Jaedong >> Return of the King >> by.hero Jaedong >> Tears of the Moon >> by.hero Jaedong >> Sin Chupung-Ryeong >> by.hero Jaedong << Medusa >> by.hero Jaedong << Return of the King >> by.hero
Jaedong 3:0 by.hero
On March 27 2009 18:52 One Page Memory wrote: not even funny next time use lube pls
Jaedong >> Return of the King >> by.hero Jaedong >> Tears of the Moon >> by.hero Jaedong >> Sin Chupung-Ryeong >> by.hero Jaedong >> Medusa >> by.hero Jaedong >> Return of the King >> by.hero
Jaedong 5:0 by.hero, Fantasy forfeits in fear of green goo.
I'm not ruling out the possibility of Hero winning though. He's been reasonably hot lately, and JD also had to practice for his potential all-kill against CJ tomorrow.
I think the OP could have analyzed the maps regardless of the fact that it's a mirror match-up. Where to attack from, how much gas there is for mutas, how play will differ from cross-spots to side-by-side spots, etc.
JD should underestimate by.hero, hes quite a good player. Bisu underestimated Fantasy (even though he was his teammate lawl) and got 3-0'd. Hopefully JD is smarter than that.
On March 27 2009 13:57 VorcePA wrote: I think the OP could have analyzed the maps regardless of the fact that it's a mirror match-up. Where to attack from, how much gas there is for mutas, how play will differ from cross-spots to side-by-side spots, etc.
On March 27 2009 13:57 VorcePA wrote: I think the OP could have analyzed the maps regardless of the fact that it's a mirror match-up. Where to attack from, how much gas there is for mutas, how play will differ from cross-spots to side-by-side spots, etc.
On March 27 2009 15:16 Mista wrote: by.hero will pull the biggest upset forget the stats you heard it here first.
Ya wanna JD to fail, just because Bisu failed, don't you? That's improbable. By.hero 3-0ing JD would make a lot of noise though, i kind of want to see what it will be like without it actually happening.
I can't really imagine Jaedong loosing after his recent superbly dominant play, but maybe he has been only practicing for the Proleague Grand Finals against CJ?
oh wait, the first game there is a ZvZ too... by.hero is screwed.
Good outcomes: By.hero owning Jaedong. Jaedong owning by.hero and winning the finals. By.hero owning Jaedong and winning the finals.
"ok" outcome: By.hero owning Jaedong.and losing the finals.
horrible outcomes: Jaedong owning by.hero but then losing to fantasy.... Uh that would anger me. By.hero and Jaedong both suffer back injuries while playing each other and Bisu get's yet another shot and wins the final by triple proxi cheese .
Ugh ffs I stayed up until 3:30 and came here to watch then I remembered the time change so I have to stay up until 4:30 and I give up and am going to bed .
On March 27 2009 17:42 d(O.o)a wrote: Ugh ffs I stayed up until 3:30 and came here to watch then I remembered the time change so I have to stay up until 4:30 and I give up and am going to bed .
its on at 8.30pm australian time, friday night too :D hehe
On March 27 2009 17:50 OneOther wrote: bah i am debating whether i should stay up for this or not. only if it weren't zvz, i would watch it for sure...
Bah, again streams dont work, i have been watching less and less starcraft lately, because i am tired of refreshing the stream for 10000 times in 2009..
On March 27 2009 18:33 Samurai- wrote: Bah, again streams dont work, i have been watching less and less starcraft lately, because i am tired of refreshing the stream for 10000 times in 2009..
oh comon, even here in Poland i got working stream.
On March 27 2009 18:33 Samurai- wrote: Bah, again streams dont work, i have been watching less and less starcraft lately, because i am tired of refreshing the stream for 10000 times in 2009..
oh comon, even here in Poland i got working stream.
On March 27 2009 18:33 Samurai- wrote: Bah, again streams dont work, i have been watching less and less starcraft lately, because i am tired of refreshing the stream for 10000 times in 2009..
oh comon, even here in Poland i got working stream.
Its not the quality of the internet, but the constant freezing of the stream for unknown reason..VLC link works for 1 sec, if i refresh for long long time, sometimes i get a stable connection.. Daum sport used to work great, now it just buffers..
On March 27 2009 18:33 Samurai- wrote: Bah, again streams dont work, i have been watching less and less starcraft lately, because i am tired of refreshing the stream for 10000 times in 2009..
same here no good streams since ilovecats and wtf sometimes my stream works for 10 minutes and I see the players build up an army but shortly befor the first clash my stream dies and the next thing I see is comercials O_o
Edit: stream works now , awesome Edit: dia show now, not so awesome
On March 27 2009 18:30 integral wrote: Woo only had to F5 the daum stream twice before it kicked in. Everything's good so far!
NOW, WHO'S EXCITED FOR SOME ZvZ?!!?
Fuck, soon as I wrote that I accidentally hit F5 on the wrong tab and I still haven't gotten it back up. Damn persnickety stream.
