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! [G] The Awesomzerg Guide Today: ZvT

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-07-19 17:21:09
August 12 2006 16:03 GMT
#1
First of all. Why Zerg guide? Because i see terrans win enought already =[. Why not protoss? because your race sucks. You are outplayed by simple things as drops and base counters. If you want to play Protoss: go ahead. Play protoss and lose, and then come to TL and make a whiney thread about it. Or wait for 1.15 and hope blizzard gives you guys something like 40 mana stroms.

If you want to feel better about your race, you can pm FrozenArbiter and ask him his MSN.

Why Luna? becuase everyone plays luna, and learning luna means learning every boring macro map everyone plays nowadays.


ONTO THE GUIDEEEEEEEEEE:

Yeah, so map is Luna.

[image loading]

[Bigger Pic]

Ugly? Yes. Boring? Maybe. (shh yes)

It all depends on how you play it. The map doesnt allow many strategies go into place. A easy to take natural. No close gas expansion, becomes hard for most newbie zergs to play this map in mid game (and since early game kinda vanishes cause EVERY DAMN T FAST EXPOS).

First of all. 99.99999999% of the T's you will be playing will eaither fast expo, or bunker rush you (especially on PGTour). Or Both WOW HALP.

Hey im right here dont worry.

So you learned how to split 4 drones into 4 diferent mineral patches, your hatching another drone and you are aleady scared because you are facing those ugly soviets with their pothead marines.

Some random thoughs about your play before you actually start having some action.

- You already sent your starting overlord to the nearest horizontal base and now you are sending your brave scout drone out.
+ Show Spoiler +
yeah, that was a screamer


- Your second overlord should be hatching and ready to be rallied to the other horizontal position. If you happen to see a little SCV with a space suit running around and looking for your base, try to guess where it comes from.
Once you locate the terrans base, redirect your second overlord so it goes along the path a terran will take to bunker rush you. This will help you see if marines are coming your way (although your scouting drone should be enought to do so). If you are facing a terran you that bunker rushes all his game just 12 POOL GODAMMIT.

- Please, i mean PLEASE... dont try to do stuff like gasing the terran if you dont know why you are doing it. Terrans tend to build just 2/4 marines, cc and then proceed to expo. Your hatching drone will do nothing but DIE, giving no information in the process. Try to keep it alive. And if you are sure it will die... just pull him back to safety so he harvest more minerals.

Your pool is done? good. hatch ling acording to what the terran is doing. If hes bunker rushing of course you need lings. If you are _sure_ hes fast expoing, just hatch some to chase that nasty scv around + scouting movement in front of the soviets' ramp. Then whore drone.

Get one creep colony to move the nickelodeon gloo around your natural, letting you have proper sunken placement. NOT LIKE THIS -> Click
You dont really need to make eleventy sunkens now. Just wait for the marines to kill the scouting ling and then yes: Sunk fast.


You can do whatever you please, mutalisk or lurk. Both work. Personally i like opening with muta more, and then proceed to tech to lurks. Going straight to lurks is ok, and might give you the oportunity of getting another gas expo inmediately, by putting your first 2 lurks in the ramp that leads to that expo. If you decide to place your third hatch at your main, please use a "smart" spot. FE Terrans got 2 scans (imba) and can scan your tech fairly easy, and counter accordingly. Choices are he will scan your tech anyways, but at least the bastard will have to use some more scans, and hopefully, more time. OMGFFF

Ok so your base is settled, like it always is. But you may say: BUT OMG INTOTHEWOW TERRON JUST COMES WITH HUGE BALL AND EVERYThING KILLSS!!!111oneone.

Yes, im quite aware of the power of the terran "Ball".

All you need to beat that scary first terran try to defeating you is:

- Proper army placement -> a good flank
- Some good speed (OMG APM CONTROVERSY) and timming to send your army, to stop your lings from being roasted and terran pulling back
- Huge balls.

So. Luna has not-buildable terrain in middle and its big wide open. What better place to flank a terran?.

Place your army forming a semi circle around the place the terran army is more likely to go trought. Put a lonely brave (not) ling in that place. When his army comes out put all your hard practice you did during all those chat lobby sesions and 1a2a3a4a5a6a AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Watch your lings swarm into his army like chibi would rush into a 4th grade classroom, your lurkers get in range and BAM. FUCKING BLOODBATH ALL OVER THE TWIGHLIGHT TILE SET. Awesome.

Ok, so you say "BUT ITW, I WENT MUTALISKSSS WHAT DOO I DOO WITH THEM?".

You want your mutalisks to keep the terran in his base as long as you can. You can kill lonely svcs/marines whatever you find. But remember your main purpose is KEEPING THE TERRAN IN BASE. I often find myself crying against my keyboard while watching a rep from the strategy section because a zerg tries to kill stuff _too_ hard and gets all his mutalisks killed. Mutaslisk getting killed = terran going out = expos getting killed = you getting contained. Just simply fly around, move your mutas and tell the terran "stay in, otherwise i kill your stuff and rape your children". And no one wants his children getting raped.

[image loading]


If you are not fast enought to mutalisk harras while 1sz, 2sh, 3sd, 4so. Just fly your muta to a safe place (ie not the terran base). Macro 1 second and fly them back into ripping terran babies.

Okay, you can stop reading here. JUST KIDDING. Late game random thoughs ahead.


