EPThero's stream:
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D - Page 13
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
Recommended Games + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [Game 1] + + Show Spoiler [Game 2] + + Show Spoiler [Winner's Game] + + Show Spoiler [Losers' Game] + + Show Spoiler [Final Game] + | ||
|
prosatan
Romania9286 Posts
hero's stream: | ||
|
Uldridge
Belgium5216 Posts
P is basically a collection of traumatized/vein people: mini and Rain are the "genius that couldn't live up to their potential", Bisu is basically a popstar, Best is traumatized by Julyzerg in his OSL finals (I'm sure he gets flashbacks to game 2 every so often) and Snow has failed a finals so many times he seems to have given up. Maybe TULGOD is our only savior. Mind you, I am a Pboy for life,but their games have been so godawfully uninspiring that I can't give them the love they deserve at the moment. | ||
|
prosatan
Romania9286 Posts
On September 15 2026 23:09 Uldridge wrote: Here's the REAL question Rainacar, why do P players have 100+ APM LESS than the other races? It's beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're more lazy and unwilling to push the envelope. P is basically a collection of traumatized/vein people: mini and Rain are the "genius that couldn't live up to their potential", Bisu is basically a popstar, Best is traumatized by Julyzerg in his OSL finals (I'm sure he gets flashbacks to game 2 every so often) and Snow has failed a finals so many times he seems to have given up. Maybe TULGOD is our only savior. Mind you, I am a Pboy for life,but their games have been so godawfully uninspiring that I can't give them the love they deserve at the moment. Indeed, maybe TULGOD is our king and savior  | ||
|
Rainalcar
Croatia535 Posts
It's just remarkable to believe that hundreds of players of a certain race have simply been lazy for 20 plus years. Just remarkable. Contrary to Occam's razor and scientific approach. | ||
|
Rainalcar
Croatia535 Posts
On September 15 2026 23:10 prosatan wrote: Indeed, maybe TULGOD is our king and savior Tulbo is hopeless :D | ||
|
Uldridge
Belgium5216 Posts
| ||
|
WGT-Baal
France3547 Posts
| ||
|
Rainalcar
Croatia535 Posts
On September 15 2026 23:21 WGT-Baal wrote: I miss the days of reach and anytime with all the funky 1 base builds Yeah. Or jangbis one base play vs zero in the semis. Protoss cannot even contemplate playing 1 base today. Well, gl hf all for the rest of ASL. I wish you least number of zvzs possible. | ||
|
PachiBW
24 Posts
On September 15 2026 23:04 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: not blaming the players other than shuttle, more so blaming the maps. i don't agree with nerfing the odyssey features that were supposed to help protoss. but also you can't really say the top protoss players were in good condition this season Player condition really isn't the primary determining factor (well it is if you're protoss, but not if you're zerg, and that's the actual problem). I regularly see Soma play terribly, but he still wins those games off the back of race imbalance. There's fundamentally something wrong with the map design philosophies. They need to overhaul how they think about the game and the first step of that is admitting that it isn't a disparity in skill between protoss and zerg players. But I don't think making new maps is going to solve the problem, because the top level players have shown time and time again that their theory about the game is often flat out wrong (see Roaring Currents). Ultimately zerg is the most adaptable race so any new maps will be to their favor as they can more easily exploit unforeseen map issues. | ||
|
Mrs Crabbleman
36 Posts
On September 15 2026 22:15 Monochromatic wrote: I am so sick of seeing this balance whine. It's not a design problem, it's a sample size problem - run enough tournaments and all possible outcomes will happen, even the unlikely ones. There were 6 protoss in the tournament. If you give each one a perfect coinflip in every matchup, the odds of none of them advancing is 1/64. There's been 22 tournaments. It's going to happen eventually. Calling for a balance patch in regards to a statistical eventuality is shortsighted. The meta will sort itself out eventually, be it in better strategies, execution, or maps. Yes it is the same 3 people that never shut the fuck up with the balance whine. And a very good chance they don't touch the game. It's like teen angst or something. Gives me hemorrhoids. It also drowns out the people who throw in a reasonable comment here and there. Awful. Not only were there 6 protoss but they all played bad. Best was the only one showing a couple ggs especially that last one vs Rush, but still throwing in the end. Otherwise super uninspired play from P and many mistakes. It would be reasonable if people were constructive about maps like Soulforged instead of just frothing at the mouth and flailing their limbs. But it's a forum so the same 2-3 people just dominate the discussion with meaningless complaints and no solutions. And when a top protoss (Bonyth) comments that people in the thread are coming to the wrong conclusions, he's just rolled over and ignored to make way for more ranting and raving by the pleb class. | ||
|
prosatan
