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[OSL] Ro8 Day 2 - Page 126

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Holy Check
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Romania155 Posts
August 28 2011 18:37 GMT
#2501
We needed this breath of fresh air. Jangbi coming back out of nowhere after all this time is such a Cinderella story. Hopes he gets to win the gold. He deserves it.
pvzvt
Profile Joined October 2009
Israel2097 Posts
August 28 2011 18:41 GMT
#2502
years of picking underdogs i like finally payed off
yeah !!! i picked janby in the liquid bet
i say we dust off and nuke it from orbit
Shurayuki
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2665 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-28 23:24:07
August 28 2011 22:44 GMT
#2503
+ Show Spoiler [told ya] +
[image loading]


yes yes yes, how did this totally pass me by!!11oneoneeleven

all of my boys delivering (donmai captain, you'll play against fantasy the next starleague again either way ;D) and the cyclops won too

now i'll have to sift through 120 pages to find out what happened in the first (aka second) soo game...
give ma soo boi his badge already (>*v*)<~~~

edit: oookayyy~ i'll just pretend i didn't see that haha, to think i even championed the manners of the bw section, way to spite me boys ;P
alsoO leave kespa alone,+ Show Spoiler [ she's a very pretty girl <3] +
[image loading]
なまいきになんなよ~ Don't be too stakka~ ☆ SKT Harlequin ☆ n.Die_soO Hoppin You ♪ 愛 am BeSt ♪ ワイフ♥小早川りんこ
catabowl
Profile Joined November 2009
United States815 Posts
August 28 2011 23:17 GMT
#2504
If Fantasy wins this OSL, what will that do for his legacy? 2 straight OSL titles and Still unbeaten in the Proleague Finals. What if he wins the OSL and MSL? So much to think about it!

Jung! Myung! HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
Jung! Myung! Hoooooooooooooooooon! #TeamPolt
Renkaoru
Profile Joined October 2010
390 Posts
August 28 2011 23:31 GMT
#2505
I suddenly had this idea that SKT Coach Park had a hand in arranging Flash's defeat by JangBi when I saw him with Fantasy backstage during the 2nd Group D match. Thinking about it gives me the chills.
God is in His heaven. All is right with the world.
KamMoye
Profile Joined December 2010
United States721 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 04:29:34
August 29 2011 04:28 GMT
#2506
On August 29 2011 08:17 catabowl wrote:
If Fantasy wins this OSL, what will that do for his legacy?


I think, if that happened, he'll be remembered as a better player than he is.

Humans are results-oriented. It's easy to lose sight of that in a sport like SC, where it's absurdly rare to find anyone win even 70% of their games.

And the MSL/OSL format doesn't always contribute to those luck-sack tendencies that are simply embedded into the game. Maps, for example, may make the tournament scene more interesting, but it's tough to argue they improve the accuracy of results.

Just look at Bisu's case right now: he's unequivocally the second-best player in the world right now ("right now" meaning since October of last year, which is the SC equivalent of the beginning of the year), yet people place undue weight towards MSL/OSL and are hard-pressed to admit as such.
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 05:38:34
August 29 2011 05:37 GMT
#2507
On August 29 2011 13:28 KamMoye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2011 08:17 catabowl wrote:
If Fantasy wins this OSL, what will that do for his legacy?


I think, if that happened, he'll be remembered as a better player than he is.

Humans are results-oriented. It's easy to lose sight of that in a sport like SC, where it's absurdly rare to find anyone win even 70% of their games.

And the MSL/OSL format doesn't always contribute to those luck-sack tendencies that are simply embedded into the game. Maps, for example, may make the tournament scene more interesting, but it's tough to argue they improve the accuracy of results.

Just look at Bisu's case right now: he's unequivocally the second-best player in the world right now ("right now" meaning since October of last year, which is the SC equivalent of the beginning of the year), yet people place undue weight towards MSL/OSL and are hard-pressed to admit as such.


Bisu isn't in any way the unequivocally second-best player in the world right now. If you are using extremely primitive statistics (and also not watching games) this might be the case, but any sort of advanced analysis throws this statement in the trash.

