In part one, we start off with the four seeds in separate groups, A through D.
Players 5 through 16 in turn randomly draw for TWO groups that they can move to, and then decide which one they want to join. The 16th player simply goes to whichever spot is left.
In part two, the four seeded players have to make a choice as well. They must decide between two privileges, "choose before," and "choose after." The first choice means they can declare before the group selection starts one specific player they wish to bring to their group, and will be able to switch that player to his group with any player of his choosing from his own group (you can choose what player to kick out of your group in place of the player you declared beforehand).
The other option is to choose a player afterwards, after players 5~16 have placed themselves into the groups. In this case, you can choose a player to join your group, but the seed holder of the group that is being taking from gets to decide which player gets swapped in return. For instance, Type-B is in Group A and wants to bring over Stork from Group B. He may do so, but Group B seedholder Fantasy gets to decide which player will be swapped in from Group A for Stork.
If a seed used to "choose before" option on player beforehand, but that player came to his group naturally, it still counts as him having exercised his privilege, and can't use the choose later option. If two seeds chose the same player, the higher seed overrides the lower seed.
The top seed (Jaedong) may choose to swap any player in his group for any player in another group, without the above restrictions.
In part one, we start off with the four seeds in separate groups, A through D.
Players 5 through 16 in turn randomly draw for TWO groups that they can move to, and then decide which one they want to join. The 16th player simply goes to whichever spot is left.
In part two, the four seeded players have to make a choice as well. They must decide between two privileges, "choose before," and "choose after." The first choice means they can declare before the group selection starts one specific player they wish to bring to their group, and will be able to switch that player to his group with any player of his choosing from his own group (you can choose what player to kick out of your group in place of the player you declared beforehand).
The other option is to choose a player afterwards, after players 5~16 have placed themselves into the groups. In this case, you can choose a player to join your group, but the seed holder of the group that is being taking from gets to decide which player gets swapped in return. For instance, Type-B is in Group A and wants to bring over Stork from Group B. He may do so, but Group B seedholder Fantasy gets to decide which player will be swapped in from Group A for Stork.
If a seed used to "choose before" option on player beforehand, but that player came to his group naturally, it still counts as him having exercised his privilege, and can't use the choose later option. If two seeds chose the same player, the higher seed overrides the lower seed.
The top seed (Jaedong) may choose to swap any player in his group for any player in another group, without the above restrictions.
so terran, protoss and 2 zergs per group will be the best and hoping that only 2, 3 or up to 4 zergs advance coz more it will be nasty, especially if 8:-))))))
On November 20 2009 00:30 dukethegold wrote: Jaedong is eyeing the Platinum Mouse!
Stork is eyeing the Silver Mouse!
Seriously, somebody make a silver mouse for 3 OSL silver medals.
Then Boxer should get one.he's got 4 OSL silver medals.
Indeed! Boxer deserves it! It's like right in Yellow's face. "Ha, I got more OSL Silver than you! I am the true King of Silver, bitch!"
Actually, a wonderful final would be Stork v.s. Fantasy, the race for the third silver. Maybe Ongamenet will make a silver mouse just for this special occasion, much like how Ongamenet made the Golden Mouse specially for Boxer when he made his third consecutive OSL final after two consecutive OSL titles...and never got it...
Just watch Stork and Fantasy trying their hardest to throw away games and bringing out their D minus-game for the final.
Anyone that takes down Jaedong will earn my respect. Not that I hate him or something in fact he is my top 5 favorite player but just give Protoss some chance!
This event is kind of stressful to photograph. I dragged two cameras and my laptop to work today. I'll try to get photo shoots like last time and hopefully they'll have dressed up decently. *Stresses out*
Groups of death are always annoying, as it means less interesting games further in because the good players are elimed early... Here's hoping for a Jaedong vs Flash final!
On November 20 2009 09:03 NeverGG wrote: This event is kind of stressful to photograph. I dragged two cameras and my laptop to work today. I'll try to get photo shoots like last time and hopefully they'll have dressed up decently. *Stresses out*
I liked the over the top formal dress they had a few seasons ago, it was an interesting crapshoot of who they could manage to look good and who just looked ridiculous. Teaser just makes it seem like it will be team uniforms tho ;/
No costumes this season. I just got confirmation. That sucks so much because 90% of the fun of the event was in the dressing up part. Boring photos will be boring.
