thanks for streaming, craton, btw. i just really hope that jaedong gets matched up against one of the twin terrans so that we don't have a series of failfests.
Impressive play from Princess especially the ling backstabs. He's obviously been practicing w/ jaedong cause for the past few months jaedong's widely been using them in his zvz
yea, hyun didn't play very well. His control was off and basically died to constant ling backstabs. Princess' micro seemed to be top notch, as he ate very little scourge, and basically came out ahead in every single engagement.
In fact, they both did the same build, so there wasn't any sort of BO advantage.
Really impressive game by the winner. Ling micro was great in that first battle which thrust him ahead. He didn't get the jitters either and micro'd effectively to make the most of his econ advantage until the end.
Ling aggression won that game. Hyun had to drone up a bit at the end because he lost too many. Hopefully, Oz doesn't drive Jaedong crazy with all the 1-4 losses.
On October 27 2010 13:35 matjlav wrote: I'm torn here. I do love Jaehoon, but Lomo is on an 8-game losing streak and he's just too pretty to have to go through that.
lol you just made me spit out my dinner. I knokw we're all homo for lomo, but I didn't know we were out of the closet already.
On October 27 2010 13:35 matjlav wrote: I'm torn here. I do love Jaehoon, but Lomo is on an 8-game losing streak and he's just too pretty to have to go through that.
lol you just made me spit out my dinner. I knokw we're all homo for lomo, but I didn't know we were out of the closet already.
Surely you've seen the "Nadas body" thread? I know I am miles away from the closet at this point
On October 27 2010 13:33 nozaro33 wrote: who sucks more? Oz or MBC? hmm....
Khan and Ace suck more
Probably not Ace, the Bo7 format seems to be fairly good for them seeing they have a whole wave of fairly mediocre to good players while most other teams have a few beastly players and a ton of utter failures.
Judging from current results, Ace could actually make the playoffs if Winner's League doesn't turn out to be too unfavorable for them.
dark archon is literally the most useless unit you can get in tvp unless you plan to mind control an scv to overcome the 200/200 barrier in a stalemate.
On October 27 2010 14:05 Wala.Revolution wrote: Let's recommend that game
And make everyone suffer ust as much as we did.
Hey, at least it wasn't as bad as that Canata TvT that went on for like an hour. And then they had to regame because it was a stalemate.
I'm still so pissed I sat through that game.
lol don't even talk about that game :<
Good times good times lol
Nothing quite like watching control groups of BCs fly around for half an hour waiting for the final climactic battle that never comes. Also vessels emping vessels.
I think you people are being overly critical here. I think the game was surprisingly high level considering it was Lomo vs Jaehoon. I mean, there wasn't a single super retarded and thoughtless recall for example. Surely you remember what happened last time they played (HBR). I was positively surprised by this game. ^__^
On October 27 2010 14:12 Holgerius wrote: I think you people are being overly critical here. I think the game was surprisingly high level considering it was Lomo vs Jaehoon. I mean, there wasn't a single super retarded and thoughtless recall for example. Surely you remember what happened last time they played (HBR). I was positively surprised by this game. ^__^
Recalling 20 zealots and 1 goon to a base with a lifted cc? Recalling like 8 goons?
On October 27 2010 14:12 Holgerius wrote: I think you people are being overly critical here. I think the game was surprisingly high level considering it was Lomo vs Jaehoon. I mean, there wasn't a single super retarded and thoughtless recall for example. Surely you remember what happened last time they played (HBR). I was positively surprised by this game. ^__^
Recalling 20 zealots and 1 goon to a base with a lifted cc? Recalling like 8 goons?
..unless you're being sarcastic and I missed that
Go back and watch their last game and then compare it to this one. If you think those recalls were bad...
Hey you guys are so mean to Jaehoon, I actually liked that game, not for its quality but for the consistent fails and units dying everywhere. As said above, a LOT better than late-late-game TvT where 2 flocks of BC's fly around the map avoiding each other.
How in the world did Lomo go from performing so well during his debut period to where he is now? He's honestly looking much worse than Jaehoon, who's actually not doing that badly right now, at least results-wise.
Jaehoon <3 Actually, he's improved since last season. Not profusely sweating anymore, even when he loses. Round 5 last season was just so painful to watch. Every game he played looked like he was on the verge of an emotional breakdown. Maybe Coach Ha was too hard on him.
