This is in relation to yesterday's game between Hite Sparkyz and MBCGame Hero, Horang2 vs Jaehoon. I'm sure many who've been watching the game was wondering what had happened, so here is the official Fomos article on the issue.
Oh Hyung Jin referee and coaching staffs in disagreement over the coaching staffs' entry into the booths KeSPA scheduled to give disciplinary action against Oh Hyung Jin referee
KeSPA's referees, who've been in the spotlight after causing players to be disqualified in regard to the 'pp' incident and the accidental chat incident, are now once again the hot topic after they allowed coaching staffs to enter their player's booth during a game, while the game was paused.
The incident happened yesterday, 20th of May, 1300KST at the MunRaeDong LOOX MBC Hero Center, set 1 of the game between Hite and MBCGame.
Horang2 asked for a pause request by typing 'pp' as his resource count could not be seen due to wrong monitor resolution settings, and after the KeSPA referee checked the issue, he gave Horang2 a warning for failing to check the settings beforehand and resumed the game.
However, the main issue at hand occurred before the game was resumed. During the pause, Hite's Lee Myung Geun coach as well as a few other coaching staff went into Horang2's booth to talk to him.
Going by Coach Lee's words, he asked "whether the referee can double-check the settings as the settings were normal before the start of the match", and that "the referee agreed to ( the coaches' ) request to talk to the players and check the settings for themselves so as to confirm that the setting was indeed off".
When the game was resumed, MBCGame's Kim Hyuk Seop coach requested for a pause. He argued that "as far as (he) knows, nobody except the referees are allowed to enter the booth once the game has started until the game has ended", and that "since Hite's coaches had entered the booths, the players deserve a rematch." Hite's coach understood the point Coach Kim was trying to make and agreed to a rematch, but under the referee's decision, the game resumed instead of a rematch.
This was a wrong decision made by the referee. Under KeSPA's Starcraft division's rules, section 3, "Nobody except the involved players, the referee and operation personnel are allowed to get on the stage (and the booths)... (etc)".
KeSPA admitted to Oh Hyung Jin referee's mistakes and agreed on taking disciplinary action. KeSPA's match director Lee Jae Hyung said that "Oh Hyung Jin referee's decision to allow Hite Sparkyz's coaching staff to enter the booth was clearly wrong decision-making", and that "they have decided to take disciplinary action against the referee, and that the degree of the action will be decided in time to come."
Under section 1 of the match rules in relation to referees, paragraph 6, it is written that "even if there is a wrong decision-making by the referee during a game, it will be final and it cannot be reversed", and that "any following disciplinary action will be decided by the 'referee's committee'".
On May 21 2009 12:44 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Lol the drama continues. Thanks for sharing kona.
hmm, there's no real drama here imho
anyway, how long after the start of the game did this occur?
First pause was like, when both players made their first pylons in their main, and second pause was around 5~6minutes since the start (including the time taken during the first pause)
I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
Apparently he switched some setting that stopped him from seeing the resource display, so he got a warning for being stupid, basically. Which is fine, IMO.
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
Before the game started, he could see it. Then when the game started, he couldn't. So he requested for a pause, typing 'pp'. KeSPA stopped being a bitch and gave him a warning instead of a DQ for typing 'pp'.
Actually, I was tied up in a mahjong game at the time, and I was worried about missing Leta vs. Hyun. Luckily for me, this drama came along and made the game take like five times as long!
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
Before the game started, he could see it. Then when the game started, he couldn't. So he requested for a pause, typing 'pp'. KeSPA stopped being a bitch and gave him a warning instead of a DQ for typing 'pp'.
i thought they changed the rules? why would it be a warning
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
He received a warning because Kespa is gay.
I actually think you receive a warning regardless of whether or not you deserve it when you pause. KeSPA is getting more headlines than the players. >.>
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
Before the game started, he could see it. Then when the game started, he couldn't. So he requested for a pause, typing 'pp'. KeSPA stopped being a bitch and gave him a warning instead of a DQ for typing 'pp'.
i thought they changed the rules? why would it be a warning
It was indeed a bad call by the ref. Neither player had even scouted each other (if I recall correctly) and a rematch could do no harm.
I'm still boggled why something as trivial as not restarting the game (and allowing the coach in the both) supersedes attention to the crap-judgement we say with the Leta and GoRush DQ's.