So you ripped the first push apart. You have secured 2 or more expansions with gas on luna and feel happy enought to kill the terran and call him a n00b after. What do we do?

Well... luna doesn leave many tech choices. You can make some guardians only to harrass behind his expo minerals (note: dont do this if the terran has a totally awesome number of vessels)

Without cliffs around the map, they become pretty obsolete unles you have godly awesome control. And this a newbie guide. So just dont go guardians.

Going ultralisks is a good choice. Depending on your gas income, you can hydra/ultra or ultra/ling (this being more common). You can add some defilers to that, or go defilers with lurkers first and then add the ultralisks. All depending on how you are doing in the game. Swarms kicks in faster and lets you survive pushes if terran is not vessel heavy. Ultras kick in a little later (the need their upgrades to be effective) but they kick major ass. Remember, expo macro expo macro expo macro. Get gas, get more ultralisks.


[image loading]
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[image loading]
+
[image loading]
GOOD.

[image loading]
+
[image loading]
+
[image loading]
WORKS.

[image loading]
+
[image loading]
+
[image loading]
LOZL



Something important late game is, keeping your army in constant movement around the map. An idle army is a easy to mass-irradiate army. meaning no defilers, lings popping up from irradiate splash, and your army becoming little and phunny.

Countering, and counter-dropping is a good idea. A 4 overlord drop with 4 or 5 ultralisks, 1 defiler and a nice amount of lings can do some good damage to a main terran base without the proper defence. And if its not a win/lose situation for terran (ie, him being just able to kill you and lift his buildings). He will have to go back buying you time.
Countering bases by ground with little but effective armies is also a good idea of course.
Just remember, scourge vessels (everyone knows mass vessels = autowin), FLANK a lot, move your army. And expo expo expo. thats whats zergs do, turn minimap as green as they can. (heres how your minimap should look like)


Ps: This intends to be just a mini help guide to very newbie zergs, a good zerg can probably write just one website about how to ZvT on Luna.

I was bored and wanted to do something different. If its not for the strategy section, just close it


THE END.

edit: i might add more tomorrow. i added pics :3
Moderator<:3-/-<
SoMuchBetter
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia10606 Posts
August 12 2006 16:20 GMT
#2
nice little guide

i just wanted to make one correction though:
the only totally awesome number of vessels is zero
AUSSIESCUM
TeamLiquid eSTROgeneral #1 • RIP
dronebabo
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
10866 Posts
August 12 2006 16:23 GMT
#3
--- Nuked ---
MarcX
Profile Joined February 2005
Netherlands772 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-12 16:49:44
August 12 2006 16:34 GMT
#4
You rock. Great and easy-going, easy to understand writing style and illustrative pictures.

But somebody should make that website.
«A fool and his freedom are soon parted» ~ Richard Stallman, Founder FSF
Alborz
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Canada1551 Posts
August 12 2006 16:38 GMT
#5
Nice guide, I loved the pictures rofl.
JimBobRay
Profile Joined May 2005
128 Posts
August 12 2006 16:39 GMT
#6
A great starter. Loved the images too.
Has anyone ever tried diplomacy in starcraft?
TheosEx
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States894 Posts
August 12 2006 16:45 GMT
#7
Yeah, I always wonder why people take gas ZvT...
b_unnies
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
3579 Posts
August 12 2006 16:49 GMT
#8
that was funny haha
OverTheUnder
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2929 Posts
August 12 2006 17:28 GMT
#9
that's the sexiest scouting drone i have ever seen.
Honor would be taking it up the ass and curing all diseases, damn how stupid can people get. -baal http://puertoricanbw.ytmnd.com/
red.venom
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4651 Posts
August 12 2006 17:30 GMT
#10
If a T gets a massive amount of vessels you need plague and hydras. Just thought I would add that.
Broom
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
August 12 2006 18:15 GMT
#11
On August 13 2006 02:28 OverTheUnder wrote:
that's the sexiest scouting drone i have ever seen.


seriously.

I think he could infest the terran CC if he felt like it.
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
August 12 2006 19:59 GMT
#12
Funny guide
I'll call Nada.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
August 12 2006 20:38 GMT
#13
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

<--- my reaction to guide. (Good for newbies too)

*Screams and runs horrified/shellshocked into a dark corner* <-- my reaction to the "scouting drone"
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
August 12 2006 20:57 GMT
#14
harrr, but why diss toss in the beginning?
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20017 Posts
August 12 2006 21:33 GMT
#15
On August 13 2006 01:45 TheosEx wrote:
Yeah, I always wonder why people take gas ZvT...

