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Afreeca Starleague Season 3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZpDsafx.png)
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[ASL3] Ro24 Day 5
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
Twitch TV (Tasteless and Artosis) ASL Youtube Channel with both English and Korean Stream AfreecaTV cast (FlashFTW and EsportsJohn) | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3812 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Stax736
United States119 Posts
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1074 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On April 23 2017 19:30 HaFnium wrote: Stork vs Pusan in 2017.... who could have forseen that... We're lucky and those two are that good haha | ||
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Amanebak
Czech Republic528 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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Amanebak
Czech Republic528 Posts
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Amanebak
Czech Republic528 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
Pusan's army is just more complete and more massive. GG from Stork | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10209 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On April 23 2017 19:50 ZiggyPG wrote: who would have thought pusan and ggaemo would be meeting in the winners match, rather than the losers Certainly not my LB. Also, I'm still trying to get Afreeca to work properly today. Why is it lagging that hard?  | ||
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
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K.H.J
Korea (South)769 Posts
2. Guemchi's practice partner was Rain. | ||
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Amanebak
Czech Republic528 Posts
On April 23 2017 19:55 K.H.J wrote: 1. JD advised strategy to ggaemo. 2. Guemchi's practice partner was Rain. How do you know? I mean it was surely secret before the games, wasn't it. | ||
GTR
51486 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4127 Posts
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:07 GTR wrote: jesus these are worse than doh-sairs backho sairs | ||
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Stax736
United States119 Posts
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Amanebak
Czech Republic528 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4127 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:10 ZiggyPG wrote: ggaemo in first place, lol wait for pusan getting 2nd xD | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
great to see him advance and I hope he will continue to surprise | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10209 Posts
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:10 M2 wrote: zerg in a group of protosses is like a fox in a group of sheeps )Yeah, because sheep perfectly fit into a fox's predator pattern. ;P Actually, protoss were doing quite well against zerg in the past few months, no? Anyways, glad to see ggaemo pulling through. It's obvious that he put a lot of work into this. | ||
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:13 FlaShFTW wrote: corsair control so bad lol i don't think you can call it bad control. Looked more like "no control", a-moved into the mutas / across the map, then went away to do other stuff and got punished by Scourge 2 times. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:16 snow2.0 wrote: i don't think you can call it bad control. Looked more like "no control", a-moved into the mutas / across the map, then went away to do other stuff and got punished by Scourge 2 times. The question is what else could he possibly have been doing? He had one gate! Is making reavers out of one robo that macro intensive? | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4127 Posts
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:23 M2 wrote: If i remember correctly, Pusan was famous in his prime for his good PvP, not sure though Famous is a bit much but PvP was his best MU I think. | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:32 gngfn wrote: According to the pattern established thus far Stork will now lose the next battle to take place nostradamus over here | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10209 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
Why was he so behind? I just came home before the last push from GuemChi. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:39 EsportsJohn wrote: So rough for Stork to go out. Really surprising, but he just didn't look quite on point tonight. Honestly he's looked for a while like his heart isn't really in it. | ||
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:38 PVJ wrote: Oh god Stork Why was he so behind? I just came home before the last push from GuemChi. He lost 2 reavers and his nexus to an early goon push. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10209 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:38 PVJ wrote: Oh god Stork Why was he so behind? I just came home before the last push from GuemChi. 1 gate robo expo vs 3 gate robo = build order loss for the 1 gate robo player. you lose your nexus and fall behind like that. Stork lost the BO, he fought valiantly but the macro advantage from guemchi just killed him. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:39 Miragee wrote: He lost 2 reavers and his nexus to an early goon push. On April 23 2017 20:40 FlaShFTW wrote: 1 gate robo expo vs 3 gate robo = build order loss for the 1 gate robo player. you lose your nexus and fall behind like that. Stork lost the BO, he fought valiantly but the macro advantage from guemchi just killed him. :'((((((((( I'm at the verge of tears. Stork was the kind of player who could pull off important wins even when he was not on top of his practice regime. But from reading these and previous comments it seems like he was really just not there at all today. Interesting enough, that yesterday evening he held against the same 3 gate robo push from Tyson. Seems like he was really off today. Hope to see him back in ASL4 though, even if he focuses on streaming. I'm sure his Korean fans also want to see him do well in tourneys. