|
|
On September 15 2026 20:47 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:44 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:On September 15 2026 20:40 thezanursic wrote:
I've always been a balance through maps type guy... but idk man. Maybe it is time to admit that after almost 30 years, the game has been optimized enough for us to say that Protoss is just weak compared to the other two races (At the highest levels of play, I'm well aware it has big advantages for beginners). Nah these maps are most zerg favored ever. its the maps. last few years the map pool has seen terrrrrrrrrible pvz winrates. We had a few seasons with maps that had almost 50% winrate for each MU. bring those maps back and suddenly it looks balanced again. I think both are true. P needs some help, but the last seasons were crazy Zerg maps. Soulkey won two titles with a 100% win rate ZvP maps in the pool. Not 90%, not even 99% - 100% like wtf, meanwhile island maps are too P favored to be added to the pool. No island map was ever 100% win rate for P
This is not true. Sparkle for instance was Zerg favoured. There are so many unexplored avenues with island maps.
|
On September 15 2026 20:49 InkieB2B wrote:
Inbefore Snow wins this season and map balance discussion turns super non straightforward :D
Would be funny if Effort loses to Shinee and then he faces exclusively Terran up to the finals without facing a single Zerg
|
On September 15 2026 20:46 TMNT wrote:
Back to game 1 on Octagon, I missed the early part guys. Did Snow lose some probes or throw away some zealots in the very early phase? Can somebody explain to me how the supply right after the attempted hydra bust was already in favor of Shine? I just can't understand.
He prob made too many cannons. I think he prob expected Shine to keep pressing but Shine macroed after the first poke. Shine sniped enough temps to ensure Snow’s mid game wasn’t strong enough to bust him.
|
Snow still has a chance. Vs Shinee he's huge favourite, and it's playable with some luck vs effort.
|
On September 15 2026 20:49 Rainalcar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:47 M2 wrote:On September 15 2026 20:44 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:On September 15 2026 20:40 thezanursic wrote:
I've always been a balance through maps type guy... but idk man. Maybe it is time to admit that after almost 30 years, the game has been optimized enough for us to say that Protoss is just weak compared to the other two races (At the highest levels of play, I'm well aware it has big advantages for beginners). Nah these maps are most zerg favored ever. its the maps. last few years the map pool has seen terrrrrrrrrible pvz winrates. We had a few seasons with maps that had almost 50% winrate for each MU. bring those maps back and suddenly it looks balanced again. I think both are true. P needs some help, but the last seasons were crazy Zerg maps. Soulkey won two titles with a 100% win rate ZvP maps in the pool. Not 90%, not even 99% - 100% like wtf, meanwhile island maps are too P favored to be added to the pool. No island map was ever 100% win rate for P This is not true. Sparkle for instance was Zerg favoured. There are so many unexplored avenues with island maps.
Yeah sure, perhaps even the island maps are not so P favored, but this is the only maps we know where P did well vs both races in the past
|
On September 15 2026 20:51 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:49 Rainalcar wrote:On September 15 2026 20:47 M2 wrote:On September 15 2026 20:44 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:On September 15 2026 20:40 thezanursic wrote:
I've always been a balance through maps type guy... but idk man. Maybe it is time to admit that after almost 30 years, the game has been optimized enough for us to say that Protoss is just weak compared to the other two races (At the highest levels of play, I'm well aware it has big advantages for beginners). Nah these maps are most zerg favored ever. its the maps. last few years the map pool has seen terrrrrrrrrible pvz winrates. We had a few seasons with maps that had almost 50% winrate for each MU. bring those maps back and suddenly it looks balanced again. I think both are true. P needs some help, but the last seasons were crazy Zerg maps. Soulkey won two titles with a 100% win rate ZvP maps in the pool. Not 90%, not even 99% - 100% like wtf, meanwhile island maps are too P favored to be added to the pool. No island map was ever 100% win rate for P This is not true. Sparkle for instance was Zerg favoured. There are so many unexplored avenues with island maps. Yeah sure, perhaps even the island maps are not so P favored, but this is the only maps we know where P did well vs both races in the past
Part of this becomes an ASL organizational thing, then. Because adding an island map causes it to either be banned and not played until Ro4. I guess they could force the first set to be on it like with Aiolos this Ro16 but yeah.