To make the terran fast expo.
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9947 Posts
August 12 2006 22:37 GMT
#16
hmm, imo taking gas ZvT is good when terran does 8 rax 9 depot for bunk rush/pressure into fast acad-> fe
I'd take an 8rax'ers gas with my drone if i see hes not adding a 2nd rax after it
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
August 12 2006 23:37 GMT
#17
I thought I was reading a post by rekrul :O
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
August 12 2006 23:43 GMT
#18
Isnt faster to throw the overlord to the nearest vertical base? (From 11 to 6)

PS:cool guide
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
August 13 2006 00:02 GMT
#19
The Terran Ball lol
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
In)Spire
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States1323 Posts
August 13 2006 00:10 GMT
#20
O thx funny, entertaining, and a great guide for zerg players
tKd_
Profile Joined February 2005
United States2916 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-13 00:52:08
August 13 2006 00:50 GMT
#21
you can still get bunker rushed badly if you 12 pool on certain maps. RoV is one, pioneer is another. i suggest doing 11 pool if you want to avoid one better but you need to portend that. of course on luna its fine. but we aren't going to play luna all day now are we
[jOyO]
Profile Joined July 2006
United States920 Posts
August 13 2006 01:02 GMT
#22
whats ur supply in that minimap?

good guide --___--
You must notta heard me PARTNA!
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
August 13 2006 02:47 GMT
#23
I added some more pics :3
Moderator<:3-/-<
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
August 13 2006 03:01 GMT
#24
if i scout i bunk rush i go 12 hatch and use 6 drones to pwnzor rine lol i hate having to drone/ling. sunks ftw.

same for lot rushes, 9 hatch or 12 hatch ftW!
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-13 03:35:56
August 13 2006 03:34 GMT
#25
Fucking awesome

but add a pic of good sunken placement plz ^^
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
August 13 2006 03:49 GMT
#26
On August 13 2006 01:03 IntoTheWow wrote:
[image loading]
+
[image loading]
+
[image loading]
LOZL


LOZL
hahahahaha
i liked this guide =P
Moderatorhttps://soundcloud.com/castlesmusic/sets/oak
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
August 13 2006 03:50 GMT
#27
Rofl funny XD
TaDa1.
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
655 Posts
August 13 2006 04:20 GMT
#28
cool and funny, + good for newbie ^^
sos bomber stork savior fan ^ http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/5160596/1/WXZ/achievements/category/4377898
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-13 04:32:38
August 13 2006 04:24 GMT
#29
Not very in-depth, but good anyway for starters I guess. I just use 12 hatch every game on luna,play to improve on pgtour, don't just play to win. You aren't going to learn to stop bunker rushes if you are paranoid and 12 pool all the time. Of course on gay maps like azalea, PA, and Forte where it's ridiculously hard to stop bunker rushes, yeah, just 12 pool. If you cannot contain a terran using only your muta harassment, make sure you support with mutas with a group of lings so you can kill any mnm force that heads for your expos before you have lurkers. 7 mutas won't do shit against 12 marines and 4 medics, but 7 mutas and 12 lings will demolish it without losing more than 4 or so lings :D Also, reactions to seeing a bunker rush might change depending on when you scouted. 9 drone scout= just cancel hatch and 12 pool, later drone scout= fight it off with drones. With a 9 drone scout, your pool will be much slower and your hatch will also be a few seconds behind, making it much harder to stop with lings and drones. Rather than trying to send your overlord to another base to see rines, it might be a better idea to rally it to your natural for extra sight range so you can see the bunker being constructed. It's possible to build it out of sight range and in attack range and you'll only notice a glimpse of an scv, which is a little luck based since the scv might not turn toward you for a while. But if you have an overlord there, you can see the bunker as soon as he puts it up and bring out drones.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
XDawn
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Canada4040 Posts
August 13 2006 05:03 GMT
#30
It's the Terran Blob, not ball -_-a;
Use it or lose it
gP.anDY-
Profile Joined June 2006
Norway2 Posts
August 13 2006 05:59 GMT
#31
nice guide xD
jkillashark
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States5262 Posts
August 13 2006 06:20 GMT
#32
Taeet, I'm a Terran player myself (Lawl at "The Ball") but I've been trying to play ZvT and PvT for reverse matchup feels. This helps my ZvT tremendously.
Do your best, God will do the rest.
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
August 13 2006 07:15 GMT
#33
Ultra+ling+defiler hard vs 2 port ball.9(sen) Go hydra if you scout him going 2 ports with your mutalisks.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
M7Excellence
Profile Joined June 2006
United States227 Posts
August 13 2006 09:00 GMT
#34
I agree with what everyone says about this guide! Although, you lose crediablilty with by using the racist remarks appear to have no effect on everyone reading this topic.

-------------

Sigh T_T

"If you happen to see a nigger with a space suit running around and looking for your base, try to guess where it comes from."
You do not know what you do not know that is why you do not have. If you knew what you new then you would have. Because to know and not to do is not to know.
fanta[Rn]
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Japan2465 Posts
August 13 2006 09:14 GMT
#35
On August 13 2006 08:37 fusionsdf wrote:
I thought I was reading a post by rekrul :O


blasphemy!


nice guide
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
August 13 2006 09:18 GMT
#36
On August 13 2006 15:20 jkillashark wrote:
Taeet

stop that

hydra lurk def is as good if not better than ult ling def
especially cost efficiency wise, and you are less likely to blow a blood vessel due to frusteration from irad raids

taking their gas can be good in some situations. allows you to 3 hat after holding an 8 rax without worrying about 1 rax tank or such gay shit.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Scorpion
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States1974 Posts
August 13 2006 09:20 GMT
#37
What's that last strat? With the devourer, mutalisk, and overlord? Do you use ovies to make the marines target something else, use the devourers to destroy science vessels and use mutalisks to wreck havoc?