On November 20 2009 19:23 meeple wrote: ZerO's not too dead... although you might say anyone in a group with flash or jaedong is pretty dead right now.
Not only Flash, but Yarnc and Hwasin with their good ZvZ and TvZ
On November 20 2009 19:20 ReketSomething wrote: Didn't Yellow get out of Flash's group and Type B got out of Storks group lol
both wasn't on fire at this moment. And yellow has been slumping. A lot. Tybe-b is the best zerg on hite imo. (And Stork's PvZ has improved very much lately, if ya don't believe me, watch his games in wcg finals vs Jaedong)
On November 20 2009 19:25 Holgerius wrote: Flash shouldn't have any trouble advancing. He'll trash Zero and Hwasin is autowin. Yarnc is the only person who I can see beating him.
Uh, yarnc has been slumpin pretty badly (he lost vs Boxer...)
shes not blushing, it's just that she never laughs and when she saw pure choose 2 C's it just made her giggle. and the commentators were joking how she never laughs and etc
On November 20 2009 19:25 Holgerius wrote: Flash shouldn't have any trouble advancing. He'll trash Zero and Hwasin is autowin. Yarnc is the only person who I can see beating him.
Uh, yarnc has been slumpin pretty badly (he lost vs Boxer...)
Yarnc is just one of these players that has the wood over flash, its like best, just a couple of people that no matter how flash is playing you always go like hero with bisu and free with jaedong
On November 20 2009 19:25 Holgerius wrote: Flash shouldn't have any trouble advancing. He'll trash Zero and Hwasin is autowin. Yarnc is the only person who I can see beating him.
Uh, yarnc has been slumpin pretty badly (he lost vs Boxer...)
Yarnc is just one of these players that has the wood over flash, its like best, just a couple of people that no matter how flash is playing you always go like hero with bisu and free with jaedong
Looking pretty good. I like the absence of groups of death here and on the MSL.
sick sick set of groups, all of them will have tons of good games, im loving the groups in MSL/OSL. I hope shine pulls an upset in that group, its going to be hard but its possible
On November 20 2009 20:46 Highways wrote: Group C: Fantsay could be in trouble here. Effort and Calm are red hot right now.
You are talking about FANTASY here. This guy doesn't have guts to play BoX, but in every single game against a zerg he is a clear favourite. go.go would be in trouble if he was in group C, Fantasy is ok.
On November 20 2009 20:46 Highways wrote: Apart from Jaedong, groups A and B seem quite even.
Group C: Fantsay could be in trouble here. Effort and Calm are red hot right now.
Group D: Another tough group. Possibly group of death along side C.
Fantasy can solely practise on TvZ with the help of Boxer and Oov. So it shouldn't be too bad. Only if he could work a bit on his game sense (and nerves) ... only ... if ... *sigh*
On November 20 2009 20:46 Highways wrote: Group C: Fantsay could be in trouble here. Effort and Calm are red hot right now.
You are talking about FANTASY here. This guy doesn't have guts to play BoX, but in every single game against a zerg he is a clear favourite. go.go would be in trouble if he was in group C, Fantasy is ok.
When your overall winning percentage is barely over 50%, I wouldn't say you're the favourite in every single game.
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
fantasy, Calm, Shine, EffOrt Group of Death #1. 3 Favourites and lately rising Shine (though he will not play ZvP). Although fantasy didn't play well lately i think he will not throw games off so easily. And of course his TvZ is art!
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
I understand fantasy but with kwanro and type-b flash isnt going to rape them silly? do you have logic or is this just blind fanboyism :\
YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
fantasy, Calm, Shine, EffOrt Group of Death #1. 3 Favourites and lately rising Shine (though he will not play ZvP). Although fantasy didn't play well lately i think he will not throw games off so easily. And of course his TvZ is art!
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
I understand fantasy but with kwanro and type-b flash isnt going to rape them silly? do you have logic or is this just blind fanboyism :\
Both zergs have ZvT as strongest matchup. Thinking Flash would rape them silly is more like blind fanboyism.
