash - Which will be cool as then the big three will have won one season each, over their 1.5 year of dominance.
OSL: Jaedong - He would be the third Golden Mouse winner, and become the most accomplished Zerg player of all time.
MSL: Bisu - He would be the first player to ever win 4 MSLs which would be nice.
Then Leta could win WCG Korea, and Effort win PL with CJ, which would give some gold to each of the top 5 players.
Obviously the MSL is still pretty open as 4 of the players are still in it. In GOM there is only Flash and Effort, and in OSL there is Jaedong and Leta. WCG and PL is still wide open.
Ya I was thinking of the Flash/Bisu/Jaedong sweep as well. But fuck Effort because T1 is going to win proleague.
On July 13 2009 13:28 koreasilver wrote: Holy hell Jaedong lost a BO series against a Zerg 2:0?
What happened.
You're experiencing the same chain reaction that I am.
1.) Angry. 2.) Ready for Jonny or Nevake to upload. 3.) Ready to wear black and mourn the >80% ZvZ bragging rights gone. 4.) The protoss passed his ELO. More sobbing. T.T 5.) Acceptance.
On July 13 2009 05:46 disciple wrote: I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
remember how Bisu was kicked out of the MSL during that period?
yes, exactly, but he played a lot more.
Besides he blamed the maps for his losses, which caused a massive hate explosion in the community. JD is playing now half the games KTY did back than and gets all the sympathy in the world "Poor JD, had to play too much". No? His opponents right now are not doing anything extraordinary, in all the games Jaedong lost he just played sloppy and bad, simple as that...
On the other hand he showed no weaknesses in the longer macro orientated game vs Kal, so I wonder if his opponents are not going to just rush the shit out of him in the next weeks or so, to try to exploit his early game mistakes of late. Just like go.go, yellow and zero ganged Bisu with non-standard strategies
Bisu said so many stupid ass things couple months ago Thank god he fixed up
On July 13 2009 05:46 disciple wrote: I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
remember how Bisu was kicked out of the MSL during that period?
yes, exactly, but he played a lot more.
Besides he blamed the maps for his losses, which caused a massive hate explosion in the community. JD is playing now half the games KTY did back than and gets all the sympathy in the world "Poor JD, had to play too much". No? His opponents right now are not doing anything extraordinary, in all the games Jaedong lost he just played sloppy and bad, simple as that...
On the other hand he showed no weaknesses in the longer macro orientated game vs Kal, so I wonder if his opponents are not going to just rush the shit out of him in the next weeks or so, to try to exploit his early game mistakes of late. Just like go.go, yellow and zero ganged Bisu with non-standard strategies
eh.... what are your exact time frames? I really dont think bisu played too many more games than Jaedong has been playing.....
On July 13 2009 05:46 disciple wrote: I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
remember how Bisu was kicked out of the MSL during that period?
yes, exactly, but he played a lot more.
Besides he blamed the maps for his losses, which caused a massive hate explosion in the community. JD is playing now half the games KTY did back than and gets all the sympathy in the world "Poor JD, had to play too much". No? His opponents right now are not doing anything extraordinary, in all the games Jaedong lost he just played sloppy and bad, simple as that...
On the other hand he showed no weaknesses in the longer macro orientated game vs Kal, so I wonder if his opponents are not going to just rush the shit out of him in the next weeks or so, to try to exploit his early game mistakes of late. Just like go.go, yellow and zero ganged Bisu with non-standard strategies
Bisu said so many stupid ass things couple months ago Thank god he fixed up
His steroid allegations still remain unnoticed by MrHoon.
Flash v Effort is going to be way more epic than JD v Flash imo because both players will probably play standard macro games. Not two hatch muta... every game
On July 13 2009 15:42 TwoStep wrote: 2 hatch muta is now the standard response to mech.
I could be wrong but I think mech nowadays is a response to 2 hatch muta, not the other way around... most players who go MnM vs two hatch get slaughtered and 2 hatching became widely popular again when JD used it against Flash in GOMS1 where Flash didn't mech once (and got slaughtered by it.)
Zergs still 2 hatch because it works against mech, and if on the off chance the terran goes for MnM they can just 2 hatch muta ftw. That's why in alot of ways I feel like 2 hatch muta sort of ruined TvZ even though people blame it on mech.
Again, maybe I'm totally wrong.. this is just how I saw it happen.
Nono, 2 hatch muta is to negate any early vulture pressure. Any slower and the zerg is forced to get hydras out early. In comparison, 2 hatch offers a smoother transition to mutas to contain the terran and to get a better eco. I'm just assuming that because all the zergs go 2 hatch vs terran nowadays. Sometimes even earlier vs Flash's mechionic builds.
muta micro has gotten so good that 2-hatch is just safer nowadays than 3-hatch. Not so much vs early game aggression (such as 2rax acad builds or something) but vs most cheesy/semi-cheesy terran things (like 2-port wraith or fantasy build etc).
