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On August 26 2011 23:12 Vuk_91 wrote:
Can`t believe how people who are probably 10x better than me in BW don`t understand some things: I remember last MSL everyone was "Hydra will make Flash a lot of of trouble" and "Zero will win against flash,at least it will be 3-2 for flash" and I was laughing so hard thinking that together they will take 1 game against Flash,but they didn`t even take that one. You all need to understand,it`s one thing to play solid ZvT in proleague,to beat good terrans like Bogus,Sea or Mind. But it`s whole different thing to beat guys like Flash or Fantasy in Bo5. Now listen,Hydra won`t take more than one game against Fantasy! You heard it first here.
Uhh that KT rookie already almost killed Fantasy, and he was using a stupid ling muta all in. With Hydra's 450 average apm and superior mechanics, he wont have any trouble.
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 Fantasy's TvZ:
All Leagues: Lifetime 57% (79-59); Season 59% (24-17); 2011 59% (19-13); Last 10 5-5
Starleagues: Lifetime 56% (31-24); All OSL 59% (23-16); Jin Air 3-0
 Hydra's ZvT:
All Leagues: Lifetime 55% (23-19); Season 53% (16-14); 2011 48% (12-13); Last 10 6-4
Starleages: Lifetime 47% (8-9); All OSL 29% (2-5); Jin Air 0-1
Fantasy vs Hydra
Lifetime Fantasy 2-1 Hydra, OSL Fantasy 1-0 Hydra
Advantage Fantasy. Maybe we don't get a ZvZ final after all?
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Reading a Chinese board and someone brought up a good point. Apparently Jangbi's 3rd on Pathfinder was oddly placed, so when Flash scanned Jangbi's "natural 3rd" and found no expansion, he must've assumed Jangbi was going for a 2-base break or harass. It would explain why he was in full turtle mode with his 3rd up, since he believed Jangbi was just starting his 3rd when that was actually Jangbi's 4th. If terran and protoss are on equal bases, then Flash's turtling is actually the winning play. Keep in mind we're looking from the observer's POV. Flash I believe never scanned Jangbi's 4th quick enough, and that ninja expansion which rolled into quick 5th, 6th, and mass gateways at the other main. Giving Jangbi enough to simply outmacro Flash.
If that's truly the case, then Flash actually made fatal reads on Jangbi in both the games tonight. He guessed 2-base break when Jangbi was expanding like a madman. And he guessed expansion when Jangbi went for the break. People blaming Flash's wrists should be wondering what the hell happened to his maphack instead.
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On August 26 2011 23:12 Vuk_91 wrote:
Can`t believe how people who are probably 10x better than me in BW don`t understand some things: I remember last MSL everyone was "Hydra will make Flash a lot of of trouble" and "Zero will win against flash,at least it will be 3-2 for flash" and I was laughing so hard thinking that together they will take 1 game against Flash,but they didn`t even take that one. You all need to understand,it`s one thing to play solid ZvT in proleague,to beat good terrans like Bogus,Sea or Mind. But it`s whole different thing to beat guys like Flash or Fantasy in Bo5. Now listen,Hydra won`t take more than one game against Fantasy! You heard it first here.
I'd give him 2 games at the most. But yeah, Fantasy will make it to the finals to defend his title.
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what the hell happened in the osl? i have games to watch and things to think about. o.O
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hope fanta wins, not a big fan of hydra at all
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On August 26 2011 23:14 VGhost wrote:Fantasy's TvZ: All Leagues: Lifetime 57% (79-59); Season 59% (24-17); 2011 59% (19-13); Last 10 5-5 Starleagues: Lifetime 56% (31-24); All OSL 59% (23-16); Jin Air 3-0 Hydra's ZvT: All Leagues: Lifetime 55% (23-19); Season 53% (16-14); 2011 48% (12-13); Last 10 6-4 Starleages: Lifetime 47% (8-9); All OSL 29% (2-5); Jin Air 0-1 Advantage Fantasy. Maybe we don't get a ZvZ final after all?
You need to take into account that fantasy played many games against Jaedong in starleagues
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On August 26 2011 23:15 baubo wrote:
Reading a Chinese board and someone brought up a good point. Apparently Jangbi's 3rd on Pathfinder was oddly placed, so when Flash scanned Jangbi's "natural 3rd" and found no expansion, he must've assumed Jangbi was going for a 2-base break or harass. It would explain why he was in full turtle mode with his 3rd up, since he believed Jangbi was just starting his 3rd when that was actually Jangbi's 4th. If terran and protoss are on equal bases, then Flash's turtling is actually the winning play. Since it effectively gave Jangbi a ninja expansion which rolled into mass gateways at the other main. Giving Jangbi enough to simply outmacro Flash.
If that's truly the case, then Flash actually made fatal reads on Jangbi in both the games tonight. He guessed 2-base break when Jangbi was expanding like a madman. And he guessed expansion when Jangbi went for the break. People blaming Flash's wrists should be wondering what the hell happened to his maphack instead.
I don`t know if that`s the case but I know I saw a scan on that 12 o clock expo,on top of the main so it might be the truth.
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Jangbang I believe!!
Jangbi only has really good vs P players left but he got this.
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i thought iloveOOv already leaving SKT1?without oov,this must be hard against Hydra...
