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United States10149 Posts
awesome.
I didn't really feel as if the ones on LP were the best, as they only showed like one cannon, and as we all know one cannon isn't the best... I never see the pros use any of the example wall-ins either, or at least, very rarely.
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On FS isnt it better to have the gate and the core forge side by side with a zealot gap between them at 7? Or is it too vulnerable to hydra bust? Humble questions, I'm just a D player :p
Like this:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lpX9y.png)
edit: >.>
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The above is good, but forge on the left and gate on the right. On there u have 3 gaps.
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The 7 oclock wall is a bit funny. You have to kill both the pylon as well as the cannon to get your goons out. fabiano's wall except with the forge and gateway positions reversed is what Bisu did on Bnet attack.
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On November 01 2011 08:03 fabiano wrote:On FS isnt it better to have the gate and the core forge side by side with a zealot gap between them at 7? Or is it too vulnerable to hydra bust? Humble questions, I'm just a D player :p Like this: + Show Spoiler +edit: >.>
ok i fixed the op and fixed those walls up.
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Walling in PvZ is actually fairly straightforward. As a general rule of thumb the Forge goes on the left and the Gateway goes on the right if you have a horizontal wall (For instance, on the 7 o clock and 1 o clock positions on Fighting Spirit). If you have a vertical position you place the Pylon so it is touching the top left (or right) of the Forge (Whichever corner is closer to your Nexus). You build your Forge on the bottom of your choke point and place the Gateway directly above the Forge.
In most situations this is how professional players wall their expansions in PvZ.
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On November 01 2011 08:03 fabiano wrote:On FS isnt it better to have the gate and the core forge side by side with a zealot gap between them at 7? Or is it too vulnerable to hydra bust? Humble questions, I'm just a D player :p Like this: edit: >.>
First of all, put your Forge on the left side and your wall will be Zergling tight, presuming you block between the Gateway and Forge. Secondly, place your Pylon so its in horizontal alignment with your Pylon. This will make it so if you are Hydralisk all inned the Zerg literally has to focus down your wall until he/she can effectively target fire your Cannons. If your wall goes down prior to having sufficient Zealots to act as a wall, you can also pull Probes off the line. Placing the Cannons back a hex or two makes your choke point more effective against a Hydralisk bust.
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On November 01 2011 11:25 tryummm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 08:03 fabiano wrote:On FS isnt it better to have the gate and the core forge side by side with a zealot gap between them at 7? Or is it too vulnerable to hydra bust? Humble questions, I'm just a D player :p Like this: edit: >.> First of all, put your Forge on the left side and your wall will be Zergling tight, presuming you block between the Gateway and Forge. Secondly, place your Pylon so its in horizontal alignment with your Pylon. This will make it so if you are Hydralisk all inned the Zerg literally has to focus down your wall until he/she can effectively target fire your Cannons. If your wall goes down prior to having sufficient Zealots to act as a wall, you can also pull Probes off the line. Placing the Cannons back a hex or two makes your choke point more effective against a Hydralisk bust.
i updated and added medusa+python. there is a completely different variation of a wall build for that location now.
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Australia7069 Posts
On November 01 2011 08:03 fabiano wrote:On FS isnt it better to have the gate and the core forge side by side with a zealot gap between them at 7? Or is it too vulnerable to hydra bust? Humble questions, I'm just a D player :p Like this: edit: >.>
thats wrong, forge goes on the left, gate on the right.
as for these walls you've done, your pylons aren't really ideal. eg: 4 on aztec if you put the pylon 2 to the left, you can fit an extra cannon in case of a hydra break
edit: same with 12
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On November 01 2011 14:18 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 08:03 fabiano wrote:On FS isnt it better to have the gate and the core forge side by side with a zealot gap between them at 7? Or is it too vulnerable to hydra bust? Humble questions, I'm just a D player :p Like this: edit: >.> thats wrong, forge goes on the left, gate on the right.As for these walls you've done, your pylons aren't really ideal. eg: 4 on aztec if you put the pylon 2 to the left, you can fit an extra cannon in case of a hydra break edit: same with 12
I actually posted what I believe to be the best wall for 7 o'clock.