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:43 BLinD-RawR wrote: if people are shocked by stork's performance then they didn't buy into my power rank. I was hoping for him to pull some "I play WoW but I still kick ass at SC" kind of magic. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:43 BLinD-RawR wrote: if people are shocked by stork's performance then they didn't buy into my power rank. I accepted it but thought that as many times before, the commander will prove the Power Rank wrong and prevail just due to sheer tactical greatness. | ||
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K.H.J
Korea (South)769 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KEbQ7eu.png) It is Stork. He just says 'Sorry for my fans' | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:48 K.H.J wrote: It is Stork. He just says 'Sorry for my fans' Byung goo! I don't even know what to say... 9-kill reaver dies at GuemChi's main mineral line | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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GTR
51486 Posts
a train to pusan. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:48 K.H.J wrote: It is Stork. He just says 'Sorry for my fans' It's okay, it's still always going to be TaekbangLeessang | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:00 Phyanketto wrote: It's okay, it's still always going to be TaekbangLeessang Well, I don't want to live in the past and only finding grace and joy in remembering older times and whether I like it or not in the present it's more like TaekLeeSsang. | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:00 Phyanketto wrote: It's okay, it's still always going to be TaekbangLeessang TaekMangLeessang | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
Yes please | ||
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
When did Guemchi change his name? And what happened to regular Mong? Mong was pretty good a year or two ago. | ||
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aedeph
104 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:13 Miragee wrote: Actually, protoss were doing quite well against zerg in the past few months, no? Anyways, glad to see ggaemo pulling through. It's obvious that he put a lot of work into this. Especially they doing great in ASL3: Shuttle Protoss 1 0 Zerg PURPOSE Shuttle Protoss 0 1 Zerg Soulkey EffOrt Zerg 1 0 Protoss Snow Shine Zerg 1 0 Protoss free Shine Zerg 1 0 Protoss Snow hero Zerg 1 0 Protoss Lazy hero Zerg 1 0 Protoss Rain GuemChi Protoss 0 1 Zerg ggaemo ggaemo Zerg 1 0 Protoss Pusan So, it's basically 1-9, with single win of Shuttle versus some random lucky amateur. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:06 Phyanketto wrote: When did Guemchi change his name? And what happened to regular Mong? Mong was pretty good a year or two ago. Mong has qualified for ro16. | ||
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:06 Phyanketto wrote: When did Guemchi change his name? And what happened to regular Mong? Mong was pretty good a year or two ago. Mong's always been the same. He is a very solid macro player but his early game and wittiness "suck". In the later stages of the tournament he has a disadvantage for sure. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
drep | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10209 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:08 aedeph wrote: Especially they doing great in ASL3: Shuttle Protoss 1 0 Zerg PURPOSE Shuttle Protoss 0 1 Zerg Soulkey EffOrt Zerg 1 0 Protoss Snow Shine Zerg 1 0 Protoss free Shine Zerg 1 0 Protoss Snow hero Zerg 1 0 Protoss Lazy hero Zerg 1 0 Protoss Rain GuemChi Protoss 0 1 Zerg ggaemo ggaemo Zerg 1 0 Protoss Pusan So, it's basically 1-9, with single win of Shuttle versus some random lucky amateur. i mean let's be real here, those protoss are definitely not good at PvZ. Free, Snow, Rain all more known for their PvT, Lazy, Purpose, Shuttle, Pusan all kind of just average, sub-par Protoss. And they're up against EffOrt, Soulkey, hero who are amazing ZvPers. Shine and ggaemo are definitely more wildcard Zergs but Protoss have not really been respecting them as of late. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10209 Posts
KimssangLeessang (two kims = bisu and last both start with kim) | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:15 gngfn wrote: Free was known for his PvZ in his prime. In particular, he was one of the most skilled users of the lategame Protoss deathball. wat? | ||
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aedeph
104 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:11 FlaShFTW wrote: i mean let's be real here, those protoss are definitely not good at PvZ. Free, Snow, Rain all more known for their PvT, Lazy, Purpose, Shuttle, Pusan all kind of just average, sub-par Protoss. And they're up against EffOrt, Soulkey, hero who are amazing ZvPers. Shine and ggaemo are definitely more wildcard Zergs but Protoss have not really been respecting them as of late. Let's be real here, the only good PvZer is Bisu, who lost two latest finals to Effort and Hero, respectively. And free, Rain, Shuttle are top 5 protosses (or around), just like Hero, Soulkey and EffOrt. | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:32 aedeph wrote: Let's be real here, the only good PvZer is Bisu, who lost two latest finals to Effort and Hero, respectively. And free, Rain, Shuttle are top 5 protosses (or around), just like Hero, Soulkey and EffOrt. Agreed. Like there's exactly one guy who's ever been as good at PvZ as Bisu and that's Bisu. And even Bisu always had trouble with hero, Shine, etc. good reply | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:32 aedeph wrote: Let's be real here, the only good PvZer is Bisu, who lost two latest finals to Effort and Hero, respectively. And free, Rain, Shuttle are top 5 protosses (or around), just like Hero, Soulkey and EffOrt. Rofl. They are not. You are clueless if you think free, rain, and shuttle come even close to the likes of Hero, Effort (and Soulkey). | ||