EDIT: I believe he received the warning due the fact that it is the player's responsibility to insure that their equipment and settings are working properly before the game is started.
anyone else noticing a huge rash of disciplinary-related incidents in one year alone? its like normal to hear of such things now in 2009 (why?) Strange..
Imo they should allow the teams to mediate any issues among themselves and only intervene if an agreement cannot be found.
ie: I'm sure whatever team was playing against the guy that said "pp," or the one that said "a," or even when Nal_rA accidentally paused would have been fine not taking the WO. I mean they have some honor and common sense.
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
Before the game started, he could see it. Then when the game started, he couldn't. So he requested for a pause, typing 'pp'. KeSPA stopped being a bitch and gave him a warning instead of a DQ for typing 'pp'.
hm from horang2's post game interview im pretty sure he just did the setting really fast and didnt check if he could see the resources then he was like "hmm this shouldnt matter for the game.... oh wait it does pp" then they resized/adjusted monitor settings and it was all good so i am pretty sure the warning was for not doing the setting properly so kespa was completely justified in giving the warning also i thought kespa changed the rule so that any string of ps can be used to request a pause
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
Before the game started, he could see it. Then when the game started, he couldn't. So he requested for a pause, typing 'pp'. KeSPA stopped being a bitch and gave him a warning instead of a DQ for typing 'pp'.
hm from horang2's post game interview im pretty sure he just did the setting really fast and didnt check if he could see the resources then he was like "hmm this shouldnt matter for the game.... oh wait it does pp" then they resized/adjusted monitor settings and it was all good so i am pretty sure the warning was for not doing the setting properly so kespa was completely justified in giving the warning also i thought kespa changed the rule so that any string of ps can be used to request a pause
I'm going to pause my games with pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
Horang2 getting a warning is completely justified because the players are supposed to check if the equipment is working prior to the game. That part's fine.
On May 21 2009 12:50 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I'm still unclear as to why horang recieved a warning. Could he infact see the resource display? or was it for the pp? or did he switch some setting to cause him to not be able to see the display?
Before the game started, he could see it. Then when the game started, he couldn't. So he requested for a pause, typing 'pp'. KeSPA stopped being a bitch and gave him a warning instead of a DQ for typing 'pp'.
hm from horang2's post game interview im pretty sure he just did the setting really fast and didnt check if he could see the resources then he was like "hmm this shouldnt matter for the game.... oh wait it does pp" then they resized/adjusted monitor settings and it was all good so i am pretty sure the warning was for not doing the setting properly so kespa was completely justified in giving the warning also i thought kespa changed the rule so that any string of ps can be used to request a pause
Ah okay, he didn't set properly before the game, read wrongly.
Previous situations have seen the refs hamstrung by poor rules that they had to uphold, but this was just a poor judgment call on the part of the ref. Seems like the correct measures are being taken.
I guess things like this are bound to happen as we make the transition from a cosy little community with give and take to a properly regulated industry. I'm sure when the first generation of coaches were around, nobody would have said anything. They would just have trusted that nothing untoward was happening because they'd be meeting for dinner the week after or something. But that kind of thing stops working as the industry becomes more professional, which I think is good.
On May 21 2009 18:16 Diomedes wrote: He received a warning for typing 'pp'? But Leta got DQed for the same thing under the same rules?
Coach entering the booth, what was he thinking? And how did the ref not notice that and act upon it?
Good actions by Kespa.
do you even read the thread? he didn't get a warning for typing "pp." he got it because he was supposed to check his equipment beforehand. and the rules have changed since the Leta incident.
On May 21 2009 14:36 p4NDemik wrote: Previous situations have seen the refs hamstrung by poor rules that they had to uphold, but this was just a poor judgment call on the part of the ref. Seems like the correct measures are being taken.
I wonder what happens if it's the other way round: a referee taking a decision that is fine with the coaches, players, fans, and common sense, but against the KeSPA rules. What will they do?
On May 21 2009 14:36 p4NDemik wrote: Previous situations have seen the refs hamstrung by poor rules that they had to uphold, but this was just a poor judgment call on the part of the ref. Seems like the correct measures are being taken.