Scrap the old style of forge left+gateway right.
wishbones: 7 - 1 Zealot or 1 Probe (copied from OP)
@Aztec recommendation = Fixed 12 & 4 thanks for input. Very big difference now.
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Australia7069 Posts
those type of walls suck tho because you have to kill the pylon to get goons out and its a vulnerable target in case of a hydra bust.
actually it looks like heaps of your walls look like that. Also you shouldn't be FFEing on central plains regardless, because you get a back expo 1 gate with an expo behind it holding the ramp with zealots is superior.
also i really dont like these "have to kill the pylon to get out" walls at all. Sure it makes ling allins a little easier to hold, but 2 space walls are fine for that if you scout properly and have time to pull a couple of probes to plug the gap, then u dont need to make extra pylons and stuff to power your wall after u have to kill the pylon to get out later.
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Its ok you dont have to like them if they don't suit your style of FE protoss, but top level koreans have used these (kill pylon later walls) so I know they are fine, if you dont like them, you don't have to use them.
As for Central Disctricts someone told me its a broken map that proleague let go of, but correct me if I am misinformed.
As for the back door, and I'm not saying don't take it first, but here is a good reason why one might not want too depending on spawn locations.
Central Districts Practice PvsT
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Man, that's great. I really use the weirdest walls on Polaris, so cool to be able to use something that makes a little more sense. ^^
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Hey no problem, keep your eyes on this thread for the next few months.
I will do my best to add wall-off pics for every map that is in the iCCup map pack.
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The only map I play is Fighting Spirit, so I give a lot of attention to my walls.
+ Show Spoiler +This is the best wall for FS 7 o'clock position. You can get 7 cannons in excellent positions in this wall (the two places, on the right of the gate, and the left of the forge are particularly cool, being a bit further out. Place these two cannons first if you see a hydra bust coming) ![[image loading]](http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu275/Fontong2/SCScrnShot_122409_152540.png) Pylon: + Show Spoiler +Anti-hydra: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DgwyM.jpg) I like this one for 5 (you can get 3 really tight cannons in front of the wall if you scout a hydra bust early enough, saving your forge + gate) ![[image loading]](http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu275/Fontong2/SCScrnShot_122409_152527.png) Pylon: + Show Spoiler +1 o'clock: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1gV0F.jpg) Pylon: + Show Spoiler +11 o'clock: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RVY2P.jpg) Pylon: + Show Spoiler +
(i took the best ones from posts in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=111235)
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Australia7069 Posts
oo i like that bottom left wall, i was doing mine one hex up, the one you have looks GREAT for hydra busts.
as for your top wall i go forge - gate gap core from bottom to top, kinda the opposite of yours. no idea if the core is tight on the top (probably isn't) but i find people dont try ^_^
tested it: yes its tight
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Yeah, the bottom left one is so beautiful (thanks to Fontong for it!). However, make sure that you have 2 units blocking it. Lings will get past a single zealot there, although it looks like it will be tight.
I think that core on the bottom is best for the 11 o'clock, because you want your forge closer to the ramp before you have your core built, and to protect the important cannon at the top a bit. I'm going to do some more testing now to find some even better walls 
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Those are not bad at all. Its good to have variety in one thread.
Also keep in mind that with the style I propose it is completely safe to do 12 nexus/12 forge + 15 cannon/15 gateway, thus allowing you to skip 15 pylon completely due to the nexus' completion timing. Gives a faster cyber core as well. Also the probe transfer is much greater with 12 nexus/12 forge. The style I show is good for many reasons other than these listed.
Here's the replay I got the idea of 1 o'clock FS wall from.