Commentators revealing the pre-game chat topic: JD and Light were saying to each other they each expected to play vs. Protoss since the map is Protoss-friendly. I suppose they found amusement in the fact that both coaches failed to predict the matchup.
I hope to see infested command centers! Light's TvZ is one of the best, but Jaedong..is Jaedong. I don't know these knew maps very well but I hope for a good game!
Did Jaedong set a trap for Light's wraiths like that? That was pretty fucking awesome how Jaedong's reinforcing overlords showed up exactly when they were needed.
Hot damn. Funny to think that most of the time it's "get 2 wins and then Jaedong can clean up" but to think what happens when Jaedong actually drops a game. o___o
On October 27 2010 14:35 Graham wrote: Hot damn. Funny to think that most of the time it's "get 2 wins and then Jaedong can clean up" but to think what happens when Jaedong actually drops a game. o___o
That is when they have to send out Perfectman to get some shit done.
Jaedong was too aggressive. He needed to recover from the wraith harass instead of going all-in with mutas. Took too much damage from turrets and stuff.
As good as he is, his decision making has been retarded for months in so many zvts he played. Those few drone kills weren't worth the wraith investment, and he is already on 3 gas. Why the fuck would you all-in the terran? And never stop even when you still have options.
Good play by Light though, defended like a champion.
On October 27 2010 14:37 andrewlt wrote: Jaedong was too aggressive. He needed to recover from the wraith harass instead of going all-in with mutas. Took too much damage from turrets and stuff.
Light isn't particularly known for his wraith micro like Lomo and Leta are, but O_O that was impressive...
You have to appreciate that he was microing his wraiths better than Jaedong was microing his mutas, considering that Jaedong must get much, much more practice with his micro.
As good as he is, his decision making has been retarded for months in so many zvts he played. Those few drone kills weren't worth the wraith investment, and he is already on 3 gas. Why the fuck would you all-in the terran? And never stop even when you still have options.
Good play by Light though, defended like a champion.
Ya, JD's strategical thinking in that game was pretty bad. It was still fun to watch though. ^__^
On October 27 2010 14:37 andrewlt wrote: Jaedong was too aggressive. He needed to recover from the wraith harass instead of going all-in with mutas. Took too much damage from turrets and stuff.
Yep. He went all-in with mutas against Sea on Dreamliner during OSL and lost a game he really should have won. That was just after Flash's 108 turrets against Zero so maybe he wanted to make a statement, I dunno.
As good as he is, his decision making has been retarded for months in so many zvts he played. Those few drone kills weren't worth the wraith investment, and he is already on 3 gas. Why the fuck would you all-in the terran? And never stop even when you still have options.
Good play by Light though, defended like a champion.
Ya, JD's strategical thinking in that game was pretty bad. It was still fun to watch though. ^__^
Oh it was of course exciting But still... a terran on one base with only wraiths... after the first group of mutas and scourge, he could have pumped like 25 drones.
On October 27 2010 14:39 matjlav wrote: Light isn't particularly known for his wraith micro like Lomo and Leta are, but O_O that was impressive...
You have to appreciate that he was microing his wraiths better than Jaedong was microing his mutas, considering that Jaedong must get much, much more practice with his micro.
Well, you still have to take into account that wraiths have 2 more range than mutas AND shoot faster but nonetheless, yes, it was very impressive.
I think that if JD just done a normal 3 hatch muta though that he woulda been fine. Light got a bit lucky that JD 3 hatch before pooled with a 3rd hatch at another base.
As good as he is, his decision making has been retarded for months in so many zvts he played. Those few drone kills weren't worth the wraith investment, and he is already on 3 gas. Why the fuck would you all-in the terran? And never stop even when you still have options.
Good play by Light though, defended like a champion.
Ya, JD's strategical thinking in that game was pretty bad. It was still fun to watch though. ^__^
Oh it was of course exciting But still... a terran on one base with only wraiths... after the first group of mutas and scourge, he could have pumped like 25 drones.
Well, this will go to ace anyway
Light did expand hyper fast though, while still only being on 1 or 2 raxes I think. Way earlier than you usually do when you go 2 Port anyway. I guess JD wanted to punish him for that. He should've stopped when he realized it wasn't working though. It was a pretty silly all-in.