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
I understand fantasy but with kwanro and type-b flash isnt going to rape them silly? do you have logic or is this just blind fanboyism :\
Don't know man i know Flash is playing amazing TvZ bio right now , but its Kwanro and Type - B so expect all - in ling rushes 2 hat muta and lurker galore .
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
I understand fantasy but with kwanro and type-b flash isnt going to rape them silly? do you have logic or is this just blind fanboyism :\
Both zergs have ZvT as strongest matchup. Thinking Flash would rape them silly is more like blind fanboyism.
Lets take a look through time and space at tlpd This is his record vs Z from this season Flash's TvZ stats wow thats massive blind fanboyism
On November 20 2009 20:46 Highways wrote: Group C: Fantsay could be in trouble here. Effort and Calm are red hot right now.
You are talking about FANTASY here. This guy doesn't have guts to play BoX, but in every single game against a zerg he is a clear favourite. go.go would be in trouble if he was in group C, Fantasy is ok.
Clearly consistently deep runs in the OSL are a symptom of being unable to play BoX.
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
I understand fantasy but with kwanro and type-b flash isnt going to rape them silly? do you have logic or is this just blind fanboyism :\
Both zergs have ZvT as strongest matchup. Thinking Flash would rape them silly is more like blind fanboyism.
Lets take a look through time and space at tlpd This is his record vs Z from this season Flash's TvZ stats wow thats massive blind fanboyism
Yeah, I think that after Kwanro, Flash took a hard look at his TvZ and fixed it up.
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
I understand fantasy but with kwanro and type-b flash isnt going to rape them silly? do you have logic or is this just blind fanboyism :\
Don't forget that this was nobody else but Kwanro who eliminated Flash from previous MSL.
type-b statistics in ZvT is 63.16%
And moreover Flash has one of the best PvT'ers of all time in his group too.
Group A: I think Jaedong is going thru for sure, and while Movie is the more likely choice, Pusan could go Spirit Apeshit mode and make it, or even go.go can pull some of his gay crap and take the remaining spot.
Group B: Hwasin is facing two zergs, and with his MSL group having other 3 zergs, his practice schedule will be quite simple and he is a favorite here. Yarnc is always a menace, but ZerO has being tearing it up lately, and he is the most likely other choice. In my heart, I wish Pure would be the one accompanying Hwasin, but he is still a question mark.
Group C: This is definitey the group of death. Everyone here is top dog, even Shine, who after an embarrassing debut against Iris, has picked up his pace and has been cruising thru the PL. Fantasy has toned it down a little, but the OSL owns him another shot at the title, and this might be a first step. Not much to say about the remaining two, Calm and EffOrt, the only two zergs who represent a real threat at the moment to JD´s throne as zerg overmind.
Group D: This has a clear favorite to win it all, Flash, and another one to crush everyone except Flash, our very own silver master Stork. However, people should watch out for the other two. Kwanro is the master in senselessly bumping his head into walls, but eventaully even the thickest wall is bound to break if Kwanro hits it with his head enough times. The other one is Type-B, who is one of the most underrated zergs. Many think he is a one hit wonder, and he has a very tough test to proof himself. Personally I hope FLash and Stork make it, but Type-B shouldn´t be dismissed from the start, and even if he doesn´t make it this OSL, I´m almost sure he is going to prove wrong all those who tagged him as a fluke.
This OSL looks very promising for Jaedong: he will cruise through his group with ease and then will be playing mostly ZvZ. His two Nemesises fantasy and Flash have good chances to be burned in their groups, and Jaedong will have a clear road to another gold.
I understand fantasy but with kwanro and type-b flash isnt going to rape them silly? do you have logic or is this just blind fanboyism :\
Both zergs have ZvT as strongest matchup. Thinking Flash would rape them silly is more like blind fanboyism.
The way Flash has been playing TvZ this season, rape is to be expected. Look at the difference in his last game with Kwanro compared to their encounter last MSL. Flash TvZ is really fresh and hot as hell.
On November 20 2009 21:14 Jenia6109 wrote: YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
Clearly you don't have any idea of what you are talking about.
YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
fantasy, Calm, Shine, EffOrt Group of Death #1. 3 Favourites and lately rising Shine (though he will not play ZvP). Although fantasy didn't play well lately i think he will not throw games off so easily. And of course his TvZ is art!
