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On October 10 2018 09:42 BisuDagger wrote:
Rain's elimination in KSL and now here does major damage to his credibility. It helps solidify that protoss maps and the PvP match really helped him get his ASL victory. I'm not arguing Rain isn't good or wasn't deserving his championship, but he is showing that he isn't quite the whole package we were all hoping he was.
Yeah, he sure is no Bisu  .
Seriously, though, I love watching Rain play, as he produces a lot of exciting games despite often making bad decisions, but as evidenced by his recent stompings at the hands of Jaedong and Effort, I don't think he has the PvZ to fill the void Bisu left. I'm not a Bisu fanboy, but his PvZ was just sublime. Yes, Hero and Shine both wrecked him in past ASLs, but I still think no one else can quite approach the match-up like Bisu, both in terms of his legendary multitasking and his understanding of the MU.
Rain's mechanics and multitasking are pretty crisp, but not quite Bisu-style-wtf-ninja-batman-DTs-corsairs-reavers-everywhere, and he keeps overextending himself in bad engagements, suiciding armies for nothing. Maybe if he (or perhaps Mini) really practiced their asses off and upped their game they could reach that level.
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On October 11 2018 14:20 darktreb wrote:
Effort vs Flash rematch it's time.
Except the fact that it's probably going to be a set of 7-8 minute games with a lot of zergling / muta allins.
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On October 11 2018 16:34 kogeT wrote:Except the fact that it's probably going to be a set of 7-8 minute games with a lot of zergling / muta allins.
Like in the good old times?
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On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it.
Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD.
... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players.
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On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players.
I'm the Flash of D- players. Outmacroing everyone who isn't D or higher.
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On October 11 2018 17:35 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. I'm the Flash of D- players. Outmacroing everyone who isn't D or higher. .
I run like Usain Bolt, swim like Michael Phelps and fly like a bird.
Ain't nobody that comes close to me being a turd.
I done tussled with a whale; handcuffed lightning, thrown thunder in jail,
Ain't nobody that comes close to me at the level of fail.
I fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee,
I play PvZ like Bisu
hahahaha
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On October 11 2018 16:34 kogeT wrote:Except the fact that it's probably going to be a set of 7-8 minute games with a lot of zergling / muta allins.
Maybe, but Effort's always had good mind games against Flash in big games. It's what separates him and Jaedong from other Zergs who face Flash. I remember right after Effort's OSL win over Flash, they met in Proleague and Effort faked a Lurker build knowing Flash was expecting cheese. Instead Effort went to Hive right away.
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Just watched the VOD, great series!
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On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players.
What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play.
How do you seriously not understand this?
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On October 11 2018 22:12 Li_Xin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play. How do you seriously not understand this?
Yes I understand your point about what Rain meant and I agree. I was just joking because I couldn't resist myself after reading your reply :D
Shake hands bro?
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On October 11 2018 16:34 kogeT wrote:Except the fact that it's probably going to be a set of 7-8 minute games with a lot of zergling / muta allins.
What? Eon doesnt play in this
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On October 12 2018 00:03 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 22:12 Li_Xin wrote:On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play. How do you seriously not understand this? Yes I understand your point about what Rain meant and I agree. I was just joking because I couldn't resist myself after reading your reply :D Shake hands bro?
Yes sir :D
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Bisutopia19393 Posts
On October 12 2018 10:58 Li_Xin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2018 00:03 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 22:12 Li_Xin wrote:On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play. How do you seriously not understand this? Yes I understand your point about what Rain meant and I agree. I was just joking because I couldn't resist myself after reading your reply :D Shake hands bro? Yes sir :D
Let's back up a second. I honesty don't see where Rain copies Bisu's style at all. I feel like Rain tries to play too passive, uses very different unit compositions, and chooses different upgrade paths then Bisu typically would.
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On October 12 2018 11:09 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2018 10:58 Li_Xin wrote:On October 12 2018 00:03 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 22:12 Li_Xin wrote:On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play. How do you seriously not understand this? Yes I understand your point about what Rain meant and I agree. I was just joking because I couldn't resist myself after reading your reply :D Shake hands bro? Yes sir :D Let's back up a second. I honesty don't see where Rain copies Bisu's style at all. I feel like Rain tries to play too passive, uses very different unit compositions, and chooses different upgrade paths then Bisu typically would.
Lately, yea, I would agree with that.
What do you mean by 'different upgrade paths' though? Do you just mean how Rain isn't doing the Neo-Bisu build anymore or...?