On July 13 2009 05:46 disciple wrote: I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
remember how Bisu was kicked out of the MSL during that period?
yes, exactly, but he played a lot more.
Besides he blamed the maps for his losses, which caused a massive hate explosion in the community. JD is playing now half the games KTY did back than and gets all the sympathy in the world "Poor JD, had to play too much". No? His opponents right now are not doing anything extraordinary, in all the games Jaedong lost he just played sloppy and bad, simple as that...
On the other hand he showed no weaknesses in the longer macro orientated game vs Kal, so I wonder if his opponents are not going to just rush the shit out of him in the next weeks or so, to try to exploit his early game mistakes of late. Just like go.go, yellow and zero ganged Bisu with non-standard strategies
eh.... what are your exact time frames? I really dont think bisu played too many more games than Jaedong has been playing.....
Jaedong : 06.01 - 07.13 : 24 games Bisu: 01.01 - 02.13: 33 games alright, its not the half, but if jaedong doest play like one game in two days till the end of this month it will get somewhere around 60%. But 9 games more in 40 days period is a lot nevertheless
Watched the games. Iris is an aggressive badass as always. Effort won, while it is somewhat of an upset, Effort's zvz is pretty beastly. Sucks for Jaedong. Guess he should win OSL to get golden mouse (even before Savior could.......;_;). Effort vs Iris semis is going to be badass. Anyone remember Savior vs Iris semis in the OSL aka BEST BO5 EVER? If both these guys are playing at the top of their game, it's going to be intense. Maybe not as much as before because of gay mech builds =(
I kind of want Iris to win a major title because he really deserves it imo. Getting really close all the time, but not achieving it. Iris for MSL, Effort for Gom, Jaedong for OSL, CJ for Proleague please =]
On July 13 2009 05:46 disciple wrote: I understand your concern about JD's tiredness and stamina issues but, actually he is not playing that very much... I mean 15 or so games last month, 9 games in this so far... this is like half the games Bisu played in the Jan/Feb this year (around 50 games in total). Maybe its just the summer I guess he will suck for another like week or so, thankfully he has relatively easy schedule - no PL matches to think of just for now, zvz vs ZerO and zvp vs Kal being game up. Nothing to worry about
remember how Bisu was kicked out of the MSL during that period?
yes, exactly, but he played a lot more.
Besides he blamed the maps for his losses, which caused a massive hate explosion in the community. JD is playing now half the games KTY did back than and gets all the sympathy in the world "Poor JD, had to play too much". No? His opponents right now are not doing anything extraordinary, in all the games Jaedong lost he just played sloppy and bad, simple as that...
On the other hand he showed no weaknesses in the longer macro orientated game vs Kal, so I wonder if his opponents are not going to just rush the shit out of him in the next weeks or so, to try to exploit his early game mistakes of late. Just like go.go, yellow and zero ganged Bisu with non-standard strategies
eh.... what are your exact time frames? I really dont think bisu played too many more games than Jaedong has been playing.....
Jaedong : 06.01 - 07.13 : 24 games Bisu: 01.01 - 02.13: 33 games alright, its not the half, but if jaedong doest play like one game in two days till the end of this month it will get somewhere around 60%. But 9 games more in 40 days period is a lot nevertheless
The only reason he has so many more games is that he was in the wildcard tournament where he had to play all those games in 1 night (as did everyone else he played). While it was very impressive that he went undefeated, you must admit that's not the same/as demanding as normally scheduled matches where you know who you are playing beforehand.
On July 13 2009 15:51 TwoStep wrote: Nono, 2 hatch muta is to negate any early vulture pressure. Any slower and the zerg is forced to get hydras out early. In comparison, 2 hatch offers a smoother transition to mutas to contain the terran and to get a better eco. I'm just assuming that because all the zergs go 2 hatch vs terran nowadays. Sometimes even earlier vs Flash's mechionic builds.