Group B is hardly mediocre: Hwasin has been one of the most consistently good terrans, along with having one of the sickest bio TvZ around, and Zero is a definitely a step above the other zergs in ZvP and fairly good in ZvT. If you think Fantasy's TvZ is art, man what have you been watching - his medic marine control so poor, for a player of his level, that I'd actually be worried if he doesn't go mech or finish the game before dark swarms.
Flash will make it out of his group if he plays TvZ like he has been lately. I think Stork is the favorite over him head to head, though, unless Flash rolls out that 'new TvP style' he's been hyping up (although I think he said that's not close to being ready yet).
So I see Flash going 2-1 (wins against the Zergs, loss to Stork)....and Stork either going 3-0 or 2-1 depending on if he chokes against a Zerg. Either way, they both advance.
I can't wait, I'll be on the edge of my seat for sure.
Group A is the oddest. No one is as good as Jaedong, although Movie and go.go could each reasonably - or not unreasonably - win their games against him. Still I think JD qualifies 2-1. Of the other players, Movie seems to be the favorite (and of course Pusan is the fan favorite), but my gut instinct says go with go.go. I don't like the guy, but there you have it. Jaedong and go.go advance.
Group B gives us ZerO as the clear favorite, but I'm still unsure about his ZvT. Especially against Hwasin. I see this merry-go-round of Yarnc < Pure < Zero < Hwasin < Yarnc, leaving everybody at 1-1. In the remaining games... well, Pure should beat Hwasin if his games against Leta are anything to go by, and I think ZerO is better than Yarnc at ZvZ at the moment. ZerO and Pure advance.
Group C has fantasy against Zergs in what is (sort of) his worst matchup, but fortunately he gets only one game apiece. I think he'll beat Shine easily, lose to EffOrt, and the game against Calm could go either way. I'd say Shine should go 0-3 here despite his improvement. I'm going to say EffOrt 3-0's, and a tiebreaker between Calm and fantasy for the second spot. EffOrt and Calm advance.
Group D - Stork will lose to Kwanro. Again. Stork will beat Flash. Flash will destroy Kwanro. type-b is the determining factor here, and I really don't know what to think. Kwanro's ZvZ is unpredictable, but as badly as type-b lost to Yarnc that doesn't really mean anything. Kwanro probably wins; I'm going to say Flash and Stork do too. 3-way tiebreaker is my prediction, but not a particularly confident one. Assuming I'm right, though, Stork and Flash have better nerves. Flash and Stork advance.
Stork will roll his whole group. His PvZ has been looking good, and his PvT has always been S class. Unless Flash reveals this new build and it completely takes Stork off guard, Stork will destroy all.
Unfortunately I like many others think Flash will lose to Stork, I predict a 3 way tie of 2-1 in Group D with either Kwanro or Type-b being 0-3. Come to think of it I predict Kwanro to go 0-3.
YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
fantasy, Calm, Shine, EffOrt Group of Death #1. 3 Favourites and lately rising Shine (though he will not play ZvP). Although fantasy didn't play well lately i think he will not throw games off so easily. And of course his TvZ is art!
go.go is not an outsider by an means. In fact, as much as i hate his bm, he has a good chance of making it through. Group B is not mediocre, hwasin rapes zergs with his always-sick mnm, while zero has been doing HOT, and yarnc is an osl silver medalist. A rookie like Shine who has only been doing somewhat well recently can never be a clear favorite against players like effort and calm. fantasy's bio is pathetic. you suck at this dont you.
On November 20 2009 22:26 NguN wrote: Stork will roll his whole group. His PvZ has been looking good, and his PvT has always been S class. Unless Flash reveals this new build and it completely takes Stork off guard, Stork will destroy all.
ahh nice JD, it won't even matter if Movie somehow wins him again because he's gonna win those other two easily! JD & Movie advancing sounds about right ;p
group B looks delicious, everyone at about the same level (if yarnc can get out of his slump) recently i've liked both Zero's & Pure's play a lot!
group C there are 3 huge players and 1 up-and coming, somehow i see fantasy dropping here.