To even take a ridiculously simple example without even diving into advanced statistics:

Player A goes 10-1 in Proleague. In the meantime, he goes 1-2 in the opening round of a tournament and is eliminated.
Final record: 11-3 Win %: 0.7857142857142857

Player B goes 10-1 in Proleague. In the meantime, he goes 2-1 in the opening round of a tournament, then 3-2, 3-1, before losing 0-3 and being eliminated.
Final record: 16-7 Win %: 0.6956521739130435

Clearly, player B is playing more successfully than player A. Furthermore, he is playing, on average, higher-skill opponents than player A, because he is regularly matched against opponents who are also winning their games and proving "successful". Nevertheless, player A will have a higher ELO and Kespa ranking, in many cases, because he is not losing as many games! Furthermore, his win percentage is significantly higher, due to playing fewer sets against high-tier opponents.

From a practical standpoint, Player A cannot lose games he never played. Nonetheless, the player who arrives at that point (a late round of a league) and loses those games is displaying a higher degree of competence than the player who never makes it past their first opponent. This essentially represents "soft losses" for Player A, who, over the course of a tournament, may be considered to be defeated by anyone who places above him, even if not conventionally losing.


Bisu is effectively going 20-3 in proleague, and then falling 0-20 in tournaments because he cannot make it past the first round. Why this is the case may be hard to ascertain, but Bisu should not even be in the running for "second-best player for a year now", much less a lock, because he can't even make it past the "top 32/36" rounds of a tournament and so doesn't even have the opportunity to lose as many games as the players who trounce him in overall performance.
the last wcs commissioner
hacklebeast
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5090 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 05:52:14
August 29 2011 05:48 GMT
#2508
On August 29 2011 13:28 KamMoye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2011 08:17 catabowl wrote:
If Fantasy wins this OSL, what will that do for his legacy?


I think, if that happened, he'll be remembered as a better player than he is.

Humans are results-oriented. It's easy to lose sight of that in a sport like SC, where it's absurdly rare to find anyone win even 70% of their games.

And the MSL/OSL format doesn't always contribute to those luck-sack tendencies that are simply embedded into the game. Maps, for example, may make the tournament scene more interesting, but it's tough to argue they improve the accuracy of results.

Just look at Bisu's case right now: he's unequivocally the second-best player in the world right now ("right now" meaning since October of last year, which is the SC equivalent of the beginning of the year), yet people place undue weight towards MSL/OSL and are hard-pressed to admit as such.

He'll get a lot of credit, and it's all deserved. He has posted better results and had more influence than almost everyone else with 1 title, especially if we focus on more current players. Effort, calm, luxury, forgg, mind, casy, ggplay all don't stack up to what he's done. He will be seen as the 5th, maybe 4th, best player since savior's heyday, which is exactly where he should be: not as good as the 3+ gold bisu, JD, and flash, very close to stork, and better than the rest.

Edit: lol at above, your funny
Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
August 29 2011 12:58 GMT
#2509
Jangbi's storms in set 2:

http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=301448&page=1
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
August 29 2011 13:08 GMT
#2510
Flashes loss has turned my world upside down. And now im getting nauseus
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
r7tran
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada2 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 13:22:43
August 29 2011 13:20 GMT
#2511
if bisu isn't the second best player in the world right now, i'd like an argument for anyone who can even remotely be considered for that position.
80% proleague win-rate doesn't lie! KIM TAEK YONG!!! nor does #1 ELO

AWWWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHHH BISU!
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
August 29 2011 13:36 GMT
#2512
On August 29 2011 21:58 Ryo wrote:
Jangbi's storms in set 2:

http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=301448&page=1

Almost as epic as vs Nada.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
kamikami
Profile Joined November 2010
France1057 Posts
August 29 2011 14:13 GMT
#2513
On August 29 2011 07:44 Shurayuki wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [told ya] +
[image loading]


yes yes yes, how did this totally pass me by!!11oneoneeleven



I got it exactly right like you too, it's easy, just vote for whoever you want to win and don't care about the results lol.

