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[ASL2] Semifinals: Flash vs Jaedong - Page 61

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 59 60 61 62 63 84 Next
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
January 17 2017 12:14 GMT
#1201
On January 17 2017 21:12 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
GG, sick series!

[image loading]
BW invading Afreeca frontpage :D

Damn, those viewing numbers are sick.
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10569 Posts
January 17 2017 12:14 GMT
#1202
On January 17 2017 21:12 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.


Considering that we would have had a game if lurker aspect finished a few seconds earlier I think this statement is pretty accurate to be honest.

FlaSh still kills at least one egg to run into the base of JD. no way that a good ling surround can happen with marines in that position, and FlaSh's anti-muta micro was on point would have cleaned them up too. There's a reason +1 5rax is the best build against 3 hatch muta for this exact reason for the timing and the amount of marines you have out
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
January 17 2017 12:15 GMT
#1203
On January 17 2017 21:12 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:09 BlackJack wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:05 EatingBomber wrote:
Would I be wrong if I were to say that Jaedong's Mutalisks control was inadequate and failed to stall for enough time? Also, why did Jaedong tech to Hive so quickly (off just 2 gases)? Why not continue making Lurkers/Lings/Mutalisks? The Defiler barely did anything...


Would have been 3 base hive if he could keep an expo alive. That's pretty standard. 2 base lurker/ling/muta gets raped even easier than 2 base defiler. The game was over when Jaedong was unable to secure a 3rd.

Wouldn't teching a little slower allow him to macro more to delay Flash more?

Felt like JD just didn't have enough units on the map to slow Flash down.

if you delay hive then terran doesnt have any reason to move out and can wait for a much stronger army based on your own hive timing

the extra vessels/tanks you accumulate make such a huge difference
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1534 Posts
January 17 2017 12:15 GMT
#1204
On January 17 2017 21:05 thezanursic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:04 FlaShFTW wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:03 Highways wrote:
Shit maps for zerg.

Impossible to hold an exapnsion

how was that impossible? he had late lurkers. thats not the maps fault. jesus you people need to not fault everything on maps

Nooo, uhh you are totally wrong, they should have played on Battle Royal

Flash actually won on that one...
LRM)TechnicS
Profile Joined May 2008
Bulgaria1565 Posts
January 17 2017 12:16 GMT
#1205
On January 17 2017 20:47 chrisolo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 20:45 Kipsate wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:44 chrisolo wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:42 b0lt wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:41 chrisolo wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:39 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So looking at the comments this was an unorthodox cheese? lol


Its not a cheese by definition. It is a timing attack, where you need to do some damage in order to not be behind, but you can also kill someone as you could witness just minutes ago.


No, it's a cheese. Hydras are atrocious vs bio, so if you don't kill them immediately, you die.


They are not in small numbers as you could see. Yes it is a BO which depends on dealing damage, but it is not a do or die. Even if FlaSh hold that, he lost many SCVs and he cannot move out directly, because that many Hydras deal quite well against a small number of Marines.

Jaedong needs to get a lair+lurker upgrade, doesn't have even close to +1 carapace, is still on 2 gas with a limited amount of drones.

He is dead if he doesn't kill him.


He was morphing Lair and it was probably done by the time FlaSh gg'd. FlaSh could not move out immediately and by the time he would be there, I am sure JD would have had Lurkers at his third and at his natural. It is not Do or Die. Yes you are behind, if you do not kill him, but it is not immediately over. Especially not in JDs position (killed many SCVs and had a lot of hydras remaining).


Hydra bust ZvT is a complete all-in. It worked because Flash made a lot of big mistakes and there were 2 depots to be picked as they were part of the wall at the natural.
Enjoy the game
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10569 Posts
January 17 2017 12:16 GMT
#1206
On January 17 2017 21:14 usopsama wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.

The problem is that you watched Tastosis casting brood war.

Huh? I was casting on afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 xD I only tuned in for the translations for the interview at the end. I wouldn't ever watch those two.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
usopsama
Profile Joined April 2008
6502 Posts
January 17 2017 12:16 GMT
#1207
On January 17 2017 21:16 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:14 usopsama wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.

The problem is that you watched Tastosis casting brood war.

I wouldn't ever watch those two.

Oh, my mistake.
greenelve
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany1392 Posts
January 17 2017 12:17 GMT
#1208
tl celebrating?

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
z0r.de for your daily madness /// Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men? The Shadow knows!
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8714 Posts
January 17 2017 12:18 GMT
#1209
On January 17 2017 21:14 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:12 Miragee wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.


Considering that we would have had a game if lurker aspect finished a few seconds earlier I think this statement is pretty accurate to be honest.

FlaSh still kills at least one egg to run into the base of JD. no way that a good ling surround can happen with marines in that position, and FlaSh's anti-muta micro was on point would have cleaned them up too. There's a reason +1 5rax is the best build against 3 hatch muta for this exact reason for the timing and the amount of marines you have out


I know all that, Jaedong had a third hydra at his third though. Also consider that JD canceled his hydra den. That was a greedy/unlucky decision and got punished.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
January 17 2017 12:19 GMT
#1210
I don't think these two are going anywhere anytime soon so this is just the beginning.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4456 Posts
January 17 2017 12:19 GMT
#1211
All games have been uploaded to youtube
https://www.youtube.com/user/TechRomans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10569 Posts
January 17 2017 12:20 GMT
#1212
On January 17 2017 21:18 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:14 FlaShFTW wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:12 Miragee wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.


