Fade Into Oblivion Combined efforts of BW sites catches more hackers
Introduction A new technique discovered by the TL.net user flag has allowed us to catch players using the Oblivion hack or hacks similar to it, even when the hacker has the “autosplit” option turned off.
The validity of this method has been tested and verified through a collaborative effort by replay specialists and administrators at TeamLiquid.net, ICCup.com, GosuGamers.net, SCLegacy.com, and WGTour.com. Currently, teams at all five of these sites are working to uncover and confirm hackers. Please note that this report is not solely speaking for TL.net, but is also speaking for these other four sites. You will find similar reports in the news on these others sites shortly.
The following people have been caught hacking with this method: RoX.Localhost, TT1, Executor, Killah, Excello.Tronic, NaW-SenSei, NaW-PuSh, and sMi.Spades. There are more names under suspicion, but have been omitted here to allow for a more complete and thorough investigation.
Explanation of method When you select units (men/buildings) it is recorded in the replay. However, some map hacks remove the recording of selections on units which are not your own. This happens in any game type (UMS, Melee, etc.) and regardless of the number of players. The reason for this is because previously hackers have been caught by analyzing the replay and finding cases of them clicking on things which they could not see without a map hack. Because selecting an enemy unit is the only way to see things like upgrades, health, build progress, or distinguish buildings that are identical while they build, decent players do this quite often.
In a game over 15 minutes, over 99% of the time a good player will have at least one selection of an enemy unit. All of the players in this list have several games played in a row (which are over 15 minutes) and without ever clicking an enemy unit once. While for only one game, there might be a 1% chance of this happening to even a legitimate player, the chance of this happening 5 times in a row is roughly 1 out of 10 billion.
There are two potential faults to this method of finding map hackers:
The first is that there is some other legitimate SC related program that for whatever reason removes selection of units other than your own. However we have checked some of the more commonly used SC programs (Advloader, APM Live, Chaos Launcher, etc.) and none have done such things. If such a program exists, a falsely accused player would promptly be able to determine it.
The second is that they are simply a player that does not ever select other's units. This is not the case for the players listed above, because when looking at games they played on LAN or with ICCup anti-hack launcher on, they click on enemy units just as much as anyone else.
This second “I never click on enemy units!” excuse may be pleaded by a newbie with an APM of 50, who never checks opponents’ upgrades and waits for buildings to complete to see what they are, but for a non-newbie, scouting is just too much an advantage for a competitive SC player to pass up. In looking through thousands of replays, we have not found one competitive player who frequently never clicks on opponents’ units for multiple games over 15 minutes. But do not simply assume this. We are sure there are newbies out there who never ever click, so if you are gathering data make sure to find replays of that player having many clicks either on LAN or with ICCup anti-hack enabled.
Instructions on how to use the “Flag” Method To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Now BWChart will mark any selection of an opponent's unit as suspicious. When you reload BWChart, go to “Charts” and uncheck all the boxes in the bottom left box instead of “Suspicious” and you should see suspicious events in red.
Lack of any suspicious actions is what is actually suspicious though. When doing this it is important to remember that just because a player has 0 suspicious actions does not mean they are hacking in this game, although the longer the game the stronger evidence it is.
Things to keep in mind:
1. One single replay, especially under 15 minutes, is not solid proof. The proof percentages increase exponentially with multiple games or games played in a series, preferably over 15 minutes.
2. To combat the “I am just a person who never clicks!” defense, find multiple replays of games where the player has many suspicious actions. This should not be hard to find.
Now that this replay method is released, there will be idiots who throw hack accusations back and forth based on one 5 minute replay with no clicks. Please just ignore them, and recognize that the proofs below were done with hours of work and hundreds of replays.
Case by case explanations **Let "clicks" mean selection of opponents units.
Sensei has 13 clickless replays (and none with clicks) from Jan 26 to April 11. Most are multi set matches from clan wars. There are eight other replays of SenSei, provided by the NaW leaders, most from Q-Cup, all of which have many clicks. Download pack here: http://teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/Flag/sensei.zip
Both Sensei and Push, when confronted with the evidence, confessed to being guilty. Here are the official statements:
Statement from NaW-Emerald, Nerds at Work Leader: + Show Spoiler +
These have been dear members of our team so I don't really want to say anything bad about them. They screwed up and for this pointless act they cannot remain in team NaW, meaning they are released with immediate effect. NaW has been around for 4 years and this is our first incident where a team member is involved in serious cheating accusations.
They have been good friends with the team and Push even let me stay at his home and treated me dinner and everything. So I really don’t want to be too harsh against them, even though I think what they did was wrong and I can never support their acts of stupidity.
The team will take a big blow because of this, but I wish both players good luck in their future. We will now look for replacement players.
Sensei – “I have been using this "hack" called [omitted] or something not totally sure about it but it is a map hack. I was sent it through one of my friends NaW-Logic around 3 months ago (after I joined NaW) just before I reached A rank on ICCup in which you could use the hack with the AH loader ON. [Side note: this hack no longer works on ICCup’s AH launcher]. I have been using this hack ever since in all of the events i have played in for the past time. It became addicting to use the hack it made things so much easier even though my level was high without it. With it I could be on par and beat basically all players. I really don’t know what I was thinking it was just an easy way out and before this time I hated hackers just as much myself. For me I will be quitting BW. I guess this is finally my chance to get away from the game and never come back which I have been wanting to do for awhile this is a great excuse to do it and get back to real life and continue with real life studies and plans which were majorly distrupted by BW. I am sorry to team NaW- and any of my other friends that I have played with over the years that I turned to such a low scum way of playing a game and my lesson is learned.
Push – “All I can say is that it was more like a try than competing with it. But it will be done, remove me from the NaW team. Sorry for the bad publicity I made the team and every bullshit that will happen now.”
We know your first impulse will be to flame the NaW team for having hackers. However, please know that Emerald, merz, and many others on the team have cooperated 100% with the investigation by either giving replays or getting confessions. Yes, this team had two hackers, but they did everything humanly possible to get rid of them, and in our opinion acted very professionally.
All 10 games in Ascension, played in February 2008, have 0 clicks, totaling over 80 minutes of game play. All 15 games played in a LAN on Feb 10 have multiple clicks, even averaging over 10 per game. All 9 games played in the Excello Cup, an online tour (Feb 17) using the alias “cruelpoliceman” have 0 clicks, totaling over 2 hours of game play. With a generous estimate of a game having a 10% chance of no clicks (the real value is probably about 1%, but dependent on game length) in any given game played without hack, the chance of these sets having no clicks is 1/10^14, or 1 in one-hundred trillion.
When confronted with the accusation, Localhost provided an FPVOD of one game in one of the Ascension Bo5 series in question. You can download the VOD [url blocked]. What he didn't realize at the time was how he was caught, or that Oblivion or hacks like it do not record unit selections other than your own, even if it is in the “off” or “lite” state. He probably anticipated being accused of hacking at one point so occasionally makes an FPVOD of one game in a set as proof with hack in off mode, but not closed. In the VOD, he clearly selects a creep colony as well as many other things (zerglings, etc.) yet none of these actions are recorded in the replay.
Download replay pack with the games in question here.
Additional games with extraneous proof can be found at replayhome.com, a useful site for investigating all players due to its 75,000+ replays in database.
Since a new method of Oblivion maphack detection was found many players were claimed to be "dirty".
As for our new 2x2 pair (Executor and Killah), the probative force of this method is strong. I have seen it my own, and I can’t challenge the efficiency of the method in their case. All WGT CL replays were marked as "dirty." (it's quite clear when you compare them with ICCUP "clean" ones).
But it is polar opposite in Victor's case (localhost). First, he had "dirty" replays only in Ascension tournament and Excello Cup #1. Assuming localhost is a hacker it's very strange for me, that a hacker is loosing hacked games, winning lots of tournaments (e.g. WGT CL, ICCUP CL, LANs and many online ones) without the hack. Thus I don’t think it is fair to claim him. Moreover, pirate version of software is still a problem for Russia, and gamers often download it and just buy CD-Keys. I mean he could have such a StarCraft copy at home, or at the cafe, where he used to play. Yet we do respect Counter Abuse Team work and understand their efforts to make a clean e-Sport.
We have the following decision. We apologize to Executor and Killah for this may be unfair decision, but we have to release them for RoX. As for Victor, to avoid ambiguity he should be in some sort of quarantine zone. From this time forward he is bounded to record FPVod of all official tournaments or leagues, to upload them as a proof at any moment. I would also like to draw admin's attention on a fact that ALL the replays except Ascension and Excello Cup #1 were "clean". None of us want a questionable decision like MistrZZZ’ one to happen again. And TSL once showed how professional they are, apologized to him after wrong decision. Let this professionalism be now. Not only at TSL, but other portals also.
Thanks for understanding. Very truly yours, Kirill Rus_Brain Patyrykin, Here on behalf of RoX team leader.
We at TeamLiquid.net cannot speak for the other sites like WGT or ICCup, but we can speak for TSL. While Localhost was found only to be using a hack in Ascension and Excello Cup #1 but not in WGT CL, ICCup CL or various other tournaments, we cannot make that distinction here. He not only violated our policy of hacking within the past year, but repeatedly lied and attempted to deceive us with an FPVOD. Localhost will be removed from the current TSL.
We respect the wishes of the RoX team and applaud their decisions in the cases of Executor and Killah (more on them later on). We hope that in the future Localhost's name can be cleared and that the measures to ensure his future fair play are effective.
Disciplinary action for events under the jurisdiction of the other sites will be detailed in their respective newsposts. Please note that no other RoX players were found to have "dirty" replays using this method.
***Special Update*** More "dirty" replays of Localhost have been found in GG.net's "Masters of the Craft" money tournament. Please recognize that the statements above made by RoX managers were before this new information, and they are re-evaluating the situation in light of this new information. We thank the RoX team for supporting and validating this method.
In a replay pack from WGT tour around May 2007, there are 54 games played under the alias “aqua66,” none of which have any clicks. In 5 recent games played outside of the TSL there are no clicks (games are from idg clan war versus Mistrzzz and miscellaneous games versus Moonek and Haypro). In his games in the TSL, all games we have seen have many clicks, but a few with none can most likely be found if you check all 250. Generous mathematical chance of TT1 having no clicks (occurring naturally) is 1 in 10^59.
When confronted with the evidence against him, TT1 claimed that he had lent his WGT account to a friend and that it was not him playing those games. However, one of the games played under “aqua66” versus Skew, TT1 put into a replay pack of himself released here.
