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[ASL6] Ro8 Shuttle vs Action - Page 7

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9539 Posts
October 14 2018 13:24 GMT
#121
That's my boy Shuttle; pulls through whenever you least expect of him!

Thanks for LR-ing the games guys!
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8898 Posts
October 14 2018 14:12 GMT
#122
On October 14 2018 22:24 2Pacalypse- wrote:
That's my boy Shuttle; pulls through whenever you least expect of him!

Thanks for LR-ing the games guys!


LR like in the old days 2Pacalypse-
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Aminus
Profile Joined October 2018
Bulgaria35 Posts
October 14 2018 15:14 GMT
#123
Shuttle is the best PvZ player right now and with such epic style!
The dirty cheesy zerg got right what he deserved. Such clean play i havent seen in long time from no other protoss player. That dude has real protoss blood in his veins, His play is so spirited, reminds me of Jangbi a bit. Thats how a protoss should look like, smashing zerg army emanating strong warrior spirit.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-14 17:56:47
October 14 2018 17:56 GMT
#124
Not the most surprising result, but I really did want to see more of Action. His playstyle can be reminiscent of Shine, but so far, he seems to make it work. Sad about game 4 since showing that hydra accidentally was a mistake that cost him. As for game 5, it looks like Action forgoes solid defense, aka he had no sunkens, not even a single one at any of his bases. 2-3 sunkens do a great job of scaring away a protoss lol, but I'm sure he preferred to have units that he can micro. Still, it feels like if he scouted the gates, he would've known it was coming then he would've canceled fourth and gotten some defense.

Regardless, well played by Shuttle. He was the deserving player here.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1602 Posts
October 14 2018 18:46 GMT
#125
Shuttle has always been a beast at pvz and has godly storms. I didn't expect such a close series from action, no matter how good he's been lately.
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
October 14 2018 18:52 GMT
#126
Man, being a Shuttle fan must be very tough. On some days like today he delivers and sometimes (like in his games with JD in KSL) he is just mediocre.

I anticipated that this series would be very interesting and both players did not disappoint! I am almost sad for Action, he did great. But then again, zergs should lose whenever possible, even when they're cool :D
WriterReV hwaiting!
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
October 14 2018 19:06 GMT
#127
Shuttle's timing push in G5 was clinical; really well executed. Surprised Action got as greedy as he did in response - he made not just one, but two extraneous rounds of drones when he should have been pumping mutas for templar-sniping and sunkening / simcitying his bases.

On a meta level, Sylphid's closed mid makes a 2-base zeal/arch/temp push really difficult to fight. Action should have anticipated something like this. Instead it looks like his game sense was off.

Very well done by Shuttle. Looking forward to Flash vs Mini and the Ro4!
Что?
arbiter_md
Profile Joined February 2008
Moldova1219 Posts
October 14 2018 19:55 GMT
#128
Action looked very weak today. The only games won was a lucky 9pool vs 12 next and shit-o-bahn. In the games he lost, it was a very bad execution and decision making.
The copyright of this post belongs solely to me. Nobody else, not teamliquid, not greetech and not even blizzard have any share of this copyright. You can copy, distribute, use in commercial purposes the content of this post or parts of it freely.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51607 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-14 22:39:38
October 14 2018 22:38 GMT
#129
i was surprised at action's mindset going into this series. he would've beaten shuttle in straight up games for sure but he felt way too confident in his cheese strats working out for him.
lesson learned the hard way.

with action out, i think effort vs flash is the only worthy finals. anything else will be a huge disappointment draw wise.
Commentator
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1259 Posts
October 14 2018 23:38 GMT
#130
On October 15 2018 07:38 GTR wrote:
he would've beaten shuttle in straight up games for sure