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=49443
As you can see these style of walls allow for great flexibility. This is why I used them anywhere they can work in my examples.
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Great job updating and cataloging new walls to suit new playstyles.
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Your 12 and 6 wall ins for python are correct but good effort. I'll see if I can contact you online and we'll discuss wall ins since I already practised them for a majority of maps. Then lets post some more wall ins =p
Edit: They are correct, in some ways.
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Maybe your referring to the Cyber Core placement. (if not, then this is new info not easily noticed by viewing a photo)
The Cybernetics Core where it is at on the 12 and 6 location creates a wall between Geyser & Nexus.
Lings have to go around the Gas Geyser. (until Assimiliator)
If you miss place the Cybernetics Core though, you will mess up gas mining. So be careful on that part.
The 12 o'clock gas mining is actually improved with the Cyber Core in that position.
So you create a wider wall, and improve gas mining on that natural. Its a 2 bird with 1 stone situation@12 o'clock.
When cyber is touching that part of the Nexus it creates a wall, not passable by any unit.
The Gas Geyser actually takes up many more hexes then what is visible, so those open looking spaces between the Gas and Cyber are actually not passable as well. (until Assimilator)
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I don't like the FS walling I'm seeing in this thread, so I'll just post mine ^^:
+ Show Spoiler +
And here's a saved game with those specific walls and a cpu zerg you might want to worry about when checking them out ingame (sorry lazy ^^):
http://wikisend.com/download/117936/PvZ walling on FS.snx
Edit, I didn't check the OP walls first which are ok, the only difference is that he doesn't mind goon tight wallins, and I do. I hate having to kill my own pylon for just a slightly smaller entrance. Especially on FS, where the holes in the wall on top right and bottom left are so small to begin with. The advantage to his 11o'clock is that units spawn in the nat. This is great, but I prefer the extra space for cannons.
Oh btw, a severe disadvantage to OP's 1 o'clock wall is that a potential early goon will be stuck on the outside, so you're unable to kill the overlord in your base if you want to.
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If anyone wants their style of wall-off added just PM me. Please create the entire message with spoilers included so it is easier to add. This will help out this wall-off thread tremendously.
Please spoiler them, it will be nice to have many different forms of wall-off's for every map.
This will make this thread more community friendly as it seems lagging slowly behind in that department.
I did not take into account that some don't like to kill the pylons, I completely let that slip my mind, so I apologize.
If anyone has any suggestions, first check all the current examples, see if your idea differs from the current examples.
If it does, then feel free to PM me by creating the entire post in the message with your name in the spoiler.
Example: + Show Spoiler [Xsebt] +
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United States10149 Posts
On November 01 2011 19:06 JGodbout wrote:The only map I play is Fighting Spirit, so I give a lot of attention to my walls. This is the best wall for FS 7 o'clock position. You can get 6 cannons in excellent positions in this wall (the two places, on the right of the gate, and the left of the forge are particularly cool, being a bit further out. Place these two cannons first if you see a hydra bust coming) I like this one for 5 (you can get 3 really tight cannons in front of the wall if you scout a hydra bust early enough, saving your forge + gate) I do a similar one to this for 1 o'clock, but with the gateway (and the cannon above it) down 2 places, so that the bottom edge of the gateway is in line with the bottom edge of the forge. Also, I prefer placing the cannon on the left 1 place to the right, so that it's right edge is in line with the right edge of the forge. This makes additional cannons fit better. ![[image loading]](http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2725/fightingtopright.jpg) 11 o'clock: ![[image loading]](http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2746/fightingtopleft.jpg) (i took the best ones from posts in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=111235)
for 11, wouldn't it be better for cannon to be one down a hex so that yo u can fit in another cannon between the pylon and cannon? these walls look really good. ill think about trying them out.
EDIT: I mean the very bottom cannon. Didn't specify which cannon.
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circuit breaker added by Xsebt.
