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[Q] Mechanics or Strategy First?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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1 2 3 4 Next All
Hundredth
Profile Joined November 2008
United Kingdom142 Posts
July 25 2009 17:08 GMT
#1
So being a D/D+ Zerg I've been wondering/asking which area I should be focusing in to improve in the fastest way and although I know this thread's going to be pretty inconclusive (people who focus on strategy will say.. strategy and vice versa) I thought it'd be helpful to know the reasons behind each.

At my level what would you recommend I should be focusing on - mechanics or strategy? By mechanics I mean mass gaming while consciously working on a certain mechanic and strategy watching replays and comparing the higher level play to your own.

JoMal
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Trinidad/Tobago1177 Posts
July 25 2009 17:10 GMT
#2
When your mechanics are good, you can execute any strategy.
Oh you mad cause i'm stylin on you
trickser
Profile Joined October 2006
Germany139 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-25 17:17:02
July 25 2009 17:14 GMT
#3
I think you should focus on mechanics. On D/D+ Level one solid build with good mechanics can beat almoast anything that is executed with bad mechanics.

So for example for zvp you can play
9overpool speed into 3hatch scourge into 5 hatch hyds, and just practise getting the timing right, not having larva overflow, not missing overloards and microing big amounts of hydras.
Since this build is really robust and gives you alot of map control and gets scouting done easily you dont have to worry about strategy too much.

Same for zvt and zvz. Choose a very solid buildorder and just practise your micro, macro, timing and multitasking.
Heart Catch Pre-Cure. Saa Mina De! Heart Catch Pre-Cure Hanasaka Seyo!
][-][eretic
Profile Joined March 2004
Canada395 Posts
July 25 2009 17:19 GMT
#4
On July 26 2009 02:10 JoMal wrote:
When your mechanics are good, you can execute any strategy.


More or less, right. Without the proper mechanics, even a superior tactic will fall to a player who can execute a worse strategy at a much higher level. I believe Day[9] speaks about this in his Podcasts. You can find his Podcast thread in the Strategy forum, I strongly suggest listening to them, as most of it deals with non-race specific details that can benefit anyone regardless of skill.
Hi :)
Batibot
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines348 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-25 17:23:40
July 25 2009 17:20 GMT
#5
I guess you'll develop it all at the same time. Read guides and try to take in what you can. It's better if you get someone to teach/tutor you. I mean to do builds for you like you're studying how to react to non-"standard" play each day. Because it'd be useless to have the mechanics to use a BO if you don't know what is it for. What does it do, what build counters it? It counters what build?

Imo, you just have to practice first fighting "standard" with "standard" but, there are so many "standards" that you should know how to react to each of them. Therefore, you should rather practice one build order (that would improve your mechanics and strategy at the same time), you should know how to react to what he does. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that:

Strategy first. Know first the ins and outs one "standard" play for one matchup then, you'll be able to map out the game in that MU. You have to know why you're doing it not just because the pros do it. When you know what you're gonna do, you can carry it out short of perfect and that's why you mass games then to perform it like a robot.
Jaedong has to be a Bonjwa. Tired of of rooting for July.
coltrane
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Chile988 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-25 17:57:03
July 25 2009 17:56 GMT
#6
you need to play and have experience to learn strategy


I think the best starting point is stick into standard build orders and work in your mechanics. Work hard in your hotkey usage and in your macro.

I suggest you to play 12 pool every match with D ppl and look all of your games with the bwchart. Try to get the best timings on the build order, discover and solve it. You will lose to better strategy much, but you will learn. Then start adding build orders and focus always on mechanics
Jävla skit
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
July 25 2009 18:00 GMT
#7
Mechanics first, this is the basic building block of SC, you have to know how to keep money low while at the same time having large income. Get units, buildings, all while microeing and keeping tabs on your opponent. Micro macro get good at both and then you will be able to use any build orders really because its just timing and different supply that you have to worry about.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
MiniRoman
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
Canada3953 Posts
July 25 2009 18:02 GMT
#8
Just make sure to always watch your own reps. Sometimes it's painful but you can gain a lot of insight of why things happened. I would say practice a couple builds you like and hammer them out. Strategy and mechanics are always tied together.
Nak Allstar.
Iaaan
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada578 Posts
July 25 2009 18:21 GMT
#9
Mechanics. I've been beaten many times by people with extremely bad strategies, but then they still manage to win with superior micro/macro. Like, get a general sense of what to do in each matchup, but then from there your mechanics will win you more games at the D level then a precise strategy.
pangshai
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Chinatown5333 Posts
July 25 2009 18:33 GMT
#10
I'm not sure what "strategy" entails, but I think working on your mechanics first is always the way to go. If your mechanics suck, it doesn't matter if you have decent strategy. Lets take an extreme example, you opening 2 hatch mutas, and your terran opens with drop that fails cause your mutas rape it. You then proceed to fly your mutas into his main, and do a fuck lot of damage, taking out SCVs and marines, but he eventually stops the harass with vessels. Back at your base, you're still on 2 hatch, and you've built up a surplus of 4K minerals on just 20 mining drones.