D:
Mango @ U.S.East!
da)incognito
Profile Joined October 2003
United States512 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-13 16:21:21
August 13 2006 09:23 GMT
#38
On August 13 2006 18:00 M7Excellence wrote:
I agree with what everyone says about this guide! Although, you lose crediablilty with by using the racist remarks appear to have no effect on everyone reading this topic.

-------------

Sigh T_T

"If you happen to see a nigger with a space suit running around and looking for your base, try to guess where it comes from."


those remarks made the guide an even more enjoyable and entertaining read, not that im racist or anything :X. i only remember seeing that one reference, its all in good humor

EDIT: in no way am i implying that you're racist, i just found the reference amusing, while it appears that m7 did not~
*insert witty comment*
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
August 13 2006 09:30 GMT
#39
I never tried to eb racist, if people find it offensive, ill just edit it out.
Moderator<:3-/-<
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
August 13 2006 09:32 GMT
#40
On August 13 2006 05:57 evanthebouncy~ wrote:
harrr, but why diss toss in the beginning?


because protoss sucks
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
August 13 2006 09:35 GMT
#41
On August 13 2006 18:18 HungZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2006 15:20 jkillashark wrote:
Taeet

stop that

hydra lurk def is as good if not better than ult ling def
especially cost efficiency wise, and you are less likely to blow a blood vessel due to frusteration from irad raids

taking their gas can be good in some situations. allows you to 3 hat after holding an 8 rax without worrying about 1 rax tank or such gay shit.


I agree. Imo Hydra/lurk/defiler is even better than ultra/ling/defiler in some situations. Thing is hydra/lurk/defiler is a lot harder to control without the appropiate babysitting. A terran with a good vessel usage will just mass irradiate you, and if your not quick enought burrowing picking your own hydras, he will just decimate your forces.

Also Hydra/lurk tends to die horribly (even under swarms) to mass tank late game builds, because hydras tend to clump a lot more while firing (while ultra/ling clumps a little but around terran units, turning splash a little into your favor) imo.
Moderator<:3-/-<
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
August 13 2006 09:56 GMT
#42
well ultra ling is easier because if you have the econ to support it you can just mass attack move.
but hydra lurk swarm plague supported by sufficient econ,used very well is nearly unbeatable. plague makes vessel raids very risky and swarm/plague/lurks can take out lots of tanks. it takes a pretty large amount of tanks well positioned to really do anything.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-14 09:15:32
August 13 2006 10:01 GMT
#43
Yeah, thats what i said about army babysitting. And as this is a newbie guide i dont want to make playing a match a living hell xd. Once someone because good, or at least concious about whats he doing he will figure the rest by himself :>
Moderator<:3-/-<
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
August 13 2006 10:31 GMT
#44
On August 13 2006 18:30 IntoTheWow wrote:
I never tried to eb racist, if people find it offensive, ill just edit it out.


As a jew on the end of many holocaust jokes, I found it funny.

I think it's pretty obvious you're not racist.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
Koldblooded
Profile Joined July 2006
United States661 Posts
August 13 2006 10:31 GMT
#45
good guide and entertaining, and funny pictures
By.Flash fighting
Night[Mare
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Mexico4793 Posts
August 13 2006 10:43 GMT
#46
hey, pretty nice job, you only missed the ninjas
Teamliquidian townie
The Storyteller
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
Singapore2486 Posts
August 13 2006 11:17 GMT
#47
On August 13 2006 19:31 A3iL3r0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2006 18:30 IntoTheWow wrote:
I never tried to eb racist, if people find it offensive, ill just edit it out.


As a jew on the end of many holocaust jokes, I found it funny.

I think it's pretty obvious you're not racist.


Protoss is a race =D
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
August 13 2006 12:32 GMT
#48
lol~ Aren't you a cutie pie comedian.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
M7Excellence
Profile Joined June 2006
United States227 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-13 12:48:17
August 13 2006 12:46 GMT
#49
Hi Into,

I was not calling you a racist. I was merely saying that even though your style of humor is recognized by me, being black I felt that it took away your worthyness as a writer, by not being concious of others. I do understand that black people don't play bw much. Like someone said in the "Do niggers play bw?" post, I didn't know black people play bw, I thought that they are out stealing. I might not have quoted that correctly becuase it has stuck in my mind without even trying to store it there. I am not saying to anyone who is truely racist here to adjust to me or another one else. I do not have the right to judge you but as a member of this great community I wanted one of my fellow gamers to be aware that his guide was good and for me could have been even better.

Racism is when you have laws set up, systematically put in a way to keep people from advancing, to stop the advancement of a people. Black people have never had the power to enforce racism, and so this is something that white America is going to have to work out themselves. If they decide they want to stop it, curtail it, or to do the right thing... then it will be done, but not until then.
Lee, Spike


P.S. The below statement is steriotypical and may also fustrate someone...
"you are aleady scared because you are facing those ugly soviets with their pothead marines."
You do not know what you do not know that is why you do not have. If you knew what you new then you would have. Because to know and not to do is not to know.
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27143 Posts
August 13 2006 13:47 GMT
#50
very art.
ModeratorGodfather
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
August 13 2006 14:11 GMT
#51
On August 13 2006 21:46 M7Excellence wrote:
Hi Into,

I was not calling you a racist. I was merely saying that even though your style of humor is recognized by me, being black I felt that it took away your worthyness as a writer, by not being concious of others. I do understand that black people don't play bw much. Like someone said in the "Do niggers play bw?" post, I didn't know black people play bw, I thought that they are out stealing. I might not have quoted that correctly becuase it has stuck in my mind without even trying to store it there. I am not saying to anyone who is truely racist here to adjust to me or another one else. I do not have the right to judge you but as a member of this great community I wanted one of my fellow gamers to be aware that his guide was good and for me could have been even better.