Hotkey analysis by Romad and Midian also verify that it was actually TT1 playing under aqua66 (while there may be a very few games played by his friend).
The sad part about this is that TT1 is currently in the Top 16 of the TSL ladder, hosted on ICCup which we have not yet found a replay where he is “dirty.” He has made statements to Manifesto and Hot_Bid that promise that he does not hack anymore and that his TSL games are clean, which we believe. He also promises to make FPVODs of all matches in an effort to clean his reputation.
While we appreciate the sentiment and meaning behind his words, it is quite clear that he has hacked within the past year, as recently as February 2008. This violates the policy of the TSL of hacking within the past year so TT1 will be disqualified and removed from the TSL. To some of you this punishment may seem harsh given the number of clean games he’s played, and to some of you this punishment may not seem harsh enough. TT1 has made several false statements, and it is our decision in this case to stick with our rule.
Of Executor’s last approximately 18 games from ReplayHome here, only one has clicks in it. It was an hour long game and there were no clicks for the first 50 minutes and then there are many clicks for the rest of the game, this is most likely because for whatever reason he closed the hack completely at this point in the game. If you look beyond the first 20 replays, in older games, most of the games have a normal amount of clicks.
In the past Executor has been found to have recieved a loss after playing an UMS game here. This was caused by Blizzard's Warden program, which determined him to be hacking. Later he was found (link here) to have a replay with an action at the beginning which can only be caused by a program called Warden Watch which prevents you from getting a loss after such games where you hack. It was deemed not enough evidence because it only proved he used a hack, not a map hack.
There are no replays available of Killah playing recently without Executor as his partner. They are friends as evident by the fact that they changed clans together, and he helped defended Executor, and they are always a 2v2 team. Of the 33 clickless games played by Executor, 17 are 2v2's with Killah as his partner. Looking at older games, they both have had many clicks in their 2v2's and they both stopped having them at the exact same time.
***Executor and Killah both recently left Los Reyes Del Mambo (LRM).
There are 10 recent clickless replays of Tronic from clan wars and miscellaneous matches. Most of these are multi set matches and many of the games are very long (30-40 minutes). Also included is a replay pack provided by Tronic himself (in his defense) which is mostly older games all which have clicks. http://teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/Flag/Tronic.rar
When confronted with the evidence, Excello.Tronic claimed that he simply never clicks enemy units, or that the proof was mathematically flawed. However this is not likely because older matches (before a hack, or this particular hack was used) had many clicks, and recent games there are none. The chance of Tronic having zero clicks occurring naturally only in non-ICCup matches (WGTCL clan wars) after a certain date is virtually 0%.
Tronic is in a leadership position with Team Excello, and while we understand that it is difficult to break trust with friends and teammates when such accusations are leveled against them, the weight of the evidence is so strong that it cannot be ignored.
We acknowledge this stubborn loyalty to their player Tronic, bu choosing to dismiss this method in the face of such overwhelming evidence when so many others have accepted it can only hurt Excello in the future. Please note that Tronic was the only Excello player to have been caught with this method.
***Special Update*** Tronic is apparently stepping down from his admin position on Excello.
All 14 games played in the Yankee League (Jan to April) are clickless (replays not publicly released). 72 games played in WGT ladder http://rapidshare.com/files/98162605/WGT_LADDER.rar where most of the games there have clicks. However a fair number of these games, roughly 15% are clickless, however many are short games. Spades either hacked some there too, or doesn't click enemy units as much as other players. Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt and say in any game he plays without hack there is a 20% chance no clicks, the chance of playing all 14 games of the Yankee League is 0.2**14 = 1 in 6103515625. There is further supporting evidence (check Spades’ WGTCL matches), but the Yankee League provides the clearest proof (pending Xeris releasing the Spades’ replays to the public).
You can download other games here or a compilation of clan wars/etc sets without clicks here.
I planned on providing an estimation of the chance of each player being innocent, but it was getting repetitive. A generous estimation of clickless to click-filled games is 1 in 10, but that is assuming a 10% ratio of clickless games, when the actual number is closer to 1%, but varies by player. This does not mean if you find twp replays of Mondragon or White-Ra (I have yet to see even one after seeing hundreds of his replays due to the wide variety of opponents they face) not clicking that there is a 99% chance hacks, the games must be a decent length, preferably consecutive, and multiple in number to show they are not flukes.
[u]Conclusion We applaud the teams that have cooperated with us (NaW and RoX) and so should you, as they are taking proactive steps to maintain the integrity of their team and members, and we look forward in cooperating with them in the future to ensure fair play.
We also urge the community to support the efforts of the players and administrators who worked so hard to make this and other anti-hack announcements possible, and to trust in the collective judgment of TeamLiquid.net, GosuGamers.net, ICCup.com, WGTour.com, and SCLegacy.com.
You also have all the information in front of you, and you as the public can make a decision along with the joint judgment from these five sites. Please keep in mind that in addition to a consensus of the method's validity from the major Brood War news and ladder sites, we have the support of two teams whose players have been named, and two confessions from players who have been caught.
Thanks to Sn3t, Walen, Juppi, Boone, Yello-ant and Scythe from ICCup; Mazor, Raistlin, Pogdi, Vilda, and Artanis from GosuGamers; LordofAscension from SCLegacy; DKnight, Emerald, and Insane from WGTour; and Hot_Bid, Kennigit, Manifesto, and R1CH from TeamLiquid. Also thanks to Artosis, Nony, Xeris, and others for providing replays and testing the methodology. Lastly, thanks to flag for his ingenuity in discovering the method and countless hours collecting and analyzing replays.
We thank all the players currently competing in the TeamLiquid StarLeague who do not let the cheating actions of a few stand between them and fair play. We will continue to work hard to ensure a safe, honest environment and foster an atmosphere of professionalism in our events. We cannot speak for other sites, but we believe that they will also conform to such standards in events under their jurisdiction.
We hope that in the future ladders and tournaments will remain hack free, and that this spirit of cooperation between major SC:BW sites continues.
To be serious for a moment though, I just wish people would realize that the amount of work these cheaters cause the organizers of the community reduces the amount of work we can do for other things. It ruins it for everyone. Im probably jsut shouting down a well here though.
Push got owned. There was a lot of rumors among our dying Franch bw community but i didnt think that he was an hacker because the first guy who accused Push to hack was the lamest guy ever, Myst. He bragged about how he deserved aninvite in Tot) more than Sarens ahahah and now he might be the next admin of Fra A. Life is funny, but now i understand why all his LAN results sucked.
trust no one mr Mulder who believed that tt1 would... question to admins : consequences for these players are ? permanent ban in all international/non-international tourneys ?
Thank YOU tl.net for all the tremendous work that has made this possible. Although I'm very saddened by the fact that some of these players are getting banned, I'm bound to agree that they have to be punished.
Wow. Excellent job guys. I am incredibly happy that such a solid stance has been taken against hacking. And I am even more happy that the foreign BW community came together this way to stamp out the scum.
I'm so glad this was done, it is about time the community cleans out the clutter. Although it really does make me sad to see some of the more respectable players leaving the tournament, as well as the Starcraft foreign scene (Hopefully they won't be allowed to trash Starcraft anymore), it is about time there is a league that is legitimate and uses measures to make sure people are playing without haX.
I am really surprised about Localhost though. That is saddening. But I'm sure Spades is going to commit suicide after making a comment to Artosis that "[Artosis] isn't on [his] level."
Burn in hell idiots you are the worst scum ever. TT1 I don't wanna have anything to do with you anymore go die a painful death. Executor + Push you fuckers dared to insult me when I told everyone you were maphacking YOU ARE FUCKING TRASH. God bless oblivion, best antihack ever.
Excellent write up, you picked up the slack where I lack (writing). Also I really want to thank HotBid for his help with providing replay packs, challenging the method, and support, as well as using his hookups to contact other site admins and players.
Anyone who also likes to try and catch hackers feel free to check replays, its easy to find potential hackers (although making a case that is undeniable takes a little more effort).
Good fucking riddance to all the hackers. Looks like you're all getting what you deserve, hopefully you guys have the decency to leave and never come back.
Very, VERY nice write up. I think it's much better to go at it this way instead of "hey, we have a 101% sure method to find hackers but we can't tell you how we do it".
Only thing i'm sorry about is that for all the hard work you guys (admin team from TL + the guys from the other sites that helped out) put in this thing, you only get scarce "GJ's". Anyway, i'm sure all the clean players appreciate this, as well as the mere bystanders like myself, although they/we don't always post a message saying "Thank You!".
Professional managing happens again, only in TSL congrats.
It's awesome in the same way it's not awesome. Can't just people learn that hacking and abusing is not the way to go if you really want to experience the game and become better? It's like cheating on a test, it will only make it even harder next time you make a test
Why don't you use a screenshot client that takes screenshots every now and then and uploads them to a server? A solution used successfully at r60 funleague (swedish CS 1.6 sommunity).
Of course it requires a player logged in to a server that it can upload to, but if you hardly notice any HD-lag/upload lag when playing an FPS, I doubt this will give any problems with BW (who also has lower screen resolution resulting in even smaller picture sizes.
On April 20 2008 23:20 Luhh wrote: Why don't you use a screenshot client that takes screenshots every now and then and uploads them to a server? A solution used successfully at r60 funleague (swedish CS 1.6 sommunity).
Of course it requires a player logged in to a server that it can upload to, but if you hardly notice any HD-lag/upload lag when playing an FPS, I doubt this will give any problems with BW (who also has lower screen resolution resulting in even smaller picture sizes.
55,000 games played in the tsl... say 10 pics a game... half a million pictures to look at.
as i told mani, i sent a 44 mb pack of all my games since more then 6 months to him to investigate but his decision was made already, ive sent every game ive played on tsl to him and they found nothing, its their tournament its their decision and i respect it, anyone can think whatever they want
edit: the one thing you might not understand is a player that hacks on b.net then tries to play on a hack-free environment (executor is top 3 on gg.net rankings beating every top non korean but barely makes it to b- and loses to clan leader admins on iccup cl), if i really was a hacker i should be doing amazingly good on b.net games and horribly on iccup instead of doing good on iccup and performing so poorly on b.net games, but words remain words and actions remain acrtions so i wont argue anymore
I vaguely remember a blog with some guy saying he found a new way to detect hackers and asking for rep packs or something. And then Hot_Bid asked him to share it with TSL admins and the whole thing disappeared. I knew then awesome would happen. Didn't expect it to be this awesome though. Fantastic work. Sucks for TT1 but end of the day, nobody doubted his skill as a legit gamer, they doubted his integrity. It's a pity someone as good as him cannot put down the hacks.
