On March 04 2006 10:57 gulii wrote: When he won vs Pusan, PvZ was imba. When he lose vs oov, he suck?
He doesn't even need to beat Pusan for me to say that his ZvP is great.
My point is his ZvT is overrated. His ZvT is good, no doubt, but overrated like hell in this forum. I can hardly believe more people actually voted for July to win than oov in the liquibet.
On March 04 2006 10:31 tfeign wrote: It's just that July is the most overrated ZvT player in the forum. The only reason people are deceived to believe his ZvT is amazing is because he barely etched out a 3-2 win against oov a long ass time ago, and barely etched out a lucky 3-2 win against GF (due to GF's miserable mnm control when he had the game won) a year ago. July has never dominated ZvT. If he won a series against a T, almost all the time it was him barely winning it by one match. In the meantime people seem quick to forget about July getting raped by so many subpar terrans during his run. People seem quick to forget how many times July has been destroyed by higher level terrans during his run (vs Nada IOPS and KT-KTF, vs oov, etc.). One of the reasons why POS wasn't so hot in Proleague was because July couldn't overcome terrans.
The maps were not as bad as all of you are complaining. The ONLY bad map was Cultivation Period. Both RoV and Rush Hour are balanced ZvT maps. RoV is actually a zerg favored map. July lost on all of them.
There's one terran-favored map. One zerg-favored map. One balanced map. That to me looks balanced right there, and if it's not, it's nothing to complain much about.
It's much much more because July's ZvT just does not match up to oov's TvZ. That's a fact.
Savior is hands down the best ZvT right now, and the only one who can beat oov, and the only zerg I've ever seen who can claim he dominates ZvT.
while i agree wthat july's zvt is overrated, you forget that july raped nada 2-0 in KT-KTF. he did, after all, WIN the tournament.
i don't agree with your opinion on the maps though. there was more than 1 terran-favoring map, and that was in 815. also the fact that cultivation period was played twice gives oov a huge advantage, especially because the first game is so psychologically important. you could tell july was mentally broken after being run over so easily the first game. as much of a champion as he is, i can imagine it'd be hard to keep a positive attitude being down 0-1 and having 815 and cultivation period again later.
this might be the fanboy in me speaking, but i believe gorush's zvt was almost as dominant as savior's during his run. he beat nada in a very important series, something i dont think a zerg has ever done to an in-form nada throughout all of starcraft history.
I didn't mean to write KT-KTF. I meant Snickers League where Nada raped July again. Typo.
I know that 815 is not a great map for ZvT, but they never even got to play on this map. The maps that they played on were Cultivation Period, RoV, and Rush Hour. Out of these 3 maps, one was terran favored, one was zerg favored, and one was pretty much balanced.
The mind games may have played a part in it, but it's not just only being 0-3'ed by oov that makes me think July is overrated in ZvT (in this forum). It's an accumulation of many over the past year and the fact more people believed July would win than oov would as apparent in the liquibet.
As for Gorush, at his peak Gorush's ZvT is about as good as July's ZvT at his peak imo, maybe slightly better or worse depending on how you judge importance of certain series. I don't think he's at Savior's level yet. What zerg in the world can 7-0 oov in important games? He just beat Nada too today in MBC Mini.
I just went by what I read in the live report which did first say the game was gonna be played on Rush Hour. Mistake was later corrected and I didn't catch it.
But considering Rush Hour is oov's best map and he is 7-0 on it in Proleague I don't think July would have won on it if the series continued.
i agree that gorush's zvt wasn't up to saviors level, but during his run his zvt looked near invincible. while xellos isn't as much of a monster as oov is, gorush did beat him in two bo3's on the way to winning YATGK.
savior's zvt is amazing, but the only problem i could see with it is that so far hes only seemed to play with 1 build, and while its proven very effective so far, i'm not sure what'll happen to him once terrans find the counter to his play. who knows though, maybe he has many other builds he hasn't shown yet.
i was also surprised at how many people voted for july over oov. i think it might've been more to do with fanboyism though.
On March 04 2006 12:32 tfeign wrote: I just went by what I read in the live report which did first say the game was gonna be played on Rush Hour. Mistake was later corrected and I didn't catch it.
But considering Rush Hour is oov's best map and he is 7-0 on it in Proleague I don't think July would have won on it if the series continued.
i think july would be the heavy underdog with any map set, but i just think that the maps played more of a role than they should've, although you could argue july had a nice path to the finals playing only protosses on z>p maps.
Now we got people doubing July's ZvT.. lol -_-;; July is a very different kind of player than GoRush. It's hard to say which is better, but I don't think you can say his ZvT isn't as strong. Different styles, different ways of winning.
Besides, Savior, there is no other real contention for best ZvT right now against July. Oh man the next OSL woulda been perfect is Rock was replaced by Reach, Iris by Boxer, Zergman with Jju, and... yeah...
As long as someone beats Oov for Yellow, it's his OSL! I believe storm zerg will rise from ashes one last time and lay down one last smackdown and put him finally back on top where he belongs... -_-;; Oh man I miss that sucker.
On March 04 2006 10:57 gulii wrote: When he won vs Pusan, PvZ was imba. When he lose vs oov, he suck?
He doesn't even need to beat Pusan for me to say that his ZvP is great.
My point is his ZvT is overrated. His ZvT is good, no doubt, but overrated like hell in this forum. I can hardly believe more people actually voted for July to win than oov in the liquibet.
I don't think it's overrated man. July was raped by maps before he started here. It's hard to play a series like that knowing you're going to have to 3-0 the guy on the maps where winning is possible. -_-
His lack luster performance in the 2nd and 3rd games can be attributed to that I think.
...oh yeah, and Oov is a machine. Something we're forgetting there.
On March 04 2006 04:33 Silent_Marine wrote: oh my ;; Iloveoov connected to Golden Mouse ;; someone stop him ( Anytime ? ) , let boxer get Golden Mouse Cant wait to watch VOD ;;
please... anytime is the most overrated protoss since zeus --;; it will be pusan or stork that stops oov... probably pusan
Come on! Game 2 and 3 were cool. He suicided way too much on RoV, but that's just the way July plays, and it sure made for an exciting span of ~2 minutes, hehe