Racism is when you have laws set up, systematically put in a way to keep people from advancing, to stop the advancement of a people. Black people have never had the power to enforce racism, and so this is something that white America is going to have to work out themselves. If they decide they want to stop it, curtail it, or to do the right thing... then it will be done, but not until then.
Lee, Spike


P.S. The below statement is steriotypical and may also fustrate someone...
"you are aleady scared because you are facing those ugly soviets with their pothead marines."


Racist comments have nothing to do with the quality of the guide... It might affect how you feel about it, but not the strategies given. White America is not racist, for the most part, they are instead, prejudiced, whether consciously or unconsciously. You're basically saying, by quoting Spike Lee, that the system is so deeply entrenched that merit cannot break through, which is something I have a hard time believing. You are basically saying you have no responsibility for your success or failure, that regardless of what you do, the system will block your way. Sure, you would be able to point out a lot of instances where there is some level of racism involved, but I don't think that you could say that it is completely responsible for the lack of success of black people. Somehow other races of people are able to come to America and, in a few generations start to do well, so what's the reason for that disparity? Is it that white people just hate black people the most? I don't know the answer, but it seems pretty unlikely.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
Return
Profile Joined June 2005
Ivory Coast856 Posts
August 13 2006 14:13 GMT
#52
On August 13 2006 18:00 M7Excellence wrote:
I agree with what everyone says about this guide! Although, you lose crediablilty with by using the racist remarks appear to have no effect on everyone reading this topic.

-------------

Sigh T_T

"If you happen to see a nigger with a space suit running around and looking for your base, try to guess where it comes from."


Although i have familly in africa and me myself am metis and my mum is black. That sentence makes sense to me since SCV's are black.

However in your second post you have a point.
Diiiscoo-oh, thats where the happy people go!
M7Excellence
Profile Joined June 2006
United States227 Posts
August 13 2006 15:30 GMT
#53
A3iL3r0n

Amnesty United States. April 13 2006 18:12.

My mom overheard a white lady tell a black lady, "I'm going get your black ass fired." at her workplace.
This was 4 months ago. Did the white lady get fired for racism?

True story.

muntol United States. April 13 2006 18:47.

as a proud man of color, i can safely say that a lot of you, because you never were black, don't realize how fucked up this could be. first of all, try to remember what it was like to be 18. or, some of you, try to imagine what it would be like to be 18. got it?

now imagine you're at a university. odds are you feel surrounded by white people. most of them are scared to offend you because you're black. some of them actually don't like you because your black. the smallest group want to become friends with you to prove they aren't racist because you're black.

now imagine, in all that fucked up paranoia, from the top, from the people in charge, who make tests and whatnot, from authority figures, you get this racist fucking reference to blacks and watermelons. okay so maybe you don't like condi, i don't like condi, whatever. she's a high profile black person, and this is like seeing a racist joke about her. it really makes me feel like i'm surrounded by racism even more.

and if you don't understand the watermelon thing, instead of saying that, why don't you open up a book?


========

D.KaLiN April 13 2006 16:30. Posts 30 PM

A 10 year old black girl is FAR more dangerous then a 40 year old white convicted murderer. There is PLENTY of evidence that backs this statement. We need to start getting rid of black babies before they have a chance to hurt someone (they inevitably will its indisputable).

lil.sis United States. April 13 2006 16:36.

Sambo can pick 3 bushels of cotton per hour. He steals 15% of the cotton he picks for his own personal gain and then denies it. A bushel of cotton sells for $10, and a meal for Sambo costs $2.75. Assuming Sambo eats 1 meal a day and works 18 hours a day, is it profitable to allow Sambo to continue living on your plantation? Explain and show all work.
====================================================

I can't find what tl ppl said about scv being black or not. Many people here think it is because they have ash on their face of dust. Now if you anyone thinks that scv are black then you would have basicaly proved what Spike Lee said above if bw was real life

I didn't intend for my post to start something becuase I was not calling him racist. Secondly the author of the guide said very maturely, that he will edit his guide if he feels he needs to because of this issue that has arose. So I would like to stop this here for his sake. He has offered his efforts to us and I would like to focus on the the topic of a guide. If you would like to speak about anything with me about what I typed then please PM me.


.




You do not know what you do not know that is why you do not have. If you knew what you new then you would have. Because to know and not to do is not to know.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 13 2006 15:55 GMT
#54
please shut up and make another thread about this
GunSlinger
Profile Joined June 2006
614 Posts
August 13 2006 17:12 GMT
#55
i give it a "meh"...or 6/10. as a zerg player i think you left everything kind of cut and dry. zerg players have to be creative to survive in a TvZ, especially if the terran is good. but it was alright, nice work.
BalloonFight
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States2007 Posts
August 13 2006 17:16 GMT
#56
Great starting out guide Wow. Just edit it and put 'nigga' in it so it sounds like the scv is your homie.
Reason
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United Kingdom2770 Posts
August 13 2006 20:52 GMT
#57
On August 14 2006 02:16 BalloonFight wrote:
Great starting out guide Wow. Just edit it and put 'nigga' in it so it sounds like the scv is your homie.