On April 20 2008 23:31 wurm wrote: At least two of those caught had the balls to admit they did hack, so you can't really compare them to those that adamantly deny hacking.
They are all scum regardless they admit it or not. End of the story.
On April 20 2008 23:33 TT1 wrote: as i told mani, i sent a 44 mb pack of all my games since more then 6 months to him to investigate but his decision was made already, ive sent every game ive played on tsl to him and they found nothing, its their tournament its their decision and i respect it, anyone can think whatever they want
I understand how frustrating that must be but you really have yourself to blame. Sending a pack of all your games that you picked out? How is that going to prove anything.
it is quite clear that he has hacked within the past year, as recently as February 2008
That's 2 months ago, reason enough not to want you in the tournament.
axel, the method would have come out fairly soon. To many people would have needed to know (clan leaders etc.) the method used for it to remain a secret. Added to that, it would have just caused unnecessary flaming again.
On April 20 2008 23:54 IdrA wrote: well the method is still valid until someone writes a hack that works around it(although that probably wont take too long)
Yeah I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to script it to have it select a random enemy unit in sight at certain intervals.
On April 20 2008 23:20 Luhh wrote: Why don't you use a screenshot client that takes screenshots every now and then and uploads them to a server? A solution used successfully at r60 funleague (swedish CS 1.6 sommunity).
Of course it requires a player logged in to a server that it can upload to, but if you hardly notice any HD-lag/upload lag when playing an FPS, I doubt this will give any problems with BW (who also has lower screen resolution resulting in even smaller picture sizes.
55,000 games played in the tsl... say 10 pics a game... half a million pictures to look at.
/ends life
Of course the pics would only be looked at if a complaint was raised, and since they are named after the player login to the server. Then deleted after a certain period of time.. (at r60 the pics are thumbnailed from profile, but maybe the sheer volume could be a problem for the server. Dunno.) Therefor, the admins pretty much only has to verify what another players has seen on someone elses profile, from link. *shrugs*
Traffic would be bigger for ICCUP, But still, 1 CS match. 10 players, 40 minutes on server. 20 pics/player, 2000 pics just there.
TT1 remember ALL those times you claimed to not hack? Did it make you feel odd sitting at home making such lies? What about when you found other hackers.. did you feel oddly hypocritical? See those sites alligned on the OP of this thread? Yeah, that means you can do what you were supposed to do awhile back NEVER GAME WITH THE NON KOREAN COMMUNITY AGAIN. I hope it burns you inside to know that after it is all said and done you were the fucking asshole caught with his dick in a hole in the wall.
Spades you fucking asshole. I don't even know you but it feels great to see someone get caught.
Tronic first clickless player in the history of bw, he's not a hacker you guys.. m'cereal. The other admins defended him on Excello too what bs.
TT1 remember ALL those times you claimed to not hack? Did it make you feel odd sitting at home making such lies? What about when you found other hackers.. did you feel oddly hypocritical? See those sites alligned on the OP of this thread? Yeah, that means you can do what you were supposed to do awhile back NEVER GAME WITH THE NON KOREAN COMMUNITY AGAIN. I hope it burns you inside to know that after it is all said and done you were the fucking asshole caught with his dick in a hole in the wall.
Spades you fucking asshole. I don't even know you but it feels great to see someone get caught.
Tronic first clickless player in the history of bw, he's not a hacker you guys.. m'cereal. The other admins defended him on Excello too what bs.
theres still a way to prove myself and when that day comes we'll have this discussion again
Yeah, so you can play well without hacking. Great stuff. Still you've hacked plenty of times and lied about it continuously. You have nothing left to prove.
TT1 I get it... you dont hack in all games in fact NON of the iccup games. That does nothing for me except PROVE how dumb you are. If you can get top 16 on TSL but somewhere in your lil brain still have the lack of foresite to DL and use a hack then you are a good SC player who is fucking retarded. There is no "proving" you are clean or anything. YOU HACKED. RECENTLY. You're gone. TL.net has pushed for a new era, one where hackers are ALIENATED like they always should have been.
Haha those people are so funny. Do you want to say program got all hackers and some "angels" ? ROFL. "Yes Executor hacker, Push hacker, but i'm not". But the method is the same... OFC you are hacker... About TSL and TT1. It's ofc your decision, but i think if you banned hungtran, oldy and other ex-hackers, you have to ban him too. TT1 i have nothing personal against you, but it's true.
When 'flag' posted this in his blog, it was so vague that I didn't think it could be true.
But this is amazing. Props to him and the entire staff at tl.
I am somewhat sad that the method has been released to the public, as a counterhack is probably already in the making, but I wholeheartedly support the staff's integrity in explaining things to the public rather than disqualifying "randomly".
you guys are too harsh with TT1, he is not a hacker anymore. i dont think he should be banned from TSL. poor guy i dont think that banning someone who was a hacker years ago is fair.
On April 21 2008 00:38 ilbh wrote: you guys are too harsh with TT1, he is not a hacker anymore. i dont think he should be banned from TSL. poor guy i dont think that banning someone who was a hacker years ago is fair.
how is not fair, think of all the clanwars they ruined
how many online competitions and small tournaments they ruined
no offence to MgZ), but their results came off a hacker line-up for years (Oldy, TT1), now they are sponsored and their players make money. Other teams who lost to them who didn't have hackers didn't get sponsors and their players don't make money etc. etc.
Succes-story hackers like Testie or to a lesser extend trek is what makes these people think they can hack and still be respected, but fuck that, hackers should not get 2nd chances.
On April 21 2008 00:38 ilbh wrote: you guys are too harsh with TT1, he is not a hacker anymore. i dont think he should be banned from TSL. poor guy i dont think that banning someone who was a hacker years ago is fair.
On April 21 2008 00:46 NonY[rC] wrote: Getting caught hacking once deserves a life ban from all competitive events.
Do you even think that about Testie? He earned back his respect in the community. But since he hacked once, do you think he deserved a life ban from everything?
On April 20 2008 23:20 Luhh wrote: Why don't you use a screenshot client that takes screenshots every now and then and uploads them to a server? A solution used successfully at r60 funleague (swedish CS 1.6 sommunity).
Of course it requires a player logged in to a server that it can upload to, but if you hardly notice any HD-lag/upload lag when playing an FPS, I doubt this will give any problems with BW (who also has lower screen resolution resulting in even smaller picture sizes.
55,000 games played in the tsl... say 10 pics a game... half a million pictures to look at.
/ends life
I think he has a point actually. Nobody has to look at all the screenshots to check them exhaustively. The simple fact they are available should be deterrent enough. For even higher success, here's an idea : give everyone access to see the screenshots. This effectively makes it a distributed hackers finding system, and no single person has to check a ton of replays, many people will be checking a few of them. If someone is suspicious he can always go check his opponent's screenshots after the game and report them if there is foul play. Admins can check them after a complaint. It's simple yet beautiful. Until the day someone is dedicated enough to hack the screenshotting client, but I'm not sure any of the usual programmers would care enough to write a hack that defeats it, since they have no real incentive to do it.
On April 21 2008 00:50 ret wrote: Succes-story hackers like Testie or to a lesser extend trek is what makes these people think they can hack and still be respected, but fuck that, hackers should not get 2nd chances.
I hereby introduce a new theorem :
Any long enough maphack related thread will always testie and/or trek mentionned.
On April 21 2008 00:46 NonY[rC] wrote: Getting caught hacking once deserves a life ban from all competitive events.
Do you even think that about Testie? He earned back his respect in the community. But since he hacked once, do you think he deserved a life ban from everything?
TT1 remember ALL those times you claimed to not hack? Did it make you feel odd sitting at home making such lies? What about when you found other hackers.. did you feel oddly hypocritical? See those sites alligned on the OP of this thread? Yeah, that means you can do what you were supposed to do awhile back NEVER GAME WITH THE NON KOREAN COMMUNITY AGAIN. I hope it burns you inside to know that after it is all said and done you were the fucking asshole caught with his dick in a hole in the wall.
Spades you fucking asshole. I don't even know you but it feels great to see someone get caught.
Tronic first clickless player in the history of bw, he's not a hacker you guys.. m'cereal. The other admins defended him on Excello too what bs.
I just spoke with the Excello admins again, and apparently Tronic is stepping down now.
Batard Payam, tu veux vraiment gagner à ce point? T'es dans la vingtaine, c'est le temps que tu matures un peu...
Did I see VAGINA!
GOTTA CATCH THEM ALL!
I feel embarrassed by this, to have respected gamers hacking is something that should never happen. Fuck you all and you should burn in hell, go and hack on Princess Barbie's magical land for fuckwits.
On April 21 2008 00:46 NonY[rC] wrote: Getting caught hacking once deserves a life ban from all competitive events.
Not even popular professional sports have life time bans. Not for first time offenders anyway. Of course there are countless types of sports worldwide, so there may be sports organizations that punish first time offenders with a life time ban, but generally that's not the case.
WGT beta was well over 1 year and out of any new recent replays that i have out which is well over 1k reps online (with the release of this reppack and other games) you found 5 games in total, 2 games vs mistrzzz (1 game wasnt even 8min and the other was 13 min, 1 game vs haypro? 17 mins etc.), how is it possible that during or around the same time i played these games and on my other reps i have suspc. actions on every game? give me 1k reps of a player and i think ill find reps of him not having any suspc actions by targeting random replays out of alot of games, especially the short ones
On April 21 2008 01:24 TT1 wrote: WGT beta was well over 1 year and out of any new recent replays that i have out which is well over 1k reps online (with the release of this reppack and other games) you found 5 games in total, 2 games vs mistrzzz (1 game wasnt even 8min and the other was 13 min, 1 game vs haypro? 17 mins etc.), how is it possible that during or around the same time i played these games and on my other reps i have suspc. actions on every game? give me 1k reps of a player and i think ill find reps of him not having any suspc actions by targeting random replays out of alot of games, especially the short ones
Take you ill-conceived logic somewhere people want to hear it.
TT1 has been a victim of circumstance! He is realeasing replays like mad to try and reveal that he is being targeted by an elaborate scheme aimed at character assassinating one of the communities brightest stars! "If I hacked why would I release 1k replays," stated TT1. Evidence mounts that he is actually a giant douche who thinks somehow that hacking only some of the time is ok and fine and that the sheer weight of his legit games will somehow sweep the hacked ones under the carpet. More on faggots later.