Since I want hero to win, this is almost certainly metaphorical: Hero will win the first set and then jaedong will win the rest. [lol and stork/jangbi will get 2nd place. and bisu for next bonjwa! savior in 2009! 1a2a3a! Did I forget any?]
both daum and yaoyuan are unwatchable due to buffering. l1 has never worked for me -- i'm not going to spam refresh for an hour straight to watch a game of starcraft. aers stream is great when he posts it, but i haven't seen him in a while. and sometimes other streams pop up, but even those are usually capped at a somewhat low number of users.
On March 27 2009 18:33 Samurai- wrote: Bah, again streams dont work, i have been watching less and less starcraft lately, because i am tired of refreshing the stream for 10000 times in 2009..
oh comon, even here in Poland i got working stream.
Grrrrr... Lagging real bad once again. Been like this for the last 12days with all the streams. I wonder if I might be my provider... Although youtube works fine and I can also still download at high speed. Sigh...
On March 27 2009 18:40 s.Q.uelched wrote: Grrrrr... Lagging real bad once again. Been like this for the last 12days with all the streams. I wonder if I might be my provider... Although youtube works fine and I can also still download at high speed. Sigh...
Trust me, its not the provider, i could watch 5 streams simultaneously back in the good old days if i wanted to, now i am happy if i get a stream that works at all, and i usually miss few games until it starts to work..
Overlords cross each other at top left and top right. Neither player has scouted each other, hero sends a ling scout that sees some of Jaedong's lings but is forced to retreat.
Jaedong with a faster lair. Speed has finished for hero, he's moving out.
If you have trouble using streams, try tvants. For most big events there is a broadcast, but it's usually ~2-3 minutes behind from other streams. No lag, no interruptions =)
On March 27 2009 18:42 Samurai- wrote: Trust me, its not the provider, i could watch 5 streams simultaneously back in the good old days if i wanted to, now i am happy if i get a stream that works at all, and i usually miss few games until it starts to work..
Good to know I'm not the only cursed one.I can't wait for the gomtv titty samboo to start. They've always provided fairly good stream for me Now I'm out of this thread before everything gets spoiled.
On March 27 2009 18:52 Silverflame wrote: looks like it'll be a quick night. hero just completely outclassed
at least he's playing pretty confidently, being the aggressor first and all. i didn't watch the whole game but the commentators said something about jaedong getting an early game build advantage? i don't think you can beat jaedong when that happens. either way, let's hope by.hero can put up a good fight
Ya, that game wasn't rape, it was just Jaedong getting the upper hand early on and not letting go. Not taking anything away from Jeadong, but don't count hero out just yet.
Any streams for VLC other than the mms://liveongame.gscdn.com/L1 ? My VLC doesnt work, cos i think too many ppl connecting to the stream, and i kept getting dc from it after connecting to it for 2sec.. The Daum sport stream doesnt work too, it says it is not compatible with the new IE i installed.. Y-Y
On March 27 2009 19:20 Gryffindor_us wrote: I honestly don't care who wins this series as long as whoever wins demolishes Fantasy. The idea of a SKT1 terran winning OSL is depressing ;P.
On March 27 2009 19:20 kaleidoscope wrote: Any streams for VLC other than the mms://liveongame.gscdn.com/L1 ? My VLC doesnt work, cos i think too many ppl connecting to the stream, and i kept getting dc from it after connecting to it for 2sec.. The Daum sport stream doesnt work too, it says it is not compatible with the new IE i installed.. Y-Y
Use WMP. im using WMP right now perfect stream so far.
On March 27 2009 19:20 Gryffindor_us wrote: I honestly don't care who wins this series as long as whoever wins demolishes Fantasy. The idea of a SKT1 terran winning OSL is depressing ;P.
EffOrt watched these games and started to practice offracing. This way he has a tiny chance of winning.
Seriously, JD has been on a whole new level in the last few weeks. I guess his extra practice is paying off. That , or he is on steroids or amphetamines.
On March 27 2009 19:20 Gryffindor_us wrote: I honestly don't care who wins this series as long as whoever wins demolishes Fantasy. The idea of a SKT1 terran winning OSL is depressing ;P.
wtf skt t1 terrans own. boxer, oov, fantasy, midas bear, even canata sometimes when he beats jeadong okay?!?!?
On March 27 2009 19:23 sAw wrote: I like how by.hero always looks calm, always keeps his composure.
Because things are going the way he expected them to be...hehehe
That's not funny, not at all. Players like hero are extremely rare and usually do really well on stage. There is nothing embarrassing in losing to Jaedong (especially ZvZ) in your first semifinals.
On March 27 2009 19:41 Crunchums wrote: map pool for finals: medusa return of the king sin chupuung ryeong green goo again damn it tears of the moon medusa
On March 27 2009 19:35 Crunchums wrote: Has there ever been a more one sided bo5 than that?
Boxer vs Yellow, Ever 2004 with the 3x bunker rushes possibly ;o I didn't watch todays games tho, but they sounded fairly one-sided.
Also, I don't think this is the first time both semis end 3-0.. Olympus 2003 I believe had Yellow 3-0 Junwi and Xellos 3-0 Boxer. EDIT: Oh by all you meant OSL *AND* MSL. That might not have happened before no
Boxer vs Yellow didn't involve a chance to show which player was better. I believe that that series was more one-sided because they so thoroughly demonstrated just how superior Jaedong is.
Flash vs Stork might have been worse though because of how Flash dominated the mental game so thoroughly.