Romania9286 Posts
he is watching the major league (bisu's stream) and he is receiving a lot of balloons ! | ||
|
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1301 Posts
On September 15 2026 23:12 Rainalcar wrote: Feel free to give me the APM stats. But we all know Speed is mediocre his 500+ notwithstanding. It's just remarkable to believe that hundreds of players of a certain race have simply been lazy for 20 plus years. Just remarkable. Contrary to Occam's razor and scientific approach. Speed is mediocre offline, online he is considered terran player #3 behind rush and light. Offline is much less about peak skill potential and more about mental fortitude in translating online performance to offline. Leta for example generally loses everything online. Offline he somehow manages to play at the same level as online, which in an offline setting is an amazing performance. It is also why ASL games are generally very mid or bad compared to the average online game. | ||
|
TMNT
3328 Posts
On September 15 2026 23:09 Uldridge wrote: Here's the REAL question Rainacar, why do P players have 100+ APM LESS than the other races? It's beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're more lazy and unwilling to push the envelope. P is basically a collection of traumatized/vein people: mini and Rain are the "genius that couldn't live up to their potential", Bisu is basically a popstar, Best is traumatized by Julyzerg in his OSL finals (I'm sure he gets flashbacks to game 2 every so often) and Snow has failed a finals so many times he seems to have given up. Maybe TULGOD is our only savior. Mind you, I am a Pboy for life,but their games have been so godawfully uninspiring that I can't give them the love they deserve at the moment. They don't lol. Bisu and Mini have as many apm as any player from the other race. But apm means fuck all in the first place anyway so why bring that up? Plenty of low level Protoss also have more apm than Snow. Plenty of top Zerg and Terran have as low apm as Protoss. On average, Protoss players exhibit lower apm. And by average, I mean the entire population of thousands of Protoss players, not just the pros. But that's because playing the race doesn't require more clicking, and that's why I said they exhibit lower apm, not that they have lower apm. Like, do you think the thousands of players who pick Protoss just happen to be slower than the thousands of players who pick Zerg. Just like that, for many years? It's like saying a pianist who plays the Moonlight sonata 1st mov is slower or lazyer than one who plays the Pathetique sonata 3rd mov lol. | ||
|
Uldridge
Belgium5216 Posts
| ||
|
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1301 Posts
On September 16 2026 00:28 Uldridge wrote: Yes, I do think the slower piano players are lazier. That's not even a matter of debate, that's just a fact. Less keys = less effort necessary = laziness. You can't argue with that logic. eh that makes no sense. It is also about cognitive bandwidth alocation and efficiency. Soulkey during his peak years averaged 280 apm, even though he can play 330+. There is a valid argument to be made to spend more time gathering information by looking around and clicking on units for health and grades than to input actions nonstop and miss infotmation You can see this in most games at the very very peak. They can play super fast, but dont on purpose. reading info and abusing info > nonstop input. In super smash brothers melee the top 10, if they meet and duel, play noticably slower than players they can easily beat by just inputting actions nonstop. | ||
|
Smorrie
Netherlands2947 Posts
First game in the winner's set was near perfect play. His control was great, only engaging in favorable positions and retreating otherwise to maximize value, good map awareness, defense vs DT, continuous lurker spreads, always poking to find weaknesses, expanding well, and his macro stayed on-point throughout the full game. I don't think Snow played bad by any means but Shine was at a different level today. And Snow then mentally spiraled playing terribly in the final set. If Shine keeps this form he'll be scary opponent for anyone in the remaining tournament. | ||
|
TMNT
3328 Posts
On September 16 2026 00:28 Uldridge wrote: Yes, I do think the slower piano players are lazier. That's not even a matter of debate, that's just a fact. Less keys = less effort necessary = laziness. You can't argue with that logic. That's not my analogy though. The pianist who plays Moonlight sonata is not necessarily slower, he just plays a slower piece of music. Just think about the bigger picture : do you think if at the beginning of their career the Zerg players now chose to play Protoss, and vice versa, we would see Protoss with 100+ apm more than Zerg now? Lmao no. | ||
|
Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
| ||
|
Uldridge
Belgium5216 Posts
So if current T or Z pros would've picked P, they'd become a boring, non innovating, overly relying on the forge expand (almost 20 years ago now, lmao even) lazy bums. | ||
|
Talaris
Switzerland766 Posts
On September 15 2026 20:49 InkieB2B wrote: Inbefore Snow wins this season and map balance discussion turns super non straightforward :D This didn't age well...errr... didn't age at all :D | ||
| ||
