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[SWL] KT Rolster vs Hwaseung OZ - Page 51

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Prev 1 49 50 51 52 53 Next
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
March 07 2011 21:32 GMT
#1001
Who cares? Even if there is a slight statistical imbalance in TvZ, we're talking about Jaedong vs. Flash here.

By far, far, far and away the most important influence on the outcome of a game is how the players played the game. After all, Flash just lost two TvZ's on this map.

BW is never going to change. Let's please talk about play in our LR threads, not balance.
imperfect
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada1652 Posts
March 07 2011 21:32 GMT
#1002
flash so good!!!!

from a few glimpses of FP views, he doesn't even seem THAT fast.. the guy's just a machine, never makes an incorrect decision. i wonder if it's just sense or he calculates everything.

what a monster
blind bisu free and anytime fanboy.
Engdrew
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States890 Posts
March 07 2011 21:34 GMT
#1003
that +1 was so effective in dealing with the fast lurkers when he didnt have tanks. amazing
.
kdgns
Profile Joined May 2009
United States2427 Posts
March 07 2011 21:35 GMT
#1004
On March 08 2011 06:10 bokeevboke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 05:42 Eun_Star wrote:
Seriously? After +10 years of bw, people are still complaining about balance. Jaedong made mistakes in the game which lead to his loss. Flash played near perfect.

Flash went for up-terran build with 5 rax, sacrificing his tech. Had Jaedong went mutalisks, he would have been a worse position imo. Flash would have had his m&m forces with +1 upgrades all over the map, and there is no way a group of muta can easily handle that (jaedong also went for fast carapace upgrade to match the +1 of flash). So Jaedong tried to do a back stab, which was immediately caught by flash. Luckily for jaedong flash had the most of his units out on the field and his 5 rax just came up, jaedong had the chance to harrass the natural, but he decided to run-by, which failed. Jaedong knew that he was incredibly behind at this point, so he tries to double expand by taking the mineral only and 11 o'clock expansion. Guess what, jaedong had a poor positioning of lurkers and flash rolled over jaedong from there. You can't cry about marines because flash split his marines and found a opening in jaedong's defense. Had flash failed the attack, jaedong would have easily taken the 4th gas to go into hive play. Iirc, flash didn't even have enough minerals to expand while pumping marines from 5 rax.


I am not sc bw expert and I haven't beem following bw much. But some of Korean A-class progamers mentioned that T is favored in TvZ. And mapmackers are doing huge job to balance the matchup and they do not always succeed. Just check map statistics.


There should be built in favor for T>Z>P>T when blizzard made the game (very slight, but its there). In lower tier non-pro games i think this trend is followed decently closely.
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-07 21:50:57
March 07 2011 21:49 GMT
#1005
On March 08 2011 06:32 imperfect wrote:
flash so good!!!!

from a few glimpses of FP views, he doesn't even seem THAT fast.. the guy's just a machine, never makes an incorrect decision. i wonder if it's just sense or he calculates everything.

what a monster

Flash's sustained APM is actually quite high for a terran (avg 350-450 apm, highs of over 500), though it might not seem like much when compared to certain zergs (like Effort or hero). His EAPM is what really matters though, and Flash knows how to make it count.

With his wrist though he probably isn't moving quite in peak condition atm.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
March 07 2011 22:00 GMT
#1006
Ahh, can't believe this series went to seven with JvF for the ace! ggs KT, see you in the Finals :p
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
March 07 2011 22:17 GMT
#1007
That was a pretty lame JvF... like most JvFs over the last 12 months. Jaedong was helpless and sloppy. I wonder if Killer has better chance of beating Flash than Jaedong at this point...
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
hellbound
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2242 Posts
March 07 2011 22:53 GMT
#1008
Sigh, agreed, that was quite poor, just Flash rolling some random zerg.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
March 07 2011 23:20 GMT
#1009
On March 08 2011 06:35 kdgns wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 06:10 bokeevboke wrote:
On March 08 2011 05:42 Eun_Star wrote:
Seriously? After +10 years of bw, people are still complaining about balance. Jaedong made mistakes in the game which lead to his loss. Flash played near perfect.

Flash went for up-terran build with 5 rax, sacrificing his tech. Had Jaedong went mutalisks, he would have been a worse position imo. Flash would have had his m&m forces with +1 upgrades all over the map, and there is no way a group of muta can easily handle that (jaedong also went for fast carapace upgrade to match the +1 of flash). So Jaedong tried to do a back stab, which was immediately caught by flash. Luckily for jaedong flash had the most of his units out on the field and his 5 rax just came up, jaedong had the chance to harrass the natural, but he decided to run-by, which failed. Jaedong knew that he was incredibly behind at this point, so he tries to double expand by taking the mineral only and 11 o'clock expansion. Guess what, jaedong had a poor positioning of lurkers and flash rolled over jaedong from there. You can't cry about marines because flash split his marines and found a opening in jaedong's defense. Had flash failed the attack, jaedong would have easily taken the 4th gas to go into hive play. Iirc, flash didn't even have enough minerals to expand while pumping marines from 5 rax.