[Zerg] [Iran] TT1 3 4-5 reps were found of my recent games within 1 year which arnt even an average game lenght of 10 mins in total from 1k reps ,while all the other reps are completly normal with suspc. actions(which can be dled from all the bw sites and the pack i uploaded of over like 800reps of myself which are all the most recent games ive played) and after ive performed on iccup since 1 year and got into the top 16 while the other real hackers can barely break b- and lose to admins in iccup cl games while i lose every cw on b.net (which allows u to hack)which was the main reason i left excello and perform better on iccup(which is antihack),
ive already found 2 reps of the most famous player with no actions under 10 mins out of 159 reps ive watched from him, ill find 3 more reps and then lets see if hes going to get banned or if this was because of my reputation, i understand that theres no way to prove that you dont hack until you perform well at a lan like testie and trek did and this is the only way to prove yourself, until then your always going to be looked upon negativly
still arguing fkin hell...tl bans him now hes on gg -.-
On April 21 2008 01:46 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HAHAH tt1 LOL
Headlines!
Former Hacker is anomally in current scandal
TT1 has been a victim of circumstance! He is realeasing replays like mad to try and reveal that he is being targeted by an elaborate scheme aimed at character assassinating one of the communities brightest stars! "If I hacked why would I release 1k replays," stated TT1. Evidence mounts that he is actually a giant douche who thinks somehow that hacking only some of the time is ok and fine and that the sheer weight of his legit games will somehow sweep the hacked ones under the carpet. More on faggots later.
On April 21 2008 01:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote: st-kassios- up and coming french A player supposedly caught now
Yup 4G.Ninja found that he had several suspicious replays without ennemy unit selection.
-.- Omg he was the best player in sT and was a beast in PvP ( he beat white-ra and TT1 ( lol ^^ ) 2-0 not so long ago ). But well if you can see your opponent bo ...
That is sad because Kassios seemed to be way more mannered than Push and at least as skilled in PvP / PvT.
Omg we lost two of Fra A players, please SarenS / Jules be more active and save the honor of the team....
Now, can you imagine, how do those guys, who are in top48 and hack, have to feel now? THEY HAVE TO GIVE THEIR REPLAY PACK IN 22HOURS 50MINUTES!!! HAVE TO ACT FAAAAAST!!
On April 21 2008 01:03 cRaZypYRo wrote: BW-Space, T.SQD)Rubz and faculty.Zarrr hack!
Rubz did have 2replays in a cw vs us where he did not select anything, but those were fairly short games and in other wgtcl replays he does select something, but very rarely. Maybe it is just his style not to select alot. I really don't think he is a hacker.
You should be really carefull with bringing out accusations like this though. As you see in the OP they use at least ~13reps to back them up, you cant just start flaming around with no proof at all. If you can prove it why not post the proof from the start on???
Anyway, great job in uncovering this! I really appreciate the work you guys have put into finding these hackers. It might be only me, but a warm thank you to all those who put their time into creating a hackfree environment for all of us!
On April 21 2008 00:46 NonY[rC] wrote: Getting caught hacking once deserves a life ban from all competitive events.
Do you even think that about Testie? He earned back his respect in the community. But since he hacked once, do you think he deserved a life ban from everything?
Yes and yes. I don't care about rehabilitation in this matter.
I have a few thoughts on this. First, I think that Flag should get a star by his username, for special contributions to the site. He caused hackers a world of pain
Second, are all these replays saved by the hacker? What I'm getting at, is that I don't know how the hacks work, but replays saved by the hacker might appear different than replays saved by the other guy. If that's the case, its a lot easier to look for discrepancies between two files.
Also, I have to say that this really doesn't make me as estatic as some others. Think about the people in clans with hackers, who they thought was their friend. People with teammates caught cheating have both their integrity called into question, and the basis for friendship removed. A hacking scandal must really hurt a lot of people, and the innocent victims of this have my symphathy and admiration.
Please BAN these guys forever and from EVERY competition on the planet, put their REAL NAME and SURNAME for everyone to know, these people can play the CPU for the rest of their BW career, is really UNBEALIAVABLE that there are still people with such a low intelligente and honesty.
The saddest thing is they try to hack a system u made for the community to grow and enjoy, everyone is so happy about this League ... what you just found out make these people such SMALL person ...
No mercy please, i am tired of cheaters just like everyone else.
SENSEI: "With it I could be on par and beat basically all players" no man you were not "on par" you were CHEATING you KNOW? You are not being on par, you are fucking CHEATING and you are an idiot with no BALLS.
PUSH: "Sorry for the bad publicity I made the team and every bullshit that will happen now" No man ... the only BULLSHIT here it's YOU
TT1 remember ALL those times you claimed to not hack? Did it make you feel odd sitting at home making such lies? What about when you found other hackers.. did you feel oddly hypocritical? See those sites alligned on the OP of this thread? Yeah, that means you can do what you were supposed to do awhile back NEVER GAME WITH THE NON KOREAN COMMUNITY AGAIN. I hope it burns you inside to know that after it is all said and done you were the fucking asshole caught with his dick in a hole in the wall.
Spades you fucking asshole. I don't even know you but it feels great to see someone get caught.
Tronic first clickless player in the history of bw, he's not a hacker you guys.. m'cereal. The other admins defended him on Excello too what bs.
theres still a way to prove myself and when that day comes we'll have this discussion again
I believe TT1 when he says he did not hack in the TSL, and I believe he is a good player. I do not support life time ban, and I hope TT1 does make a return, with lesson learned.
I'm sad that people play the game they love using the only thing that destroys fun - hack. My respect to everyone involved in cleaning up SC trash, you're awesome!
I haven't found a game of myself over 15 minutes that has no enemy stuff selected. So several replays of players with double my APM surely means something is very odd. Solid way to catch hackers if it's a hack artifact.
Well done.
Yes, it's harsh for those who didn't cheat in TSL. But it's your own fault.
I do think hackers should get a second chance eventually. But yeah they have to earn back the respect.
First off all, I got only one replay from BW-Space because I don't have any more ^^.. then I have 5 replays from T.Sqd)Rubz from yesterday where he had hacked.
On April 21 2008 00:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote: TT1 I get it... you dont hack in all games in fact NON of the iccup games. That does nothing for me except PROVE how dumb you are. If you can get top 16 on TSL but somewhere in your lil brain still have the lack of foresite to DL and use a hack then you are a good SC player who is fucking retarded. There is no "proving" you are clean or anything. YOU HACKED. RECENTLY. You're gone. TL.net has pushed for a new era, one where hackers are ALIENATED like they always should have been.
On April 21 2008 02:39 MrOwMrOw wrote: Junii as well...his team mate saying he hacks on gg...how many reps do u need to analyze this hack...
its turning into a witch hunt...
I have screenshots of junii admitting hacks and replays where he used minhack vs me (although that was a joke game) I've known for some time junii hacks. I've just never thought him important enough to mention. But yeah, a few clanmates of mine checked replays and did a confirm using this method so junii = hacker.
I just looked briefly at the 5 TT1 games, and there do not seem to be blatant hack like moves. In fact, that game vs zerg on blue storm, he played so bad its hard to believe he hacked.
So there is a little part of me that thinks maybe TT1 just plays bad sometimes and does not select enemy units, also his APM is pretty low. I also randomly found one 11 minute game from TSL numbered 2077 vs Sea.Onfire which does not have any selects either.
To be honest, I think it was kind of a silly move to release the method before the TSL is over - Past the iccup qualifiers there's a lot more at stake and a lot more incentive for people who have never hacked previously to start.
On April 21 2008 03:00 Hot_Bid wrote: DNA]LunacticX[ hey, oblivion is detectable again. they found a method to catch hackers. fix it please. see here ***Hackers Caught !!
nano351 doesn't matter blizzard can't catch and ban you.
DNA]LunacticX[ i don't care abou blizzard...on competitive level it has to be safe.
Zynastor interesting, but i guess they will be disappointed with v3.0.7 when that method will no longer work.
This zynastor guy has basically been sabotaging foreign starcraft ever since he started making hacks.
On April 21 2008 02:58 Hot_Bid wrote: It's too bad this is already posted on BWHacks and they're already saying that it won't work when the next version comes out.
On April 21 2008 03:00 Hot_Bid wrote: DNA]LunacticX[ hey, oblivion is detectable again. they found a method to catch hackers. fix it please. see here ***Hackers Caught !!
nano351 doesn't matter blizzard can't catch and ban you.
DNA]LunacticX[ i don't care abou blizzard...on competitive level it has to be safe.
Zynastor interesting, but i guess they will be disappointed with v3.0.7 when that method will no longer work.
This zynastor guy has basically been sabotaging foreign starcraft ever since he started making hacks.
Make frieds with enemies! Has anybody ever tried to talk to that guy? I can imagine, that making hacks for him is like a big challenge, so maybe there's a way to compromise with him or even use his knowledge to develop anti-hacks. That would be awesome... only 'would be' i guess... T_T
[Terran] [Europe] uT)KingJUnii Yeah, i've been using oblivion for a while.. and most of my friend know it but in friendly games that are semi-serious I haven't maphacked once.
On April 21 2008 02:54 Xeofreestyler wrote: Cant we just find the person who created oblivion and uhh .. have him killed or something?
Obviously hacking cannot be condoned, but the blame rests on the hackers, not the people who area "enabling" them to hack. People are free to program whatever the hell they want. Its the players who must resist the temptation. In terms of overall software engineering, people are always on the lookout for exploits and vulnerabilities. People are actually employed to try to hack into systems. The overall effect is healthy development. The "beneficial" argument of hack development is more murky when it comes to the gaming community. I will say this however. Without maphacks, which have existed since the earliest days of sc/bw, we would not today have blizzard's warden, iccup's antihack, and perhaps some of the features in bwcharts. There will still be people with cheating mindsets, but they would have gone undetected.
Bottom line: it's a good thing that people are making maphacks which are purportedly "undetectable." Those with cheating mindsets will be drawn to use those hacks, and when a detection method comes along (as it inevitably does), they will be flushed out. I admit it's a bit of a twisted argument to make, but these hack writers, even though they have different intentions when writing the hack, are HELPING the community catch hackers (eventually), through "entrapment." Again, resisting the temptation to hack is the PLAYER'S OWN RESPONSIBILITY.
Wishing to have this person murdered is not the appropriate response.
On April 21 2008 03:05 Tropics wrote: To be honest, I think it was kind of a silly move to release the method before the TSL is over - Past the iccup qualifiers there's a lot more at stake and a lot more incentive for people who have never hacked previously to start.
