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On November 28 2009 18:23 FireGuyX wrote:
I hope Movie learns his lesson after this loss. He tried cheesing against Fantasy and Jaedong in the last MSL and that failed.
What lesson? He cheesed Jaedong and won the first game, then cheesed Fantasy and came within one dodged EMP of winning that too when Fantasy's TvP was the best in the world.
Movie can play solid and he's also a threat to cheese - it's a good combination to have.
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the instant an s-class gamer loses a game, idiots already start freaking out about their "slump" and "shaky play"
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On November 28 2009 18:25 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:22 Gustav_Wind wrote:On November 28 2009 18:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:On November 28 2009 18:00 cunninglinguists wrote:
it seems that the dominance that everyone was known for is fading:
stork's slipping up in his pvp
jaedong's slipping up in his zvz
effort's slipping up in his zvz
bisu's slipping up in his pvz (in comparison to his previous dominance)
hwasin's slipping up in his tvz
fantasy is slipping up in his tvp
flash is slipping up in his tvp God one game does not mean Stork's PvP is slipping. Please don't try to make dumb umbrella assertions. Same with Flash. Yeah his TvP is just SO bad now, coz he lost one game to Best. Flash said in an interview that he feels it's his weakest matchup. You're talking about Flash here. His weakest matchup doesn't say anything. He's undisputedly Starcraft's #1 TvZ and TvT. So worse than #1 = slipping? Flash was known for creating the anti-carrier build, not for destroying every Toss in existence. He's far from slumping in that matchup.
Yeah he probably has the second best TvP behind Fantasy.
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On November 28 2009 18:23 Kot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:22 Gustav_Wind wrote:On November 28 2009 18:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:On November 28 2009 18:00 cunninglinguists wrote:
it seems that the dominance that everyone was known for is fading:
stork's slipping up in his pvp
jaedong's slipping up in his zvz
effort's slipping up in his zvz
bisu's slipping up in his pvz (in comparison to his previous dominance)
hwasin's slipping up in his tvz
fantasy is slipping up in his tvp
flash is slipping up in his tvp God one game does not mean Stork's PvP is slipping. Please don't try to make dumb umbrella assertions. Same with Flash. Yeah his TvP is just SO bad now, coz he lost one game to Best. Flash said in an interview that he feels it's his weakest matchup. just cause it's his worst matchup doesn't mean he doesn't have the best tvp in the world
Sure, but the guy's original point was that players famous for being good in certain matchups have had their strengths and weaknesses change somewhat recently. And that has happened with Flash's TvP/TvZ.
Also, I'd say results-wise he's doing about as well as Fantasy in TvP recently. It's hard to say since he hasn't been playing many Protosses.
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United States10774 Posts
On November 28 2009 18:23 Sentenal wrote:
How do you lose a proxy 2gate vs 12hatch? I swear, my head will explode if more things like this keep happening tonight.
i actually think 12 hatch is better vs proxy 2 gate than 9 pool/overpool builds. you are constantly pumping out of two hatcheries rather than one. from my experience i win with proxy gates more often when z goes pool first build
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On November 28 2009 18:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:So that means both movie and Stork can't advance  ((
It breaks my heart. . . but yeah. Good luck to them both.
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oh shit. I want that Stork and Movie pass...
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On November 28 2009 18:26 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:25 StorkHwaiting wrote:On November 28 2009 18:22 Gustav_Wind wrote:On November 28 2009 18:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:On November 28 2009 18:00 cunninglinguists wrote:
it seems that the dominance that everyone was known for is fading:
stork's slipping up in his pvp
jaedong's slipping up in his zvz
effort's slipping up in his zvz
bisu's slipping up in his pvz (in comparison to his previous dominance)
hwasin's slipping up in his tvz
fantasy is slipping up in his tvp
flash is slipping up in his tvp God one game does not mean Stork's PvP is slipping. Please don't try to make dumb umbrella assertions. Same with Flash. Yeah his TvP is just SO bad now, coz he lost one game to Best. Flash said in an interview that he feels it's his weakest matchup. You're talking about Flash here. His weakest matchup doesn't say anything. He's undisputedly Starcraft's #1 TvZ and TvT. So worse than #1 = slipping? Flash was known for creating the anti-carrier build, not for destroying every Toss in existence. He's far from slumping in that matchup. Yeah he probably has the second best TvP behind Fantasy.
It's really hard to compare Flash and Fantasy (except in TvT where Flash is obviously better) because their styles are so different. Sometimes it's both how well they are playing and how the metagame is operating at the time. When Fantasy dictated the TvZ metagame he was the best TvZ player for awhile, and now Flash is just straight rolling.
When it comes to TvP, Fantasy might be more likely to beat Bisu/Jangbi/Stork/Best/Kal, but at the same time there's no way in the world Flash would ever have lost that game on Destination to Stats. You can argue that Fantasy is better because he's more likely to beat an elite P, but at the same time Flash virtually never loses to Protoss players other than the elite, whereas Fantasy might.