I am not sc bw expert and I haven't beem following bw much. But some of Korean A-class progamers mentioned that T is favored in TvZ. And mapmackers are doing huge job to balance the matchup and they do not always succeed. Just check map statistics.


There should be built in favor for T>Z>P>T when blizzard made the game (very slight, but its there). In lower tier non-pro games i think this trend is followed decently closely.


Maps play a huge factor here, and I don't know if we can discuss balances without discussing maps.

What you said might be true for Python, but I'm too lazy to look up actual stats.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
mnesthes
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
5433 Posts
March 07 2011 23:30 GMT
#1010
I've never seen a BW LR thread that got people banned for a while after Shine vs Bisu in the OSL?
<+LighTofHeaveN> Ppl call this "Indigo Children"
tyCe
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-07 23:47:22
March 07 2011 23:46 GMT
#1011
I can't believe there's so much balance whine in this thread. To the guy who said marines were imba, I would say: "Dude, there is a spell called Dark Swarm, commonly agreed to be the strongest spell in the game. Infinite energy defilers with Dark Swarm makes marines 99% useless." This isn't the SC2 section, and most things in BW have been figured out and balanced by the metagame to a razor's edge.

I thought JD was favoured to take this as he was on a roll since the last proleague match, while Flash wasn't warmed up, had a debilitating injury and was on a cool streak by his standards. JD then proceeded to make 2-3 bad decisions losing him the game. It was a GG and didn't disappoint as a JvF match as we got to see Flash's starsense, decision making and micro, and also JD's lurker micro and his conviction (in his decisions, bad or not, JD is one of the players can make things work by the power of his will). Only bad decision making by JD and insane mass marine micro by Flash swung the game, and it was certainly an entertaining one.

On March 08 2011 07:00 emperorchampion wrote:
Ahh, can't believe this series went to seven with JvF for the ace! ggs KT, see you in the Finals :p


See you OZ in the finals. Say hi to Bisu and Fantasy in the prelimary finals and roll them ezpz please.
Betrayed by EG.BuK
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8100 Posts
March 07 2011 23:50 GMT
#1012
On March 08 2011 07:17 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
That was a pretty lame JvF... like most JvFs over the last 12 months. Jaedong was helpless and sloppy. I wonder if Killer has better chance of beating Flash than Jaedong at this point...


no way. jaedong still has far away the best ZvT on earth. he made 1 pretty bad decision this game and lost, but if you look at overall ZvT stats, JD is still the only zerg that consistently beats A-class terrans. He is over 100 ELO points above the #2 ZvTer, Zero, who is just way too inconsistent vs terrans still :\. Even though JD loses random ZvTs once in a while (like vs BByong), i think it's pretty clear that his late-game skill is still unmatched by any other zerg. besides his lost to BByong, JD's only ZvT loses this season are to light/flash (oh yea and that game vs hiya in OSL -_-).
Free Palestine
crazeh
Profile Joined August 2010
91 Posts
March 08 2011 00:22 GMT
#1013
raped by flash as usual
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
March 08 2011 00:36 GMT
#1014
ahhhh, wasn't able to watch this series. I'm so sad, JD lost to Flash again((( I wish JD went 4 pool this time, but he still wants to prove something challenging Flash macro and game sense. Why do never learn JD? why?

ps: gonna run and watch Jae allkill KHAN, to revive my faith in OZ!
ISighZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States270 Posts
March 08 2011 00:43 GMT
#1015
Awww I missed FvJ. Should have stay up... It's so much better when you watch FvJ with other people in a stream. It just feels different.
There is no one to help you unless you help yourself
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
March 08 2011 00:47 GMT
#1016
Yikes, good games
▲ ▲ ▲
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
March 08 2011 00:57 GMT
#1017
This thread is so funny. People posting about balance without any knowledge of sc. And lol at "marine imba". Someone just made my day :-)
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 01:15:35
March 08 2011 01:08 GMT
#1018
On March 08 2011 09:36 letian wrote:
I wish JD went 4 pool this time, but he still wants to prove something challenging Flash macro and game sense. Why do never learn JD? why?

Because he wants to try to beat flash straight up instead of only with all-in cheese? how is that bad?? JD is one of the best ZvT players ever, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to just cheese his games against flash.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1285 Posts
March 08 2011 01:17 GMT
#1019
A little thing I found amazing was the moment he saw the 3 lurkers and bunch of lings just about to approach his base, he stimmed 4 marines and shoved them into the front bunker. Without the stim, he wouldnt be able to damage 2 lurkers and kill 1 along with all the lings that were there, if he managed to slip all 3 into his main, flash would of had to pull scvs and use more marines to kill.
sup
Fishmalk
Profile Joined November 2010
74 Posts
March 08 2011 02:13 GMT
#1020
Jaedong continues to show us he shouldn't bother trying when his opponent is a half-decent terran.

User was warned for this post
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