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On April 07 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 02:05 renzy wrote:
There are many snipable Flash maps. I wouldn't even be surprised if SKT sends a toss on the first map on a gamble that KT will send Flash first. Then, theres Icarus on set 3, which a zerg like HYUUKKKK can beat Flash AGAINNNN, and theres set 5 Aztec, and Set 6 as well as 7 La Mancha and EoTS are both fairly good PvT maps. KT coach would never send Flash on Bloody Ridge. This map is almost impossible to TvP and SKT has two amazing toss. That would be more than retarded.
To be honest, I think Aztec is even more retarded to TvP on. When Carriers get into their ideal positions, you can absolutely feel the gayness of carriers, being able to attack two crucial places within a time frame of like...2 seconds.
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On April 07 2011 07:01 renzy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 07 2011 02:05 renzy wrote:
There are many snipable Flash maps. I wouldn't even be surprised if SKT sends a toss on the first map on a gamble that KT will send Flash first. Then, theres Icarus on set 3, which a zerg like HYUUKKKK can beat Flash AGAINNNN, and theres set 5 Aztec, and Set 6 as well as 7 La Mancha and EoTS are both fairly good PvT maps. KT coach would never send Flash on Bloody Ridge. This map is almost impossible to TvP and SKT has two amazing toss. That would be more than retarded. To be honest, I think Aztec is even more retarded to TvP on. When Carriers get into their ideal positions, you can absolutely feel the gayness of carriers, being able to attack two crucial places within a time frame of like...2 seconds.
You guys needs to stop talking about Flash or Terran in general. KT's line up is:
Yellow
Hoejja
Action
Crazy-Hydra
since SKT only practices for Flash AND Stats.
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On April 07 2011 07:14 Monkeyshark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 07:01 renzy wrote:On April 07 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 07 2011 02:05 renzy wrote:
There are many snipable Flash maps. I wouldn't even be surprised if SKT sends a toss on the first map on a gamble that KT will send Flash first. Then, theres Icarus on set 3, which a zerg like HYUUKKKK can beat Flash AGAINNNN, and theres set 5 Aztec, and Set 6 as well as 7 La Mancha and EoTS are both fairly good PvT maps. KT coach would never send Flash on Bloody Ridge. This map is almost impossible to TvP and SKT has two amazing toss. That would be more than retarded. To be honest, I think Aztec is even more retarded to TvP on. When Carriers get into their ideal positions, you can absolutely feel the gayness of carriers, being able to attack two crucial places within a time frame of like...2 seconds. You guys needs to stop talking about Flash or Terran in general. KT's line up is: Yellow Hoejja Action Crazy-Hydra since SKT only practices for Flash AND Stats.
So SKT just has to send out Bisu for a AK?
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On April 07 2011 07:14 Monkeyshark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 07:01 renzy wrote:On April 07 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 07 2011 02:05 renzy wrote:
There are many snipable Flash maps. I wouldn't even be surprised if SKT sends a toss on the first map on a gamble that KT will send Flash first. Then, theres Icarus on set 3, which a zerg like HYUUKKKK can beat Flash AGAINNNN, and theres set 5 Aztec, and Set 6 as well as 7 La Mancha and EoTS are both fairly good PvT maps. KT coach would never send Flash on Bloody Ridge. This map is almost impossible to TvP and SKT has two amazing toss. That would be more than retarded. To be honest, I think Aztec is even more retarded to TvP on. When Carriers get into their ideal positions, you can absolutely feel the gayness of carriers, being able to attack two crucial places within a time frame of like...2 seconds. You guys needs to stop talking about Flash or Terran in general. KT's line up is: Hoejja YellowAction Crazy-Hydra since SKT only practices for Flash AND Stats.
Here, let me fix the lineup for you.
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On April 07 2011 07:48 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 07:14 Monkeyshark wrote:On April 07 2011 07:01 renzy wrote:On April 07 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 07 2011 02:05 renzy wrote:
There are many snipable Flash maps. I wouldn't even be surprised if SKT sends a toss on the first map on a gamble that KT will send Flash first. Then, theres Icarus on set 3, which a zerg like HYUUKKKK can beat Flash AGAINNNN, and theres set 5 Aztec, and Set 6 as well as 7 La Mancha and EoTS are both fairly good PvT maps. KT coach would never send Flash on Bloody Ridge. This map is almost impossible to TvP and SKT has two amazing toss. That would be more than retarded. To be honest, I think Aztec is even more retarded to TvP on. When Carriers get into their ideal positions, you can absolutely feel the gayness of carriers, being able to attack two crucial places within a time frame of like...2 seconds. You guys needs to stop talking about Flash or Terran in general. KT's line up is: Hoejja YellowAction Crazy-Hydra since SKT only practices for Flash AND Stats. Here, let me fix the lineup for you.
but then YellOw won't get to play  fair to give him a shot before HoeJJa allkills.
