• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:05
CET 13:05
KST 21:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BW General Discussion Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1587 users

[SPL] Hwaseung Oz vs KT Rolster - Page 23

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 All
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7465 Posts
October 28 2009 17:09 GMT
#441
The last time (before calm) that jaedong had a zvz downswing he was on the opposite end of the b.o game playing 9pool and overpool against 12pool/hat and 11pool/10gas and people said "He has too much faith in his micro" now he is losing on the other end of the game people are playing "He has weak micro". Right now every zerg is getting better and jaedong is trying to play the overall strongest build and that is costing him a few games.

I am glad he is on a downswing. Other zergs do deserve some credit for how much they've shrunken the gap that was comparable to oovs tvz, boxers tvz and julyzerg zvp. Good job 815 playing a 9pool against jaedong takes fucking HUUUUGE balls, HUUUUUGE.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
October 28 2009 17:19 GMT
#442
I don't understand what the problem is. ZvZ is nearly all micro. Micro to defend well. Micro to attack well. I guess it might be Jaedong having too much faith in his ability to create a opening in his opponents defensive line when he goes 9 pool. It is the same with Macro oriented builds where Jaedong is on the other end where he has to fight off opponent.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
October 28 2009 17:24 GMT
#443
I always liked it better when JD was super aggressive with his lings and would win before mutas came out, or win the second they came out. Now he just sits in his base and gives complete control to the opponent.
dekuschrub
Profile Joined May 2008
United States2069 Posts
October 28 2009 17:32 GMT
#444
JD slump thread INC
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
October 28 2009 18:19 GMT
#445
On October 29 2009 02:19 TanGeng wrote:
I don't understand what the problem is. ZvZ is nearly all micro. Micro to defend well. Micro to attack well. I guess it might be Jaedong having too much faith in his ability to create a opening in his opponents defensive line when he goes 9 pool. It is the same with Macro oriented builds where Jaedong is on the other end where he has to fight off opponent.


Micro only goes so far when you have a bunch of drones verses 6 zerglings
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
October 28 2009 18:38 GMT
#446
.......> <;; jaedong slumping?
ahaha <3
cw)minsean(ru
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
October 28 2009 19:13 GMT
#447
Well, Flash is my favorite player, and KT is my favorite team, but it's still sad to see JD lose to 815 and Hwaseung failing overall.

No Flash vs JD Ace
MamiyaOtaru
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1687 Posts
October 28 2009 19:42 GMT
#448
I traded Hwaseung away for KTF the moment Killer went out in an ace match, and it wasn't a moment too soon. I couldn't make that trade today.
vRoOk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1024 Posts
October 28 2009 20:11 GMT
#449
Dammit Jaedong is supposed to be Bonjwa.. you gotta win 4 OSLS then noone can deny you!

Instead he's getting buttfucked

Maybe its the OSL curse?
Breaking Bad
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
October 28 2009 20:25 GMT
#450
On October 29 2009 05:11 vRoOk wrote:
Dammit Jaedong is supposed to be Bonjwa.. you gotta win 4 OSLS then noone can deny you!

Instead he's getting buttfucked

Maybe its the OSL curse?

nah its the FA shit
cw)minsean(ru
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
October 28 2009 20:31 GMT
#451
On October 29 2009 01:30 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2009 00:10 lone_hydra wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you guys think that JD went for something as risky as 12 hatch on a 2 player map? Out of all the BO fails, 12 hatch vs. 9 pool is the only instant loss on a 2 player map. Any other BO, with good micro, it's more than possible to get back.

Is it because JD is lacking confidence in his muta and ling micro and is afraid to play a game without econ advantage?

Or is it because he's too cocky with his drone micro? Or is it because hes on a break and not really taking games seriously right now?


12hatch and 12pool expand, and overgas are really popular builds on HBR for ZvZ. I guess Jaedong probably thought that 815 would play kinda normal and Jaedong took the risk with the greediest build of the three. 815 guessed correctly that Jaedong would use one of those three builds and went for 9pool. Jaedong also has been using greedy builds a lot in ZvZ the past little while, so 815 probably was confident that Jaedong would use a greedy build this time too.


What do you mean he "guessed correctly" that Jaedong would use one of those three builds? Doesn't 9 pool lose to Overgas AND 12 Pool? He must have guessed/hoped/believed correctly that JD would 12 Hatch because otherwise he's behind....
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
October 28 2009 21:04 GMT
#452
On October 29 2009 05:31 darktreb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2009 01:30 koreasilver wrote:
On October 29 2009 00:10 lone_hydra wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you guys think that JD went for something as risky as 12 hatch on a 2 player map? Out of all the BO fails, 12 hatch vs. 9 pool is the only instant loss on a 2 player map. Any other BO, with good micro, it's more than possible to get back.