Oh wow, you should be a bettor, with such confidence you could get rich.
Yanokabo
Profile Joined October 2018
268 Posts
October 15 2018 01:02 GMT
#131
I think last flash is the more most likely finals and 2 best players ,followed closely by effort flash. I know action was everyone’s golden pony boy for the last week but he’s really still only a b+ tier pro with a lot of shortcomings so don’t be too mad that he lost
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4179 Posts
October 15 2018 03:14 GMT
#132
Am I the only one who thinks that Action did not accidentally reveal the hydra? His plan was to use the proxy hatch to make just 3-4 hydras to scare Shuttle into making mass cannons while he continued to drone at home which he did and take his mineral base. If Action was going for a bust he wouldn't have that many drones at his nat. Shuttle eventually figured that out and even canceled one of his cannons. Action was actually doing ok until he lost like 9 drones to a DT.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-15 03:42:24
October 15 2018 03:42 GMT
#133
Well, I mean it's possible that that's what he had in mind. We'd never know until he personally talks about the games. I personally think he should've just went for 3 hatch hydra bust. Shuttle never scouted it, and had a single cannon+2 zealots at home. 99% chance that he'd win the game imo since Shuttle only started adding cannons when he saw the hydra otherwise it didn't look like he was going to. It's too bad seeing as Action had some cool strats this ASL, but he keeps going up. Hopefully, the semifinals next time!
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Moopower
Profile Joined May 2017
128 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-15 04:05:35
October 15 2018 04:01 GMT
#134
I wish they'd make lair a requirement for hydra speed and range to be available, that way it'll make hydra busts less abusable in ZvP. I dont know why but in the old days hydra bust was an all or nothing strategy, and usually resulted in zerg losing if it didn't kill the protoss, but now we have games where they more or less equalize 50-50 if protoss defends it, so zerg doesn't take any risk if it fails but can outright win the game if it works. Anyone can tell me why this is the case now adays where zerg can easily transition into mid to late game without much disadvantage? Before you can see that zerg drone counts were lower and for them to get back up in macro and economy they have to make several rounds of drones making their army weaker momentarily until they get their eco back up and that's when protoss can exploit and usually kill them. But now it seems there's no timing window for that and zerg somehow has the economy or the protoss's economy was stunted so much by the attempted hydra bust that it just sets them too far back that zerg can just come back in the game.


Or they can at the very least make the upgrades take longer. There's too short of a timing window for protoss to be able to scout them in time when speedlings deny probe and zealot scouting.
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7221 Posts
October 15 2018 06:59 GMT
#135
It's always nice to hear from keyboard tier players!
Entusman #12
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5600 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-15 07:28:55
October 15 2018 07:25 GMT
#136
On October 15 2018 07:38 GTR wrote:
i was surprised at action's mindset going into this series. he would've beaten shuttle in straight up games for sure but he felt way too confident in his cheese strats working out for him.
lesson learned the hard way.

with action out, i think effort vs flash is the only worthy finals. anything else will be a huge disappointment draw wise.

I didn't see anything in this series that made it look like Action had an advantage in late game tbh.

On October 15 2018 12:14 Dante08 wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that Action did not accidentally reveal the hydra? His plan was to use the proxy hatch to make just 3-4 hydras to scare Shuttle into making mass cannons while he continued to drone at home which he did and take his mineral base. If Action was going for a bust he wouldn't have that many drones at his nat. Shuttle eventually figured that out and even canceled one of his cannons. Action was actually doing ok until he lost like 9 drones to a DT.

I thought that Action figured Shuttle had read him when he saw all those larva building nothing in the main. That cancelled cannon was actually a forge that Shuttle wanted to place in another location.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
October 15 2018 08:51 GMT
#137
On October 15 2018 12:14 Dante08 wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that Action did not accidentally reveal the hydra? His plan was to use the proxy hatch to make just 3-4 hydras to scare Shuttle into making mass cannons while he continued to drone at home which he did and take his mineral base. If Action was going for a bust he wouldn't have that many drones at his nat. Shuttle eventually figured that out and even canceled one of his cannons. Action was actually doing ok until he lost like 9 drones to a DT.