Group A: Jaedong is obvious and the rest is a 3-way coin flip. If anyone steals their game against Jaedong, they'll get out at 2-1 or so, otherwise I think this group is destined for Jaedong at 3-0 and everyone else at 1-2 into a tiebreaker. I'll hold my nose and pick go.go. Group B: I'm a ZerO fanboy so I'm obviously picking him, fortunately his play lately has justified it. Normally I'd go with YellOw[ArnC] as the second one here, but he's been playing like garbage so I'll reluctantly pick Hwasin. Group C: I've never been a fan of fantasy's TvZ, this group is a chance for him to prove himself to me. Not that he really cares. I'm going with EffOrt and Calm. Group D: This one is the toughest for me to pick. Stork and Flash are the clear theoretical favorites, but it is still swarm season, and I am still a Zerg fan, so I think one of them will fail to get it. Unfortunately, I think it will be Flash, as he probably loses to Stork and randomly loses to one of the two Zerg. I'll go with Stork and Kwanro.
YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
fantasy, Calm, Shine, EffOrt Group of Death #1. 3 Favourites and lately rising Shine (though he will not play ZvP). Although fantasy didn't play well lately i think he will not throw games off so easily. And of course his TvZ is art!
Group B is hardly mediocre: Hwasin has been one of the most consistently good terrans, along with having one of the sickest bio TvZ around, and Zero is a definitely a step above the other zergs in ZvP and fairly good in ZvT. If you think Fantasy's TvZ is art, man what have you been watching - his medic marine control so poor, for a player of his level, that I'd actually be worried if he doesn't go mech or finish the game before dark swarms.
Lol no. Besides against zergs of above average skill or lower, he is consistently average. Average players are not going to get very far. Fantasy's late game medic and marine is amazing. Watch him in pro league finals vs. Jaedong and watch him stomp Hojjea. He is the undisputed 2nd best terran out there with Leta slumping.
I hate group D so much. I am rooting for type-b and Stork. But realistically, with Flash there, only one of them is going to make it. But there is a small chance for both of them as both of them are vs T monsters. If Kwanro makes it out... I will stop following the Ever OSL.
wow, pretty unbalanced groups. groups 1&2 seem rather mediocre (jd not making it out of this group would be like... ah, screw it... thats just unthinkable..), while groups 3&4 are groups of death. im hoping for fantasy + effort and stork + flash to make it, but these groups are hard to predict.
I think fantasy at least has some marginal advantage over the others, seeing as he only has to practise one mu for the first round, also since I've liked him ever since he somewhat flukily flounced Jaedong, I pick him as my favorite for the group. The other favorites are somewhat obvious, Flash. Jaedong and ZerO. Ok ok ZerO's not so obvious, but he's just so cool...
I like these groups way better than the MSL groups, these ones seem far more interesting. Of course, that could just be due to a higher concentration of talent in each OSL group.
YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
fantasy, Calm, Shine, EffOrt Group of Death #1. 3 Favourites and lately rising Shine (though he will not play ZvP). Although fantasy didn't play well lately i think he will not throw games off so easily. And of course his TvZ is art!
Group B is hardly mediocre: Hwasin has been one of the most consistently good terrans, along with having one of the sickest bio TvZ around, and Zero is a definitely a step above the other zergs in ZvP and fairly good in ZvT. If you think Fantasy's TvZ is art, man what have you been watching - his medic marine control so poor, for a player of his level, that I'd actually be worried if he doesn't go mech or finish the game before dark swarms.
Lol no. Besides against zergs of above average skill or lower, he is consistently average. Average players are not going to get very far. Fantasy's late game medic and marine is amazing. Watch him in pro league finals vs. Jaedong and watch him stomp Hojjea. He is the undisputed 2nd best terran out there with Leta slumping.
I hate group D so much. I am rooting for type-b and Stork. But realistically, with Flash there, only one of them is going to make it. But there is a small chance for both of them as both of them are vs T monsters. If Kwanro makes it out... I will stop following the Ever OSL.
Hoejja got stomped not because of any fantastic medic marine control but because his reaction to the wraiths and drops was so pathetic that Fantasy should have won the game then; he pretty much dragged the game out so he could nuke Hoejja. One or two good bio games against Jaedong doesn't mean your SK terran is good - really if you want to drag examples out you can just look at his game against Calm on God's Garden and against Hogil on Medusa. Really disappointing performances there for any player with "amazing bio control".
