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Are infestors or ultralisks useful in ZvZ?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
SiarX
Profile Joined December 2021
102 Posts
December 27 2021 07:59 GMT
#1
Plague looks like it could be devastating in theory... does it work in practice?

Do ultralisks have a use?
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7985 Posts
December 27 2021 08:17 GMT
#2
There are no infestors in Broodwar. If you think of defilers instead, yes, they are useful in late ZvZ and I remember the trend was to build two defiler mounds. You can check some games of ex pro player Great to see.
Usually the ZvZ games end before ultralisk, so I don't think they are usefull in pro / top amateur games.
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Return
Profile Joined June 2005
Ivory Coast856 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-27 14:10:27
December 27 2021 12:54 GMT
#3
Ultralisks cost a lot and zvz is most of the time very low eco, even in late late game scenarios. And another issue with ultras is that die to spawn broodling
Diiiscoo-oh, thats where the happy people go!
SiarX
Profile Joined December 2021
102 Posts
December 27 2021 15:49 GMT
#4
Ah, misprinted - defilers of course.
aokces
Profile Joined October 2006
United States309 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-27 19:17:42
December 27 2021 19:14 GMT
#5
Plague absolutely wrecks in any matchup and has great casting range too, Absolutely decimates Bio Balls, clumped mech, air, everything protoss that's not archons. it just requires a lot of dedicated to micro to have ur defilers around, protected, and full of mana.
Ultralisks are tanky, especially vs marines. But need zergling support to do dps, they're great in open areas but in chokepoints they will just run around and get slaughtered by splash damage. Great late game option if you have the 4 gases to support them.

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Ultralisk

Plagued marines vs Irradiated Ultralisks are also hilarious.
SiarX
Profile Joined December 2021
102 Posts
December 27 2021 21:45 GMT
#6
On December 28 2021 04:14 aokces wrote:
Plague absolutely wrecks in any matchup and has great casting range too, Absolutely decimates Bio Balls, clumped mech, air, everything protoss that's not archons. it just requires a lot of dedicated to micro to have ur defilers around, protected, and full of mana.
Ultralisks are tanky, especially vs marines. But need zergling support to do dps, they're great in open areas but in chokepoints they will just run around and get slaughtered by splash damage. Great late game option if you have the 4 gases to support them.

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Ultralisk

Plagued marines vs Irradiated Ultralisks are also hilarious.


I know but I was talking about ZvZ
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10129 Posts
December 27 2021 21:50 GMT
#7
Both are sometimes used in late game ZvZ. Plague on Mutalisks/Devourers is strong. Ultras can help soak damage for Zerglings, as they do in other MUs, and help bust positions that are defended by Lurker/Sunk/Defiler. However, these are very rare situations to be in.

Add yet another "Yes" to your growing list of "Does x unit get used?" threads.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7985 Posts
December 28 2021 09:30 GMT
#8
Please watch these games:

Jaedong vs Yellow on Match Point - the best ZvZ ever !
+ Show Spoiler +



Zero vs Type-B on Match Point - with an analysis made by Day9:
+ Show Spoiler +




Part 2 of the game Zero vs Great - casted by Moletrap
+ Show Spoiler +


s2.pRo vs Gambler - 45 min long ZvZ (game casted by Falcon Paladin)

+ Show Spoiler +


Cheers
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Akio
Profile Blog Joined January 2019
Finland1838 Posts
December 28 2021 10:21 GMT
#9
Plague is pretty bonkers in all matchups, even ZvZ if it goes late enough
Mine gas, build tanks.
SerpentFlame
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
415 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-28 23:22:22
December 28 2021 23:20 GMT
#10
(Not an expert here)

The cost of going Queens Nest -> Hive -> Defilers Mound -> Plague -> Consume -> Defiler is
100+150+100+200+100+150 = 800 gas. That's 8 mutalisks of gas. One issue is that this move doesn't pay for itself until you get all of the above, meaning you're fighting at a gas/mutalisk deficit for a long time. ZvZ often gets decided by mutalisk fights of 4-20 mutalisks, so being down 8 mutalisks is a LOT.

It does happen in rare occasions, as shown in the above games. But there's a reason it's rare. As far as I can tell, defilers only become viable in games where mutalisk escalation gets really crazy (> 40 mutalisks flying around, this is what happens in the YellOw vs Jaedong game above) and thus 800 gas isn't that much of an investment, or else one player has a good spread of spore colonies and chooses to rush fast hive (which can be countered by the other player aggressively expanding).
I Wannabe[WHITE], the very BeSt[HyO], like Yo Hwan EVER Oz.......
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