How's a 4/5-pool against a 9-pool on Neo Harmony? Don't want to spoil the WL thread and after today's performance I think it's the only option Effort is going to have. If such a rush is even viable and a 9-pool doesn't come with lings in time (don't know the timing of that and on this map).
On March 27 2009 21:15 3nickma wrote: How's a 4/5-pool against a 9-pool on Neo Harmony? Don't want to spoil the WL thread and after today's performance I think it's the only option Effort is going to have. If such a rush is even viable and a 9-pool doesn't come with lings in time (don't know the timing of that and on this map).
Timing of 4pool vs 9pool is the same as 9pool vs 12pool and since Harmony is a 4 player map with HUGE rush distances effort is pretty much fucked.
Jaedong is ZvZ bonjwa. No questions asked. He is the unstopable force that a bonjwa should be, however only for ZvZ. And since his other match ups are insanely good I'd say that, currently, Jaedong is a better candidate for overall Bonjwa then Bisu.
Bisu fanboys must be . his dominance is gone, and he barely got anything during his period. Jaedong, on the other hand, is starting to look unbeatable. If he get a couple OSL and a MSL, he would achieve what Bisu could not .
On March 28 2009 00:30 JohnBall wrote: Jaedong is ZvZ bonjwa. No questions asked. He is the unstopable force that a bonjwa should be, however only for ZvZ. And since his other match ups are insanely good I'd say that, currently, Jaedong is a better candidate for overall Bonjwa then Bisu.
Bisu fanboys must be . his dominance is gone, and he barely got anything during his period. Jaedong, on the other hand, is starting to look unbeatable. If he get a couple OSL and a MSL, he would achieve what Bisu could not .
Bisu loses one game to HoeJJa and an OSL semifinal series, and now his "dominance is gone"? Bisu will still be a force next SC season.
I don't think you understand the meaning if the term Bonjwa...there can be no such thing as a "ZvZ bonjwa" because dominance over all three races is an inextricable component of the definition of "bonjwa".
Well, nearly all the bonjwa's had weak match-ups... Boxer's TvP, iloveoov's TvT to an extent, Savior's ZvZ... I can't recall Nada having any specific weak MU, though.
EDIT: Jaedong's 63% weakest MU is definitely inside the requirements for bonjwa, he just needs to win like this for 6 months longer. Maybe get a couple more titles and so on.
On March 28 2009 00:30 JohnBall wrote: Jaedong is ZvZ bonjwa. No questions asked. He is the unstopable force that a bonjwa should be, however only for ZvZ. And since his other match ups are insanely good I'd say that, currently, Jaedong is a better candidate for overall Bonjwa then Bisu.
Bisu fanboys must be . his dominance is gone, and he barely got anything during his period. Jaedong, on the other hand, is starting to look unbeatable. If he get a couple OSL and a MSL, he would achieve what Bisu could not .
Bisu loses one game to HoeJJa and an OSL semifinal series, and now his "dominance is gone"? Bisu will still be a force next SC season.
I don't think you understand the meaning if the term Bonjwa...there can be no such thing as a "ZvZ bonjwa" because dominance over all three races is an inextricable component of the definition of "bonjwa".
lulz, getting beaten by HoeJJa, which is pretty much the reason SKT1 lost to KTF to be honest, and then getting 3-0'd not by flash or jaedong but by fantasy of all people is pretty big.
On March 28 2009 00:51 Shikyo wrote: Well, nearly all the bonjwa's had weak match-ups... Boxer's TvP, iloveoov's TvT to an extent, Savior's ZvZ... I can't recall Nada having any specific weak MU, though.
EDIT: Jaedong's 63% weakest MU is definitely inside the requirements for bonjwa, he just needs to win like this for 6 months longer. Maybe get a couple more titles and so on.
i really wish they would make a news post about this there is no such thing as a requirement for being bonjwa it does not mean you won 3 msls and an osl it does not mean you have a certain winrate it means the dominant player at any given time. if you're raping everyone else in the ass you're the bonjwa. if you're not you arent. you cant call jaedong a heavy favorite over bisu or flash and hes not a sure win on anyone else in the top 10. hes really fucking good, probably the best right now, but there are other people who are also so good that you cant call him dominant.
On March 28 2009 00:30 JohnBall wrote: Jaedong is ZvZ bonjwa. No questions asked. He is the unstopable force that a bonjwa should be, however only for ZvZ. And since his other match ups are insanely good I'd say that, currently, Jaedong is a better candidate for overall Bonjwa then Bisu.
Bisu fanboys must be . his dominance is gone, and he barely got anything during his period. Jaedong, on the other hand, is starting to look unbeatable. If he get a couple OSL and a MSL, he would achieve what Bisu could not .
Bisu loses one game to HoeJJa and an OSL semifinal series, and now his "dominance is gone"? Bisu will still be a force next SC season.
I don't think you understand the meaning if the term Bonjwa...there can be no such thing as a "ZvZ bonjwa" because dominance over all three races is an inextricable component of the definition of "bonjwa".
lulz, getting beaten by HoeJJa, which is pretty much the reason SKT1 lost to KTF to be honest, and then getting 3-0'd not by flash or jaedong but by fantasy of all people is pretty big.