(And nowhere did I say Fantasy was not a good terran because that would be a horrible lie - a terran who is not good doesn't make it to two finals.)
You have a different definition of good, because I reckon you can consider a player (Hwasin) who constantly makes it into the Ro16, no matter who is in that group (easily got through Flash AND Jaedong in the Lost Saga MSL IIRC), can be considered simply an average player.
Group A: Jaedong and Movie: Movie is going to beat Pusan simply because Movie is not a terran. Movie has shown some very competent PvT and go.go has never really proved his TvP.
B: Pure and Zero: Yarnc has been sucking bad, and Hwasin has a chance, but Zero is on a huge roll destroying everyone recently and Pure has shown epic skills in games vs Leta while Hwasin is less that 50% vs.P.
C: Effort and Fantasy: Those 2 are the favourites( not by much, but still favourites). Calm's play has never impressed me except his vs.Z but he has to be ZvZing vs Effort. Shine has some intense ZvT, but against 2 ZvZ monsters, he is in trouble.
D: Stork and Flash: but type-b is 1:0 vs. Stork from an epic game on HBR and has monster ZvT. FLash is gonna take Kwanro seriously this time so he's got no shot of beating Flash. The only match-up in which he is not the complete underdog is against type-b... but winning 1 game isnt going to do much.
On November 21 2009 00:19 Djin)ftw( wrote: omg, what a group for stork..
sigh
Why are you sad? I'm a Flash fan and I'm worried about him playing Stork. Anything can happen but Stork is a favourite against type-b and kwanro. Most likely Flash and Stork will advance and Stork is best at PvT and Flash's worst matchup is TvP.
This OSL probably won't end good for terran. Flash seems to be the only one that has a good shot at advancing. Fantasy could advance but its going to be hard to beat Effort and Calm, and Shine is also on a roll recently.
On November 20 2009 21:14 Jenia6109 wrote: YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
Oh man you have no clue what you're talking about, this is pretty funny.
On November 20 2009 22:09 LetMeShine wrote: [QGroup B is hardly mediocre: Hwasin has been one of the most consistently good terrans, along with having one of the sickest bio TvZ around, and Zero is a definitely a step above the other zergs in ZvP and fairly good in ZvT. If you think Fantasy's TvZ is art, man what have you been watching - his medic marine control so poor, for a player of his level, that I'd actually be worried if he doesn't go mech or finish the game before dark swarms.
Lol no. Besides against zergs of above average skill or lower, he is consistently average. Average players are not going to get very far. Fantasy's late game medic and marine is amazing. Watch him in pro league finals vs. Jaedong and watch him stomp Hojjea. He is the undisputed 2nd best terran out there with Leta slumping.
I hate group D so much. I am rooting for type-b and Stork. But realistically, with Flash there, only one of them is going to make it. But there is a small chance for both of them as both of them are vs T monsters. If Kwanro makes it out... I will stop following the Ever OSL.
Hoejja got stomped not because of any fantastic medic marine control but because his reaction to the wraiths and drops was so pathetic that Fantasy should have won the game then; he pretty much dragged the game out so he could nuke Hoejja. One or two good bio games against Jaedong doesn't mean your SK terran is good - really if you want to drag examples out you can just look at his game against Calm on God's Garden and against Hogil on Medusa. Really disappointing performances there for any player with "amazing bio control".
(And nowhere did I say Fantasy was not a good terran because that would be a horrible lie - a terran who is not good doesn't make it to two finals.)
You have a different definition of good, because I reckon you can consider a player (Hwasin) who constantly makes it into the Ro16, no matter who is in that group (easily got through Flash AND Jaedong in the Lost Saga MSL IIRC), can be considered simply an average player.
Here's my take on fantasy: he's a fast player, but not a "solid" one. In this he takes after Boxer far more than oov, of his two mentors. The problem with his bio terran play isn't micro: it's the macro behind it, and the mindset. Fantasy at his best works with small groups of units for terrible damage: if forced into a macro war he's on his back foot. If you give fantasy a game he can win with a control group or so (or pure strategy), he'll beat you. If you force him to play everything at once, you have an edge.
