Hoejja got stomped not because of any fantastic medic marine control but because his reaction to the wraiths and drops was so pathetic that Fantasy should have won the game then; he pretty much dragged the game out so he could nuke Hoejja. One or two good bio games against Jaedong doesn't mean your SK terran is good - really if you want to drag examples out you can just look at his game against Calm on God's Garden and against Hogil on Medusa. Really disappointing performances there for any player with "amazing bio control".

(And nowhere did I say Fantasy was not a good terran because that would be a horrible lie - a terran who is not good doesn't make it to two finals.)

You have a different definition of good, because I reckon you can consider a player (Hwasin) who constantly makes it into the Ro16, no matter who is in that group (easily got through Flash AND Jaedong in the Lost Saga MSL IIRC), can be considered simply an average player.

Here's my take on fantasy: he's a fast player, but not a "solid" one. In this he takes after Boxer far more than oov, of his two mentors. The problem with his bio terran play isn't micro: it's the macro behind it, and the mindset. Fantasy at his best works with small groups of units for terrible damage: if forced into a macro war he's on his back foot. If you give fantasy a game he can win with a control group or so (or pure strategy), he'll beat you. If you force him to play everything at once, you have an edge.

Before you go looking at stats; it's not that his macro's bad - he's a good player - easily the second-best Terran at the moment (although Sea would be making a strong argument if not for the individual leagues thing) - and you have to have macro to survive. It's just not his specialty. There's a reason he's only beaten Flash twice in games that meant anything (in 20 and 6 minutes respectively, both on Colosseum II).

This is why his particular group is bad news for him: Calm can match him goofy strategy for goofy strategy; EffOrt is probably the second-best Zerg playing at the moment and, unless Yarnc stops slumping, has the strongest ZvT around, playing on fairly macro maps. Shine is playing much better and not quite the auto-win I would have put him at two months ago.

Now I don't think fantasy will go 0-3. I expect him to go 1-2, possibly 2-1 by pulling out something ridiculous against EffOrt. I will be hugely surprised if he beats Calm, at least without another revolutionary TvZ build and/or getting the best possible map to mech on.

MountainDewJunkie

United States10341 Posts

November 20 2009 16:19 GMT

#385

Are you guys on crack? fantasy's TvZ is his worst mu at 53%. That's not "art" by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, this is the worst scenario for him. He'll probably advance because Shine's ZvT, which has improved, probably won't cut it. And I'm sure he can pull out just one win versus Effort or Calm. But get off his nuts about his TvZ.

JohnBall

Brazil1272 Posts

November 20 2009 16:21 GMT

#386

Now that I think about it fantasy going 0-3 or 1-2 is a pretty real possibility.

Too_MuchZerg

Finland2818 Posts

November 20 2009 16:24 GMT

#387

On November 20 2009 20:28 gk_ender wrote:
wcg korea is kespa sanctioned fyi

No points.

OreoBoi

Canada1639 Posts

November 20 2009 16:30 GMT

#388

On November 21 2009 00:46 Pyrthas wrote:

Show nested quote +

He still wins two times out of three. It's just a statistic, I know, but it's got to count for something...

Well the thing is, Flash will stomp on any protoss that doesn't have really good PvT. However, Flash loses TvP a lot to players like Best and Stork who have S-class TvP.
Not saying Flash doesn't have a chance at beating stork, but the outcome of that match is a toss up.

dukethegold

Canada5645 Posts

November 20 2009 16:39 GMT

#389

How did Fantasy end up in an all Zerg group? O.o

It's like the exactly same situation with Hwasin's MSL group, except the terran is on the receiving end this time.

With that said, you have to realize that 30% of Fantasy's losses to Zerg come from Jaedong, and he is 6 to 7 against Jaedong.

With that said, with Calm and Effort in his group, this is pretty scary.

chongu

Malaysia2585 Posts

November 20 2009 16:48 GMT

#390

Matches looking forward to:-

Movie vs JD - another wierd game with dragoons vs slow hydras
Flash vs Stork - TvP at its finest
Effort/Shine vs Fantasy - Fantasy's TvZ is something to look forward to. and Effort and shine are hungry for their first title
Zero vs Hwasin/pure/yarnc - Does Zero have the momentum from PL to carry to the OSL? his ZvZ has always ruined his chances

SilverskY

Korea (South)3086 Posts

November 20 2009 17:13 GMT

#391

God JD has such an easy group...

LunarDestiny

United States4177 Posts

November 20 2009 17:23 GMT

#392

OSL round of 16 without a group of death...

KP_CollectoR

United States744 Posts

November 20 2009 17:24 GMT

#393

On November 21 2009 01:18 Musoeun wrote:

Here's my take on fantasy: he's a fast player, but not a "solid" one. In this he takes after Boxer far more than oov, of his two mentors.

I was under the impression that fantasy was actually quite slow. In all of his replays, when he's coasting and there's no action - he's actually the slowest progamer I've seen by far. I don't mean this as a negative thing, in fact I find it awsesome that he can be a top player without meeting the apm "requirements" For that reason I think he's more like oov, but I feel he lacks the genius economy management that oov and Flash seem to have. Interesting observations though.

KP_CollectoR

United States744 Posts

November 20 2009 17:25 GMT

#394

On November 21 2009 02:13 SilverskY wrote:
God JD has such an easy group...

This. I mean the other three are practically groups of death, will be really interesting to see how this all plays out T_T poor Hwasin/Flash/fantasy

piratebay

United States399 Posts

November 20 2009 17:26 GMT

#395

is it just me or does fantasy group remind you of what bisu would do...
surround himself in a all zerg group
proceed to get demolished out of the group stages in spectacular fashion

On_Slaught

United States12190 Posts

November 20 2009 17:32 GMT

#396

Group c is hilarious. 3 zerg (2 of which are top 3 in the world) and fantasy.

Jaedong has an easy group. I expect him to roll go.go (which is the only person who can challenge him in there) and have him completely stomp the protoss.

Imo it's good that he is avoiding the fickle ZvZ matchup here. Hopefully a lot of the other zergs get knocked out.

sharkeyanti

United States1273 Posts

November 20 2009 17:54 GMT

#397

Can't wait for Jaedong v. Movie. It'd be pretty killer if they met on HBR again. I can't see anyone from Group B winning the whole tournament, kinda sad.

SuperArc

Austria7781 Posts

November 20 2009 17:54 GMT

#398

On November 21 2009 02:26 piratebay wrote:
is it just me or does fantasy group remind you of what bisu would do...
surround himself in a all zerg group
proceed to get demolished out of the group stages in spectacular fashion

Yeah only that fantasy didnt want Calm/Effort in his group.

Bisu however created his group himself.

dukethegold

Canada5645 Posts

November 20 2009 18:04 GMT

#399

On November 21 2009 02:23 LunarDestiny wrote:
OSL round of 16 without a group of death...

Group C looks like a group of death to me.

Calm, Fantasy and Effort are all border S/high A class players

And at least one of them will be eliminated.

Stork looks like the only one who can take a game from Flash in group D. I expect both Flash and Stork to get out of D 2-1.

Jaedong got this easy.

Group B seems to be more even in term of skill level.

Craptacular

Canada2 Posts

November 20 2009 18:07 GMT

#400

When does the Ro16 start?