On October 27 2010 15:02 yoonyoon wrote: What the hell happened ;ㅅ; I have classes today so I can't watch the matches.. Can someone summarize what happened in the JD game? =[
Sea has 4 bases running comfortably. Killer is on 6 bases. But Sea can now macro like crazy and I don't think Killer's control is good enough to overcome that macro war.
On October 27 2010 15:02 yoonyoon wrote: What the hell happened ;ㅅ; I have classes today so I can't watch the matches.. Can someone summarize what happened in the JD game? =[
On October 27 2010 15:02 yoonyoon wrote: What the hell happened ;ㅅ; I have classes today so I can't watch the matches.. Can someone summarize what happened in the JD game? =[
It was a great game. Just watch it.
I don't get to go home until like 6 hours so I just needed to know what happened </3
ah. Perfectly executed midgame mech switch from Sea. Killer had the economic and army advantage, but that soon diwndled from throwing into heavy tank lines.
Spider mines make me wanna turn into a 23post-12year-old-SC2-freshling-idra-fan, screaming imba in every single live report thread when a terran unit killls a zerg unit.
But yeah, Sea just on another level than Killer, clearly visible as it gets to mid-late game.
On October 27 2010 15:12 yoonyoon wrote: Lol, is it normal for kpop MVs to play between games..? First time using the stream to watch
Yes, I think it's mainly because of (or I'd rather say thanks to) Roffles. I remember when he started to put kpop on his stream, a lot of people were trash talking lol. Now seeing kpop videos between the matches is the norm.
A least Killer is bad enough that we don't have to watch the zerg suicide into tank lines and mines for 30 minutes like every other late game on grand line. The games pretty much over when the terran can successfully transition into mech and take the other main.
Although I generally approve of kpop girl groups, I do NOT like them singing in horribad Engrish. Seriously yo, why does every song have to contain nonsense English that's not even pronounced properly? The awkward Engrish makes me cringe a lot.
On October 27 2010 15:37 OpticalShot wrote: Although I generally approve of kpop girl groups, I do NOT like them singing in horribad Engrish. Seriously yo, why does every song have to contain nonsense English that's not even pronounced properly? The awkward Engrish makes me cringe a lot.
Because it's not for you.
Horribad, yo, and Engrish aren't real words by the way.
On October 27 2010 15:37 OpticalShot wrote: Although I generally approve of kpop girl groups, I do NOT like them singing in horribad Engrish. Seriously yo, why does every song have to contain nonsense English that's not even pronounced properly? The awkward Engrish makes me cringe a lot.
Koreans can't pronounced properly even plague and mutalisk.
On October 27 2010 15:37 OpticalShot wrote: Although I generally approve of kpop girl groups, I do NOT like them singing in horribad Engrish. Seriously yo, why does every song have to contain nonsense English that's not even pronounced properly? The awkward Engrish makes me cringe a lot.
Koreans can't pronounced properly even plague and mutalisk.
On October 27 2010 15:37 OpticalShot wrote: Although I generally approve of kpop girl groups, I do NOT like them singing in horribad Engrish. Seriously yo, why does every song have to contain nonsense English that's not even pronounced properly? The awkward Engrish makes me cringe a lot.
Koreans can't pronounced properly even plague and mutalisk.
so many terrans push out only to have to run back to defend their main... I bet hiya is just making sure that he won't have to do that before pushing. good for him.
his push is going to be utterly crushed and then he's going to lose all his bases before he can reach critical mass of goliaths. this isn't even fun to watch
sigh. Han's carriers seem to have reached critical mass unchallenged and he still has a tonne of bases. Not look good for Hiya and Oz's hopes rite now.
At least PerfectMan is continuing his winning streak. Still sad to see that Oz can't win without JD. Even ACE is performing much better this season. :/
I think Hiya needs to be given a rest next games, and more Protosses need to be sent from Oz.T_T Protoss is viable vs any race, but Terrans seem to be not winning vs P anyway.
And seeing that, having BackHo on team and not sending him??? WTF?
Tyson had really good timing delaying that first attempt at taking the 3rd. From there on he kept Hiya way behind on bases. Way to keep expanding and making units while not just starring at his Carriers for 3 minutes to make sure not 1 of them ever die. -__-
A comment from Fomos game summary article: "Luckily this (Tyson vs Hiya) was played in MBC studio. If this was played in OGN, Kim Carrier would have flipped out."
