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On October 26 2009 00:34 On_Slaught wrote:
Flash is in top form, but the rest of his team is probably worse than the rest of Jaedongs team. What a shame.
You obviously did not see the Oz vs T1 game. Perfectman is one of the most overrated protoss out there, Killer is now like 1-3 in proleague play.
Luxury>Oz Non JD zergs, this is not debatable.
Violet>Backho unless he randomly turns on S-class skill, which is like one game out of 10
Flash Luxury Violet is a very solid lineup, Jaedong Backho/Perfectman Lomo/Hiya is a laughable one.
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lux loves zvz, cuz he thinks he doesnt have to train for it.
but stork was right, zergs stepped up a whole lot the last few months... only lux thinks he can still keep up with the by just "doing his thing" without any training...
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On October 26 2009 05:30 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2009 00:34 On_Slaught wrote:
Flash is in top form, but the rest of his team is probably worse than the rest of Jaedongs team. What a shame. You obviously did not see the Oz vs T1 game. Perfectman is one of the most overrated protoss out there, Killer is now like 1-3 in proleague play. Luxury>Oz Non JD zergs, this is not debatable. Violet>Backho unless he randomly turns on S-class skill, which is like one game out of 10 Flash Luxury Violet is a very solid lineup, Jaedong Backho/Perfectman Lomo/Hiya is a laughable one.
Perfectman was so popular only because of that win against Iris where he pulled off some very good shuttle/reaver micro. It was when he moved from the unknown to the spotlight. Though when people expected the most from him, he failed to deliver (SPL grand finals, today's match). Can't really blame him anyway, because in both occasions his opponent was the best Protoss in the world.
Back on topic, Oz's non-Jaedongs are obviously much worse than Violet/Luxury. I place Stats in the same category with Perfectman, he's been doing fairly well recently though he needs to prove it with time. Violet is no doubt much more consistent than Backho. And saying Luxury is worse than the like of Killer just because he lost to Effort (a top 3 zerg) today is nonsensical.
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On October 26 2009 00:34 On_Slaught wrote:
Flash is in top form, but the rest of his team is probably worse than the rest of Jaedongs team. What a shame.
Not true, hence why kt is 4-1
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Last season this was somewhat true, since Luxury and Forgg kept failing.
With Luxury back on form and a few of their bench (that they never played at all last season) showing potential, KT is a better team right now.
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People are talking about how with Lux back on form KT is so strong, but what about Hiya?
He had been destroying dragons left and right back when they were still strong. When Hiya and JD are back on form Oz is clearly better than KT.
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On October 26 2009 06:52 SuperArc wrote:
People are talking about how with Lux back on form KT is so strong, but what about Hiya?
He had been destroying dragons left and right back when they were still strong. When Hiya and JD are back on form Oz is clearly better than KT.
I guess we'll see how clear it really is later this week.
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On October 26 2009 06:52 SuperArc wrote:
People are talking about how with Lux back on form KT is so strong, but what about Hiya?
He had been destroying dragons left and right back when they were still strong. When Hiya and JD are back on form Oz is clearly better than KT.
Top shape Lux is so much better than top shape Hiya I don't even see how that can be debated
Even when he was playing well it was Hiya's TvP that was carrying him when P was doing well everywhere - that's really not that relevant nowadays when each team is trying to figure out where to hide their Protoss player (or on Heartbreak which is a TvP nightmare).
Also Stats has already done way more than Perfectman, who has basically won one big game total. Stats has already made a league (beating two OSL semifinalists Fantasy and type-b in the process). Not to mention Violet....
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Difference being, Jaedong doesn't have to play OSL qualifiers the same day, thus making him a more prepared top play than the poorly scheduled Flash.
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We all hope that KTF will take it in 4...
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United States2186 Posts
This isn't even close:
From 08-09 proleague
Oz without Jaedong -
80-82 -2
KT without Flash -
72-104 -32
It's really amazing how such erroneous misconceptions can be made. Just how is Jaedong a one man team? Yes Oz's non-Jaedong players collectively slumped to some degree in rounds 4 and 5 but they were the reason that Oz was so far ahead of everyone with their strong performances in rounds 1, 2, and 3.
KT does have *slightly* better overall Ace potential though, as Flash performed better (9-5) than Jaedong (6-4), and Oz's only other Ace player was ForGG (1-0?) who is now on KT (0-1 there I believe?). But Luxury's poor ace performance (1-2) doesn't really help much either. So Flash is better at Jaedong at Ace matches (though performed worse in WL playoffs) but his support is terrible. Hiya did decently at 2-1 here.
Judging right now you can't say anything as there's only been what 4-5? games played. In those games both teams have played varying levels of opponents (KT has beaten up on some really easy pickings then lost to a solid CJ, Oz has had a more mixed field).
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United States7805 Posts
How could anyone think OZ has a better lineup than KT at this point? Sounds like Oz fans are mad they got nuked by SKT.
Using 08-09 statistics is deceptive also as rounds 1/2 (3?) were Luxuryless and ForGG didn't come until round 4 WLPlayoffs against OZ + the rest of KT didn't even start preforming until round 4. Hoejja/Violet/Firefist/Stats are all barely starting to preform AND I would take 815/Tempest/Sair over a random Oz B teamer all day everyday. I think most people would.
Also Lux > Hiya
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No, I would not take Sair over anyone. Sair can go right straight to hell for toying with my KT emotions time and again, pretending he was good sometimes and then sucking horribly every other time.
THE BACKHO OF TERRANS.
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Backho has no compare >=[
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United States7805 Posts
I stand by Sair > random Oz b teamer. It's not like I'm saying he's better than Backho or anything. Sair is just another option in KTs deep playable lineup
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KT's lineup is deep and playable in so much as theory is concerned. We all saw how that turned out for CJ E(ffort)ntus vs Khan or Khan vs STX. Sure, if KT didn't fail every other game, they'd be the strongest team ever.
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On October 26 2009 08:40 Vasoline73 wrote:
How could anyone think OZ has a better lineup than KT at this point? Sounds like Oz fans are mad they got nuked by SKT.
Using 08-09 statistics is deceptive also as rounds 1/2 (3?) were Luxuryless and ForGG didn't come until round 4 WLPlayoffs against OZ + the rest of KT didn't even start preforming until round 4. Hoejja/Violet/Firefist/Stats are all barely starting to preform AND I would take 815/Tempest/Sair over a random Oz B teamer all day everyday. I think most people would.
Also Lux > Hiya
Both of which played absolutely awful until very very recently.
Well ForGG is still mediocre, Luxury is actually starting to win some of his games again... in PL... a shock in and of itself.
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KT has always been one of the best teams on paper, they have 2 msl champs lux and forgg, and of course flash. However, its rare to see anyone on the team not including flash performing anywhere close to their potential, hence I wouldn't be surprised if Oz does better without JD compared to flash.
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I think that Jaedong/hiya/backho is probably comparable to Flash/Violet/Luxury. It's just that KT has much better options after that, while Oz starts to rely on... perfectman and killer. Firefist, 815, Sair, Tempest are all decent players. Forgg is terrible.
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EPT