Before you go looking at stats; it's not that his macro's bad - he's a good player - easily the second-best Terran at the moment (although Sea would be making a strong argument if not for the individual leagues thing) - and you have to have macro to survive. It's just not his specialty. There's a reason he's only beaten Flash twice in games that meant anything (in 20 and 6 minutes respectively, both on Colosseum II).
This is why his particular group is bad news for him: Calm can match him goofy strategy for goofy strategy; EffOrt is probably the second-best Zerg playing at the moment and, unless Yarnc stops slumping, has the strongest ZvT around, playing on fairly macro maps. Shine is playing much better and not quite the auto-win I would have put him at two months ago.
Now I don't think fantasy will go 0-3. I expect him to go 1-2, possibly 2-1 by pulling out something ridiculous against EffOrt. I will be hugely surprised if he beats Calm, at least without another revolutionary TvZ build and/or getting the best possible map to mech on.
Are you guys on crack? fantasy's TvZ is his worst mu at 53%. That's not "art" by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, this is the worst scenario for him. He'll probably advance because Shine's ZvT, which has improved, probably won't cut it. And I'm sure he can pull out just one win versus Effort or Calm. But get off his nuts about his TvZ.
On November 21 2009 00:31 OreoBoi wrote: Flash's worst matchup is TvP.
He still wins two times out of three. It's just a statistic, I know, but it's got to count for something...
Well the thing is, Flash will stomp on any protoss that doesn't have really good PvT. However, Flash loses TvP a lot to players like Best and Stork who have S-class TvP. Not saying Flash doesn't have a chance at beating stork, but the outcome of that match is a toss up.
Movie vs JD - another wierd game with dragoons vs slow hydras Flash vs Stork - TvP at its finest Effort/Shine vs Fantasy - Fantasy's TvZ is something to look forward to. and Effort and shine are hungry for their first title Zero vs Hwasin/pure/yarnc - Does Zero have the momentum from PL to carry to the OSL? his ZvZ has always ruined his chances
Here's my take on fantasy: he's a fast player, but not a "solid" one. In this he takes after Boxer far more than oov, of his two mentors.
I was under the impression that fantasy was actually quite slow. In all of his replays, when he's coasting and there's no action - he's actually the slowest progamer I've seen by far. I don't mean this as a negative thing, in fact I find it awsesome that he can be a top player without meeting the apm "requirements" For that reason I think he's more like oov, but I feel he lacks the genius economy management that oov and Flash seem to have. Interesting observations though.
is it just me or does fantasy group remind you of what bisu would do... surround himself in a all zerg group proceed to get demolished out of the group stages in spectacular fashion
Group c is hilarious. 3 zerg (2 of which are top 3 in the world) and fantasy.
Jaedong has an easy group. I expect him to roll go.go (which is the only person who can challenge him in there) and have him completely stomp the protoss.
Imo it's good that he is avoiding the fickle ZvZ matchup here. Hopefully a lot of the other zergs get knocked out.
Can't wait for Jaedong v. Movie. It'd be pretty killer if they met on HBR again. I can't see anyone from Group B winning the whole tournament, kinda sad.
On November 21 2009 02:26 piratebay wrote: is it just me or does fantasy group remind you of what bisu would do... surround himself in a all zerg group proceed to get demolished out of the group stages in spectacular fashion
Yeah only that fantasy didnt want Calm/Effort in his group.
It looks like all my favorite players have a chance to make it out of the group stages! XD People keep ripping on group B, but ZerO and Pure are both pretty fun players to watch. I really hope we get to see some JD/Flash action this OSL (with flash coming out on top of course). I don't think many of the Terran players will make it out of their group though...sadface for loss of diversity
On November 21 2009 02:23 LunarDestiny wrote: OSL round of 16 without a group of death...
Group C looks like a group of death to me.
Calm, Fantasy and Effort are all border S/high A class players
And at least one of them will be eliminated.
Stork looks like the only one who can take a game from Flash in group D. I expect both Flash and Stork to get out of D 2-1.
Jaedong got this easy.
Group B seems to be more even in term of skill level.
Kinda sad thought i wanted Effort Calm and Fantasy to make it to the next round and i just started likeing Shine with his stomping over Bisu and all .... Well whoever makes it i would be happy .
On November 21 2009 06:21 darktreb wrote: I like how everyone forgot that just as Stork is capable of beating any Zerg on any given day, he's also fully capable of losing miserably.