On October 27 2010 16:26 OpticalShot wrote: A comment from Fomos game summary article: "Luckily this (Tyson vs Hiya) was played in MBC studio. If this was played in OGN, Kim Carrier would have flipped out."
Lmao reminds me of that game where bisu switched to carriers Kim Carrier: KAAAAREEEEEEOOOOOORRRR is the strongest protoss unit against terran. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU SWITCH INTO CARRIERS. RIVO CARRIOR TEMPLAR CARRIOR!!
In hindsight, it would've been better to play Backho rather than Hiya in the sixth game. Hiya's game is deteriorating at a worrying rate. I guess that Backho was punished for his mistake in the previous match and therefore got replaced by the surprisingly effective Princess. Killer and Jaedong losing to Sea and Light is understandable while Lomo really should've done better. Perfectman is just getting ridiculous, what a baller.
Light winning again means that MBC is back in action. With both Light and Sea rolling the team can win any matchup. A Jaehoon win always pleases my heart and it was a good move to play him in the least pressurizing position. Hyun has always been bad at zvz so no surprise there and Saint is sometimes good, sometimes bad. Tyson beating Hiya is good but he's always been capable of turning in quality games under pressure. It seems like the coaches from MBC are starting to understand how to get their team working, while OZ just needs one of the old Jaedong backup-crew to get out of his slump.
On October 27 2010 17:38 alffla wrote: wow 2 port wriaht into 1 base tvz owned JAEDONG!??!?!
yup the funny thing is I believe this same strategy beat Jaedong in the all star like 4 hours before their BO5 in the MSL semi's . Jaedong seems weak to 2 port wraith hehe.
On October 27 2010 14:34 Womwomwom wrote: lol Light just did what Leta could never do.
I think only due to 3 hatch no pool beginning this bo worked out, its amazing how JD managed to fend it off for some time, going an autoGG BO, it was clear that Light did prepare well, gg Light, still you're a one-legged player (TvZ specialist).
On October 27 2010 14:34 Womwomwom wrote: lol Light just did what Leta could never do.
I think only due to 3 hatch no pool beginning this bo worked out, its amazing how JD managed to fend it off for some time, going an autoGG BO, it was clear that Light did prepare well, gg Light, still you're a one-legged player (TvZ specialist).
On October 27 2010 14:34 Womwomwom wrote: lol Light just did what Leta could never do.
I think only due to 3 hatch no pool beginning this bo worked out, its amazing how JD managed to fend it off for some time, going an autoGG BO, it was clear that Light did prepare well, gg Light, still you're a one-legged player (TvZ specialist).
Bitter much...
yeah, sorry Light, I'm too sad with you winning JD to be kind)))
On October 27 2010 18:31 Stuv wrote: HiyA is in a big slump this year, been practicing too much with SC2?
too much toying around and entertaining spectators will never end well, I guess he got too relaxed and stopped concentrating, still I think Hiya is a promising player with nice ideas and some talent, sadly though Perfectman does better than he.
I think Hiya really needs a rest next match. Perfectman, Killer (hope he isn't ZvT'ing again, OMFG), Jaedong and BackHo must be enough to bring it at least to Ace (if not win match before it).
Maybe they should try Dear whom they got from estro recently.
All their terrans by this time are a fail, tbh.
and "we require more protoss"! As I said before, protoss race has by now no super weak matchups (like are ZvT and TvP this season), so P is always viable choice. Seriously. If you have to send unexperienced or unreliable player, send Protoss. They have so much chance of winning with medium efforts.
On October 27 2010 18:31 Stuv wrote: HiyA is in a big slump this year, been practicing too much with SC2?
too much toying around and entertaining spectators will never end well, I guess he got too relaxed and stopped concentrating, still I think Hiya is a promising player with nice ideas and some talent, sadly though Perfectman does better than he.
Hiya is losing because he's only merely good and he's playing against some of the best players right now. Getting sent home in a body bag after playing Flash, Kal, or Leta is a fairly common occurrence.
Perfectman does better than him because, while he's certainly improved, he's playing everyone's craplist. Guys like Saint and Tempest are guys you really shouldn't be losing to.
What Hiya needs is to play someone that isn't better than him.