Is it because JD is lacking confidence in his muta and ling micro and is afraid to play a game without econ advantage?

Or is it because he's too cocky with his drone micro? Or is it because hes on a break and not really taking games seriously right now?


12hatch and 12pool expand, and overgas are really popular builds on HBR for ZvZ. I guess Jaedong probably thought that 815 would play kinda normal and Jaedong took the risk with the greediest build of the three. 815 guessed correctly that Jaedong would use one of those three builds and went for 9pool. Jaedong also has been using greedy builds a lot in ZvZ the past little while, so 815 probably was confident that Jaedong would use a greedy build this time too.


What do you mean he "guessed correctly" that Jaedong would use one of those three builds? Doesn't 9 pool lose to Overgas AND 12 Pool? He must have guessed/hoped/believed correctly that JD would 12 Hatch because otherwise he's behind....

9pool lair isn't so bad vs overgas if you morph larva to scourge when spire pops and park them outside his hatching muta eggs or kill as many ovies as possible before his spire pops to at least slow him down. You'll also prob get to expand before the other zerg too. When you 9speed vs overgas, you kind of hope to have whored drones a bit too much and didn't save larva for lings which is pretty common with people who overgas. They are going to be relying on sunk Plus, on 2p maps, it's very possible to hide lings from scouting overlord and just destroy them then.

(http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/28868_Jaedong_vs_Kwanro)
Also, 9pool lair can run over 12pool expand builds if the zerg does not turtle correctly ie places a spore wrong or makes sunks too late.
( http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/28869_Jaedong_vs_Kwanro
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/27025_Calm_vs_Jaedong)
And 9pool speed is amazing against 12pool expand builds and puts the person who 12pooled in hard position as he either has to pull drones or cancel nat hat. Then, the person who went speed first can just abuse timing where he has speed and other doesn't.
(See http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/27582_EffOrt_vs_FireFist
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/24072_EffOrt_vs_Jaedong
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/27030_Calm_vs_Jaedong)
Moderator。◕‿◕。
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
October 28 2009 21:31 GMT
#453
On October 29 2009 05:25 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2009 05:11 vRoOk wrote:
Dammit Jaedong is supposed to be Bonjwa.. you gotta win 4 OSLS then noone can deny you!

Instead he's getting buttfucked

Maybe its the OSL curse?

nah its the FA shit

He's already won as much as savior did over a similar time scale, while doing infinitely better in the ever more important proleague than the maestro ever did, what do people demand?
Imo he could lose every game for the rest of his career from this point and still be top three most accomplished bw player ever.
"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
October 28 2009 23:24 GMT
#454
lol 3-0...
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Prev 1 21 22 23 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group A
WardiTV95
LiquipediaDiscussion
Kung Fu Cup
12:00
2025 Monthly #3: Day 3
GuMiho vs MaNaLIVE!
herO vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs TBD
RotterdaM4
SteadfastSC2
Liquipedia
RSL Revival
10:00
Group B
Creator vs TriGGeR
Cure vs TBD
Crank 1014
Tasteless555
ComeBackTV 554
IndyStarCraft 122
Rex96
3DClanTV 63
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1002
Tasteless 555
Harstem 137
IndyStarCraft 116
Rex 96
Lowko79
SteadfastSC 2
RotterdaM 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23803
Sea 18026
Calm 5359
Rain 3940
Jaedong 2506
Bisu 1771
Horang2 1218
Flash 847
firebathero 457
Pusan 415
[ Show more ]
Zeus 209
Hyun 178
JYJ76
Soulkey 68
Rush 68
sSak 64
hero 62
Backho 62
ToSsGirL 48
Mind 46
JulyZerg 41
Killer 39
Sea.KH 38
Barracks 35
Free 29
Movie 20
Bale 14
Hm[arnc] 9
Icarus 7
Noble 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe122
resolut1ontv 83
Dendi24
Counter-Strike
fl0m2210
shoxiejesuss343
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King52
Other Games
summit1g17028
FrodaN3156
B2W.Neo938
ceh9424
crisheroes391
Pyrionflax279
Fuzer 162
KnowMe159
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick519
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota222
League of Legends
• Stunt1293
Other Games
• WagamamaTV277
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
21h 55m
RSL Revival
21h 55m
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
23h 55m
Cure vs Reynor
IPSL
1d 4h
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
1d 7h
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 21h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 23h
BSL 21
2 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL: GosuLeague
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL: GosuLeague
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.