[ASL11] Semifinals A - Page 9

On May 30 2021 22:18 TMNT wrote:
It was actually 3rd place for Bisu in ASL4, not 4th.

Not trying to undermine Mini, but come on, he's on a hot run this ASL. Some people only watch ASL and draw conclusions from the small sample size they see. Long-term speaking, he's still behind Bisu, Best and Snow.

Best is the best toss in the world PvT but Mini is much better PvZ and also better PvP

LpTraxamillion

265 Posts

May 31 2021 07:37 GMT

#162

On May 31 2021 04:06 ruhtraeel wrote:
Mini's PvZ might carry him to a championship this season.

It's funny because his PvZ (and PvP due to the season where it was 4 Protosses in the Ro 4) is so disproportionately better than his PvT (even more so than Bisu) that it's a total dice roll as to how far he'll go in a tournament. Because of this, even if he wins the championship, I still am hesitant in calling him the best Protoss right now, when Best and even Bisu have more well-rounded matchups.

Bit of info: Mini has played something like 30 games of PvZ in the ASL, and something like 15 total games COMBINED of PvT and PvP. He just seems to roll the PvZ matchup way more.

Also there is just more Zerg representation overall because of all the races Zerg has by for the most top tier players active at any given time

There might be 2 terrans, maybe 2-3 toss capable of winning an ASL that are active at any one time. There are 6+ active Zergs capable of winning ASL; and the results show that, especially if you subtract Flash the outlier out of the equation

ruhtraeel

Canada138 Posts

May 31 2021 08:25 GMT

#163

On May 31 2021 16:33 LpTraxamillion wrote:

Show nested quote +

Best is the best toss in the world PvT but Mini is much better PvZ and also better PvP

I'd personally say that Best is better at PvZ and PvP than Mini is at PvT.

Sirris

681 Posts

June 03 2021 07:40 GMT

#164

On May 25 2021 00:31 Destroyer wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 24 2021 12:49 RWLabs wrote:

On May 24 2021 11:26 Magic Powers wrote:

On May 24 2021 10:55 staatbauhaus wrote:
Bisu and other pros were saying Mini brought a new meta into the series. Thought some of you should know before shitting on Queen too much.

Would love to know what Bisu means by that, because I don't see what's "new" about any of what Mini did. He used a variety of (well-known) builds so he could stay unpredictable. That's a basic requirement when facing a strong, intelligent opponent like Queen, you can't use the same two builds over and over or you'll get punished. And Queen arguably did punish Mini eventually with a ling all-in, but in my opinion he threw that game. Should've been a closer series.

Not trying to take anything away from Mini, I think with the (really intelligent) way he played he deserved to have a 3-2 lead. But the 4-1 roflstomp was more Queen messing up than Mini showing a new meta.

Did no one in the thread mention that Mini didn't scout in games 2, 3, and 5?

What Bisu and Sea (and all of Ygosu) were impressed by is that by not scouting, the Protoss can pull the tech tree forwards quite a bit- according to Bisu it's about 100 extra minerals by the natural expansion timing. This means a horde of zealots before the Zerg is ready, as well as faster tech. All in the early game where every second is precious.

The weaknesses to this build are 12 hatchery and 9 pool. So after Mini did a no scout build twice, Zero tried to punish him with a 12 hatchery. Only, Mini knew this would happen, so he did a 99 gate. As for the 9 pool option, well we saw what happened in game 5. Zero blundered the offense after getting tilted in that game, true, but Mini is one of the best Protosses at defending against lings thanks to his flawless micro.

For more background, Mini is known as a 'pervert Protoss' who does off the wall builds often (basically 90% of his Youtube content), and is renowned for his micro. This no-scout strategy is essentially the perfect strategy for him, which relies on unpredictability and excellent micro to fend against advantageous builds.

I'm sure Zergs would adapt quickly to this, but I can see progamers skipping scouting every once in a while after this.

EDIT: May I also remind everyone that Queen's ZvP was 90+ before this series

Oh finally someone mentioned here. Mini really brought different meta into those games. Not scouting untill hydrabust timing (which is pretty much the only thing you really want to scout), was great. Also he made only one cannon and no more, when he was sure there is no hydrabust comming. Another thing to mention, he was saving his zealots and massing them instead of sending one by one around map with questionable results, while only faking his pressure (forcing Queen to make zerglings), that really gave him more substantial edge when +1 upg / legs combo was done.

Absolutely. People aren't giving Mini enough credit for how well he played. It was almost perfect after the first game. Incredible. He hit timings that Queen/Zero was not prepared for at all. For zergs thats the hardest thing to deal with. Your entire game is about predicting the early game and setting yourself up to win the mid/late game. Mini subverted that beautifully.

Dante08

Singapore4203 Posts

June 05 2021 16:54 GMT

#165

Just watched the games, god dam Mini played so well. It really might be revolution 2.0

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