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Hi guys. I'm a Warcraft 3 player (cue boos) and I'm looking to play a bit of Starcraft to improve my macro/multitasking and just have a bit of fun. I have chosen Terran, although I might change if I don't like it, and have started an account on iccup.
I've watched a fair few replays and VODs so I have a vague idea about general strategy, but about the practical side I have no idea. So if you fine people are good enough to help me, I'd like to ask a few questions as I run into problems.
So my first question is this; I have a lot of trouble getting vultures to place mines. It seems that the pathing is a bit weird and makes it take longer than I'd expect, and sometimes nothing happens at all. Are there any tricks I can use to make it more reliable?
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Take like 2-3 vultures at a time. Has to do with magic boxes. Welcome to sc!
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uh, move first and then place before they stop. It will take a while to plant-that's part of the game.
Oh yeah, I played warcraft once-you stop making workers after a while, lol. This is not the case with starcraft. You never stop making workers until you are maxed out.
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Does anyone know why vultures sometimes don't place mines at first, but then when you move them once they can? Kind of strange to me 0.o
Playing starcraft to train for wc3.... whatever floats your boat.
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Vatican City State12 Posts
Don't select too many at a time and then click a spot, because they'll all go there and get confused. Vults move backwards from the opposite direction they were facing when you laid them, so use that to not take too long. Spamming a direction as they lay can make them get away faster. You need to click quickly on small groups and click different areas to get them to all lay the mines quickly, or you can just hotkey 2-3 in a couple hotkeys and do it that way. With large numbers of vults you can also click on the minimap after selecting lay mine but I don't like that method.
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Grab your Vultures, send them all to mine up one spot, then while they're moving there quickly grab a few (2-4) and mine some where else. Repeat with another bunch of Vultures until you have a nice minefield 
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OK. I've played a few games and am an uninspiring 4-13 
I'm playing so poorly I don't really know what to ask, so if I could get some advice on this replay, it would be a great help.
http://rapidshare.com/files/106657749/0017_pSiiZprA6tP_FennethT.rep.html
I know I am making too many mistakes to count, but if anyone could point out the biggest flaws that I should work on first, that would be great.
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Yeah, search magic box; basically, you make a small box where 3-5 vultures fit and they will mine with ease.
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Your macro was really poor. Alot of idle workers and not of enough of them; try working on your management a bit. Four factories wouldn't cut it. You need like 50. ALso don't move out with such a little army and get raped. As terran, set up a good defence with siege and mines until u have a big enough army. But from what i see in the replay, you're at the stage were you're not used to the feel and timing of the game yet. Just mass games until you get the hang of it.
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I didn't think you did that bad, it was cool that you actually were making an attempt at harassing. Now I'm not a great Terran player by any means but here are a few things that I picked up. Someone correct me if I'm wrong:
- Be a bit more aggressive with your Vultures against low Dragoon numbers. There were a few times where I was thinking "Man, these goons are going to get mine surrounded" and you just ran your vults away. Laying mines around goons can take some practice but I think it's something that could have really helped you. I thought your micro was pretty nice at times so I think you could definitely handle it. Next time you see 4-5 goons against 8-9 vults, try going for it and just laying mines as quickly as you can circling the goons. Take a look at some Boxer/Nada highlight vids and I'm sure you'll see plenty of examples if you're not sure what I'm talking about.
- HT drops really hurt you when you were already behind in eco. Multitasking and getting used to watching the mini map religiously can take some getting used to but there are a few tricks to noticing drops a bit sooner. A lot of people switch team colors so all your units are green and all enemy units are red. Red dots seem to stand out much quicker on the minimap. I think the hotkey is Alt+A to cycle team color modes, I forget though. Also, you could try building depots at the very edges of your base to act as spotters. Will give you an extra second or two to notice drops. Lastly, you can try laying some mines where they usually drop like behind your min line. This can backfire if they drop right in your min line and the mine follows them into the scvs though.
- I'm fairly sure bahhh was exaggerating when he said you need 50 facs, no one needs that unless you're playing BGH or something. Your BO does need some work though. You were fine up until the second fac you built. When you go 2 fac and your Protoss opponent is going for a fairly quick expansion you really need to do some damage with your 2 fac build otherwise you end up behind eco wise like in this game. You're sacrificing an early expansion (better eco) for more units early (more firepower) so make sure you use this advantage or you'll be getting nothing and they are getting ahead. Transitioning into early mid game, I see 2 common choices of build. 4 fac or 6 fac. If you go 4 fac then that generally means you intend to take a quick 3rd expansion (your mineral only most likely on Longinus). If you go 6 fac that means you intend to stay on 2 bases (your main and natural expansion) and go for a timing push to crush the Protoss's inevitable 3rd expansion with superior numbers. You didn't really commit to either strat. You went 4 fac which means you will have less units but didn't use the saved resources to get that 3rd base to give you the eco boost needed to stay in the game. You instead started queuing up 2 units per fac which you should try to avoid if you can, especially earlier in the game.