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:42 gngfn wrote: Agreed. Like there's exactly one guy who's ever been as good at PvZ as Bisu and that's Bisu. And even Bisu always had trouble with hero, Shine, etc. good reply Thank you. On a more serious note though, I basically agree with what FlashFTW said. Stork had a pretty good PvZ but that was because he was a monster in each match up. I mean he had an even record with JD. I would also argue that Kal and Movie had decent PvZ if you compare it to their general level of play as well as to other protoss players. Wooki also showed some signs that he might get the hang of PvZ shortly before the KeSPA era was over. I'm talking about the era after the revolution of course. In the end, only Bisu really seemed to have the upper hand in the PvZ match up though. | ||
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aedeph
104 Posts
On April 23 2017 22:05 B-royal wrote: Rofl. They are not. You are clueless if you think free, rain, and shuttle come even close to the likes of Hero, Effort (and Soulkey). Yes, you are right, I'm fool. Soulkey is so much better than Rain, that I should perform seppuku. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
Notable modern players from debut up to just before the league-that-must-not-be-named 1) Bisu = 129 wins - 52 losses (71.27%) (jeezus o.o) 2) Movie = 48 wins - 35 losses (57.83%) 3) Kal = 89 wins - 73 losses (54.94%) 4) Free = 84 wins - 70 losses (54.55%) 5) Stork = 116 wins - 98 losses (54.21%) 6) JangBi = 70 wins - 64 losses (52.24%) 7) Shuttle = 20 wins - 20 losses (50.00%) 8) BeSt = 59 wins - 68 losses (46.46%) | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:01 Phyanketto wrote: With all this PvZ talk, I'm just Hyped Jangbi is coming back. If you can say anything about Jangbi's PvZ it's that it's overhyped. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:04 Miragee wrote: If you can say anything about Jangbi's PvZ it's that it's overhyped. What makes you say that? I remember him being very got at making the exact right unit composition to crush lurker contains and recovering from hydra busts really well. | ||
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:24 Phyanketto wrote: What makes you say that? I remember him being very got at making the exact right unit composition to crush lurker contains and recovering from hydra busts really well. He rarely played vs zerg in both of his OSL wins. The first he had a Bo5 against Soo... In the second he basically lucked himself past Zero. Overall he barely had a 50 % winrate in PvZ during his hey-days (the last couple of KesPA years). | ||
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:29 Miragee wrote: He rarely played vs zerg in both of his OSL wins. The first he had a Bo5 against Soo... In the second he basically lucked himself past Zero. Overall he barely had a 50 % winrate in PvZ during his hey-days (the last couple of KesPA years). How did he luck himself past zero? Go and watch that set and tell me he doesn't have ee han timing. | ||
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 24 2017 04:55 Phyanketto wrote: How did he luck himself past zero? Go and watch that set and tell me he doesn't have ee han timing. ee han timing, lol. You might as well call it a last ditch attempt after being completely screwed. Or short: lucky. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States571 Posts
On April 24 2017 05:05 Miragee wrote: ee han timing, lol. You might as well call it a last ditch attempt after being completely screwed. Or short: lucky. I forgot how perfect storms and good zealot archon micro is luck | ||
prech
United States2948 Posts
 GuemChi to pull out the advance. Looks like the start time for group F got shifted up to 5pm, rather than 7pm KST. Updated it in Calendar and LP ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3GbSdOx.png) | ||
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On April 24 2017 05:05 Miragee wrote: ee han timing, lol. You might as well call it a last ditch attempt after being completely screwed. Or short: lucky. So, maybe that game wasn't a convincing win, but games 1 and 5 were dominating by Jangbi. | ||
TheEmulator
28091 Posts
On April 23 2017 22:42 c3rberUs wrote: Uhh, Free really did have one of the best PvZ. In fact he was the holder of the 4th best PvZ winrate Notable modern players from debut up to just before the league-that-must-not-be-named 1) Bisu = 129 wins - 52 losses (71.27%) (jeezus o.o) 2) Movie = 48 wins - 35 losses (57.83%) 3) Kal = 89 wins - 73 losses (54.94%) 4) Free = 84 wins - 70 losses (54.55%) 5) Stork = 116 wins - 98 losses (54.21%) 6) JangBi = 70 wins - 64 losses (52.24%) 7) Shuttle = 20 wins - 20 losses (50.00%) 8) BeSt = 59 wins - 68 losses (46.46%) Poor Best, only negative winrate on the list | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
Goes to show that people remember endings as much as full stories  . It helps that when Jangbi was on, his play looked spectacular at times. Like a super athletic player in the NBA who isn't very consistent, but when he has good games he tends to make a few plays no one else can. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden307 Posts