+ that cursed game 5 + losing to Savior and ZerO in the MSL group stage + his shitty performance in the ongoing OGN race tournament
I will go ahead and say that Bisu won't win anything next season as well. He missed his chance.
You can only feel bonjwa. You can't really define bonjwa other than calling him 'the guy who fucks up map balance towards his favor and makes a comeback from impossible games infinite times'
Dont feel sorry for Hero he has played extremly well up to the finals and who can blame him being nervous v JD. He will someday win at least one major title.
On March 28 2009 01:06 disciple wrote: well, thats the best thing about JD, his longest slump lasted 2 weeks or so, he is so consistent.
His slumps are extremely depressing to watch though. They always happened against Terran players too. The short span of ZvTs before the semifinals against Hwasin in the MSL were so frustrating.
On March 28 2009 00:51 Shikyo wrote: Well, nearly all the bonjwa's had weak match-ups... Boxer's TvP, iloveoov's TvT to an extent, Savior's ZvZ... I can't recall Nada having any specific weak MU, though.
EDIT: Jaedong's 63% weakest MU is definitely inside the requirements for bonjwa, he just needs to win like this for 6 months longer. Maybe get a couple more titles and so on.
Bonjwa, as a result, is a terrible prerequisite for 'best player'. It requires us to have only one of Jaedong, Flash, or Bisu out there, and that kind of scenario might not happen again. With the average skill level higher than ever, and the sheer amount of games played (just look at Jaedong's schedule right now - KTF all kill in the playoffs, OSL semis, WL finals the next day, soon OSL finals), it isn't all that strange to consider there may not be another bonjwa in the sense there used to be. That doesn't mean that the players are not as good, it just means that there is more competition.
Besides, if we agree that Jaedong (or Flash, or Bisu) is the best player out there, what does it matter if he's a bonjwa or not?
On March 28 2009 01:07 konadora wrote: You can only feel bonjwa. You can't really define bonjwa other than calling him 'the guy who fucks up map balance towards his favor and makes a comeback from impossible games infinite times'
That doesn't seem like a good definition, especially considering Jaedong and Flash and their performance on maps like Katrina. Both fit that perfectly.
More on topic, I too find it hard to believe anyone seriously thought by.hero had a chance in this series (no offense Plexa).
Bisu loses one game to HoeJJa and an OSL semifinal series, and now his "dominance is gone"? Bisu will still be a force next SC season.
There's a difference between "being a force" and "being dominant". Bisu is no longer the latter. He is a powerful mortal, but he is clearly mortal.
And when you lose an OSL semifinal 3-0, while playing like crap the whole time, yes, your "dominance" is gone. It's not like those were 3 close, nail-biting games; Stork showed better skill vs. Jangbi than Bisu vs. Fantasy.
80% ZvZ ratio. I never thought I'd see this over this many games in professional Starcraft. Even holding onto 65% or 70% with this many games would be amazing. But to get to 80%, on 3-4 player maps no less...
Well, he's broken my mind and the rule of more luck in ZvZ. If the rule doesn't apply to him it no longer makes it a rule. This is among the most amazing things ever to be seen in progaming.
On March 27 2009 19:40 lolaloc wrote: I bet CJ are huddling right now and talking about several ways to snipe JD
Do you honestly think that CJ Entus's team has discussed anything else? Sniping Jaedong is their only winning strategy, especially since he's up first.
After he beat Bisu when Bisu was where he was, and especially considering how Bisu has been losing lately, I'd call him an obvious favorite over Bisu.
One good game after getting trounced in the two previous games does not make him a favourite over flash. The two are still very toe-to-toe; neither of them are a favourite over the other.
Has anyone explained the specifics behind that thing he did on the ramp yet? I've never seen anyone come out so clearly on top in such a clear cut standoff position.
I mean I saw luxury force his way down ramps in MSL, but he had two more zerglings (instead of jaedong who had two less iirc) and he used a drone as well (he floated it into the zerglings to scatter them).
After he beat Bisu when Bisu was where he was, and especially considering how Bisu has been losing lately, I'd call him an obvious favorite over Bisu.
One good game after getting trounced in the two previous games does not make him a favourite over a specific opponent. The two are still very toe-to-toe; neither of them are a favourite over the other.
Correction, they WERE toe to toe. Since then Bisu has lost to Fantasy and HoeJJa and by.hero, while Jaedong is currently on a 10 game wining streak. Jaedong is on fire, and Bisu is not. If Bisu comes back and beats a bunch of S class players I'll revise this. But since losing the match to Jaedong Bisu hasn't beat any players in the top 28 ELO.
After he beat Bisu when Bisu was where he was, and especially considering how Bisu has been losing lately, I'd call him an obvious favorite over Bisu.
One good game after getting trounced in the two previous games does not make him a favourite over a specific opponent. The two are still very toe-to-toe; neither of them are a favourite over the other.
Correction, they WERE toe to toe. Since then Bisu has lost to Fantasy and HoeJJa and by.hero, while Jaedong is currently on a 10 game wining streak. Jaedong is on fire, and Bisu is not. If Bisu comes back and beats a bunch of S class players I'll revise this. But since losing the match to Jaedong Bisu hasn't beat any players in the top 28 ELO.