The TSL runs on iCCup though with the iCCup antihack, which detects this and many other hacks. Releasing the method won't change anything as replays from older games pre-TSL on non-iCCup servers are the ones being examined to check for hackers. As far as I'm aware, all TSL replays are clean.
localhost just returned from his weekend trip and commented on the situation on REPS.ru. I made a quick translation:
I'm not a hacker. I didn't use maphack or any other kind of hack in any of the official games I played. Inside our team on training games we occasionally use maphack, having warned each other. It's a part of the training process that we use to improve timing, vision is not that useful as it reveals stealthed units. It could happen that I, not having relaunched SC, played a couple of games in off mode right after training games.
I consider the method of revealing hackers a logical one, but not with a 100% guarantee. They <I guess he means TL> say themselves that not all people use select on enemy units and buildings. It's not always viable to click on enemy units ingame, especially in a time constraint situation.
I've just recorded a couple of VODs from the games of Ascension, the ones that are being used as evidence. 7 or 8 days ago I was contaced by Hot_Bid who was interested by those games and maphack. I took all action to be helpful in the situation and even sent him a VOD that proves my innocence. Hot_Bid was very surprised by what he saw in that video.
I'm clean and I ask not to be banned from the leagues. Why does my team has to suffer from the trial caused by a controversial moment in a game by a single player?
The very organizers of TSL, teamliquid.net in their official statement confirmed that their decision only concerns TSL: "We at TeamLiquid.net cannot speak for the other sites like WGT or ICCup, but we can speak for TSL. While Localhost was found only to be using a hack in Ascension and Excello Cup but not in WGT CL, ICCup CL or various other tournaments, we cannot make that distinction here. He violated our policy of hacking within the past year and will be removed from the current TSL". (they have no claims about my games on WGT or iCCup)
Note that his post is directed towards the russian community so some of the points are not relevant. However, it seems really weak to be able to counter the evidence in any way. My personal opinion is a mixed one, localhost was doing quite well at WCG Russia, there is little point for him to hack. But well, some people do it pointlessely, that happens. =(
I feel bad somewhat. Until this day, my nation proudly wore the banner of being hacker-free. Not anymore, not anymore...
lol this just made me realise how little i click on enemy shit As zerg i dont really click on enemy shit too much apparently unless im useing scourges my p and t has clicks not alot either >-<
I consider the method of revealing hackers a logical one, but not with a 100% guarantee. They <I guess he means TL> say themselves that not all people use select on enemy units and buildings. It's not always viable to click on enemy units ingame, especially in a time constraint situation.
IMO this is just BS from localhost. Once in awhile it is possible to have a short game where enemy units/buildings are not clicked, certainly. But in the vast majority of cases, I would say 99% of the time, when you worker/obs/scan the enemy base, you click on their buildings to see what they are making. When you see a protoss base and something warping, you obviously click on it to see if its a tech building or just a pylon for instance. Although there will be exceptions once in a blue moon, in most games of moderate length the "I don't click on enemy things" argument is completely absurd.
On April 21 2008 03:32 charcute wrote: i had a game where testie hacked so badly against tot xiaozi when being obsed by inconrol. It was clearly hacking cause the rep is saved in fpvod
It's too bad for LocalHost that he is the one player that can be proven 100% to have hacked. He showed them an FPVOD of a game where it's plainly clear he was clicking enemy units, than in the BWChart, those clicks don't show up. So it was on, but in off mode or lite mode; w/e it's called.
Therefore, due to simple rules: He had used a hack program in the last year, your banned. Deal with it.
On April 21 2008 03:43 SalvGG wrote: It's too bad for LocalHost that he is the one player that can be proven 100% to have hacked. He showed them an FPVOD of a game where it's plainly clear he was clicking enemy units, than in the BWChart, those clicks don't show up. So it was on, but in off mode or lite mode; w/e it's called.
Therefore, due to simple rules: He had used a hack program in the last year, your banned. Deal with it.
Hm, I suppose its possible that someone could use the hack program for training but turn it off when playing real games.
That would mean that he never actually hacked....but impossible to know for sure.
We actually found that rep too, and we just dismissed it as an anomaly, because it's literally the only one we've found of a top player with 0 actions. We checked basically all the other Strelok reps and he has a billion clicks.
Well, theoretically it could be done as it doesn't ruin rep synch, but the only reason for such an altering would be malicious intent. So it doesn't change anything, if you alter replays, you must have a reason for it, if you have a reason for it, goodbye.
On April 21 2008 04:04 BluzMan wrote: Well, theoretically it could be done as it doesn't ruin rep synch, but the only reason for such an altering would be malicious intent. So it doesn't change anything, if you alter replays, you must have a reason for it, if you have a reason for it, goodbye.
Isn't the point that that would make the new method obsolete?
On April 21 2008 04:04 BluzMan wrote: Well, theoretically it could be done as it doesn't ruin rep synch, but the only reason for such an altering would be malicious intent. So it doesn't change anything, if you alter replays, you must have a reason for it, if you have a reason for it, goodbye.
Isn't the point that that would make the new method obsolete?
this method is already obsolete for newer replays... And there is no way to edit old replay, cause they usually have more than one reliable source.
On April 21 2008 04:10 Cesar2000 wrote: Not when your opponent has a rep that tells a different story...
Ok since TT1 is denying it so strongly, i went and looked more closely at his reps from the reppack.
1) It is not true that ALL the games from WGT have no selects. There are at least 2 games: 18min vs Ptak and 14min vs ytong where aQua66 selects something.
2) ALL the WGT reps seem to have TT1's hotkey signature, this contradicts his story that a friend played on that account.
3) There are a few reps with no selects from TSL the longests ones being 11 minute games, #2077 and #2105.
From this, I would say there is a very minute possibility that in 2007, TT1 just wasnt a good player and rarely clicked on opponent units. In 2008, his game inproved and he started the clicking habit, however there are still a few short games that have no selects. This leaves only 1 really odd replay, which is his recent 40 min game vs moonek but if you watch that game he doesnt play like someone with map vision.
Does anyone have earlier 2006/2007 TT1 reps that show him consistently selecting enemy units? Or reps that were recorded before Oblivion's "hiding selects" was developed? This would be able to show that he was using a hack in WGT. Otherwise, he could simply have been a bad player.
i dont even play bw anymore but i suppose ill respond on this.
you say "either i hack, or i dont click otherr units as much as good players" i dont see how this concludes any sort of proof i hack. I don't hack, i never have hacked, ive made the mistake of letting people smurf for me and had multiple accounts, but thats the most ive ever done in terms of abuse of this game. Many people have had it out for me since i started getting atleast decent at this game, mostly because of american arrogance and thinking they can be the only good players in america, namely media. But even so, what kind of moron would post numerous rep packs and replays if he hacked, thats like the dumbest thing ive ever heard of. I play 90% of my games on ICCUP and i was training for wcg, there is no reason to hack that would only ruin my chances. I think this new method is all based on interpretation, and out of everyoen on there, only mine seems like its "chances are he hacks". Whether you believe me or not i dont really care, i recently quit bw, to take care of school and personal life. So if i'm falsely remembered as a hacker, oh well.
TT1 admitted to hacking in the WGT pack after hotkey signature confirmed that it was him. He said this to me on MSN, and also said I could post that he said this.
He also still maintains he didn't hack in the 5 recent reps, believe him if you want.
On April 21 2008 04:22 bRokeN wrote: i dont even play bw anymore but i suppose ill respond on this.
you say "either i hack, or i dont click otherr units as much as good players" i dont see how this concludes any sort of proof i hack. I don't hack, i never have hacked, ive made the mistake of letting people smurf for me and had multiple accounts, but thats the most ive ever done in terms of abuse of this game. Many people have had it out for me since i started getting atleast decent at this game, mostly because of american arrogance and thinking they can be the only good players in america, namely media. But even so, what kind of moron would post numerous rep packs and replays if he hacked, thats like the dumbest thing ive ever heard of. I play 90% of my games on ICCUP and i was training for wcg, there is no reason to hack that would only ruin my chances. I think this new method is all based on interpretation, and out of everyoen on there, only mine seems like its "chances are he hacks". Whether you believe me or not i dont really care, i recently quit bw, to take care of school and personal life. So if i'm falsely remembered as a hacker, oh well.
On April 21 2008 04:22 bRokeN wrote: i dont even play bw anymore but i suppose ill respond on this.
you say "either i hack, or i dont click otherr units as much as good players" i dont see how this concludes any sort of proof i hack. I don't hack, i never have hacked, ive made the mistake of letting people smurf for me and had multiple accounts, but thats the most ive ever done in terms of abuse of this game. Many people have had it out for me since i started getting atleast decent at this game, mostly because of american arrogance and thinking they can be the only good players in america, namely media. But even so, what kind of moron would post numerous rep packs and replays if he hacked, thats like the dumbest thing ive ever heard of. I play 90% of my games on ICCUP and i was training for wcg, there is no reason to hack that would only ruin my chances. I think this new method is all based on interpretation, and out of everyoen on there, only mine seems like its "chances are he hacks". Whether you believe me or not i dont really care, i recently quit bw, to take care of school and personal life. So if i'm falsely remembered as a hacker, oh well.
For fame / regognize / wanting to be 1 of the cool guys here who deliveres reppacks etc etc etc
Also I remember @wgt Cheat forums(months ago, u were #1 there then) some Danish kid made topic about u(sMi.Spades), he had feeling u hacked. Posted some weird stuff about u, u posted also in that topic, etc etc. I am 100% sure u hacked.
Too bad I dont find that topic anymore, I would definetly bumb that topic and give high 5 for the dude.
Spades recently quit? LOL all hackers say that when they come out of the closet. Now I see how he could be A before AH was implemented and how he won against a lot of good players. I even won against him in the TSL event a few days ago and man... He was stuck at C+.
FU Spades. I really hope you leave BW for good like you say you will.
And Executor. I hope he is fucking gone for good. The guy has been caught hacking so many times and the whole community knew he were still hacking. Just quit Starcraft you failure .
Want to know more about BW-Space since he is from the swedish community. Where did that accusation come from and has someone tried gathering evidence? I don't know much about him but I find it - in agreement with merz - very unlikely to believe that he'd hack.
On April 21 2008 01:46 {88}iNcontroL wrote: HAHAH tt1 LOL
Headlines!