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On August 26 2011 23:10 Torenhire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 23:07 letian wrote:On August 26 2011 23:04 Torenhire wrote:On August 26 2011 23:01 Holgerius wrote:On August 26 2011 22:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On August 26 2011 22:58 gngfn wrote:On August 26 2011 22:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On August 26 2011 22:55 Torenhire wrote:Soo is 63% vP right now, hope Jangbi has some PvZ stuff put together by then.. jangbi is a progamer and formerly one of the top protoss in the world i think he'll figure it out maybe if he's in a pinch he'll come ask the tl broodwar forum for some advice and expert analysis Worked out real well in Lost Saga, didn't it? oh i forgot he got silver in a msl finals to a zerg much better than soo yeah there's no way he could ever win or improve his pvz or come up with a build that exploits soo's playstyle or anything like that he didn't win the starleague more evidence for jangbi being bad only bad players don't win MSLs What's up with all your extremely sarcastic posts? Samsung Khan flag. Also, Soo actually eliminated Jangbi from this OSL's preliminaries, beat him 2-0. Jangbi is only here because he advanced via wildcard. That's the only time they've played head to head, but Soo is already a big time ZvP sniper, and I haven't seen anything ground-breaking out of Jangbi's PvZ as of late. yes, Soo 's "sniping" on a ZvP map in the Pl finals does give him these 60% of a win. Would you please give some credit. I was taking credit away from Jangbi? he just beat Flash, how could I take credit away? Plus PvZ is an entirely different matchup than PvT, so just because he beat Flash doesn't mean he'll destroy Soo. tbh I'd rather have Jangbi win out of the remaining players, I dunno why everyone seems to think I've already counted him as "losing" vs Soo. I'm simply saying that Soo is really good ZvP and Jangbi is gonna have to conjure up something awesome or else it could be bad. Also he lost to Stats in PL finals...I dunno what you're even talking about. Not to mention one game doesn't give you a 63% winrate. Lol.
Because its Jangbi, and Soo is some zerg, actually I would give some credit to Soo only because he is from SKT1, and they know how to prepare for the games. The skill difference is in favor of Jangbi, I don't think anybody doubts that. The slumps and doubtful performances are all phycology. I saw early Jangbi games and know what he can do, when he can. Soo shouldn't have been in ro4 at all in the first place, this lucky zerg.
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On August 26 2011 23:16 villageidiot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 23:14 VGhost wrote:Fantasy's TvZ: All Leagues: Lifetime 57% (79-59); Season 59% (24-17); 2011 59% (19-13); Last 10 5-5 Starleagues: Lifetime 56% (31-24); All OSL 59% (23-16); Jin Air 3-0 Hydra's ZvT: All Leagues: Lifetime 55% (23-19); Season 53% (16-14); 2011 48% (12-13); Last 10 6-4 Starleages: Lifetime 47% (8-9); All OSL 29% (2-5); Jin Air 0-1 Advantage Fantasy. Maybe we don't get a ZvZ final after all? You need to take into account that fantasy played many games against Jaedong in starleagues
also that less important than overall records is the overall quality of a player, particularly in Bo5s
you can't guess games on math like this, you'd do terribly in something like liquibet
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On August 26 2011 23:15 baubo wrote:
If that's truly the case, then Flash actually made fatal reads on Jangbi in both the games tonight. He guessed 2-base break when Jangbi was expanding like a madman. And he guessed expansion when Jangbi went for the break. People blaming Flash's wrists should be wondering what the hell happened to his maphack instead.
Even Flash has a bad day sometimes.
It clearly wasn't his wrists.
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On August 26 2011 23:16 villageidiot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 23:14 VGhost wrote:Fantasy's TvZ: All Leagues: Lifetime 57% (79-59); Season 59% (24-17); 2011 59% (19-13); Last 10 5-5 Starleagues: Lifetime 56% (31-24); All OSL 59% (23-16); Jin Air 3-0 Hydra's ZvT: All Leagues: Lifetime 55% (23-19); Season 53% (16-14); 2011 48% (12-13); Last 10 6-4 Starleages: Lifetime 47% (8-9); All OSL 29% (2-5); Jin Air 0-1 Advantage Fantasy. Maybe we don't get a ZvZ final after all? You need to take into account that fantasy played many games against Jaedong in starleagues
Also that half of hydra's wins this year and more than half of all his starleauge wins came against the same, not particularly good, player.
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actually it would be interesting if for an entire season someone did every liquibet by comparing each players record and voting for the one who has the better statistics
if one user did it by overall record
if one user did it by last 50 games
and one user does it by last 10 games
in a tie voting for the player with the highest overall win %
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My heart is broken. Jangbi? Jangbi?
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On August 26 2011 23:16 villageidiot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 23:14 VGhost wrote:Fantasy's TvZ: All Leagues: Lifetime 57% (79-59); Season 59% (24-17); 2011 59% (19-13); Last 10 5-5 Starleagues: Lifetime 56% (31-24); All OSL 59% (23-16); Jin Air 3-0 Hydra's ZvT: All Leagues: Lifetime 55% (23-19); Season 53% (16-14); 2011 48% (12-13); Last 10 6-4 Starleages: Lifetime 47% (8-9); All OSL 29% (2-5); Jin Air 0-1 Advantage Fantasy. Maybe we don't get a ZvZ final after all? You need to take into account that fantasy played many games against Jaedong in starleagues
Why? These are overviews: I don't buy the "but results against better players don't count" thing.
Anyway, if I did note it that would just make fantasy look better. fantasy is 6-11 vs Jaedong lifetime, 3-6 in OSL play. Yeah, he hasn't beat Jaedong in 2 years, but that has little relevance to the matchup vs Hydra.
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I still remember Fantasy vs Hydra game on Pathfinder last OSL where he dropped 2 control groups of hydras into mine field, lol.
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i never want to bet on fantasy. hydra seems the more reliable player to me. fantasy is not very versatile and has a tendency to do the stupidest things...he's just a very strange player. talented, but strange.
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EPT