I wonder what happens if it's the other way round: a referee taking a decision that is fine with the coaches, players, fans, and common sense, but against the KeSPA rules. What will they do?
the players are responsible for checking the settings and personal equipments. requesting a pause due to players' own fault is not regarded as legitimate. in this case, it's thought that he failed to check monitor settings and he got a warning.
So he will be punished for something no one gives a shit about (except Kespa apparently) but not for something that makes thousands of fans punch their keyboards? Okay......
On May 21 2009 20:07 barth wrote: So he will be punished for something no one gives a shit about (except Kespa apparently) but not for something that makes thousands of fans punch their keyboards? Okay......
no. it's a big mistake for a ref. that allowing coaches to get on the stage and talk with the players.
On May 21 2009 20:07 barth wrote: So he will be punished for something no one gives a shit about (except Kespa apparently) but not for something that makes thousands of fans punch their keyboards? Okay......
no. it's a big mistake for a ref. that allowing coaches to get on the stage and talk with the players.
Yes because the coaches may tell the players stuff like "your opponent isn't going proxy gate" or something like that. We may never know if they do. That's why it's an important rule.
This is bad news. This incident shows that there is a committee able to punish wrong decision making by referees. No punishments after the "pp" and "a" incidents. So. they think the referees made the correct decision in those respective incidents?
On May 21 2009 21:20 dangots0ul wrote: on more kill for KesPa... this is SOOOOOOOOOOO BULLSHIT. But honestly, what can we do? They don't need us, we need them =(
On May 21 2009 21:12 perx80 wrote: This is bad news. This incident shows that there is a committee able to punish wrong decision making by referees. No punishments after the "pp" and "a" incidents. So. they think the referees made the correct decision in those respective incidents?
Doe anyone even doubt that? Everyone always knew it was illegal to type anything besides the proper way to ask for a pause. In the 'a'-case the rules were very very clear and obviously correctly applied.
On May 21 2009 21:12 perx80 wrote: This is bad news. This incident shows that there is a committee able to punish wrong decision making by referees. No punishments after the "pp" and "a" incidents. So. they think the referees made the correct decision in those respective incidents?
Does everyone even doubt that? Everyone always knew it was illegal to type anything besides the proper way to ask for a pause. In the 'a'-case the rules were very very clear and obviously correctly applied.
Why is everyone so pissed at KeSPA here? As far as I can tell, the only person who fucked up was the ref, first by allowing the Sparkyz coach into the booth, then by not agreeing to have a regame. The warning to Horang2 was totally justified, since it was his fault that he forgot to check his monitor settings. He wasn't DQ'd(which would've been lame), so I don't see what the issue is in this case.
On May 21 2009 23:50 Elyvilon wrote: Why is everyone so pissed at KeSPA here? As far as I can tell, the only person who fucked up was the ref, first by allowing the Sparkyz coach into the booth, then by not agreeing to have a regame. The warning to Horang2 was totally justified, since it was his fault that he forgot to check his monitor settings. He wasn't DQ'd(which would've been lame), so I don't see what the issue is in this case.
We hate Kespa because the refs represent Kespa and their stupid rules. During the game with Horang2, the MBC coach requested a rematch because the Hite coach went into Horang2's booth. The Hite coach also agrees that there should be a rematch but that stupid ref said "no."
This doesn't really bother me. My question is, was his monitor fixed for the game? If so, then i don't see so much wrong with this. Ref fucked up, ref gets in trouble... I don't think the game was altered by the events, so it's acceptable that it continue, although the correct decision would have been rematch. This seems well played by KeSPA in my eyes. I'm trying to believe that they've seen the error of their ways
On May 21 2009 23:50 Elyvilon wrote: Why is everyone so pissed at KeSPA here? As far as I can tell, the only person who fucked up was the ref, first by allowing the Sparkyz coach into the booth, then by not agreeing to have a regame. The warning to Horang2 was totally justified, since it was his fault that he forgot to check his monitor settings. He wasn't DQ'd(which would've been lame), so I don't see what the issue is in this case.
We hate Kespa because the refs represent Kespa and their stupid rules. During the game with Horang2, the MBC coach requested a rematch because the Hite coach went into Horang2's booth. The Hite coach also agrees that there should be a rematch but that stupid ref said "no."
I suppose their trying to placate the netizens with this, but this doesn't seem to be a very big thing to be pursuing. Why dont they hand out disciplinary action to those referees who made those rediculous disqualification calls?