It is kinda fun but so weird and unbalanced. Stork just looked bad. I don't know how much of it was bad luck and build order losses but man, as a Stork fan, that was not fun to watch. Cool to see Pusan do reasonably well though. ggeamo did well and guemchi is solid. But meh. | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
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Ubersturmfuhrer
Finland206 Posts
On April 24 2017 15:31 Loccstana wrote: who still remembers this: Everytime I see ggaemo I think of that face lol Stork was disappointingly bad in these games. I don't know if he was just overconfident in his late-game skills or what but seemed to me that he played way too passively and let opponent cut corners to economically overcome him. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10209 Posts
On April 23 2017 21:32 aedeph wrote: Let's be real here, the only good PvZer is Bisu, who lost two latest finals to Effort and Hero, respectively. And free, Rain, Shuttle are top 5 protosses (or around), just like Hero, Soulkey and EffOrt. Yes but just because youre a "top 5 protoss" doesnt mean your matchup against zerg is that much better. Plus the protoss race right now doesnt have many good players and their PvZs all suck. Like great, you can be a damn good PvP and PvT, and as long as your dodge your shitty PvZ matchup you'll be in the top 5. Being top 5 might not be entirely exclusive from a bad PvZ, but it doesnt mean you'll have a good PvZ. as mentioned in the stat drop above by cerb, 54% is nothing to be proud of compared to the top 5 zergs who all have well over 60% ZvP. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
People who want some comparison with older toss legends pre-337 here: Do note that these guys played in an obviously tougher PvZ age. The Three Kings + ZeuS all started playing in an era where zergs swarmed from the qualifiers up from what I've read; they needed to be great PvZers almost by necessity. Nal_rA = 56 wins - 47 losses (54.37%) PuSan = 30 wins - 31 losses (49.18%) Kingdom = 41 wins - 44 losses (48.24%) Reach = 73 wins - 82 losses (47.10%) Anytime = 23 wins - 25 losses (47.92%) ZeuS = 46 wins - 56 losses (45.10%) Garimto and IntoTheRain are too old school for stats. ^_^ edit - nvm, got curious lol Rage = 26 wins - 22 losses (54.17%) DaeZang = 12 wins - 12 losses (50.00%) RainbOw = 43 wins - 45 losses (48.86%) edit 2 - raw stats alone won't tell the full story. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
That was kind of a dark era for PvZ, true, but... protoss players really didn't get PvZ at that time either. Still loved the shit out of Reach's PvZ when it worked, just hit that timing, rally all your gates and micro/macro your heart out. But, they were not considered good PvZ players (not that anyone else aside from Nal_rA and maybe Kingdom were considered good PvZ:ers either). | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
On April 25 2017 00:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: The only one on that list who was consistently good at PvZ was Nal_rA and maybe Kingdom? That was kind of a dark era for PvZ, true, but... protoss players really didn't get PvZ at that time either. Still loved the shit out of Reach's PvZ when it worked, just hit that timing, rally all your gates and micro/macro your heart out. But, they were not considered good PvZ players (not that anyone else aside from Nal_rA and maybe Kingdom were considered good PvZ:ers either). Anytime was really good too. The problem with those stats is that they compare players who peaked and declined but kept playing for years to players who avoided that fate because the professional scene was brutally terminated or simply because they quit. If you go through the end of '08, Anytime won 56% of his PvZs; from that point on he won 38%. Obviously you can do this exercise with many players to cherry-pick a slice of games where they look good, but overall I think it's more representative to look at a player in his prime than to reduce his career to a percentage. Peak ELO is probably the best way to do this, and Anytime comes in 7th for PvZ. (The only old-timer ahead of him is indeed rA, who I would agree was pretty much the best until Bisu.) e: I just noticed that c3rberUs was cutting the stats off before the whole Bisu thing, which pretty much invalidates my entire point. Oh well. (I wish there were a "historical ELO" feature in TLPD...) | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
I honestly just dislike him as a player. Even more now than before. He is out for a reason. He looked bad imo.. | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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YASHSHAKAR
United States75 Posts
Protoss requires soo much technical micro in this matchup that it gets crazy really fast during the macro game. Something tells me that by the end of this tourney we may begin seeing the foundation of new strats from the likes of Bisu and company. We already know terran are in good shape, but given that soo many toss made it to the Ro24, and only 4 made it out so far... Thats saying alot yo. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Stork has great PvT and decent PvP in general but sucks in PvZ. It's also the main reason he made Ro8 last time. Hopefully he starts to play seriously and advance further next time! | ||
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Miragee
8561 Posts
On April 26 2017 03:20 BigFan wrote: yep, Stork looked bad in these games. He had great defense against GuemChi's attack on CB after he lost his nexus but the macro advantage was too big. That dark templar against Pusan killed so many units too. I figured that he'll at least do well against Pusan so the loss there was surprising. Stork has great PvT and decent PvP in general but sucks in PvZ. It's also the main reason he made Ro8 last time. Hopefully he starts to play seriously and advance further next time! He didn't suck back in the day though. | ||
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