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On April 07 2011 07:01 renzy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On April 07 2011 02:05 renzy wrote:
There are many snipable Flash maps. I wouldn't even be surprised if SKT sends a toss on the first map on a gamble that KT will send Flash first. Then, theres Icarus on set 3, which a zerg like HYUUKKKK can beat Flash AGAINNNN, and theres set 5 Aztec, and Set 6 as well as 7 La Mancha and EoTS are both fairly good PvT maps. KT coach would never send Flash on Bloody Ridge. This map is almost impossible to TvP and SKT has two amazing toss. That would be more than retarded. To be honest, I think Aztec is even more retarded to TvP on. When Carriers get into their ideal positions, you can absolutely feel the gayness of carriers, being able to attack two crucial places within a time frame of like...2 seconds.
Well, Aztec is 5/5 in TvP in this Winner League. No really good terran lost on it except Hiya and result have been very standart so far (best player always won): here are the results
Now Bloody Ridge is 4/11 with losses from Baby, Fantasy, FBH, and TWO losses each for Flash and Sea. In fact the only protosses who have managed to lose on it are Snow (against Flash), Violet (already ill most probably) Grape and Dear. Here we go
So in terms of imbalance, Bloody Ridge has been wayyyy more problematic than Aztec. Flash is also probably good enough not to let his opponent go carrier if he really doesn't want it to happen.
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10387 Posts
Both maps are retarded to TvP on regardless, so I think it's safe to say either Flash will be saved as a final boss or try to all kill between the two retarded TvP maps
also why isnt it Friday yet
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Why are you taking only WL results? It's a 31% winrate for terrans if you just include "standard" leagues. It's the biggest TvP graveyard since Katrina.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
Just voted for SKT. DAMN that got me all pumped up!!!!!
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oh my gad plz come faster
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I wish Protoss Plains wasn't removed from the map pool. =.=
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On April 07 2011 08:14 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Why are you taking only WL results? It's a 31% winrate for terrans if you just include "standard" leagues. It's the biggest TvP graveyard since Katrina.
"Standard leagues" overall TvP:
6-13 for Bloody Ridge (31.6%)
7-15 for Aztec (31.8%)
Basically, both maps suck for TvP. Flash has lost on both maps (1-2 on Bloody Ridge, 0-1 on Aztec). Bisu could possibly win... or BeSt or By.Sun specifically prepped could possibly snipe him on either map.
I'd say KT would be insane to send Flash first, especially since TvZ on Bloody Ridge is awful as well (3-8) while Aztec is playable (14-17, Flash is 1-0 although admittedly over Modesty).
Conclusion: I think we're looking at Stats on Bloody Ridge.
Some Further Analysis
If he loses then it could be Flash on Fortress to get as many kills as possible. Assuming Flash wins he'd likely get a second win over some Zerg on Icarus, and then Flash vs fantasy on Circuit Breaker. If fantasy wins, I have no idea... probably CH on Aztec (but possibly Reach/Hoejja) and if fantasy's still going, Action but it's probably game. If CH wins, we get CH vs Bisu which should be sweet, and whoever loses that game probably loses (unless s2 > CH > Bisu, ugh). But if Flash beats fantasy on Circuit Breaker, then it's Flash vs Bisu on Aztec - maybe this is why Bisu's so confident? - and then KT has a couple shots to knock Bisu out (BarrackS? YellOw with cheese royale?) if necessary.
Alternatively - and I think this is the better idea - it could be a "stall" player on Fortress (probably Reach or HoeJJa), Action prepped for Icarus... and obviously at that point if KT still doesn't have a win it's Flash time no matter what. SKT's response is going to be hugely different depending on whether it's Reach or HoeJJa... I kid, I kid. If either wins it will be s2 on Icarus, the KT player will lose, and even at 2-1 disadvantage KT can avoid TvP on Aztec by sending Crazy-Hydra (or Action, if they played CH on Icarus) on Circuit Breaker instead of Flash immediately. If s2 (or other SK Zerg) wins on Circuit Breaker, it's TvZ for Flash, then Bisu on La Mancha and fantasy on EotS. If s2 loses on Circuit Breaker, it's Bisu on Aztec and if he wins Flash cleans up vs Bisu on La Mancha and fantasy on EotS.