I wouldn't be surprised with any of the possible results from Stork (0-3 to 3-0)
The same can be said of Flash... I still remember how hard he got owned in the last OSL ro16.
On November 21 2009 06:21 darktreb wrote: I like how everyone forgot that just as Stork is capable of beating any Zerg on any given day, he's also fully capable of losing miserably.
I wouldn't be surprised with any of the possible results from Stork (0-3 to 3-0)
The same can be said of Flash... I still remember how hard he got owned in the last OSL ro16.
Yeah but that's because FlaSh was being stubborn and wouldn't build turrets. lol
Group A:I feel a little sorry for Movie. He's going to have to put his PvT and PvP together if he wants to advance, because his sublime PvZ may not be enough against a player as great as Jaedong, who will be the group leader. That said, Movie's saving grace is that go.go has poor TvP, and that the group's fourth member, Pusan, is the weakest member of the group, by quite a lot. I think Movie squeaks by, because he'll have the practice and the confidence of playing every day in proleague, but this is not the group he wanted.
Jaedong, Movie
Group B: This group is similar to Group A, but without the big name of Jaedong. Instead, the talent is more evened out, and predicting the winner in this group with certainty is damn near impossible. The group's seed, YellOw[ArnC] has been slumping something terrible this season, and with his recent displays of futility, it's hard to see him advancing here. This is a point in ZerO's favor, because the underrated Woongjin zerg's weak ZvZ should get a pass, while his superb ZvT and ZvP will be more than a match for Hwasin and Pure. The second spot in this group will likely go to the winner between these two, but if Yellow[ArnC] plays the spoiler, he's most likely to topple the terran. Pure's play has been impressive lately, he has a slight edge for the last spot in the round of 8.
ZerO, Pure
Group C: This is it. The unquestioned group of death, is not only filled with three of the top 6 or so players in BW, but it will provide fantasy OSL TvZ action, and EffOrt and Calm facing off in ZvZ. This leaves Shine, a vastly overrated cheesy zerg, in the lurch, but all manner of things could theoretically happen here. EffOrt has an edge in ZvZ over Calm based on recent results, so I see him coming out of this group. fantasy's OSL form is too good to be denied, he should advance as well, his seed depending on his match against EffOrt. I'd give him slight odds to top this group.
fantasy, EffOrt
Group D: The last two groups are close to call, but there is only really one obvious pick for the winners of Group D. Both Flash and Stork have been in fine form lately, especially against zerg. type-b and Kwanro have respectable records in ZvP and ZvT, but both are nowhere near the big two here. If either zerg advances, it'll be a huge upset. Given Flash's current weakness in TvP, Stork is the likely first place winner here.
Here's my take on fantasy: he's a fast player, but not a "solid" one. In this he takes after Boxer far more than oov, of his two mentors.
I was under the impression that fantasy was actually quite slow. In all of his replays, when he's coasting and there's no action - he's actually the slowest progamer I've seen by far. I don't mean this as a negative thing, in fact I find it awsesome that he can be a top player without meeting the apm "requirements" For that reason I think he's more like oov, but I feel he lacks the genius economy management that oov and Flash seem to have. Interesting observations though.
I honestly don't really pay attention to APM that much; what I meant by him being a "fast" playing is that he's always pushing the game, pulling out the next tech choice, harassing, trying to be a step ahead of his opponent. The obvious contrast is Flash, who seems more content to harass a little, but sit back and build up.
YellOw[ArnC], Pure, ZerO, Hwasin Group B is the easiest group full of mediocre players. I even will not try to predict which of them will advance...
Seriously? That's an somewhat of an insult to these players skill & accomplishments.
What accomplishments -.- That is by far the easiest group Group A minus Jaedong could be easier, but the "accomplishments" of all four players in group B sums up to all of 1 silver medal. thats it.
Zero should win his group, he embarrassed Hwasin last osl, though it was holy world, but barring some sunken break zero should win, he'll also beat pure, and yarnc is zvz. Zero or Hwasin/Pure will advance, I dont see yarnc winning 2 outta 3 vs Zero/Hwasin and a good protoss, for yarncs to advance i think it would have to be a 3-0 for zero and 1-2 for everyone else.