Yeah good guide and good nigga idea instead of nigger -.- everyone CAN be happy
Speak properly, and in as few words as you can, but always plainly; for the end of speech is not ostentation, but to be understood.
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
August 13 2006 23:25 GMT
#58
You know why it's funny?

Because it's absurd to think that ITW is so racist that he would even classify the black SCV as a 'nigger', so that's why we laugh.

Real racists don't find that funny.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
August 13 2006 23:34 GMT
#59
LOL...not the greatest guide ever, but probably the most entertaining. =D


Taking gas ZvT is a bit of an artform. Most people do it just becuase they think they are clever but really aren't. Taking gas is good if you have some sort of strategy in mind to combat fast expo (note that in general terms I don't recommend making the Terran fast expo...fast expo gives the Terran really good midgame power), or if you sense him shooting for a 3 rax rush or fast push (watch his rine count, watch how he's spending and if you're clever you can guess whether he's saving up for a CC). I did that to some newb ZvT on Azalea who was clearly aiming to rush me. It was LOL watching him mass up marines as I took the tech + expo advantage while he climbed over 30 supply devoid of gas.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
August 14 2006 00:06 GMT
#60
On August 13 2006 21:46 M7Excellence wrote:
Hi Into,

I was not calling you a racist. I was merely saying that even though your style of humor is recognized by me, being black I felt that it took away your worthyness as a writer, by not being concious of others. I do understand that black people don\'t play bw much. Like someone said in the \"Do niggers play bw?\" post, I didn\'t know black people play bw, I thought that they are out stealing. I might not have quoted that correctly becuase it has stuck in my mind without even trying to store it there. I am not saying to anyone who is truely racist here to adjust to me or another one else. I do not have the right to judge you but as a member of this great community I wanted one of my fellow gamers to be aware that his guide was good and for me could have been even better.

Racism is when you have laws set up, systematically put in a way to keep people from advancing, to stop the advancement of a people. Black people have never had the power to enforce racism, and so this is something that white America is going to have to work out themselves. If they decide they want to stop it, curtail it, or to do the right thing... then it will be done, but not until then.
Lee, Spike


P.S. The below statement is steriotypical and may also fustrate someone...
\"you are aleady scared because you are facing those ugly soviets with their pothead marines.\"


A few things:

1.) IMO you\'re being overly sensitive. One of the things I really like about comedians like Chappelle and Mencia is that their ethnic humor helps devalue racial slurs and stereotypes. It\'s the fact that they do make jokes out of it that does this. I can see where some people may be sensitive to this (particularly speaking, people who lived through the civil rights movement will find no humor whatsoever in these sorts of jokes). It may seem counter-intuitive at first glance, but I assure you that it is true that so long as we continue to attack what is considered politically incorrect, we will do nothing other than preserve racism.

2.) I find your definition of racism lacking, and I find it somewhat ironic that you feel that only the white world is racist. Your definition indicates that racism can only be created by law. Well, historically we have seen that this is most certainly not true. During the early 90\'s in a small country called Rwanda (situated in Southern Africa), there were two tribes somewhat at odds with each other, the Hutus and the Tutsis. I don\'t remember which one was the aggressor, but that side put out propaganda (but no laws) against the other and then was able to gather enough support to commit arguably the most gruesome genocide this world has ever seen. Over a period years, Hitler killed an estimated 6 million Jews. Over a period of 2 days, an estimated 800,000 to 1.5 million people were killed in Rwanda. This was not something done by way of law, but it was undeniably a case of racism on the highest level.

So racism clearly isn\'t summed up by laws, but merely in the existence of prejudice. This is where, in my opinion, the irony comes in. Merely by thinking that white America but only white America is racist, you are being a racist. Deny it though you may try, the logic is infallible. Further, there most certainly are black people who are racist, just as there are white people who are racist. I have met some of them. Racism is not specific to one ethnicity, never has been and never will be. And the only way to attack it is to deface racial slurs and stereotypes just as the aforementioned comedians do (thereby developing a tolerance to it by turning the insults into jokes), and shun extremist movements. Taking the word \"discrimination\" into it\'s broadest context, we see that the word merely means to distinguish between different things, and this is in fact the root of the meaning of the word when taken into a racial context. Distinguishing between things in general is an important part of human survival -- say for instance, distinguishing between a loaded and an unloaded gun, or a bottle of cyanide or a bottle of whine -- so in a sense, we will never end discrimination of any sort, not even racial. This should not be our goal; instead we should focus on preventing people from acting out in a discriminatory fashion.

3.) In part, you have to blame the song writers of the black community. Studies have shown that people act out on the music they listen to, particularly if they are young. A lot of black song writers say \"nigger\" a lot. Young kids listen and repeat. Similarly, a lot of song writers in general talk about drugs, sex and violence, and again kids listen and repeat.