From SKT's side, it will probably be Sun or BeSt on Bloody Ridge: it's about 80% Stats they're facing. If they win I covered that from KT's side. If SKT loses this set, I think Ssak comes out on Fortress as that's probably SKT's best bet to beat Stats without giving up Aztec as a Flash trump. Why? If fantasy plays Fortress it will be Action on Icarus and fantasy's good but the map sucks. If they're still losing obviously it will then be some combination of fantasy and Bisu. I'd send Bisu on Icarus and risk fantasy vs Flash on Aztec.
If Ssak wins on Fortress it will be Action/Crazy-Hydra on Icarus and I think he loses that: Bisu plays vs the Zerg on Circuit Breaker and likely wins, then probably takes a sacrificial "look I'm not Flash" win on Aztec before Final Boss comes out on La Mancha.
If by some miracle Ssak wins on Icarus too then he plays the other of Action/CH on Circuit Breaker - loser faces Flash or Bisu on Aztec and we've been over this already.
Final prediction:
 By.Sun <Bloody Ridge> Stats
 Ssak <Fortress> Stats
Ssak <Icarus>  Action
Bisu <Circuit Breaker> Action
Bisu <Aztec> Crazy-Hydra
Bisu <La Mancha> Flash
Fantasy <Empire of the Sun> Flash
...I'm not sure fantasy's actually better than Flash, I'm just convinced SKT's got destiny (and screwing over my liquibet) on its side right now.
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EDIT: Adding some stuff about TvP on the two maps.
Limiting to the time both maps have been being used, Aztec's TvP is "only" 7-9. On the other hand, in the name of meaningless stats, including Dream League Bloody Ridge is actually 16-13 TvP, which I guess means Dream League Protoss suck. Aztec is 17-32 with Dream League + Prelims; 7-10 during the time Bloody Ridge has also been played. Basically, if you have to pick a map to TvP on, Aztec it is, so let's not have Flash come out first, 'k?
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I think SKT zergs will definitely prep on Icarus as well for Flash. Because they actually might send Flash out starting from Fortress and save Stats for the later sets. If that happens, and SKT can't take him down until Aztec, KT will be still leading 3-2. If stats can beat Bisu on La Mancha, then he gets the favorite EoTS Vs Fantasy, which is a viable option as well for KT. Instead of risking Stats AND Flash after the first 5 sets, after Aztec
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LOL! KT put Yellow on their banner.
Idiots. Now you're sure to get 2nd this PL.
Way to fingerboomb yourselves idiots. IDIOTS.
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Man... Still 2 days!
I can't wait...
Gonna freeze myself for 2 days then unfreeze 5 minutes before the finals start.
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PvP on Bloody Ridge most likely. Maybe T1 sends s2 to snipe Stats?
I mostly agree with VGhost though.
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YELLOW!!!!!!!
Ssak <Bloody Ridge> YellOw
Hyuk <Fortress> YellOw
Hyuk <Icarus> Crazy-Hydra
Fantasy <Circuit Breaker> Crazy-Hydra
Fantasy <Aztec> Stats
Fantasy <La Mancha> Flash
Bisu <Empire of the Sun> Flash
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I am a sc2 player that has been trying to watch the series, but i cant really get into it because i don't really know what is happening,i.e. why their decisions are so good.
Could someone out there do an English commentary of the finals so i can gain some kind of insight into their mastery?
THANKS!!
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On April 07 2011 11:16 DirtYLOu wrote:YELLOW!!!!!!! Ssak <Bloody Ridge> YellOwHyuk <Fortress> YellOw Hyuk <Icarus> Crazy-HydraFantasy <Circuit Breaker> Crazy-Hydra Fantasy <Aztec> Stats Fantasy <La Mancha> FlashBisu <Empire of the Sun> Flash
I think Stats and Flash are a given for KT's lineup. I would assume that Action will play as well. Last slot is a tossup, maybe CH (if he's had time to get adjusted and has shown good results in practice), maybe YellOw/Reach, or Barracks/roo/tempest.
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EPT