On October 27 2010 19:09 Ryo wrote: Hiya's last four matches: Leta, Flash, Kal, Tyson. Tough luck. He needs to meet some scrub to get his confidence back.
yeah, very solid players, Hiya is just a scrub beater!
On October 27 2010 20:37 _Quasar_ wrote: I think Hiya really needs a rest next match. Perfectman, Killer (hope he isn't ZvT'ing again, OMFG), Jaedong and BackHo must be enough to bring it at least to Ace (if not win match before it).
Maybe they should try Dear whom they got from estro recently.
All their terrans by this time are a fail, tbh.
and "we require more protoss"! As I said before, protoss race has by now no super weak matchups (like are ZvT and TvP this season), so P is always viable choice. Seriously. If you have to send unexperienced or unreliable player, send Protoss. They have so much chance of winning with medium efforts.
and I thought it was Terrans that have a chance of winning)))
On October 27 2010 22:59 letian wrote: and I thought it was Terrans that have a chance of winning)))
Against Protoss? ZOMFG, don't make my slippers laugh. :D This season Terrans massively fail against Protoss. As I said, when medium (among koreans ofc) level players play, protoss is the best choice.
And Hiya was given enough chance during this game, and still he failed in it (even more fail than his opponent did). I think its coach's absence of "psychologic starsense". Seeing TvP massive lose, he MUSTN'T send a terran, especially non-confident nowadays, to a deciding match, when its 99% guaranteed that his opponent will be Protoss (all decent T & Z of opponent already played).
I would understand if they had someone like Flash or at least Fantasy/Leta. But Hiya? Wtf. Hiya doesn't take stars from the sky. He can be brilliant in particular matches, but most of the matches he is nothing special. T_T
I watched game 2 because it had a higher recommendation percentage than even Light vs. Jaedong.
Fuck you.
You are not alone... Was pretty entertaning though. But Lomo is so bad at pushing it hurts... Jaehoon 20 zealots recall and his "let's protect his army by creating a chokepoint" stasis were priceless ^^
On October 27 2010 22:59 letian wrote: and I thought it was Terrans that have a chance of winning)))
Against Protoss? ZOMFG, don't make my slippers laugh. :D This season Terrans massively fail against Protoss. As I said, when medium (among koreans ofc) level players play, protoss is the best choice.
And Hiya was given enough chance during this game, and still he failed in it (even more fail than his opponent did). I think its coach's absence of "psychologic starsense". Seeing TvP massive lose, he MUSTN'T send a terran, especially non-confident nowadays, to a deciding match, when its 99% guaranteed that his opponent will be Protoss (all decent T & Z of opponent already played).
I would understand if they had someone like Flash or at least Fantasy/Leta. But Hiya? Wtf. Hiya doesn't take stars from the sky. He can be brilliant in particular matches, but most of the matches he is nothing special. T_T
well, my idea is based on the matchup itself, I consider Terrans a race, that is suitable for safe play much more than Zerg or Toss, don't u think? Well anyway, what do I understand with my D+ skill))) I still hope Hiya will put his chit together, OZ FTW!
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
why is his team so bad, and why doesn't he play for a good team? im new to the BW scene so my apologies for the dumb question.
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
why is his team so bad, and why doesn't he play for a good team? im new to the BW scene so my apologies for the dumb question.
Jaedong has a very strong attachement to OZ (might be less after their previous coach left), it would take a lot for Jaedong to leave them.
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
why is his team so bad, and why doesn't he play for a good team? im new to the BW scene so my apologies for the dumb question.
He was a free agent at one point, but that didn't really work out and he ended up going back to Oz in the end.
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
why is his team so bad, and why doesn't he play for a good team? im new to the BW scene so my apologies for the dumb question.
Buying Jaedong would be really expensive for another team given the free agency rules.
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
why is his team so bad, and why doesn't he play for a good team? im new to the BW scene so my apologies for the dumb question.
They were really good at one point, but then Anytime left for the military (and apparently had an argument with the coach) and fOrGG started slumping and moved to KT, leaving only Jaedong. Then nobody else really stepped up to the plate. Now he's (probably) too attached to Oz to ever leave and too expensive for any other team to pick up
On October 28 2010 07:20 Ikonn wrote: They were really good at one point, but then Anytime left for the military (and apparently had an argument with the coach)
I swear, no one has actually ever read the interview and just goes off of hear-say.