Former Hacker is anomally in current scandal
TT1 has been a victim of circumstance! He is realeasing replays like mad to try and reveal that he is being targeted by an elaborate scheme aimed at character assassinating one of the communities brightest stars! "If I hacked why would I release 1k replays," stated TT1. Evidence mounts that he is actually a giant douche who thinks somehow that hacking only some of the time is ok and fine and that the sheer weight of his legit games will somehow sweep the hacked ones under the carpet. More on faggots later.
ROFLMAO HAHAHAHH! Love it...as far as TT1 goes, yo nigga..no one cares to hear your logic simply becasue it is not logic if it is used in explanation for hacking...there is no logical reason to hack. I mean serioulsy...is it fun to hack? I am confused. If i bought a game that was fun and i paid money for it, i wouldn't use some hack to beat it in an hour..becasue then its no longer fun, so I would think it would be about the same for starcraft...was it fun?..more so, was it worth it?
Scum of the earth...busted...go crawl back into dark dark hole asaply.
On April 21 2008 04:45 Shauni wrote: Spades recently quit? LOL all hackers say that when they come out of the closet. Now I see how he could be A before AH was implemented and how he won against a lot of good players. I even won against him in the TSL event a few days ago and man... He was stuck at C+.
FU Spades. I really hope you leave BW for good like you say you will.
And Executor. I hope he is fucking gone for good. The guy has been caught hacking so many times and the whole community knew he were still hacking. Just quit Starcraft you failure .
Want to know more about BW-Space since he is from the swedish community. Where did that accusation come from and has someone tried gathering evidence? I don't know much about him but I find it - in agreement with merz - very unlikely to believe that he'd hack.
i had already quit playing seriously and was fucking around with random. your an idiot
On April 21 2008 04:45 Shauni wrote: Spades recently quit? LOL all hackers say that when they come out of the closet. Now I see how he could be A before AH was implemented and how he won against a lot of good players. I even won against him in the TSL event a few days ago and man... He was stuck at C+.
FU Spades. I really hope you leave BW for good like you say you will.
And Executor. I hope he is fucking gone for good. The guy has been caught hacking so many times and the whole community knew he were still hacking. Just quit Starcraft you failure .
Want to know more about BW-Space since he is from the swedish community. Where did that accusation come from and has someone tried gathering evidence? I don't know much about him but I find it - in agreement with merz - very unlikely to believe that he'd hack.
i had already quit playing seriously and was fucking around with random. your an idiot
all replays are from wgt clan league from diferent divisions not really famous players like those on first page but...
gH-Ferdin 8 replays (1 hack rep + 1 wrong rep + 6 reps without single click) Keeper-Tigrou 7 replays (1 hack rep + 6 reps without single click) Keeper-JoeKim 9 replays (1 hack rep + 3 wrong reps + 5 reps without single click) Keeper-Gooner 3 replays (1 hack rep + 2 reps without single click) Keeper-Junkie 3 replays (1 hack rep + 2 reps without single click) Keeper-Power no hacking reps but 2 reps without clicks and member of nice "mannered" clan :D
I know that 1 replay doesnt prove anything but more reps without any clicks and putting wrong reps in wgt page is suspicious to for me. If anyone of people here played game against those guys check those replays and feel free to post them here for more proof.
On April 21 2008 05:00 GongKyuckTerran wrote: all replays are from wgt clan league from diferent divisions not really famous players like those on first page but...
gH-Ferdin 8 replays (1 hack rep + 1 wrong rep + 6 reps without single click) Keeper-Tigrou 7 replays (1 hack rep + 6 reps without single click) Keeper-JoeKim 9 replays (1 hack rep + 3 wrong reps + 5 reps without single click) Keeper-Gooner 3 replays (1 hack rep + 2 reps without single click) Keeper-Junkie 3 replays (1 hack rep + 2 reps without single click) Keeper-Power no hacking reps but 2 reps without clicks and member of nice "mannered" clan :D
I know that 1 replay doesnt prove anything but more reps without any clicks and putting wrong reps in wgt page is suspicious to for me. If anyone of people here played game against those guys check those replays and feel free to post them here for more proof.
It'd be nice to have a constant update on opening post just listing the stream of people who are caught. Whats the best advisable way to report someone. I just played gH-Ferdin and as GongKyuckTerran posted above he had no suspicious "clicks" at all. It seems most of the games of his are short but it's over a span of 8 games.
For you guys worried about the next hack removing the thing that we can detect to prove hack, a friend of mine is working on ums triggers for obs maps which can detect 100% of the time if they're hacking or not. I won't say more now about it, but he says he's pretty close to getting it done. It's similar to the brisa) python antihack obs thing, except you can't get around it.
On April 21 2008 06:19 charcute wrote: well watch the rep with Bwl then insult me after
what? i just told you it doesnt show what the person's screen is looking at. it centers where you right-click.
so testie was right clicking in fog (no units from testie move) and follow what xiaozi is doing, especially when xiaozi is comming to drop, come on watch it for real
I love how after a new detection method is discovered, although it'll be obsolete in no time as hackers are pretty good at programing solutions to the detection method, they can't anticipate everything. Then, a genius like Flag comes along and discovers a detection method, triggering a witch-hunt that uncovers thousands of hackers. As soon as that method is made public, the whole cycle repeats.
Hackers, read this: You'll be safe for a number of years, but as soon as a new detection method is released, you're going to be caught and humiliated. So don't do it.
when you load the rep, its going to be in fpview. The command are /fpplay on or off /fpemul 0 or 1 /fpnext to switch player
don't forget to put off all vision but testie and you'll see testie looking at xiaozi base in fog
If i remember well, that system didn't work perfectly in some circumstances and tend to show things that didn't happen, i don't remember if it was a problem with old version of the game or what but i think it wasn't possible to use it as a 100% proof.
Probably if you use a clean rep you would see this kind of occurencies in any case ... not sure though
That testie rep actually seems to show some of incontrols actions as if they belonged to testie and xiaozi too. So I think testie is clean. Someone knowing more about that program might settle this properly.
On April 21 2008 05:23 GongKyuckTerran wrote: who care if they suck of not,if you beat them or not this thread is about hackers not celebrities...
No, this thread is about hackers who actually have enough skill at the game to get far in the tourneys. They are the ones who compromise competetive SC, and TL is announcing that they have done specific... work to make the appropriate accusations. But in no way is this thread a place to report random pubs who hack, there are thousands of them. People who, I, Bluzman, not just am able to win against, but totally outclass, are really (really!) not able to compromise anything. They should be reported to the appropriate ladder admin in a standard hack accusation procedure. This thread serves a purpose other than reveal thousands of those little hacking kids, TL.net doesn't even have the ability to actually punish anyone.
On April 21 2008 06:19 Xeris wrote: JoeKim from USA B = hacker T_T
Sad but not surprising. I played him and I thought he was VERY mediocre (at best), and yet I see him get A later in the season, when other GOOD foreigners are struggling for A.
Can you imagine thinking you're the absolute shit at this game, having your e-penis inflated by the "respect" you get the from community, but knowing deep down that you do indeed hack and still get beat by legitimate players from time to time? That would eat a normal person up inside.
On April 21 2008 06:51 jtan wrote: That testie rep actually seems to show some of incontrols actions as if they belonged to testie and xiaozi too. So I think testie is clean. Someone knowing more about that program might settle this properly.
ya jtan, i didnt watch xiaozi and its just like testie, I think that i was wrong and testie is clean. So i'm sorry for being flase in the witch hunt and also, I'm stupid
On April 21 2008 07:07 charcute wrote: i find funny that executor and killah were hacking and lost everything in 2v2 on wgt cw
Nope, They won lot of games, all the games have been reserved now. Me and my friend(who I watch lot of 2v2 wgtcl reps with) have been sure that they both(or 1 of them hacks) for quite some time now, their timing / builds(always perfect counters, never been suprised with pants down, etc etc) have been so ridiculously good. They also been winning shitloads of 2v2 and exe also 1v1 in past seasons, making LrM win WGTCL few times.
These 5 sites just took all those motherfuckers, strapped them in a chair, put out an array of torture tools, looked at you, and said, "Seems I'll be taking my lunch break right about now."
I knew some of them hacked vs me, but I thought it was luck. Finally...
interesting comments..lots of trash. unless some other people here who are making themselves wet when reading something like "hacker caught", it seems to me this "method" of finding hackers is a bit wierd, not to say a bit random..looking at some replays, using the very same method makes me wonder why some people here are soo exicted when other hackers are caught, beeing themselves cheaters. i will not name anyone beeing unsure if this method is worth anything. but in the end this wicked new "method" will catch them all i am sure... ps: GIVE US ASCENSION FINALS FFS!
A dirty ugly bird from A FU****** ***** ** ******* * ****** * site announced that the problem with the detection of his beloved little tool will soon be fixed with the new version TTT
On April 21 2008 07:36 HanN00b wrote: A dirty ugly bird from A FU****** ***** ** ******* * ****** * site announced that the problem with the detection of his beloved little tool will soon be fixed with the new version TTT
even if he manages to bypass this detection, this exposé has already done its job. i dont think in the ten year of Starcraft that so many known players have been discovered hacking. AND theres more to come, since there is so much data from the last few years to work with. a new version of the hack might work for a while, but those who use it will be found eventually. this operation has already shown that these hackers are not as invincible as they once thought.
yeah, i read on the site that they said we are going to be disappointed that they're fixing it, but it's not like we'd be able to catch anyone with this method in the future anyway, since everyone knows about it. we already knew there'd be an updated version of oblivion, no big deal. just don't use the proof for replays dated after today.
Wow this is amazing.. in a bad way.. my jaw dropped when i read about these so called "famous" players. I'm new to the SC-scene but i had no idea so many well known players cheated.
Does anyone know when the maphacks were updated to not record clicks on opponents' units? I was curious and since I still had all those old replays of MIStrZZZ "definitely hacking," I checked them out in BWChart. Result? Clicks in every single one of them.
i'm surprised nobody mentioned the LRM)Executor / LRM)Killa vs. xLo.Tronic / xLo.Ryko game, where 75% of the players were hacking and nobody had suspicious clicks but Ryko, that replay was lol
[08:19] Merz: how do they solve that [08:19] Merz: "uh since you had 2 hackers and excello 1" [08:19] Merz: "we're ruling it in favour of excello" [08:20] Hot_Bid: loll
On April 21 2008 08:28 Hot_Bid wrote: i'm surprised nobody mentioned the LRM)Executor / LRM)Killa vs. xLo.Tronic / xLo.Ryko game, where 75% of the players were hacking and nobody had suspicious clicks but Ryko, that replay was lol
[08:19] Merz: how do they solve that [08:19] Merz: "uh since you had 2 hackers and excello 1" [08:19] Merz: "we're ruling it in favour of excello" [08:20] Hot_Bid: loll
Both of the players hacking reminds me of a 2on2 team we played a few years back in bwcl seggsyprobe)G( and chrisred)G(. They didn't master the hack as well as executor/killa or tronic and so it came that one of them scoutet his ally and they somehow forgot to scout us :D
On April 21 2008 07:28 JoMal wrote: Too bad for TT1 =[ I guess he needs to win WCG Canada to clear his name now =]
To clear his name how? If he is good at SC:BW, then the tarnish on his reputation for being a cheater is cleared? The two things have nothing to do with each other. It's a sad thing that he's even eligible to compete in WCG.