But then why would he proxy the hatchery? He's guaranteed to lose the hatch if he doesn't immediately end the game. There's no way you wouldn't take your own mineral only or the 3 o'clock base instead if you were planning on going to mid-game. Also Action's overlord could see everything, including the fact that Shuttle only had 1 cannon, and was wide open for the bust. Even if he wanted to just make 4 hydras, if he had waited and gone in with them together, they would have taken out the cannon and caused a lot more trouble for shuttle, combined with the lings. I can't see how the hydra reveal wasn't a mistake.
GANDHISAUCE
radadaundandan
Profile Joined May 2007
Bulgaria3148 Posts
October 15 2018 09:15 GMT
#138
Have to admit that Shuttle has probably the best pvz currently. Action seemed like the lesser player the whole series. Glad Shuttle goes forward and hopping for a pvt semi. GGs
Flash returns...
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1717 Posts
October 15 2018 09:49 GMT
#139
On October 15 2018 17:51 De4ngus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2018 12:14 Dante08 wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that Action did not accidentally reveal the hydra? His plan was to use the proxy hatch to make just 3-4 hydras to scare Shuttle into making mass cannons while he continued to drone at home which he did and take his mineral base. If Action was going for a bust he wouldn't have that many drones at his nat. Shuttle eventually figured that out and even canceled one of his cannons. Action was actually doing ok until he lost like 9 drones to a DT.

But then why would he proxy the hatchery? He's guaranteed to lose the hatch if he doesn't immediately end the game. There's no way you wouldn't take your own mineral only or the 3 o'clock base instead if you were planning on going to mid-game. Also Action's overlord could see everything, including the fact that Shuttle only had 1 cannon, and was wide open for the bust. Even if he wanted to just make 4 hydras, if he had waited and gone in with them together, they would have taken out the cannon and caused a lot more trouble for shuttle, combined with the lings. I can't see how the hydra reveal wasn't a mistake.

Both dont make sense to me. Like you said, proxying it there meant it likely wasnt a fake. But why even move the hydra to the front of Shuttle’s base at all if you dont plan on showing it. Even a random probe or zealot moving out could reveal your hydra. Just leave it at the proxy hatch until you have the amount you need.
Action was my pick for dark horse but I agree he was the lesser player this series. GG
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8668 Posts
October 15 2018 10:23 GMT
#140
On October 15 2018 18:49 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2018 17:51 De4ngus wrote:
On October 15 2018 12:14 Dante08 wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that Action did not accidentally reveal the hydra? His plan was to use the proxy hatch to make just 3-4 hydras to scare Shuttle into making mass cannons while he continued to drone at home which he did and take his mineral base. If Action was going for a bust he wouldn't have that many drones at his nat. Shuttle eventually figured that out and even canceled one of his cannons. Action was actually doing ok until he lost like 9 drones to a DT.

But then why would he proxy the hatchery? He's guaranteed to lose the hatch if he doesn't immediately end the game. There's no way you wouldn't take your own mineral only or the 3 o'clock base instead if you were planning on going to mid-game. Also Action's overlord could see everything, including the fact that Shuttle only had 1 cannon, and was wide open for the bust. Even if he wanted to just make 4 hydras, if he had waited and gone in with them together, they would have taken out the cannon and caused a lot more trouble for shuttle, combined with the lings. I can't see how the hydra reveal wasn't a mistake.

Both dont make sense to me. Like you said, proxying it there meant it likely wasnt a fake. But why even move the hydra to the front of Shuttle’s base at all if you dont plan on showing it. Even a random probe or zealot moving out could reveal your hydra. Just leave it at the proxy hatch until you have the amount you need.
Action was my pick for dark horse but I agree he was the lesser player this series. GG


I think it was a move to show Shuttle that there is indeed a proxy hatch and he should build a billion cannons. Action didn't even build any hydras in his main or nat. I think if he was serious about the hydra all-in in the beginning he would have at least build a few hydras there.
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