On October 28 2010 07:20 Ikonn wrote: They were really good at one point, but then Anytime left for the military (and apparently had an argument with the coach)
I swear, no one has actually ever read the interview and just goes off of hear-say.
call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
yes TvZ slightly favors terran, but that doesn't take away from Light's S-Class TvZ skills. Its probably only a step below Flash atm.
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
yes TvZ slightly favors terran, but that doesn't take away from Light's S-Class TvZ skills. Its probably only a step below Flash atm.
He is saying that Light is only a one matchup player that is only good at the "imbalanced" matchups AKA PvT, TvZ and ZvP that one race have an advantage over another (a slight one I might add). So that's why he doesn't like him, he didn't say that Light isn't godly at the matchup only that he is bad at other matchups.
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
first of all, Sea is really good at all 3 matchups. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about in that regard. (I actually think his TvP is looking a lot stronger than his TvZ right now.)
It's ironic that you mentioned Bisu because Bisu is pretty much a one trick pony just like Light is at this point, too. In case you haven't noticed, Bisu's PvT and PvP suck right now. Just because the one he's good at is what you perceive as "hard" doesn't make it somehow better.
And Light didn't get "lucky" with Jaedong, he outplayed him, plain and simple. Watch the game. At every point, Light was outmicroing and outthinking Jaedong. In their Bo5 in the MSL, the 2 games that Light won were long macro games, while the 3 games Jaedong won were 2 ling all-ins and one timing attack.
Yeah, his TvP is kind of sad and his TvT is mediocre, but that doesn't change the fact that Light's TvZ is fucking beautiful. You can call TvZ the "easy" matchup, but the fact is Light excels at TvZ in a way that no one else but Flash does. And, unlike Flash, Light excels at late game, aggressive, post-ultra TvZ which is really, really fucking difficult (whereas Flash always chooses to turtle up with tanks and mines at that point).
Just because Light's other matchups aren't good doesn't mean that his TvZ somehow isn't.
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
why is his team so bad, and why doesn't he play for a good team? im new to the BW scene so my apologies for the dumb question.
They were really good at one point, but then Anytime left for the military (and apparently had an argument with the coach) and fOrGG started slumping and moved to KT, leaving only Jaedong. Then nobody else really stepped up to the plate. Now he's (probably) too attached to Oz to ever leave and too expensive for any other team to pick up
thanks for all the responses
one last fail question and I promise I'll stop (or get banned), are these team games precursors to the OSL and MSL games, which are more individually focused? Whats the main function of these team games?
Think about it: Obviously Terran has certain advantages over zerg, but zerg also has certain advantages over terran. SO what? That doesn't stop Jaedong from taking a match from Flash once in a while, and beating just about every other Terran out there. Jaedong vs T is weak and Light vs Z is strong, yet Jaedong beat him 2-1 in WCG Korea. There are many people who accel at one matchup, but you won't see them winning MSL/OSL. Obviously, Jaedong prefers ending the game early with Ling micro, where Light prefers long macro games.
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
Light's TvZ is S-class and his TvT is decent (I would hardly call a 53% winrate bad). And Sea is well-rounded in all match-ups. Light didn't just get "lucky" with Jaedong. Everyone says he's good for a reason. So if a player who hasn't won a starleague beats Jaedong, it means he just got "lucky" and doesn't any deserve credit??
And quite frankly, regardless of any imbalance in ZvT, Jaedong's decision making in ZvT over the last few months has not been good.
On October 27 2010 20:53 yoonyoon wrote: JD's twitter: Guess I'm going to spend a depressing week *sigh*
Aww... Poor JD. :/
we need to like do something for Jaedong... i feel so bad for him
he looked like he was about to cry after his loss =(
Alot of players do. Although I bet Jaedong knows just how important winning for his team is, considering he is the only pillar holding them up, must suck for him .
why is his team so bad, and why doesn't he play for a good team? im new to the BW scene so my apologies for the dumb question.
They were really good at one point, but then Anytime left for the military (and apparently had an argument with the coach) and fOrGG started slumping and moved to KT, leaving only Jaedong. Then nobody else really stepped up to the plate. Now he's (probably) too attached to Oz to ever leave and too expensive for any other team to pick up
thanks for all the responses
one last fail question and I promise I'll stop (or get banned), are these team games precursors to the OSL and MSL games, which are more individually focused? Whats the main function of these team games?