Oh whoops. I thought they'd only quote the top half of my post if that's what they were going to reply to.
Ya Flash and Jaedong are pretty toe to toe. I still think Flash is a favorite though (notice I didn't say "clear favorite" or anything). Flash certainly isn't suffering from Bisu's streak. He beat yellow leta and light.
Bisu loses one game to HoeJJa and an OSL semifinal series, and now his "dominance is gone"? Bisu will still be a force next SC season.
There's a difference between "being a force" and "being dominant". Bisu is no longer the latter. He is a powerful mortal, but he is clearly mortal.
And when you lose an OSL semifinal 3-0, while playing like crap the whole time, yes, your "dominance" is gone. It's not like those were 3 close, nail-biting games; Stork showed better skill vs. Jangbi than Bisu vs. Fantasy.
Who can blame by.hero .... Jaedong just beat the other day the second best ZvZer and made it look easy ...If enything i think by.hero is still a force his ZvP and ZvT are fearsome to say the least . I'm sure that next OSL he will be back with a vengeance , he better dodge Jaedong somehow thought . Bisu losing to fantasy 3 - 0 might be considered playing like crap with all the expectations from him . But hero didn't play like crap its just that Jaedong is far more superior in this MU and it looks like a pro is taking on an amateur korean player . Honestly who was expecting that by.hero would win against Jaedong ? The weight of the numbers is just to big to ignore .
After he beat Bisu when Bisu was where he was, and especially considering how Bisu has been losing lately, I'd call him an obvious favorite over Bisu.
One good game after getting trounced in the two previous games does not make him a favourite over a specific opponent. The two are still very toe-to-toe; neither of them are a favourite over the other.
Correction, they WERE toe to toe. Since then Bisu has lost to Fantasy and HoeJJa and by.hero, while Jaedong is currently on a 10 game wining streak. Jaedong is on fire, and Bisu is not. If Bisu comes back and beats a bunch of S class players I'll revise this. But since losing the match to Jaedong Bisu hasn't beat any players in the top 28 ELO.
I was talking about Jaedong and Flash. Jaedong has arguably been a favourite over Bisu since his absolute domination on Othello and Colosseum in Arena MSL.
On March 28 2009 02:53 scwizard wrote: Has anyone explained the specifics behind that thing he did on the ramp yet? I've never seen anyone come out so clearly on top in such a clear cut standoff position.
I mean I saw luxury force his way down ramps in MSL, but he had two more zerglings (instead of jaedong who had two less iirc) and he used a drone as well (he floated it into the zerglings to scatter them).
He attacked the end zergling to try and kill it, hero moved it out for a bit but had to move it back, it died giving Jaedong the hole to rush out in.
I think hero screwed up, he lost a few attacks while running before he turned around to fight.
This is why I'd argue Jaedong is probably bonjwa and definitely bonjwa if he all kills. It's who he's winning against. His games have been against the very cream of the crop, at the tail end of the season.
In comparison flash beat a bunch of people at least half a tier below him for the most part. He did beat Jaedong, but it was on Sin Chupung-Ryeong (TvZ: 18-10 64.3%) and before Jaedong ramped up his practice schedule to inhuman levels.
And then of course Jaedong beats flash, and on Rush Hour (TvZ: 42-24 63.6%) to.
On March 28 2009 03:13 scwizard wrote: This is why I'd argue Jaedong is probably bonjwa and definitely bonjwa if he all kills. It's who he's winning against. His games have been against the very cream of the crop, at the tail end of the season.
In comparison flash beat a bunch of people at least half a tier below him for the most part. He did beat Jaedong, but it was on Sin Chupung-Ryeong (TvZ: 18-10 64.3%) and before Jaedong ramped up his practice schedule to inhuman levels.
And then of course Jaedong beats flash, and on Rush Hour (TvZ: 42-24 63.6%) to.
this is wrong, for the same reason that the arguments for bisu were wrong. he hasn't been dominating for nearly long enough. he was knocked out of this past msl in the ro32. yes, by flash and hwasin, but if he were bonjwa, it wouldn't matter who his opponents were. he'd get past the ro32. if he's still winning like this next year, then start talking about him being bonjwa again. but he's only really been dominating like this for what, a week? and now you're calling him bonjwa?
also, don't use flash as a reference. it pains me to say it, but flash is looking pretty shaky after being knocked out of the starleagues. yes he's still good, but not what you need to qualify jaedong as a bonjwa when the other evidence you have is a week's worth of games -.-
That was so one sided I actually felt somewhat awkward watching it. Also, did somebody slip some steroids into jaedongs cereal or something? Because this is dominance I havn't seen in a long time from anybody.
On March 28 2009 03:38 oatboy wrote: That was so one sided I actually felt somewhat awkward watching it. Also, did somebody slip some steroids into jaedongs cereal or something? Because this is dominance I havn't seen in a long time from anybody.
Nah, this is just Jaedong's thing. It's like he has two modes: "Rape everyone" and "Rape everyone horribly." Dude just turned on Tyrant mode.