On May 21 2009 23:50 Elyvilon wrote: Why is everyone so pissed at KeSPA here? As far as I can tell, the only person who fucked up was the ref, first by allowing the Sparkyz coach into the booth, then by not agreeing to have a regame. The warning to Horang2 was totally justified, since it was his fault that he forgot to check his monitor settings. He wasn't DQ'd(which would've been lame), so I don't see what the issue is in this case.
We hate Kespa because the refs represent Kespa and their stupid rules. During the game with Horang2, the MBC coach requested a rematch because the Hite coach went into Horang2's booth. The Hite coach also agrees that there should be a rematch but that stupid ref said "no."
So you agree with both me and KeSPA that the ref was at fault in this case?
I mean, KeSPA has done a bunch of bad things, but I don't see what they did wrong here.
On May 21 2009 23:50 Elyvilon wrote: Why is everyone so pissed at KeSPA here? As far as I can tell, the only person who fucked up was the ref, first by allowing the Sparkyz coach into the booth, then by not agreeing to have a regame. The warning to Horang2 was totally justified, since it was his fault that he forgot to check his monitor settings. He wasn't DQ'd(which would've been lame), so I don't see what the issue is in this case.
We hate Kespa because the refs represent Kespa and their stupid rules. During the game with Horang2, the MBC coach requested a rematch because the Hite coach went into Horang2's booth. The Hite coach also agrees that there should be a rematch but that stupid ref said "no."
The ref did not represent Kespa's rules this time as he clearly broke one of the Kespa rules.
Your hate is implemented incorrectly due to your ignorance. You only needed to read the article correctly once to get a good idea of what happened, but obviously you haven't. Don't even try to say anything until you actually know what happened.
Yeah it's so strange. In one case the refs can't do anything because the rules are set in stone, people blame the refs. They just make the judgments they the rules dictate.
Then when the ref does something he shouldn't according to the rules, apparently the asme people blame kespa.
because the coaches can see the screen the casters are watching, thus can see both players screens and therefor could tell his player the other players strategies
lol kespa is running into more and more trouble, pretty soon it'll be hard to figure out what the rules out, it'll be written out in bible form, and followed like laws. Pretty soon there will be a rule for everything and we won't be able to watch any starcraft.
hmm this is all and good but what happens in the proleague finals or something really big, like an ace match? I'm kinda worried that the regulations are so tight now that something wil go wrong and tip the balance of the matches heavily toward one side over the other. Similar to Leta being dq'ed.
On May 21 2009 20:10 Jumperer wrote: KESPA STILL UNDEFEATED
KeSPA is actually 5-2. They lost to Firefist and themselves.
Fixed. Don't forget, they lost to themselves but they also won one against themselves as well.... it's a full scale war upon themselves, a KeSPA civil war...
On May 21 2009 13:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Kespa is seemingly imploding as far as I can see.
I don't understand where the KeSPA hate is coming from on this issue. The rules are quite clear. The ref screwed up. And the ref is being disciplined.
This is an example of KeSPA working correctly! There was a problem with a ref and it is being handled. I only wish more sports would discipline refs more often when they screw up.
On May 21 2009 14:00 Jonoman92 wrote: Imo they should allow the teams to mediate any issues among themselves and only intervene if an agreement cannot be found.
In what professional sport is that allowed? They don't even do that in Junior High School games, let alone games where money is on the line.
On May 21 2009 20:07 barth wrote: So he will be punished for something no one gives a shit about (except Kespa apparently) but not for something that makes thousands of fans punch their keyboards? Okay......
Rules are rules. They have to apply all of the time or none of the time. They should not apply "some of the time when a ref decides they do." Which is why this ref is being disciplined.
On May 22 2009 05:14 uglymoose89 wrote: hmm this is all and good but what happens in the proleague finals or something really big, like an ace match? I'm kinda worried that the regulations are so tight now that something wil go wrong and tip the balance of the matches heavily toward one side over the other. Similar to Leta being dq'ed.
Then maybe people (refs included) will learn what the rules of the game are. That will be better for everyone involved. It'd be great to see the Jaedong vs. Bisu OSL final end in a DQ for <insert player you hate most> breaking the rules and getting called on it. It'd serve as an object lesson that rules need to be followed.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/issue/1242824471_1.jpg)