On April 20 2008 23:20 Luhh wrote: Why don't you use a screenshot client that takes screenshots every now and then and uploads them to a server? A solution used successfully at r60 funleague (swedish CS 1.6 sommunity).
Of course it requires a player logged in to a server that it can upload to, but if you hardly notice any HD-lag/upload lag when playing an FPS, I doubt this will give any problems with BW (who also has lower screen resolution resulting in even smaller picture sizes.
55,000 games played in the tsl... say 10 pics a game... half a million pictures to look at.
/ends life
I think he has a point actually. Nobody has to look at all the screenshots to check them exhaustively. The simple fact they are available should be deterrent enough. For even higher success, here's an idea : give everyone access to see the screenshots. This effectively makes it a distributed hackers finding system, and no single person has to check a ton of replays, many people will be checking a few of them. If someone is suspicious he can always go check his opponent's screenshots after the game and report them if there is foul play. Admins can check them after a complaint. It's simple yet beautiful. Until the day someone is dedicated enough to hack the screenshotting client, but I'm not sure any of the usual programmers would care enough to write a hack that defeats it, since they have no real incentive to do it.
On April 21 2008 00:50 ret wrote: Succes-story hackers like Testie or to a lesser extend trek is what makes these people think they can hack and still be respected, but fuck that, hackers should not get 2nd chances.
Any long enough maphack related thread will always testie and/or trek mentionned.
What if they were to just link the screen shots to the game info on a players games page, that way if theres any suspicians just go to the screenshots, and you don't need to go trhough every single picutre, just where you suspect it.
I have a hard time dealing with the fact that no one will ever consider it important when me or someone I know wins a SC tournament.
Add that to the fact that even if I won, even I could not consider it important because I was hacking...that would be like....wft should I kill myself...
I believe that, at a certain age, a known good player who is caught hacking at a major tournament should be consider to be a psychopat to some extent. I mean, not like a crazy man killing people, but a deranged person of some kind with vicious behaviour. I call that a psychopat.
Perhaps the only thing more pitiful than all these people hacking is the way they try to cover it up with more crap. Take that localhost guy: he gets found clearly hacking in many games, and his excuse is "I'm not a hacker guys, we just use a maphack in our practice games to improve timing." Or excello.tronic claiming that he simply never clicks units and that the proof is "mathematically flawed." How the hell could you play a competitive game of starcraft without clicking on an enemy unit at least once? There are SO many situations where you would need to do it, even in the first 5 minutes of a game.
Oh, and shame on the guy who directly accused testie of maphacking using the piss poor "evidence" of bwlauncher's fpview mode.
On April 21 2008 03:00 Hot_Bid wrote: DNA]LunacticX[ i don't care abou blizzard...on competitive level it has to be safe.
This guy needs to be slapped in the face with a brick, that comment makes my blood boil.
On April 21 2008 03:00 FREAKY SITE: Quote: Originally Posted by DNA]LunacticX[ View Post hey, oblivion is detectable again. they found a method to catch hackers. fix it please. see here ***Hackers Caught !!(/quote) Originally Posted by Zynastor (Creator of Oblivion) interesting, but i guess they will be disappointed with v3.0.7 when that method will no longer work.
This Zynastor guy needs to be slapped in the face with a brick, his comment makes my blood boil.
On April 21 2008 08:57 city42 wrote: O tempora! O mores!
Perhaps the only thing more pitiful than all these people hacking is the way they try to cover it up with more crap. Take that localhost guy: he gets found clearly hacking in many games, and his excuse is "I'm not a hacker guys, we just use a maphack in our practice games to improve timing." Or excello.tronic claiming that he simply never clicks units and that the proof is "mathematically flawed." How the hell could you play a competitive game of starcraft without clicking on an enemy unit at least once? There are SO many situations where you would need to do it, even in the first 5 minutes of a game.
The excuses of hackers have always been the most funny part about catching them
"I only hacked in this replay of a public game where I was fooling around" "I hacked because I knew my opponent was hacking" "I hacked to practice timing" "My brother must have installed the hack"
etc, there are so many more, I don't even remember half of them, one is more ludicrous than the other
Sporting events only seem legitimate when cheating is kept to an absolute minimum. I think all the hard work put in to catch cheaters really increases the integrity of the events and deters players from picking up cheating or to continue cheating in the future.
I mean shit! I was gone all day come back and see a 17 page thread on hackers caught I mean dammmmmmmn, there were some surprising names in that list but in my opinion thats a very intelligent way of catching people
On April 21 2008 10:00 IntoTheWow wrote: "a friend was using my account" / "it was a shared account"
"i got frustrated by all the hackers so i installed hack to make things fair" <- my favorite "this is the only time i ever hacked i only wanted to try it but i was so disgusted that i uninstalled it right after"
looks like i was right to kick sensai out of my clan those years ago. come join us on teamaus sensai and brag about all the people you beat and the ranks you achieve on ladders now
On April 21 2008 06:51 jtan wrote: That testie rep actually seems to show some of incontrols actions as if they belonged to testie and xiaozi too. So I think testie is clean. Someone knowing more about that program might settle this properly.
ya jtan, i didnt watch xiaozi and its just like testie, I think that i was wrong and testie is clean. So i'm sorry for being flase in the witch hunt and also, I'm stupid
you really need to watch the way you word things next time then, especially if youre not exactly sure how the program works. dont just come and throw 100% hack accusations at people.
On April 20 2008 22:30 iG.ClouD wrote: Burn in hell idiots you are the worst scum ever. TT1 I don't wanna have anything to do with you anymore go die a painful death. Executor + Push you fuckers dared to insult me when I told everyone you were maphacking YOU ARE FUCKING TRASH. God bless oblivion, best antihack ever.
Watch the quarter-final MOTC between Localhost and Strelok. Localhost played wayyyyy too perfect. He builds perfect counters to everything then "accidently" finding expos with his shuttle by going the longest route possible. LOL. 2nd game, Localhost finds Strelok on 1st scout then he doesn't scout Strelok's proxy build yet, but goes 2 gates right away. I feel sorry for Strelok since maphack cost him a potential $300. All that work just to get to the quarter-finals.
On April 21 2008 10:15 Vi)Chris wrote: Sporting events only seem legitimate when cheating is kept to an absolute minimum. I think all the hard work put in to catch cheaters really increases the integrity of the events and deters players from picking up cheating or to continue cheating in the future.
Yeah! In NBA, Sacramento Kings lost to Los Angelos Lakers in the Western Conference finals where they were the favorite to win it all. It wasn't until recently it was discovered that a LA(?) ref was taking bribes from the mafia. I remember the game was so blatantly paid off, yet players aren't able to talk about it. Commentators mentioned that the referee calling was one-sided yet they can't say more or else I'm sure it would ruin the image of the NBA.
On April 21 2008 03:31 IzzyCraft wrote: lol this just made me realise how little i click on enemy shit As zerg i dont really click on enemy shit too much apparently unless im useing scourges my p and t has clicks not alot either >-<
Yeah same for me. ZvT I can't think of a single enemy unit/building that I select at any point in the game, except for rare circumstances. ZvZ I'll select their pool or spire sometimes, but not all the time. ZvP, if I have time, I'll see how far their cyber core is, or check if they build a stargate or a citadel or more gateways.
On April 21 2008 03:31 IzzyCraft wrote: lol this just made me realise how little i click on enemy shit As zerg i dont really click on enemy shit too much apparently unless im useing scourges my p and t has clicks not alot either >-<
Yeah same for me. ZvT I can't think of a single enemy unit/building that I select at any point in the game, except for rare circumstances. ZvZ I'll select their pool or spire sometimes, but not all the time. ZvP, if I have time, I'll see how far their cyber core is, or check if they build a stargate or a citadel or more gateways.
You don't check if rines have +1? I usually do even though that's exactly when I see them rushing me.
Good work flag/TL. Tons of replays out there so the evidence is ripe for the picking.
On April 21 2008 03:31 IzzyCraft wrote: lol this just made me realise how little i click on enemy shit As zerg i dont really click on enemy shit too much apparently unless im useing scourges my p and t has clicks not alot either >-<
Yeah same for me. ZvT I can't think of a single enemy unit/building that I select at any point in the game, except for rare circumstances. ZvZ I'll select their pool or spire sometimes, but not all the time. ZvP, if I have time, I'll see how far their cyber core is, or check if they build a stargate or a citadel or more gateways.
People that is not used to click on enemy units or building (except i think for very rare occasion) with more than 100 APM only prove to have hacked in the past (that's why they lost the habit of clicking around randomly).
I don't think i am different from many other players, i am a 130 APM players and my games are full of suspicious actions from the start to the end, and that it's how it should be if u've never hacked in your life.
I noticed that many reps show a couple of suspicious clicks (by my opponent) in the first 2-3 mins of games and then they stay like 20 mins without a single suspicious action. Isn't this strange? isn't this a sign that MH is turned on at a certain point? I ask who know how the hack works if this is possible.
I mean i have like 20-30 actions on opponents buildings and units along every game and i don't think i am a clicks maniac ... how the hell can they play 20 mins without a suspicious action?
On April 21 2008 03:31 IzzyCraft wrote: lol this just made me realise how little i click on enemy shit As zerg i dont really click on enemy shit too much apparently unless im useing scourges my p and t has clicks not alot either >-<
Yeah same for me. ZvT I can't think of a single enemy unit/building that I select at any point in the game, except for rare circumstances. ZvZ I'll select their pool or spire sometimes, but not all the time. ZvP, if I have time, I'll see how far their cyber core is, or check if they build a stargate or a citadel or more gateways.
On the contrary, I always check upgrades and Barracks construction process. In ZvP, it's likewise with upgrades, and also to check what that anonymous warp thing is building. ZvZ, pool timing.