So in closing it would be my guess that you're starting to copy build orders (which is good) but aren't quite sure why you're using which (which is bad). I would suggest reading over Daze's Terran guide which is a bit outdated but still largely relevant. Also, consider watching some of Ascension which is top foreign pros being commentated in English by Artosis (good T player) and Gentho. You could probably pick up a few tips from that:
http://www.mediaesports.com/tv/ascension/
I hope my suggestions are useful and accurate.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 12 2008 02:02 Phyre wrote:
A lot of people switch team colors so all your units are green and all enemy units are red. Red dots seem to stand out much quicker on the minimap. I think the hotkey is Alt+A to cycle team color modes, I forget though.
It's shift-tab. Press it once to change your enemy's minimap color to red; press it again to change your ingame unit colors to teal and your enemy's to red; press it again to revert to all normal.
I also concur with the habit of building supply depots around the edges of your base.
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On April 12 2008 02:04 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2008 02:02 Phyre wrote:
A lot of people switch team colors so all your units are green and all enemy units are red. Red dots seem to stand out much quicker on the minimap. I think the hotkey is Alt+A to cycle team color modes, I forget though.
It's shift-tab. Press it once to change your enemy's minimap color to red; press it again to change your ingame unit colors to teal and your enemy's to red; press it again to revert to all normal. I also concur with the habit of building supply depots around the edges of your base.
Oops. I think it's Alt+A in WC3 actually. Thanks for the correction.
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On April 12 2008 00:11 Fenneth wrote:OK. I've played a few games and am an uninspiring 4-13 I'm playing so poorly I don't really know what to ask, so if I could get some advice on this replay, it would be a great help. http://rapidshare.com/files/106657749/0017_pSiiZprA6tP_FennethT.rep.htmlI know I am making too many mistakes to count, but if anyone could point out the biggest flaws that I should work on first, that would be great.
Don't worry, ur doing much better than my Terran T.T
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On April 12 2008 00:11 Fenneth wrote:OK. I've played a few games and am an uninspiring 4-13 I'm playing so poorly I don't really know what to ask, so if I could get some advice on this replay, it would be a great help. http://rapidshare.com/files/106657749/0017_pSiiZprA6tP_FennethT.rep.htmlI know I am making too many mistakes to count, but if anyone could point out the biggest flaws that I should work on first, that would be great.
You got really owned in the start, the P got away with 13 nex and still killed some of your units and took mining-time away from you with those early zeals.
You have to pressure him a lot more in the start, and also expand earlier yourself to keep up with your opponents macro.
Then harass and scout a lot more and lay mines around the map, there's always something walking through them.
Also remember to constantly build scvs from your cc's, you did this better then most noobs though.
Also when you know you are behind, don't move out with an inferior army. Harass, expand and collect units.
But gj overall, keep playing!
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give the man some vulture micro maps.
In fact give him an entire map pack for micro and macro UMS maps. That TvP macro map is hard.
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On April 13 2008 15:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
give the man some vulture micro maps.
In fact give him an entire map pack for micro and macro UMS maps. That TvP macro map is hard.
o.O what TvP macro map?
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It's Alt + A in war3 ya. Thanks for that shift tab thing, been looking forever for it!
One of the biggest things you should learn (as I have in the last few weeks) is Macroing and the maps. Most of the strats are standard in the start and then it's no where close to war3, everything can change. People cancel buildings and take expansions.
I presume you were playing human in war3? Terran is a lot of micro and while I play them better, Toss is <3.
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HELLo fellow Australian! I also play terran
here, I made a small mine-laying vod a while ago
http://www.rhettius.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=308
its half way down or so
message me "qet" on euro if you want to play one day
iccup games are a good idea: try to host, and boot anyone who isnt D (with a few losses at least) or D-. you will get some quality games
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On April 13 2008 15:40 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2008 15:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
give the man some vulture micro maps.
In fact give him an entire map pack for micro and macro UMS maps. That TvP macro map is hard. o.O what TvP macro map?
AFAIK it's just a map with tons of Factories and you gotta push your way though hordes of Protoss units that charge to you and you gotta macro and fight perfectly to break into the Protoss base and kill their Stargate (main building to kill iirc)
It's probably this, if there's another better one then I will die of happiness
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Kau
Canada3502 Posts
I have that map. If people want it I can upload it when I get home.
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EPT