4.) You just hijacked the thread and now I did too. You should have sent a PM to him about it, and really I ought to have sent you a PM, but I thought that there was enough here worthy of hijacking the thread momentarily, and I suspect you felt the same way about what you posted. Hopefully, no one will continue this thread hijacking, including both me and you.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
SCNewb
Profile Joined June 2006
Canada2210 Posts
August 14 2006 00:27 GMT
#61
awesome guide....appreciate it
Huge iloveOov fan
Rustymatin
Profile Joined August 2006
United States24 Posts
August 14 2006 00:41 GMT
#62
great guide... just got back into the game and thats what i needed
Hippopotamus
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
1914 Posts
August 14 2006 01:34 GMT
#63
[image loading]


Oh, and M7 you're just wrong. Compare TL.net to this place. Notice how the people at that place are dead serious, to the point of delusion. Notice how people here just try to introduce some humour. This is no different from some of the comments that were dropped in the "girlfiend got raped" thread. Insensitive? Perhaps, but funny as hell.
hall-
Profile Joined August 2006
United States22 Posts
August 14 2006 02:40 GMT
#64
On August 13 2006 01:23 Zooey wrote:
Watch your lings swarm into his army like chibi would rush into a 4th grade classroom
ahahahaahahahahahahahaha


hahahaha,awesome
7=K, l_=n,_l_=oh, T=oo~as in pool~ l=i,e, o=null consonant,v (right side up)=s,l- =a~as in bat~, -l=o,~as in hOt~, l= =ya,=l =yo~as in yawn~Korean keyboard -_-,want
hall-
Profile Joined August 2006
United States22 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-14 02:43:57
August 14 2006 02:43 GMT
#65
thanks intothewow,I needed a good laugh.
7=K, l_=n,_l_=oh, T=oo~as in pool~ l=i,e, o=null consonant,v (right side up)=s,l- =a~as in bat~, -l=o,~as in hOt~, l= =ya,=l =yo~as in yawn~Korean keyboard -_-,want
M7Excellence
Profile Joined June 2006
United States227 Posts
August 14 2006 04:13 GMT
#66
I thank you for all of your comments and corrections concerning what I said. Most of everything said to me was right. The best advice that I got from this is that I should have PMed him. I will do so in the futrue.


Good Guide!

Since I haven't been playing for long I can still remember how much I didn't know when I started. I would have loved this guide back then. I think it is very relatable for the beginner.
You do not know what you do not know that is why you do not have. If you knew what you new then you would have. Because to know and not to do is not to know.
ManaBlue
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Canada10458 Posts
August 14 2006 04:45 GMT
#67
Hehe, I enjoyed the humour. Excellent post IntoTheWow, though I take great offence to what you said about my race.
ModeratorTL VOD legends: Live2Win, hasuprotoss, Cadical, rinizim, Mani, thedeadhaji, Kennigit, SonuvBob, yakii, fw, pheer, CDRdude, pholon, Uraeus, zatic, baezzi. The contributors make this site what it is. *Props to FakeSteve for respecting the guitar gods*
mobilescv
Profile Joined October 2005
Finland72 Posts
August 14 2006 05:55 GMT
#68
haha
-_-V
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-14 06:19:37
August 14 2006 06:19 GMT
#69
INTOTHEWOW IS CLEARLY A DIRTY RACIST

what the fuck man seriously
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
SaNteria
Profile Joined April 2004
Canada487 Posts
August 14 2006 06:51 GMT
#70
On August 13 2006 21:46 M7Excellence wrote:
Hi Into,

I was not calling you a racist. I was merely saying that even though your style of humor is recognized by me, being black I felt that it took away your worthyness as a writer, by not being concious of others. I do understand that black people don't play bw much. Like someone said in the "Do niggers play bw?" post, I didn't know black people play bw, I thought that they are out stealing. I might not have quoted that correctly becuase it has stuck in my mind without even trying to store it there. I am not saying to anyone who is truely racist here to adjust to me or another one else. I do not have the right to judge you but as a member of this great community I wanted one of my fellow gamers to be aware that his guide was good and for me could have been even better.

Racism is when you have laws set up, systematically put in a way to keep people from advancing, to stop the advancement of a people. Black people have never had the power to enforce racism, and so this is something that white America is going to have to work out themselves. If they decide they want to stop it, curtail it, or to do the right thing... then it will be done, but not until then.
Lee, Spike


P.S. The below statement is steriotypical and may also fustrate someone...
"you are aleady scared because you are facing those ugly soviets with their pothead marines."


Shut it. Nigger.
zeee rainman
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28642 Posts
August 14 2006 06:56 GMT
#71
hey now
Moderator
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
August 14 2006 07:37 GMT
#72
On August 14 2006 13:45 ManaBlue wrote:
Hehe, I enjoyed the humour. Excellent post IntoTheWow, though I take great offence to what you said about my race.

if you (all toss collectively) stop whining every time a toss loses people will be nicer to you.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
August 14 2006 07:51 GMT
#73
When the mods see true racism in a condemnatory manner, most of the time action will be taken. Look at some of 8882's posts, and where it got him +__+