I would've never called CJ getting all killed, but if anyone in the game can do it, it's gonna be Jaedong at this point. I could care less about this glorified title tossing people are throwing around -- Jaedong is clearly the head of the pack right now. You might want to say Bisu or Flash have been able to do the same, but honestly, I don't think there's a better player than Jaedong at his absolute best. Bisu and Flash come close, but there's just something ridiculous about what Jaedong can pull off. It's why he can all kill KTF, 3-0 a semi-final, and head right back into WL final without breaking a stride.
fun fact: There is only a single zerg player with a winning record against JD in official games (rorO is 1-0 against him). He's tied with savior, july, ELIZA and 815
On March 28 2009 00:51 Shikyo wrote: Well, nearly all the bonjwa's had weak match-ups... Boxer's TvP, iloveoov's TvT to an extent, Savior's ZvZ... I can't recall Nada having any specific weak MU, though.
EDIT: Jaedong's 63% weakest MU is definitely inside the requirements for bonjwa, he just needs to win like this for 6 months longer. Maybe get a couple more titles and so on.
i really wish they would make a news post about this there is no such thing as a requirement for being bonjwa it does not mean you won 3 msls and an osl it does not mean you have a certain winrate it means the dominant player at any given time. if you're raping everyone else in the ass you're the bonjwa. if you're not you arent. you cant call jaedong a heavy favorite over bisu or flash and hes not a sure win on anyone else in the top 10. hes really fucking good, probably the best right now, but there are other people who are also so good that you cant call him dominant.
Yes, that was the point of my post exactly. He just needs to dominate for an extended period of the time. =)
guys this bonjwa discussion is really getting old, lets stop keep filling every single thread that mentions jaedong and bisu with bonjwa discussions. lets stop discussing it. if one of them does become bonjwa, there will be no debate. everyone will just know. let it happen naturally.
Sigh... 3-0 Jaedong. Imagine the insane hype of an OSL Bisu-Jaedong match. Just...beyond comprehension. A sort of rematch of the much less prestigious Gom TV showmatch. Stupid Bisu, failing miserably and letting everyone down in both Single Leagues and Playoffs. Even if you're not a Bisu fanboy, I think you can recognize how much cooler it would have been to have Bisu in this OSL final.
On March 28 2009 05:04 latent wrote: Sigh... 3-0 Jaedong. Imagine the insane hype of an OSL Bisu-Jaedong match. Just...beyond comprehension. A sort of rematch of the much less prestigious Gom TV showmatch. Stupid Bisu, failing miserably and letting everyone down in both Single Leagues and Playoffs. Even if you're not a Bisu fanboy, I think you can recognize how much cooler it would have been to have Bisu in this OSL final.
Not if you knew from the beginning that Fantasy is immeasurably more skilled that Bisu
On March 28 2009 05:04 latent wrote: Sigh... 3-0 Jaedong. Imagine the insane hype of an OSL Bisu-Jaedong match. Just...beyond comprehension. A sort of rematch of the much less prestigious Gom TV showmatch. Stupid Bisu, failing miserably and letting everyone down in both Single Leagues and Playoffs. Even if you're not a Bisu fanboy, I think you can recognize how much cooler it would have been to have Bisu in this OSL final.
Not if you knew from the beginning that Fantasy is immeasurably more skilled that Bisu
But Fantasy is Terran and there are many more famous Terran players than Protoss. I still think that Fantasy's skill isn't good enough yet as Bisu's is. Sigh, if only Bisu got through. If only.
Im anxiously awaiting the next protoss to step up that actually can get a decent win percentage against good zergs AND have a decent percentage against P and T ^^
On March 28 2009 05:04 latent wrote: Sigh... 3-0 Jaedong. Imagine the insane hype of an OSL Bisu-Jaedong match. Just...beyond comprehension. A sort of rematch of the much less prestigious Gom TV showmatch. Stupid Bisu, failing miserably and letting everyone down in both Single Leagues and Playoffs. Even if you're not a Bisu fanboy, I think you can recognize how much cooler it would have been to have Bisu in this OSL final.
Haha i must agree here. They called him bin-laden or terrorist or something because he ruined Stork vs GGplay finals. And now this? haha i wonder what they call him this time, specially if he lose.
But fantasy is on fire lately, it will be a good series i think if fantasy use unique style. He has to becuase jaedong will rape him hard if he tries any standard bio builds.
On March 28 2009 05:04 latent wrote: Sigh... 3-0 Jaedong. Imagine the insane hype of an OSL Bisu-Jaedong match. Just...beyond comprehension. A sort of rematch of the much less prestigious Gom TV showmatch. Stupid Bisu, failing miserably and letting everyone down in both Single Leagues and Playoffs. Even if you're not a Bisu fanboy, I think you can recognize how much cooler it would have been to have Bisu in this OSL final.
Haha i must agree here. They called him bin-laden or terrorist or something because he ruined Stork vs GGplay finals. And now this? haha i wonder what they call him this time, specially if he lose.
But fantasy is on fire lately, it will be a good series i think if fantasy use unique style. He has to becuase jaedong will rape him hard if he tries any standard bio builds.
The difference is that Koreans really really really like GGplay.