2 hatch muta does not negate early vulture pressure. When T sends only 1 vult, you need a sunken. If T goes 2 fact speed vults and tries a runby you need hydras to cover ramp/clean up the rest. it happens before mutas spawn.
i actually saw these later on aswell, was afraid to comment because of the hate i'd get ;p Jaedong losing 0-2 ofcourse made me to hate the whole GOM.. nahh Flash beating both July & EffOrt should still be worth watching!
effort and jaedong have played six games against each other in 2009, and it's 3-3, with Effort taking the only series (2-0). jaedong's best mu too, which makes it even more impressive.
for all the people claiming fluke or bo win or whatever, it's pretty clear that it's not a fluke anymore now that they've played each other multiple times (and probably will play each other in the MSL again). also, BO wins are part of ZvZ, great ZvZ players find a way to play safe and not die even when they have inferior BO positions. in this series, it was pretty stupid for JD to 12h when he clearly should've done a safer 12p; all it means is that JD felt that he needed every advantage he could get against Effort.
hilarious thread. I knew it would be with all the annoying jd fanboys around these parts.... JD underestimated effort! JD is just sooooo busy! JD dropped the games on purpose! JD is relieved to be out of GOM, JD was sooo tired, its ok he didnt care about GOM anyway~!
On July 19 2009 05:39 zOula... wrote: hilarious thread. I knew it would be with all the annoying jd fanboys around these parts.... JD underestimated effort! JD is just sooooo busy! JD dropped the games on purpose! JD is relieved to be out of GOM, JD was sooo tired, its ok he didnt care about GOM anyway~!
On July 19 2009 05:39 zOula... wrote: hilarious thread. I knew it would be with all the annoying jd fanboys around these parts.... JD underestimated effort! JD is just sooooo busy! JD dropped the games on purpose! JD is relieved to be out of GOM, JD was sooo tired, its ok he didnt care about GOM anyway~!
I think July was the only guy who really cares about GOM.
At the absolute least, Jaedong cares more about OSL and MSL moreso.
That said, it's a true feat that Effort took a series ZvZ off Jaedong. He's one of two people to do it, and that's damn impressive, no matter the circumstances. I just don't think a 2-0 win in GOM (that has weird upset voodoo magic) should relegate Effort to "just as good at ZvZ as Jaedong," like some people seem to suggest. If anyone really thinks that, then they are very short sighted or haven't been watching Jaedong for the past 2 years.
On July 19 2009 05:39 zOula... wrote: hilarious thread. I knew it would be with all the annoying jd fanboys around these parts.... JD underestimated effort! JD is just sooooo busy! JD dropped the games on purpose! JD is relieved to be out of GOM, JD was sooo tired, its ok he didnt care about GOM anyway~!
yeah they are really fucking annoying
Who's the guy posting 10 days after it's already over?
On July 19 2009 05:39 zOula... wrote: hilarious thread. I knew it would be with all the annoying jd fanboys around these parts.... JD underestimated effort! JD is just sooooo busy! JD dropped the games on purpose! JD is relieved to be out of GOM, JD was sooo tired, its ok he didnt care about GOM anyway~!
yeah they are really fucking annoying
Who's the guy posting 10 days after it's already over?
He's right. Just look at the MSL live report thread and all those Jaedong fans crying about imbalance of races. The only reason imbalance wasn't mentioned in this thread was the fact that it was a ZvZ, lol.
Obviously the only way to make SC balanced is if JD will have 100% winning rate; as simple as this :D
I'm trying to say that both types are people are equally annoying and that they're hypocritical. And if you can see, it's the same people that point out these annoyances, which makes them just as persistent and annoying. And then there's people like me who always points this out, so I'm persistent and annoying as well. Just that I don't deny it or try and act like I'm better.
On July 19 2009 05:39 zOula... wrote: hilarious thread. I knew it would be with all the annoying jd fanboys around these parts.... JD underestimated effort! JD is just sooooo busy! JD dropped the games on purpose! JD is relieved to be out of GOM, JD was sooo tired, its ok he didnt care about GOM anyway~!
I think July was the only guy who really cares about GOM.
At the absolute least, Jaedong cares more about OSL and MSL moreso.
That said, it's a true feat that Effort took a series ZvZ off Jaedong. He's one of two people to do it, and that's damn impressive, no matter the circumstances. I just don't think a 2-0 win in GOM (that has weird upset voodoo magic) should relegate Effort to "just as good at ZvZ as Jaedong," like some people seem to suggest. If anyone really thinks that, then they are very short sighted or haven't been watching Jaedong for the past 2 years.
Everyone loses. To say that JD is losing it now or that Effort's a god now is just stupid. But at the same time, to say that it's just a fluke or that GOM doesn't mean much is just as dumb. GOM has the biggest prize pool out of any of the Starleagues and is also the only league to be broadcasted in a language besides Korean. It's not just some 2nd rate league anymore. It's a league that can really stand up with the MSL and OSL. Furthermore, beating JD in a BO3, let alone any ZvZ, really shows Effort's capabilities and the fact that he's really risen to the top ranks as a Zerg player.
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Tadzio/GOMS3/aiclassic3w.png)
Berserker vs 
Tempest
Jaedong vs 
![[image loading]](http://images43.fotosik.pl/160/6ac6f7dc04d72bb8.jpg)
!
