god so painful why couldn't they send pure out first or 2nd he's dominating right now but they didn't even give him the opportunity i love nada and mind but come on nada 4th set pure 2nd so atleast it wouldn't be a 3-0 rape.

Barbarne

Sweden458 Posts

June 17 2008 11:18 GMT

#82

God, I can't believe I just watched these pile's of shit games live. I'm sure KTF hanbit was several times more fun.

o[twist]

United States4903 Posts

June 17 2008 11:20 GMT

#83

God damn is Wemade just a shit factory now? I liked them when I was starting to get into the professional scene but there is nobody on the team who isn't just as likely to fuck up as not, except maybe Pure.

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

June 17 2008 11:22 GMT

#84

What? Do you have any idea of the level Sea and RuBy are atm? It's not like NaDa and Mind just lost to some B - Team player.

Barbarne

Sweden458 Posts

June 17 2008 11:23 GMT

#85

I used to like wemade a lot, but since they stopped using firefist (a really cool zerg player) for some reason. Now, I really don't care about them anymore.

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

June 17 2008 11:24 GMT

#86

Because FireFist doesn't perform as well as Mind, NaDa, Pure?

o[twist]

United States4903 Posts

June 17 2008 11:30 GMT

#87

Sorry, but Mind and Nada were both very disappointing in the Starleagues recently as well. They were both really strong a month or two ago but have fallen off. As for Sea and Ruby, yes, they've been playing at an incredibly high level, but Mind and Nada are supposed to be two of the top five Terrans in the game. They are just not playing consistently. Cf. e.g. both of them v. Lomo, Mind v. HiyA, etc. If you are good you have to be able to WIN GAMES sometimes. When have they done that recently?

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

June 17 2008 11:36 GMT

#88

I'm sorry Mind couldn't beat Flash who is the #1 terran right now. Jesus christ

I'm also sorry NaDa couldn't beat Hwasin/JangBi/Stork who are all top players right now (JangBi and Stork aren't exactly scrubs PvT).

do you have any idea what you're talking about?

I mean jesus Mind has taken down Jaedong twice in recent times.

alffla

Hong Kong20321 Posts

June 17 2008 11:37 GMT

#89

gogo deadvessel defend the wemade pride

o[twist]

United States4903 Posts

June 17 2008 11:42 GMT

#90

Sure, I watch this too. I'm just a little fed up with the inconsistency. If you can't beat top players, you're not one. I don't see how that's contentious or something that needs to be argued.

Mind did very well v. Jaedong, I had remembered that. But then his ace-match loss v. Hiya? Who is in NO way a top player.

The issue is consistency and to show consistency you need to look at their entire record, not a few strokes of brilliance.

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

June 17 2008 11:51 GMT

#91

Yeah, just a couple strokes of brilliance

Mind > Jaedong
Mind > Jaedong
Mind > Sea
Mind > Best

you have 1 player that mind shouldn't have lost too. FBH has amazing TvT, so does flash, Kal is good overall, lomo is newer but still showing a ton of talent. I don't see what you're getting at.

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

June 17 2008 11:52 GMT

#92

btw those couple "strokes of brilliance" are just in 08. this doesn't include minds lifetime record.

o[twist]

United States4903 Posts

June 17 2008 12:00 GMT

#93

Sure, I'm talking about a recent slump that's seemed to hit both of them at the same time.

Look at TvT. In May and June, whom has Mind beaten? Memory and Sea.Really. Losses to FBH, Flash (x3), Hiya, Lomo, Midas. 1-1 vs. Sea[Shield]. TvP? He beat Best and Backho, lost to Kal, Much, Free, and Bisu. TvZ he hasn't lost, so I'll give you that.

I won't argue he's playing against the best. But he's not consistently beating them.

As for Nada? In May and June, he's 1-3 vs. Hwasin, lost to Lomo, forGG, and now Ruby, beating Piano, Boxer, and Goodfriend. vZ he is 2-0, and vP he's 1-1 vs. Jangbi, 0-2 vs. Stork, lost to Best and Lucifer, and beat Jaehoon.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Perhaps Wemade is overusing them and they're getting exhausted. I don't know. But they are not winning consistently against good players the way potential champions and team leaders have to. It makes me sad.

DeadVessel

United States6269 Posts

June 17 2008 12:02 GMT

#94

You can say that for 99% of progamers

flash is the only player right now that is able to post consistent results

i'm excluding best btw because hes relatively new compared to flash in amount of games played in the past couple months

o[twist]

United States4903 Posts

June 17 2008 12:11 GMT

#95

Not true. Best has lost twice in the past two months. FBH has won his last 6 Proleague matches. Even on Wemade Pure dominates. Jaedong is destroying vZ and vP, just has been bad vT recently. It seems to me that players with very high win percentages are simply playing fewer games than Nada and Mind. I would never suggest either of them are bad players, Nada certainly is an historic figure and possibly the most consistent long-term Starcraft player, but we were excited about them as potential champions recently and they just keep playing games in the "fair to good" range.

Aesop

Hungary11305 Posts

June 17 2008 12:14 GMT

#96

I would say Much is playing consistently lately

o[twist]

United States4903 Posts

June 17 2008 12:26 GMT

#97

I thought of Much but he also had a bad run in mid-May. Hwasin went 3-1 vs. Nada and lost to Sea and Jangbi in May and June. (Jangbi has also been pretty consistent recently.)

And Flash has had a bad couple of weeks - for Flash, at least.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

June 17 2008 12:29 GMT

#98

jesus christ, WeMade has a good lineup
Mind is a great player, while his results aren't as convincing as Flashs (whos is?) he's still top fucking tier and anyone coming against him will fear him

Nada was looking good when he made it into both leagues

o[twist]

United States4903 Posts

June 17 2008 12:36 GMT

#99

They both look good, I just really genuinely do not believe they've been delivering recently.

It's a non sequitur to say "sure, he's not Flash, he lost to Flash, but who wouldn't?" Wemade frankly relies on these two Terrans to play beastly good Starcraft - every match has at least one of them, every other match has both. Their results haven't been convincing compared to the players they're matched up against, not limited to Flash, which is why it's a problem.

This seems to have ballooned into something larger than it was supposed to be, which was basically whining, so... hope I didn't piss anyone off too badly.

HaXxorIzed

Australia8434 Posts

June 17 2008 13:08 GMT

#100

Wemade really needs their terran pair to fire if they want to get far in the playoffs. That's all that needs to be said really -> unless Casy rises to the occasion or something.