I don't think they care much this time around. I personally don't. If Bisu couldn't cut it against fantasy he doesn't deserve a finals birth
On March 28 2009 05:04 latent wrote: Sigh... 3-0 Jaedong. Imagine the insane hype of an OSL Bisu-Jaedong match. Just...beyond comprehension. A sort of rematch of the much less prestigious Gom TV showmatch. Stupid Bisu, failing miserably and letting everyone down in both Single Leagues and Playoffs. Even if you're not a Bisu fanboy, I think you can recognize how much cooler it would have been to have Bisu in this OSL final.
Haha i must agree here. They called him bin-laden or terrorist or something because he ruined Stork vs GGplay finals. And now this? haha i wonder what they call him this time, specially if he lose.
But fantasy is on fire lately, it will be a good series i think if fantasy use unique style. He has to becuase jaedong will rape him hard if he tries any standard bio builds.
The difference is that Koreans really really really like GGplay.
I don't think they care much this time around. I personally don't. If Bisu couldn't cut it against fantasy he doesn't deserve a finals birth
Oh i thought everyone loved Bisu and wanted Bisu vs Jaedong in the finals or something, could be wrong;)
Yeah, the finals are gearing up to be really interesting. Fantasy's had a very creative game, and Jaedong played a very creative game against fantasy lately.
Pretty much any outcome will be extremely exciting and with profound consequences, especially so if Jaedong all kills in the proleague.
I'm hoping for a five game match of course.
Oh i thought everyone loved Bisu lol no
Not that I hate Bisu, but strong players will always have anti fans.
On March 28 2009 05:04 latent wrote: Sigh... 3-0 Jaedong. Imagine the insane hype of an OSL Bisu-Jaedong match. Just...beyond comprehension. A sort of rematch of the much less prestigious Gom TV showmatch. Stupid Bisu, failing miserably and letting everyone down in both Single Leagues and Playoffs. Even if you're not a Bisu fanboy, I think you can recognize how much cooler it would have been to have Bisu in this OSL final.
Not if you knew from the beginning that Fantasy is immeasurably more skilled that Bisu
Well I think what's disappointing isn't that Bisu lost, but that he lost while playing badly. If he played well and lost, even if he lost 3-0, it would be been acceptable. But when Bisu was playing Fantasy he was so far away from his full power.
Well TL needs itsx bonjwa, it's important to them. Players of that level (ie Boxer) are what get starcraft so popular anyway (for the same reason the Yankee's have so many fans).
So I don't see the "playerX is Bonjwa" crap ending ever.
On March 28 2009 10:19 whatusername wrote: semifinals are so dull these days...
Wut
During game 3, commentators were saying: "Even when all the zergs (July, GGPlay, etc) come together to help by.hero defeat Jaedong, Jaedong accepts it simply. It's as though when a King calls out for war, the King will step up himself and crush his opponents. That's Jaedong" "Jaedong is Bonjwa-class, he's gotten used to not losing." "Jaedong isn't human anymore." "Even us, commentators, feel Jaedong is like a solid wall. That's how powerful he is." "All Zergs who won OSL up til now won via defeating Terran except Jaedong. But Jaedong has won by defeating protoss and zerg, and makes him shine even more."
Finals between Fantasy and Jaedong: 4th April, 6pm KST (GMT +9) Map Pool: Medusa Return of the King Shin Chupung Ryeung Tears of the Moon Medusa
On March 28 2009 10:19 whatusername wrote: semifinals are so dull these days...
Wut
During game 3, commentators were saying: "Even when all the zergs (July, GGPlay, etc) come together to help by.hero defeat Jaedong, Jaedong accepts it simply. It's as though when a King calls out for war, the King will step up himself and crush his opponents. That's Jaedong" "Jaedong is Bonjwa-class, he's gotten used to not losing." "Jaedong isn't human anymore." "Even us, commentators, feel Jaedong is like a solid wall. That's how powerful he is." "All Zergs who won OSL up til now won via defeating Terran except Jaedong. But Jaedong has won by defeating protoss and zerg, and makes him shine even more."
Finals between Fantasy and Jaedong: 4th April, 6pm KST (GMT +9) Map Pool: Medusa Return of the King Shin Chupung Ryeung Tears of the Moon Medusa
He means that all semis this season (GOM, OSL, and MSL) have all been 3-0 rapes
I'm really hoping for Jaedong 7-0 in his next 7 games. Then hell be a very promising candidate for bonjwa status. I'm sure if he wins one out of the 3 starleagues and continues doing well in prolaegue, hell be considered a bonjwa.
On March 28 2009 13:16 EternaLEnVy wrote: I'm really hoping for Jaedong 7-0 in his next 7 games. Then hell be a very promising candidate for bonjwa status. I'm sure if he wins one out of the 3 starleagues and continues doing well in prolaegue, hell be considered a bonjwa.
On March 28 2009 13:16 EternaLEnVy wrote: I'm really hoping for Jaedong 7-0 in his next 7 games. Then hell be a very promising candidate for bonjwa status. I'm sure if he wins one out of the 3 starleagues and continues doing well in prolaegue, hell be considered a bonjwa.