There are three official leagues: Proleague, OSL, MSL. They have no further relation. Proleague lasts all year while there are three OSL's and MSL's every year.
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
What matchup is only sea good at? He did pwn BeSt and JangBi in their best MU, PvT got 80% winrate in PL atm... (example lol)
Jaedong can be so stubborn imo. If he just got spores then he would have saved all the shit he lost anyway. Then go oldschool hydra/lurk for victory... but no he HAS to go and do muta's again and try to fight both wraiths and mnm. He didn't go muta first so why put himself at a disadvantage by switching to it.
I agree Jaedong is stubborn to a fault recently. Seems like he has a complex over losing his dominance and is out to prove something every time he plays. If he had made one lousy spore at each base the game would have been a lot different I think.
Or if he did insist on fighting the wraiths, why not muta/queen and save yourself the constant overlord losses? One ensnare pulled off right and he wins. It's not like he wasting wasting enough resources already.
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
What matchup is only sea good at? He did pwn BeSt and JangBi in their best MU, PvT got 80% winrate in PL atm... (example lol)
Sea is very good at all his matchups, which makes him an excellent terran (leta, forgg, and as you noticed, Light all have holes in some matchups) but I always though of sea and flash differently since they debuted because they showed proficiency in all their matchups
On October 29 2010 11:26 infinity2k9 wrote: Or if he did insist on fighting the wraiths, why not muta/queen and save yourself the constant overlord losses? One ensnare pulled off right and he wins. It's not like he wasting wasting enough resources already.
queens nest: 100-100 (a mutalisk) ensnare research: at least 100-100 (another mutalisk) 2 queens (becuase 1 queen would be too easy to snipe, really): 200-200 (2 more mutalisks)
time spent waiting for queens to come out and researches and energy to be complete: a hell of a lot more than ovie speed and quite a few mutalisks with that
jaedong did react to the initial harass on the economy subparly, imo he should have pulled back all drones to main while his spire was going up to minimize losses with hydras until his spire was up or if he took out enough wraiths with his hydra to get his gas well
i think he could have had a chance after he reduced the wraith number to like 3, because he definetly saw the number of marines growing; he should have gotten lurker research and or thrown up another sunken while he waited for it to come up. even then, the timing would have been razor thin; jaedong was in a very bad position after light raped his drone count
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
Other than the part about Sea (his TvP and TvT are really good, he's beaten Best and Jangbi this season) I agree. I hate all these 1 matchup players. I mean you don't have to be equally as good at each matchup because obviously your race gives you some advantage over one race and a disadvantage against another, but a skill discrepancy this huge is ridiculous. Light beats Jaedong 2 straight times in proleague and almost beats him in a Bo5 but then gets completely molested by the likes of Jaehoon and Perfectman
On October 29 2010 11:12 infinity2k9 wrote: Jaedong can be so stubborn imo. If he just got spores then he would have saved all the shit he lost anyway. Then go oldschool hydra/lurk for victory... but no he HAS to go and do muta's again and try to fight both wraiths and mnm. He didn't go muta first so why put himself at a disadvantage by switching to it.
Well he wanted to get mutas first but you don't get them out fast enough to stop 2 port wraith so you add a hydra den first. After that you need either mutas or lurkers to defend the oncoming push and theres no choice thats definitively better. Recall Leta vs Effort where effort did what you suggest here (spores --> hydra lurker) and he got completely stomped by leta's wraith micro and the inevitable push.
Jaedong's problem was just that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time kinda thing. Lost way too many drones to be able to mount resistance, and unfortunately medic marine is invincible in TvZ and does like 84327499299 DPS. I agree spores might have helped tho
On October 28 2010 09:04 rel4pse wrote: call me a rabid jaedong fan, call me bitter, but light pisses me off to no end. his ONLY good match up is TvZ. i'm not calling imba or anything but you have to face the fact that T always has some innate advantage over Z (like P has over T). i have little respect for T's like forgg or sea who are only good at the one matchup their race has an advantage at (and for that same reason <3 bisu). sick of people saying "wahhh good play by light" because jaedong is unarguably the better player. light hasn't won CRAP and he gets lucky with jaedong and everyone says how good he is.