The fake 3rd of Jangbi is really wonderful, Flash completely read him wrong. But it cannot be applied to low level play because low level terran probably won't scout the fake third and even if it's scouted they won't react at all T_T.
Khassar de Templari
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 29 2011 14:21 GMT
#2514
On August 29 2011 23:13 kamikami wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2011 07:44 Shurayuki wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [told ya] +
[image loading]


yes yes yes, how did this totally pass me by!!11oneoneeleven



I got it exactly right like you too, it's easy, just vote for whoever you want to win and don't care about the results lol.

The fake 3rd of Jangbi is really wonderful, Flash completely read him wrong. But it cannot be applied to low level play because low level terran probably won't scout the fake third and even if it's scouted they won't react at all T_T.

r u implying that a D level terran can tear JB a new a one if Flash and the D switched playing?
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
DejaVu119
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States131 Posts
August 29 2011 14:40 GMT
#2515
On August 29 2011 21:58 Ryo wrote:
Jangbi's storms in set 2:

http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=301448&page=1


i like this page because it just restarts when the clip is over. i just hear the storms over and over again
kamikami
Profile Joined November 2010
France1057 Posts
August 29 2011 15:24 GMT
#2516
On August 29 2011 23:21 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2011 23:13 kamikami wrote:
On August 29 2011 07:44 Shurayuki wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [told ya] +
[image loading]


yes yes yes, how did this totally pass me by!!11oneoneeleven



I got it exactly right like you too, it's easy, just vote for whoever you want to win and don't care about the results lol.

The fake 3rd of Jangbi is really wonderful, Flash completely read him wrong. But it cannot be applied to low level play because low level terran probably won't scout the fake third and even if it's scouted they won't react at all T_T.

r u implying that a D level terran can tear JB a new a one if Flash and the D switched playing?


No, I was saying that it will be difficult to play Jangbi's mind game strategy (as a D protoss) in low level.
Khassar de Templari
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
August 29 2011 15:35 GMT
#2517
On August 29 2011 03:41 pvzvt wrote:
years of picking underdogs i like finally payed off
yeah !!! i picked janby in the liquid bet


Fans like you are the people that inspires underdogs.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 29 2011 15:36 GMT
#2518
On August 30 2011 00:35 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2011 03:41 pvzvt wrote:
years of picking underdogs i like finally payed off
yeah !!! i picked janby in the liquid bet


Fans like you are the people that inspires underdogs.


Fans like him are the people that inspires Cinderella stories!
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
August 29 2011 15:39 GMT
#2519
On August 29 2011 22:20 r7tran wrote:
if bisu isn't the second best player in the world right now, i'd like an argument for anyone who can even remotely be considered for that position.
80% proleague win-rate doesn't lie! KIM TAEK YONG!!! nor does #1 ELO

AWWWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHHH BISU!


PL where he's on the deepest team and can get sent out on his favoured matchup on whatever map is best for him. The supposed second best player is not considered good enough to play the best player in the PL finals, whereas BeSt who's ranked somewhere like 44th is trusted over him.

Notice how little ZvP Jaedong ever plays in PL compared to how much PvZ Bisu get's to play. JD is the only ace and constantly planned against, and rarely gets to play average P players because other teams simply don't send them out against him otherwise i'm fairly sure it would be his strongest matchup just as it is for most Zergs. Meanwhile Bisu is on a versatile team that can plan to have him face average Zergs as much as possible.

He's obviously a good player. But he hasn't won a BO3 since 2009. It's completely inexcusable.
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 15:41:38
August 29 2011 15:39 GMT
#2520
On August 30 2011 00:36 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2011 00:35 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On August 29 2011 03:41 pvzvt wrote:
years of picking underdogs i like finally payed off
yeah !!! i picked janby in the liquid bet


Fans like you are the people that inspires underdogs.


Fans like him are the people that inspires Cinderella stories!


Don't be an ass with sarcastic remarks. I guess Jangbi beating flash 2-0 must have been a Cinderella story to you, if that's what your implying. I stated my comment because the guy didn't just "hop on the bandwagon" like a lot of people on TL do whenever somebody proves an upset.
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