|
On September 15 2026 20:51 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:49 Rainalcar wrote:On September 15 2026 20:47 M2 wrote:On September 15 2026 20:44 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:On September 15 2026 20:40 thezanursic wrote:
I've always been a balance through maps type guy... but idk man. Maybe it is time to admit that after almost 30 years, the game has been optimized enough for us to say that Protoss is just weak compared to the other two races (At the highest levels of play, I'm well aware it has big advantages for beginners). Nah these maps are most zerg favored ever. its the maps. last few years the map pool has seen terrrrrrrrrible pvz winrates. We had a few seasons with maps that had almost 50% winrate for each MU. bring those maps back and suddenly it looks balanced again. I think both are true. P needs some help, but the last seasons were crazy Zerg maps. Soulkey won two titles with a 100% win rate ZvP maps in the pool. Not 90%, not even 99% - 100% like wtf, meanwhile island maps are too P favored to be added to the pool. No island map was ever 100% win rate for P This is not true. Sparkle for instance was Zerg favoured. There are so many unexplored avenues with island maps. Yeah sure, perhaps even the island maps are not so P favored, but this is the only maps we know where P did well vs both races in the past
Predominantly so,yes
|
Island maps would go hand in hand with matchup specific map pool. It is hard to believe that the Korean community is so against the idea.
|
Sparkle was not Zerg favoured in ZvP -_-
|
if effort wins vs shinee, i still see snow as a favorite idk
|
On September 15 2026 20:55 RowdierBob wrote:
Sparkle was not Zerg favoured in ZvP -_-
Do I have wrong numbers? Wasn't it, in ASL?
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES51445 Posts
is today we won't ban colorless fate against zerg day?
|
Shinee's valkyrie control has looked good so far, don't think he's done anything to stop effort from powering up though.
|
On September 15 2026 20:58 Rainalcar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:55 RowdierBob wrote:
Sparkle was not Zerg favoured in ZvP -_- Do I have wrong numbers? Wasn't it, in ASL?
The sample wasn’t big as it was only used one season but believe it was 11-7 in P favour.
It was a lottt more imba for ZvT. Terrans couldn’t beat Zerg. Might be what you’re thinking of.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES51445 Posts
Poll: Recommend Losers Game Set 1?No (6) 75% Yes (1) 13% If you have time (1) 13% 8 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers Game Set 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
|
On September 15 2026 21:02 RowdierBob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:58 Rainalcar wrote:On September 15 2026 20:55 RowdierBob wrote:
Sparkle was not Zerg favoured in ZvP -_- Do I have wrong numbers? Wasn't it, in ASL? The sample wasn’t big as it was only used one season but believe it was 11-7 in P favour. It was a lottt more imba for ZvT. Terrans couldn’t beat Zerg. Might be what you’re thinking of.
No sorry I'm not talking about only one matchup but in total.
Yes, I remember tvz was terrible. I just wanted to say that island maps are not necessarily terrible for z or p favoured.
|
On September 15 2026 20:51 RowdierBob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2026 20:46 TMNT wrote:
Back to game 1 on Octagon, I missed the early part guys. Did Snow lose some probes or throw away some zealots in the very early phase? Can somebody explain to me how the supply right after the attempted hydra bust was already in favor of Shine? I just can't understand. He prob made too many cannons. I think he prob expected Shine to keep pressing but Shine macroed after the first poke. Shine sniped enough temps to ensure Snow’s mid game wasn’t strong enough to bust him.
Watching the replay and judging from hindsight, he probably made 2 cannons more than needed. But judging at the moment Shine semi-dived in, it was justified having at least 6 cannons at that time. There was so many hydras, plus at that very moment, the corsair saw hydras still being built.
The balance between cannon vs non-cannon is very delicate. As is the balance between hydra-drone from the Zerg side. Looks like a game where Zerg hits the sweetest spot.
Still, you should not get a 20-80 game just because of spending 300 extra minerals to ensure survival. More importantly, Zerg should not even get a 50-50 game after having the chance to kill Protoss.
|
This Shinee guy has no business playing in ro16...
|
That felt like a very fast gg considering it is your tournament life on the line. Obviously effort ist gonna win it from that point in 99 out of 100 games but you should atleast try right?
|
Now watch Snow die to hydra bust because of underbuilding cannons, probably.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