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On November 28 2009 18:26 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:23 Sentenal wrote:
How do you lose a proxy 2gate vs 12hatch? I swear, my head will explode if more things like this keep happening tonight. i actually think 12 hatch is better vs proxy 2 gate than 9 pool/overpool builds. you are constantly pumping out of two hatcheries rather than one. from my experience i win with proxy gates more often when z goes pool first build
I've been 12 hatching a lot and i rarely lose to 2 gate (could be because their micro is bad)
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On November 28 2009 18:25 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:23 FireGuyX wrote:
I hope Movie learns his lesson after this loss. He tried cheesing against Fantasy and Jaedong in the last MSL and that failed. What lesson? He cheesed Jaedong and won the first game, then cheesed Fantasy and came within one dodged EMP of winning that too when Fantasy's TvP was the best in the world. Movie can play solid and he's also a threat to cheese - it's a good combination to have.
He didn't need to though because his PvZ is outstanding. The lesson is he needs needs to know when to cheese and not to cheese. Obviously he didn't want to get into a long game with Hero, even though he's capable of beating him, and you don't cheese against someone like Hero. But than again didn't Flash use to cheese a lot earlier in his career, he hardly cheeses at all.
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
On November 28 2009 18:29 MamiyaOtaru wrote:holy fscking stick figure
lol wtf?
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On November 28 2009 18:26 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:23 Sentenal wrote:
How do you lose a proxy 2gate vs 12hatch? I swear, my head will explode if more things like this keep happening tonight. i actually think 12 hatch is better vs proxy 2 gate than 9 pool/overpool builds. you are constantly pumping out of two hatcheries rather than one. from my experience i win with proxy gates more often when z goes pool first build
9/10gate is supposed to be a counter to 12hatch, is it ? And if it was proxied, it would be even more dangerous to the zerg, I would think. If they go something like 9pool or overpool, and you proxied, you either get backstabbed, or lose your proxy.
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Alright, time to watch Canata get rolled
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
On November 28 2009 18:31 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:26 OneOther wrote:On November 28 2009 18:23 Sentenal wrote:
How do you lose a proxy 2gate vs 12hatch? I swear, my head will explode if more things like this keep happening tonight. i actually think 12 hatch is better vs proxy 2 gate than 9 pool/overpool builds. you are constantly pumping out of two hatcheries rather than one. from my experience i win with proxy gates more often when z goes pool first build 9/10gate is supposed to be a counter to 12hatch, is it ? And if it was proxied, it would be even more dangerous to the zerg, I would think. If they go something like 9pool or overpool, and you proxied, you either get backstabbed, or lose your proxy.
as long as you save your hatch and drones, you will be able to outnumber the zealots heavily
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On November 28 2009 18:31 SplashbackFerret wrote:
Alright, time to watch Canata get rolled
LOL ^^
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On November 28 2009 18:29 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:25 darktreb wrote:On November 28 2009 18:23 FireGuyX wrote:
I hope Movie learns his lesson after this loss. He tried cheesing against Fantasy and Jaedong in the last MSL and that failed. What lesson? He cheesed Jaedong and won the first game, then cheesed Fantasy and came within one dodged EMP of winning that too when Fantasy's TvP was the best in the world. Movie can play solid and he's also a threat to cheese - it's a good combination to have. He didn't need to though because his PvZ is outstanding. The lesson is he needs needs to know when to cheese and not to cheese. Obviously he didn't want to get into a long game with Hero, even though he's capable of beating him. But than again didn't Flash use to cheese a lot earlier in his career?
Yeah but it's tough because he didn't even know if he was playing Canata or hero (might have guessed Canata) and it's on a brand new map AND he had to prepare PvP for Stork as well.
All 3 matchups + new maps = very hard to prepare for. I wouldn't be surprised to see Movie cheese again in the last game (and if Canata somehow miracles a win, I'd be really surprised if Movie didn't cheese)
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I really have to go to work but I also have to see Stork advance... dilemma.
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On November 28 2009 18:32 cokencheese wrote:
I really have to go to work but I also have to see Stork advance... dilemma.
SC>Real life. Stay and watch.
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On November 28 2009 18:31 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2009 18:31 Sentenal wrote:On November 28 2009 18:26 OneOther wrote:On November 28 2009 18:23 Sentenal wrote:
How do you lose a proxy 2gate vs 12hatch? I swear, my head will explode if more things like this keep happening tonight. i actually think 12 hatch is better vs proxy 2 gate than 9 pool/overpool builds. you are constantly pumping out of two hatcheries rather than one. from my experience i win with proxy gates more often when z goes pool first build 9/10gate is supposed to be a counter to 12hatch, is it ? And if it was proxied, it would be even more dangerous to the zerg, I would think. If they go something like 9pool or overpool, and you proxied, you either get backstabbed, or lose your proxy. as long as you save your hatch and drones, you will be able to outnumber the zealots heavily
"If you go 14cc vs a 9pool, as long as you save your cc and your scvs, you will be able to overpower the zerglings"
Kind of an extreme example, but it seems that way to me. Even Liquipedia lists 9/9 and 9/10gate as a counter to 12hatch 11pool.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7997/sticka.jpg)