Considering that we would have had a game if lurker aspect finished a few seconds earlier I think this statement is pretty accurate to be honest.

FlaSh still kills at least one egg to run into the base of JD. no way that a good ling surround can happen with marines in that position, and FlaSh's anti-muta micro was on point would have cleaned them up too. There's a reason +1 5rax is the best build against 3 hatch muta for this exact reason for the timing and the amount of marines you have out


I know all that, Jaedong had a third hydra at his third though. Also consider that JD canceled his hydra den. That was a greedy/unlucky decision and got punished.

dont know for sure if it was hydra den. might have been queens nest.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
January 17 2017 12:20 GMT
#1213
On January 17 2017 21:16 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:14 usopsama wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.

The problem is that you watched Tastosis casting brood war.

Huh? I was casting on afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 xD I only tuned in for the translations for the interview at the end. I wouldn't ever watch those two.

Wait how was it an one sided series? I felt if flash made 1 or 2 more mistakes Jaedong could have easily one an extra game.
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
LRM)TechnicS
Profile Joined May 2008
Bulgaria1565 Posts
January 17 2017 12:20 GMT
#1214
Pretty sad Flash went 5 barracks with 1 scv on gas last game. I expected at least this time more confidence from him.
Enjoy the game
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
January 17 2017 12:20 GMT
#1215
On January 17 2017 21:16 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 20:47 chrisolo wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:45 Kipsate wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:44 chrisolo wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:42 b0lt wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:41 chrisolo wrote:
On January 17 2017 20:39 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So looking at the comments this was an unorthodox cheese? lol


Its not a cheese by definition. It is a timing attack, where you need to do some damage in order to not be behind, but you can also kill someone as you could witness just minutes ago.


No, it's a cheese. Hydras are atrocious vs bio, so if you don't kill them immediately, you die.


They are not in small numbers as you could see. Yes it is a BO which depends on dealing damage, but it is not a do or die. Even if FlaSh hold that, he lost many SCVs and he cannot move out directly, because that many Hydras deal quite well against a small number of Marines.

Jaedong needs to get a lair+lurker upgrade, doesn't have even close to +1 carapace, is still on 2 gas with a limited amount of drones.

He is dead if he doesn't kill him.


He was morphing Lair and it was probably done by the time FlaSh gg'd. FlaSh could not move out immediately and by the time he would be there, I am sure JD would have had Lurkers at his third and at his natural. It is not Do or Die. Yes you are behind, if you do not kill him, but it is not immediately over. Especially not in JDs position (killed many SCVs and had a lot of hydras remaining).


Hydra bust ZvT is a complete all-in. It worked because Flash made a lot of big mistakes and there were 2 depots to be picked as they were part of the wall at the natural.


Yeah, obviously Technics knows better than most of us, but to add to that: as soon as Terran stabilizes against a Hydra bust, it's 2 base vs 2 base. Plus Terran had 5 Rax so Terran will ZOOM past Zerg in economy. Zerg can make a 3rd but it will be hard to hold, especially on Benzene where you'd need 4 Lurkers for the two ramps, plus more Lurkers at your natural. Then you still need to get Scourge to defend Dropships (which is an automatic counter idea any Terran has vs. Lurker), except it's almost impossible to afford that when you weren't pumping Drones during your Hydra all-in.

Every lost unit in ZvT early game that isn't a Zergling is ridiculously expensive. Even Zergling losses are pretty expensive. This is because each lost Zerg unit early game is like losing that unit + one less Drone + all the mining that extra Drone could've done.



usopsama
Profile Joined April 2008
6502 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-17 12:26:17
January 17 2017 12:20 GMT
#1216


I remember this like it was yesterday. Still one of the best openings ever made. Has it really been 10 years? So nostalgic.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10569 Posts
January 17 2017 12:20 GMT
#1217
On January 17 2017 21:20 sabas123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:16 FlaShFTW wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:14 usopsama wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.

The problem is that you watched Tastosis casting brood war.

Huh? I was casting on afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 xD I only tuned in for the translations for the interview at the end. I wouldn't ever watch those two.

Wait how was it an one sided series? I felt if flash made 1 or 2 more mistakes Jaedong could have easily one an extra game.

not series, the last GAME.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Kaewins
Profile Joined April 2013
Bulgaria138 Posts
January 17 2017 12:21 GMT
#1218
On January 17 2017 21:16 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2017 21:14 usopsama wrote:
On January 17 2017 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Tastosis saying FlaSh barely eeked out that win, but he smashed JD. cmon tastosis i know you want to hype it up but dude, it wasn't even close.

The problem is that you watched Tastosis casting brood war.

Huh? I was casting on afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 xD I only tuned in for the translations for the interview at the end. I wouldn't ever watch those two.


Honestly their casting was on spot and people talking like Flash rolled JD are trying to be silly.

Flash barely won, he even got crushed in game 1 and game 5 wasn't as one sided as it looked.

Overall this was epic and not one sided at all. There was sick play from both of them, but Flash was just a little bit more solid than JD.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
January 17 2017 12:21 GMT
#1219
On January 17 2017 21:03 Highways wrote:
Shit maps for zerg.

Impossible to hold an exapnsion


My first post in a couple years to say I missed you, Highways.
Remember Violet.
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 17 2017 12:22 GMT
#1220
On January 17 2017 21:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:
ahhhhhh terran so op -.-

Terran is not OP, Flash is.
User was warned for being hilarious
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