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XsebT's walls are pretty good too. They seem to be further out, and more spacious in the natural, which I guess is good for holding an army in there, but it means that you will have a weaker chain of cannons if they go for mutas. I don't like the bottom left wall that you provided very much, our bottom right and top right walls are basically the same. I do think that your top left wall is superior, though.
On November 02 2011 08:36 FlaShFTW wrote:
for 11, wouldn't it be better for cannon to be one down a hex so that yo u can fit in another cannon between the pylon and cannon? these walls look really good. ill think about trying them out.
EDIT: I mean the very bottom cannon. Didn't specify which cannon.
I can't quite tell from the picture whether a second cannon can fit in below that pylon and above the cannon (I didn't make the pictures).... but yes, when I do that wall, I put my first cannon touching the pylon, so that a third cannon can fit in nicely below it.
EDIT: I added a fixed picture to my last post
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Netherlands6142 Posts
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On November 01 2011 19:29 Kiante wrote:
oo i like that bottom left wall, i was doing mine one hex up, the one you have looks GREAT for hydra busts.
tested it: yes its tight
Haha I can't believe that 7 o clock wall I made up is still being passed around!
It looks ridiculous at first doesn't it? I love walls which keep your wall relatively flush to your nexus, as it can protect run-bys, muta harass, and hydra busts well.
Oh and thanks to JGodbout for mentioning me so that I know ^_^ Hmm, I don't get why the guy replaced my wall on LP with the other wall. Seems like it would be much more vulnerable to runby harass on the natural mineral line, as well as giving less pylon coverage for cannons in the minline.
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LegaCy_ is making the wall-off guide addition for Python.
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I will say unfortunately the 12oclock on python is bugged in some maps and that particular wall in does not work, the gateway has to be in a very specific position.
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I fixed images for Python 6/12 o'clock.
The cliff is more visible now, should be much clearer if trying to reproduce the wall-off.
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On November 01 2011 15:35 Kiante wrote:
those type of walls suck tho because you have to kill the pylon to get goons out and its a vulnerable target in case of a hydra bust.
actually it looks like heaps of your walls look like that. Also you shouldn't be FFEing on central plains regardless, because you get a back expo 1 gate with an expo behind it holding the ramp with zealots is superior.
also i really dont like these "have to kill the pylon to get out" walls at all. Sure it makes ling allins a little easier to hold, but 2 space walls are fine for that if you scout properly and have time to pull a couple of probes to plug the gap, then u dont need to make extra pylons and stuff to power your wall after u have to kill the pylon to get out later.
The only reason to do these pylon specific placement in the walling is for; 12nexus (viable vs overpool on FS) / gateway opening. The point is so you can get your timing even faster and require only 1 cannon and 1 zealot. 100 minerals in the mid game is practically free when you save 25 seconds or more on a timed attack which can win you the game.
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http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Protoss_Fast_Expand_Forge_Walling
Added all the current maps from this thread over there. (waiting for the submissions to be reviewed/accepted)
I will keep updating LP section from now on.
Anyone with any good walls that wants to share, just read the OP of this thread for info on getting me to add it to LP for you.
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Guys read the new OP, send some walloff images if you have one that isnt already up on Liquipedia.
To anyone who added walloffs, they have all been added to liquipedia
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I´d figured this would be bumped after yesterday´s games ^^
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Waiting for LP1 "editors"/"reviewers" to accept the new additions this is a draft page accessible to the public.
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This helped a ton, thanks!
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man im behind by 11 maps now because of the new proleague maps. lol
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/forum/wiki_icon.png)
Protoss Fast Expand Forge Walling - draft version for when LP1 Editors/Reviewers are not available.![[image loading]](http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9403/clockwalloff.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9403/clockwalloff.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oDU1N.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AGI6m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yto17.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bMEgq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5eMyV.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3PULc.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E9wth.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KjmEW.png)