What matchup is only sea good at? He did pwn BeSt and JangBi in their best MU, PvT got 80% winrate in PL atm... (example lol)
Honestly, right now beating Jangbi is no accomplishment. If even the weaker WMF terrans beat Jangbi, that would be no upset. Beating Best is impressive, but he did not 'pwn' Best, he won with an early advantage that Best almost recovered from.
i think effort's micro is worse than JD's so that might have worked.
i remember when I discussed JD vs Light somewhere else, we thought that best decision here was to put 3rd hatchery NOT in 3rd expo. That is undefendable vs that build. 2 bases' drones might have been saved.
On October 29 2010 11:26 infinity2k9 wrote: Or if he did insist on fighting the wraiths, why not muta/queen and save yourself the constant overlord losses? One ensnare pulled off right and he wins. It's not like he wasting wasting enough resources already.
queens nest: 100-100 (a mutalisk) ensnare research: at least 100-100 (another mutalisk) 2 queens (becuase 1 queen would be too easy to snipe, really): 200-200 (2 more mutalisks)
time spent waiting for queens to come out and researches and energy to be complete: a hell of a lot more than ovie speed and quite a few mutalisks with that
jaedong did react to the initial harass on the economy subparly, imo he should have pulled back all drones to main while his spire was going up to minimize losses with hydras until his spire was up or if he took out enough wraiths with his hydra to get his gas well
i think he could have had a chance after he reduced the wraith number to like 3, because he definetly saw the number of marines growing; he should have gotten lurker research and or thrown up another sunken while he waited for it to come up. even then, the timing would have been razor thin; jaedong was in a very bad position after light raped his drone count
I realize the cost and time. But now count the mins of overlords and mutas lost that would not have been... the wraiths are completely useless ensnared
On October 29 2010 11:26 infinity2k9 wrote: Or if he did insist on fighting the wraiths, why not muta/queen and save yourself the constant overlord losses? One ensnare pulled off right and he wins. It's not like he wasting wasting enough resources already.
queens nest: 100-100 (a mutalisk) ensnare research: at least 100-100 (another mutalisk) 2 queens (becuase 1 queen would be too easy to snipe, really): 200-200 (2 more mutalisks)
time spent waiting for queens to come out and researches and energy to be complete: a hell of a lot more than ovie speed and quite a few mutalisks with that
jaedong did react to the initial harass on the economy subparly, imo he should have pulled back all drones to main while his spire was going up to minimize losses with hydras until his spire was up or if he took out enough wraiths with his hydra to get his gas well
i think he could have had a chance after he reduced the wraith number to like 3, because he definetly saw the number of marines growing; he should have gotten lurker research and or thrown up another sunken while he waited for it to come up. even then, the timing would have been razor thin; jaedong was in a very bad position after light raped his drone count
I realize the cost and time. But now count the mins of overlords and mutas lost that would not have been... the wraiths are completely useless ensnared
I totally agree. Ensnare'd wraiths are so helpless. 400-400 is a good investment to shut out 2 wraith port solid. This is assuming he can ensnare with 2 or 3 tries (which I'm sure for JD is no prob)
the main point of all that was that is 4 mutalisks you aren't making and in that time jaedong is fighting for his fucking life 5 mutalisks as opposed to 9 is very different if he tried to go queens light could very easily just overpower him with onlywraith not to even mention what would happen if he mixed in marines and medics (which he did).
It was nice to see such a micro-fest. Jaedong obviously felt like he had something to prove so he tried to overpower Light with mutas. He could've won many other ways and I'm sure the coaches had a talk with him after the game. The win would have contributed to raising Oz's spirit and maybe sent the match to Ace.
Jaedong was on three base vs. a teching terran? Granted unsaturated and low army count but Jaedong was in a huge lead if he had denied the early harass better and played more orthodoxly after that. I think the fact that Light went with such a cocky build stirred something inside Jaedong that made him want to dominate Light and put him and every other Terran that doubt him, back in their place. To prove that he is something more by beating them in their own game. If he had played more defensively he could've easily done his patented two-control-groups-of-mutas-until-they-gg build
I think he's trying 3hbp and risking because of this. He thinks this strategy should become a standard just like 14cc and I believe he must be right. So it's worth the risk.
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Princess < Benzene > 
Lomo < Empire of the Sun > 
Jaehoon