If jaedong was to do something like allkill CJ and 3:0 fantasy I would say that's the best winning streak I've ever seen, but you can't be bonjwa when people like flash and bisu coexist with you.
he doesnt need to be a bonjwa its pretty impossible with so many other great players (bisu/flash and to a lesser extent jangbi/luxury) on the scene, even if he has winning records against all of them
i think a jaedong fan can be content with the fact that he has the best matchup of any progamer ever, the highest winning percentage in Korea, the most televised all-kills and the first televised reverse all-kill
*edit* and a soon-to-be second OSL title of course
On March 28 2009 13:16 EternaLEnVy wrote: I'm really hoping for Jaedong 7-0 in his next 7 games. Then hell be a very promising candidate for bonjwa status. I'm sure if he wins one out of the 3 starleagues and continues doing well in prolaegue, hell be considered a bonjwa.
no
Dude, face it, commentators have called him bonjwa.
Sorry, but if Bisu and Flash can't be Bonjwa, Jaedong can't either. Sure, he's been dominating for the past seven games, but how far/how long do you expect this to last? There are just too many good players right now.
Like, did you even understand what the commentators were talking about or did you just selectively hear the word "bonjwa" and get all giddy by yourself?
Tbh I think everybody concerned about bonjwa is a giant moron.
Its a computer game. Special terms to define how good a great player was are really stupid. If anybody can't look into history and see who the greats have been or look at current stats and SEE how good the greats are then they aren't a broodwar fan.
On March 28 2009 15:37 AttackZerg wrote: Tbh I think everybody concerned about bonjwa is a giant moron.
Its a computer game. Special terms to define how good a great player was are really stupid. If anybody can't look into history and see who the greats have been or look at current stats and SEE how good the greats are then they aren't a broodwar fan.
Spread your common sense to the masses we need more of it.
On March 28 2009 15:37 AttackZerg wrote: Tbh I think everybody concerned about bonjwa is a giant moron.
Its a computer game. Special terms to define how good a great player was are really stupid. If anybody can't look into history and see who the greats have been or look at current stats and SEE how good the greats are then they aren't a broodwar fan.
and how about the people that arent fans? what if you want a non-fan to understand how much better one player was than all the others in a particular period
i dont think that it being a computer game has anything to do with it
On March 28 2009 10:44 konadora wrote: Jaedong is a monster rofl.
On March 28 2009 10:19 whatusername wrote: semifinals are so dull these days...
Wut
During game 3, commentators were saying: "Even when all the zergs (July, GGPlay, etc) come together to help by.hero defeat Jaedong, Jaedong accepts it simply. It's as though when a King calls out for war, the King will step up himself and crush his opponents. That's Jaedong" "Jaedong is Bonjwa-class, he's gotten used to not losing." "Jaedong isn't human anymore." "Even us, commentators, feel Jaedong is like a solid wall. That's how powerful he is." "All Zergs who won OSL up til now won via defeating Terran except Jaedong. But Jaedong has won by defeating protoss and zerg, and makes him shine even more."
Finals between Fantasy and Jaedong: 4th April, 6pm KST (GMT +9) Map Pool: Medusa Return of the King Shin Chupung Ryeung Tears of the Moon Medusa
He means that all semis this season (GOM, OSL, and MSL) have all been 3-0 rapes
Bisu getting raped 3-0 is not dull. Sad maybe, but dull, no.
damn jaedong got lucky in first two games with bo advantage. i like by.hero's style better reminds of of savior's. jaedong on the other hand is just..... perfect mechanics + hyper aggression.
On March 29 2009 21:05 panda_inc wrote: damn jaedong got lucky in first two games with bo advantage. i like by.hero's style better reminds of of savior's. jaedong on the other hand is just..... perfect mechanics + hyper aggression.
I always thought by.hero had a heavy macro style, while Savior's was more game sense?
On March 29 2009 21:05 panda_inc wrote: damn jaedong got lucky in first two games with bo advantage. i like by.hero's style better reminds of of savior's. jaedong on the other hand is just..... perfect mechanics + hyper aggression.
I always thought by.hero had a heavy macro style, while Savior's was more game sense?
Prior to Savior's bonjwa era, Savior was a super macro toss-units-at-the-poor-opponent-until-he-dies zerg player. Although the commentators have said recently that Savior wasn't really a macro style zerg, I've always thought Savior was one of the figureheads of macro-style zerg play.
On March 29 2009 21:05 panda_inc wrote: damn jaedong got lucky in first two games with bo advantage. i like by.hero's style better reminds of of savior's. jaedong on the other hand is just..... perfect mechanics + hyper aggression.
Jaedong is so lucky, its not like he had a 80% win rate in ZvZ.
On March 29 2009 21:05 panda_inc wrote: damn jaedong got lucky in first two games with bo advantage. i like by.hero's style better reminds of of savior's. jaedong on the other hand is just..... perfect mechanics + hyper aggression.
Jaedong is so lucky, its not like he had a 80% win rate in ZvZ.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1782/batooomfg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/82.jpg)
vs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/211.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/184_Return%20of%20the%20King_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/195_Tears%20of%20the%20Moon_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/193_Sin%20Chupung-Ryeong_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/187_Medusa_thumbnail.jpg)
by.hero
That's improbable. By.hero 3-0ing JD would make a lot of noise though, i kind of want to see what it will be like without it actually happening.
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![[image loading]](http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/wub.gif)
you guys
![[image loading]](http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9018/gooy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2337/21oy1hk.png)