I'm teaching a bunch of my irl friends to play SC, and I tell them that a good build vs protoss as zerg is 3 hatch lair --> spire --> 5 hatch hydra, which was the standard a while back. So reviewing that opening/strategy, spire = scourge = prevent sair harass, then macro up on drones, while adding 2 hatcheries and getting hydra upgrades and lots of hydras to stop the toss 3rd. My friends all have that basic understanding, but every game they try to do it, they end up with 2 groups of hydras 15 minutes into the game with 5K minerals on 3 base.
#1 midas fan
x89titan
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Philippines1130 Posts
July 25 2009 18:56 GMT
#11
learn the strategy. mechanics will come as u learn it.

example:
strategy: i have to get 3 groups of zealots to attack at one time while storm dropping.
solution: group zealots and dropship and templar quickly ctrl + 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....1a2a3a zealots into nat, 4u dropship into mineral line, 5t on workers
Heaven came down and glory filled my soul, when at the cross the Savior made me whole
unknown.sam
Profile Joined May 2007
Philippines2701 Posts
July 25 2009 19:07 GMT
#12
mechanics for sure
at d level, i believe good mechanics will win you a lot of games
"Thanks for the kind words, but if SS is the most interesting book you've ever read, you must have just started reading a couple of weeks ago." - Mark Rippetoe
Gogleion
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States534 Posts
July 25 2009 19:11 GMT
#13
In my opinion, it would be best to work on one for a while and then switch around so you have a leap frogging situation because they benefit each other, and it would be unwise to bottleneck strategy over mechanics or vice versa.
EffOrt. That is all.
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
July 25 2009 19:32 GMT
#14
IMO you learn mechanics from playing, and strategy from watching. So more likely than not you'll be learning both, but you need strong mechanics more than strong strategy to win on iccup.
gjg.instinct
Profile Joined May 2009
144 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-25 20:43:44
July 25 2009 19:55 GMT
#15
Both require the other to win. This is kind of like asking "learn to walk with my left leg or right leg first?" Having said that, mechanics will probably require more practice and time to master.

I think a lot of decent-expert level players would remark that mechanics are more important and it's "how the koreans win" etc. etc. I agree in that having solid mechanics is a deeper and higher aspiration in the game.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-25 20:19:06
July 25 2009 19:59 GMT
#16
Strategy. Your mechanics will improve automatically as you practice strategies and get better and better. You'll also win a lot more.

If there's one specific mechanic that is giving you trouble you can work really hard to fix it and then go back to strategy, but don't just focus on mechanics or you'll become a very bad and boring player. What I mean by a specific mechanic, is something like muta micro, or muta vs scourge, or M&M vs lurkers. If you have trouble with those, you NEED to learn them on your own so that during a game you can be confident when the situation calls for it. But basic things like macro and general unit control should come naturally.

EDIT: Let me also just add this: At its very root, StarCraft is a game of risk, greed, and punishment. No amount of mechanics can ever overcome that. At the D levels, many players complain about being cheesed, but that's not what's happening. What's happening is that they're not scouting, and they're being punished for it. They're getting frustrated because although the guy that cheesed them had 100 apm and much worse mechanics, he still won, somehow 'unfairly.' If you don't want to be another one of those fairy boys who whines when they get outwitted, learn strategy over mechanics. Learn to punish players who don't scout, who don't build enough cannons, who don't prepare for what you can do. That doesn't mean 4pool every game... That's not strategy. It means if you see 3 cannons and he doesn't have a scout outside his base, go all in lings and rape his shit. There's no reason to play some 'standard' 3 hatch muta build when you know you will win if you just act now.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
July 25 2009 20:08 GMT
#17
Starcraft is about both. If you feel like mechanics is your weakness, then focus on that. If you feel like strategy is your weakness (most people don't realize when their strategy is bad, but in general, if your builds are bad, if your timing is always off, if your opponents are always predicting what you do, then your strategy is bad), then focus on that. And if both suck and you can't tell which one is worse, then either mass game until they get good or quit.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
July 25 2009 20:16 GMT
#18
i'd say practice one normal build for each MU (like 3h-spire into 5h-hydra, 2h-muta), untill you are doing it almost perfectly. The different situations you will face will teach you quite a lot, you will eventually improve your micro and macra, you will learn to react to scouting info.
Remember, if you lose it was probably because:
1. You didn't macro well. did not have enough drones or hatches.
2. You screwed up your build
3. Did not react to scouting info properly, or did not scout properly
4. Your opponent is actually 2 ranks higher than you...

At least 30% of your losses come from point 4., if you have the stamina to keep playing and you focus on the first 3 points, you will improve.

Also practice muta with UMS. It helps. Even if you practice only as warmup befor iccup game. It's good, cuz you use your mtuas in every MU.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
July 25 2009 20:19 GMT
#19
On July 26 2009 02:10 JoMal wrote:
When your mechanics are good, you can execute any strategy.

If only your mechanics are good, you will execute the same strategy you copied from a replay despite what you are scouting, then get run over by noobs who don't play exactly how you are used to.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9110 Posts
July 25 2009 20:21 GMT
#20
imo strategy comes first, you can't really have mechanics without having strategy. First you have to learn what you should be doing, then once you know what you should do you work on improving your mechanics so you can pull off the sick multi-tasking and perfect macro while microing your harassment.
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