{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
August 14 2006 09:23 GMT
#74
niggers are cooler than white people. they have bigger asses too! and they make better ehm scvs
Night[Mare
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Mexico4793 Posts
August 14 2006 11:06 GMT
#75
Good post mortality
Teamliquidian townie
SixSongs
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Poland1455 Posts
August 14 2006 11:31 GMT
#76
On August 14 2006 16:51 thedeadhaji wrote:
When the mods see true racism in a condemnatory manner, most of the time action will be taken. Look at some of 8882's posts, and where it got him +__+



what happened to him, he finally got banned( PLS PLS PLS )

anyways Great Thread WoW
The Prince of DroneS
Oxygen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada3581 Posts
August 14 2006 11:48 GMT
#77
I'm going to go try this one out.
Dont drink and derive. TSL: Made with Balls.
SpringWind
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
China230 Posts
August 14 2006 12:43 GMT
#78
good pics
SkY)CosMoS
Profile Joined July 2006
Dominican Republic106 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-14 13:20:54
August 14 2006 13:19 GMT
#79
I did freak out when I saw the word "nigger" in the guide, but at least this isnt like 4chan /b/
Do it beautifully
5HITCOMBO
Profile Joined March 2006
Japan2239 Posts
August 14 2006 15:33 GMT
#80
12 pool to 4 hat is a great strategy for safely taking your nat and an expand on luna - or any 4 player map that isn't requiem, for that matter. And sometimes vs SK, 2 evo chamber hydra/scourge is a good counter. Overall a very good guide, but marks off for the nigger comment.
I live in perpetual fear of terrorists and studio gangsters
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17726 Posts
August 14 2006 18:28 GMT
#81
This is art
[image loading]

haha
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
August 14 2006 19:29 GMT
#82
On August 13 2006 21:46 M7Excellence wrote:
Hi Into,

I was not calling you a racist. I was merely saying that even though your style of humor is recognized by me, being black I felt that it took away your worthyness as a writer, by not being concious of others. I do understand that black people don't play bw much. Like someone said in the "Do niggers play bw?" post, I didn't know black people play bw, I thought that they are out stealing. I might not have quoted that correctly becuase it has stuck in my mind without even trying to store it there. I am not saying to anyone who is truely racist here to adjust to me or another one else. I do not have the right to judge you but as a member of this great community I wanted one of my fellow gamers to be aware that his guide was good and for me could have been even better.

Racism is when you have laws set up, systematically put in a way to keep people from advancing, to stop the advancement of a people. Black people have never had the power to enforce racism, and so this is something that white America is going to have to work out themselves. If they decide they want to stop it, curtail it, or to do the right thing... then it will be done, but not until then.
Lee, Spike


P.S. The below statement is steriotypical and may also fustrate someone...
"you are aleady scared because you are facing those ugly soviets with their pothead marines."

So when you make jokes and stuff, you off-limit all material that may offend any particular groups? Wow, boring. =D
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
M7Excellence
Profile Joined June 2006
United States227 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-08-15 01:56:27
August 15 2006 01:52 GMT
#83
I am sorry HeadBangaa,

1. I have already unhijacked this post.

2. I am 27 and have been in business since I was 18. So after learning how to give speaches and consult adults in business, you pick up the mindfulness of all people and there differences. Given this, you will notice that in my first reply in this post, I said that using racist TERMS/REMARKS takes away from a lesson and the writer. That is all that I inteded to convey, everything else was assumed by other.

3. Please, andyone else who wants to comment about what I have siad in this post, PM me.
You do not know what you do not know that is why you do not have. If you knew what you new then you would have. Because to know and not to do is not to know.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 15 2006 02:51 GMT
#84
this is brood war forum filled mostly with young adults from all over the world, no one cares about how good of a writer someone is as long as the stuff he writes is funny. Racial stuff gets thrown around all the time, we all know what is too much and what is just poking fun. I understand your bringing to attention racial stereotypes in intothewow's writing. But I don't think it's needed because it's not anything serious, it was just a zerg beginner's guide, I'm sure intothewow knows how to write properly when he needs to. Please don't be so sensitive and uptight about these issues. The fact that race isn't brought up all the time here is a testament to how smart and multicultural we are (although we are all asian)... but otherwise I think you're just bringing up something that doesn't need to be brought up and youre oversensitive about it and on top of that stole a very good thread.
ManaBlue
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Canada10458 Posts
August 15 2006 03:04 GMT
#85
The guide is good.

In general, oversensitivity + the internet = half the people in the thread acting like self-ritious assholes and the other half being overly insulting/racist just to piss off the people on their high horses.

Don't mutate this thread anymore please.

Nice writing IntoTheWow.
ModeratorTL VOD legends: Live2Win, hasuprotoss, Cadical, rinizim, Mani, thedeadhaji, Kennigit, SonuvBob, yakii, fw, pheer, CDRdude, pholon, Uraeus, zatic, baezzi. The contributors make this site what it is. *Props to FakeSteve for respecting the guitar gods*
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
August 16 2006 04:43 GMT
#86
Thanks for the input everyone :D
Moderator<:3-/-<
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
August 17 2006 02:32 GMT
#87
On August 15 2006 12:04 ManaBlue wrote:
In general, oversensitivity + the internet = half the people in the thread acting like self-ritious assholes and the other half being overly insulting/racist just to piss off the people on their high horses.


You're overreacting to people overreacting. Come on everybody, JLIG~
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
August 17 2006 02:45 GMT
#88
JLIG~
turretlame
Profile Joined January 2005
Poland176 Posts
August 17 2006 05:19 GMT
#89
hahahaha
...
Bladox
Profile Joined February 2003
Canada763 Posts
August 17 2006 06:14 GMT
#90
lol this guide is gold ITW hahhahahahha
Huh no sorry... this game isnt like counter-strike... You actually need skills to play broodwar!
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