To clarify what build I meant: it's the build Stargate -> +1 air attack -> +1 ground attack -> citadel. The build Bisu loved before military. Rain was doing it a lot too until lately.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On October 12 2018 11:09 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2018 10:58 Li_Xin wrote:On October 12 2018 00:03 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 22:12 Li_Xin wrote:On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play. How do you seriously not understand this? Yes I understand your point about what Rain meant and I agree. I was just joking because I couldn't resist myself after reading your reply :D Shake hands bro? Yes sir :D Let's back up a second. I honesty don't see where Rain copies Bisu's style at all. I feel like Rain tries to play too passive, uses very different unit compositions, and chooses different upgrade paths then Bisu typically would.
I believe what Rain was trying to say was that he'll do a frontal assault while he drops a dark templar or go for a storm drop in the main/expansion etc.. Given, Bisu is a lot more effective at what he does, be it keep his corsairs alive, or kill drones with his dts/hts.
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Anyone else think that maelstrom should be reconsidered against muta snipes? Seemed like rain was in desperate need for an answer vs them in game 4.
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Bisutopia19393 Posts
On October 12 2018 12:22 Li_Xin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2018 11:09 BisuDagger wrote:On October 12 2018 10:58 Li_Xin wrote:On October 12 2018 00:03 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 22:12 Li_Xin wrote:On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play. How do you seriously not understand this? Yes I understand your point about what Rain meant and I agree. I was just joking because I couldn't resist myself after reading your reply :D Shake hands bro? Yes sir :D Let's back up a second. I honesty don't see where Rain copies Bisu's style at all. I feel like Rain tries to play too passive, uses very different unit compositions, and chooses different upgrade paths then Bisu typically would. Lately, yea, I would agree with that. What do you mean by 'different upgrade paths' though? Do you just mean how Rain isn't doing the Neo-Bisu build anymore or...? To clarify what build I meant: it's the build Stargate -> +1 air attack -> +1 ground attack -> citadel. The build Bisu loved before military. Rain was doing it a lot too until lately.
Yeah, Rain overlooked +1 speedlot early on. Bisu solved how to use Zealot centric openings effectively. Although I haven't really seen the Neo Bisu Build in any recent offline PvZs. I wonder what about these maps makes the players choose other build orders. Aside from the Neo build, Bisu was actually using faster reaver tech quite a bit before he left. It seems like Protoss has decided to go back to trusting storms over scarabs again lol.
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Rain is no bisu but bisu will still be gone for a while so rain is one of the only hopes Protoss fans have for a new gosu champion tier toss player. Maybe bisu will be forced to do a lot of pushups in the army and come back a better winner in bw.
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On October 12 2018 11:09 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2018 10:58 Li_Xin wrote:On October 12 2018 00:03 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 22:12 Li_Xin wrote:On October 11 2018 17:32 JieXian wrote:On October 11 2018 09:38 Li_Xin wrote:Rain does play like Bisu in PvZ... He's just not nearly as good at it. Hahahaha, you're technically right. In that case I too play PvZ like Bisu, TvZ like Flash, TvT like Flash and ZvZ like kespa-JD. ... but I too, am not nearly as good at them, and get owned by C rank players. What Rain meant was that he tries to copy Bisu's distinct style in PvZ, and Stork's style in PvT. He doesn't have the skills of Bisu in PvZ, but it's the same style of play. How do you seriously not understand this? Yes I understand your point about what Rain meant and I agree. I was just joking because I couldn't resist myself after reading your reply :D Shake hands bro? Yes sir :D Let's back up a second. I honesty don't see where Rain copies Bisu's style at all. I feel like Rain tries to play too passive, uses very different unit compositions, and chooses different upgrade paths then Bisu typically would.
Now, after Li_Xin's post, the way I read Rain's comment was that he was asked a question in that interview and needed to provide an answer. He wasn't sure what to say, hesitated, then said that he plays like Bisu. That could be interpreted as Rain respecting Bisu, whose style he is trying to emulate. I mean he had to pick someone and it can't be Snow. Who better then, but Bisu?
There's a difference between that and outright declaring arrogantly and delusionally that his PvZ is on par with Bisu. Because there's no way in hell Rain comes close to Bisu's level as shown by Effort et al., trying to support him gave me the dead feeling inside when I'm up against a C zerg in PvZ. Hence my jokes :D
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Does anyone know where I can find a replay of the first game, or what build order effort used?
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EPT