If you don't want to be called a hacker for not clicking on enemy shit, just click their scout probe/scv/drone/overlord as soon as it enters your base. Insta-hackfree.
Wow, I just spent the last half an hour reading every post in this thread, and loving every second of it. Bravo to Flag, Hot_Bid, the duo of Romad/Midian, and everyone else helping to expose these losers and put integrity above everything else. Thank you.
On April 21 2008 12:24 EvilTeletubby wrote: Wow, I just spent the last half an hour reading every post in this thread, and loving every second of it. Bravo to Flag, Hot_Bid, the duo of Romad/Midian, and everyone else helping to expose these losers and put integrity above everything else. Thank you.
On April 21 2008 03:31 IzzyCraft wrote: lol this just made me realise how little i click on enemy shit As zerg i dont really click on enemy shit too much apparently unless im useing scourges my p and t has clicks not alot either >-<
Yeah same for me. ZvT I can't think of a single enemy unit/building that I select at any point in the game, except for rare circumstances. ZvZ I'll select their pool or spire sometimes, but not all the time. ZvP, if I have time, I'll see how far their cyber core is, or check if they build a stargate or a citadel or more gateways.
You don't check if rines have +1? I usually do even though that's exactly when I see them rushing me.
Good work flag/TL. Tons of replays out there so the evidence is ripe for the picking.
What difference does it make? ZvT, every Terran gets infantry ups. If rines die from 2 lurker spines, they got +1atk, if it takes 3 or 2 + a ling hit, they got +1armor. Of course, I'm not some Starcraft guru or anything. At my current skill level, I've got better things to do than find out if they're owning me with +1 attack or if they're owning me with +1 armor.
Similar with ZvP, it makes sense that a popular select of opponent's unit/building would be to check if/when his zeals get +1. I pretty much just assume that when he moves out with speedzeals, he's got +1, or it's very near to completion.
Assumptions like that are going to end up getting you accused of hacking, bro :p I don't think anyone 1a2a3a4a5a's their lurkerling into the enemy and stops to count how many spines it takes to kill them, clicking seems so much more practical :p
I have a question for MH expert, what happen if u turn of/on mh or just shut the program down and then re-open, what happen to the .rep in this case? Does the rep record the clicks only when the hack is on or what?
On April 21 2008 12:46 IH4t3z3rg wrote: I have a question for MH expert, what happen if u turn of/on mh or just shut the program down and then re-open, what happen to the .rep in this case? Does the rep record the clicks only when the hack is on or what?
That would be a good thing to test out. Maybe an admin-created game to test out a bunch of variations and see what happens if they don't know for sure already :-x
Just watched the semi-final of the recent MOTC between Mondragon vs Localhost. Again, blatant hacking. The timing on everything is way too perfect. Localhost defended Mondragon flank at bridge just EXACTLY as Mondragon began to attack/defend. Or notice how he BARELY makes enough canon at main when Mondragon does lurker. Most protoss would have been dead if Zerg went Mutalisk.
If the skill difference wasn't so huge between these 2 players, Mondragon would had lost $300.
On April 21 2008 08:28 Hot_Bid wrote: i'm surprised nobody mentioned the LRM)Executor / LRM)Killa vs. xLo.Tronic / xLo.Ryko game, where 75% of the players were hacking and nobody had suspicious clicks but Ryko, that replay was lol
[08:19] Merz: how do they solve that [08:19] Merz: "uh since you had 2 hackers and excello 1" [08:19] Merz: "we're ruling it in favour of excello" [08:20] Hot_Bid: loll
Just to answer it, the match was closed 3-1 with the 2v2 0-0 and discarded.
On April 21 2008 11:06 [X]Ken_D wrote: Watch the quarter-final MOTC between Localhost and Strelok. Localhost played wayyyyy too perfect. He builds perfect counters to everything then "accidently" finding expos with his shuttle by going the longest route possible. LOL. 2nd game, Localhost finds Strelok on 1st scout then he doesn't scout Strelok's proxy build yet, but goes 2 gates right away. I feel sorry for Strelok since maphack cost him a potential $300. All that work just to get to the quarter-finals.
also cheated Strelok out of a potential spot in ascension finals..
East guy. Not known at all but its good for people to know he hacks. Although we all know he's going to make a new name and cheat his way into a new clan.
Someone who accused me of hacking for being prepared for a lurker drop at close positions, despite his den start with no spire. There is a reason he hacks and that you do not know of him...
On April 21 2008 11:06 [X]Ken_D wrote: Watch the quarter-final MOTC between Localhost and Strelok. Localhost played wayyyyy too perfect. He builds perfect counters to everything then "accidently" finding expos with his shuttle by going the longest route possible. LOL. 2nd game, Localhost finds Strelok on 1st scout then he doesn't scout Strelok's proxy build yet, but goes 2 gates right away. I feel sorry for Strelok since maphack cost him a potential $300. All that work just to get to the quarter-finals.
also cheated Strelok out of a potential spot in ascension finals..
It's sad yet true when I people say, "you need maphack just compete (against hackers)."
Damn i wish i could write a hack and make it popular, then at some point i'd add some detection system and expose these filthy fuckers once and for all...
So, I just played a game on bnet today, and I specifically clicked on my opponent's cc (even though I had nothing to gain from it, what else is he gonna build at his expo minerals) and that click didn't show up in BWChart. WTF?
On April 21 2008 17:13 Dromar wrote: So, I just played a game on bnet today, and I specifically clicked on my opponent's cc (even though I had nothing to gain from it, what else is he gonna build at his expo minerals) and that click didn't show up in BWChart. WTF?
Hacker! Ban plz. Honestly tho, I'm sure TL staff has extensively tested this method, why do you care so much for disproving hackers?
So, I just played a game on bnet today, and I specifically clicked on my opponent's cc (even though I had nothing to gain from it, what else is he gonna build at his expo minerals) and that click didn't show up in BWChart. WTF?
Make sure you changed to settings so that it shows enemy units selected after 2 minutes.
i checked a lot of my replays, and i basically have a fuckton of clicks on enemy stuff even in short games. and so do my opponents. practically _everyone_ does the following: select spawning pool when scouting Z (everyone of last 50 opponents when i was Z selected my pool!!!) select 2nd gateway/cycore when scouting P early select citadel/stargate when scouting P with fast tech/later select scouting probe when being scouted by P to check shields/HP select marine/tank/gol to check ups when OL sees terran pushing out select morphing colonies when scouting Z defenses (scan etc)
and neither me nor my opponents are good. So imho this method is really good. You just have to select stuff out of necessity. Period. No point arguing.
On April 21 2008 08:57 city42 wrote: O tempora! O mores!
Perhaps the only thing more pitiful than all these people hacking is the way they try to cover it up with more crap. Take that localhost guy: he gets found clearly hacking in many games, and his excuse is "I'm not a hacker guys, we just use a maphack in our practice games to improve timing." Or excello.tronic claiming that he simply never clicks units and that the proof is "mathematically flawed." How the hell could you play a competitive game of starcraft without clicking on an enemy unit at least once? There are SO many situations where you would need to do it, even in the first 5 minutes of a game.
The excuses of hackers have always been the most funny part about catching them
"I only hacked in this replay of a public game where I was fooling around" "I hacked because I knew my opponent was hacking" "I hacked to practice timing" "My brother must have installed the hack"
etc, there are so many more, I don't even remember half of them, one is more ludicrous than the other
I do believe about the 3rd part though... Otherwise how would testie be so good ? :p I've already said in the past that map hack does help about timing, but it's better not to use in official tournament obviously. And no you shouldn't tell to your ennemy you're hacking because otherwise he'd play the most conservatives builds so it wouldn't work. The best way would to map hack to an ennemy who play with a build that's used very often in ladder / tournament in order to get timing senses. Again i recall it's bad to use it in official games. You should use only for practice time nothing more. I'm feeling bad about kassios though because i used to play against him, while i know he was cheating it was only training games. I'd not have thought he'd use his hacks in iccup though... :[ That being said i hope i've suspicious clicks or whatever because there's no hack on my laptop (99% of games playing on my laptop afaik, just tested to see if the antihack could work against a map hack that i used with an other computer. Did work so i've never used any hack with the other comp but it still has the hacks on the hard drive so i don't know if there's no clicks or not because of the modified starcraft files (i must have played like 10 games or so with the other computer))
Some comments I found funny in "Spades Rep Pack" Topic.
"+ Your timing is great. You know very well the optimum times to push out against toss after they react to your FE."
"- Your academy work is pretty poor. In most of the games, you rarely use your scan. Your comstats are at 200 constantly, and you only check expos sporadically. This is the biggest hole in your game that I saw. Of course, you win in all your reps, so it doesn't seem to hurt you, but I assume in some other games it has."
"My TvP style is based on my timing pushes"
"But thanks for the criticisms, i have a paranoia tvp of not having scan energy for dts/arbs. So i try to scan as little as possible, but i have to get around that and start using them more frequently." LOL...
" NerO United States. February 06 2008 14:14. Posts 1644 PM Profile Quote he only has good timing cus he hacks all florida players hack. 2004 vote hack 2000 vote hack" Good call, sir !
"wow some nice TvP's i've only watched the first 3 reps, vs mgz)li, and i'm pretty amazed the gosu timings and game sense. its like whenever i go 3 facs with late ebay, i always get owned. Maybe thast why i'm noob..."
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
On April 21 2008 18:50 disMami wrote: i wonder how good this was tested.
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Read before post !
WGTour admins are checking all the WGT CL replays in search for potential map hackers. 3 have been caught so far, a couple more are suspected of hacking, too.
On April 21 2008 08:28 Hot_Bid wrote: i'm surprised nobody mentioned the LRM)Executor / LRM)Killa vs. xLo.Tronic / xLo.Ryko game, where 75% of the players were hacking and nobody had suspicious clicks but Ryko, that replay was lol
[08:19] Merz: how do they solve that [08:19] Merz: "uh since you had 2 hackers and excello 1" [08:19] Merz: "we're ruling it in favour of excello" [08:20] Hot_Bid: loll
On April 21 2008 19:50 likeaboss wrote: Hack fix alreadyu? Man....... if some idiots hacked pgt, why doesnt someone with some fucking morals hack their site........................
In time ppl will find to catch them again . This is how it always goes, hackers 1 step ahead and in time they will be cauth..
On April 21 2008 19:50 likeaboss wrote: Hack fix alreadyu? Man....... if some idiots hacked pgt, why doesnt someone with some fucking morals hack their site........................
well it seems like now that sc skills are worth money someone should pay people to develop antihacks.
I vote that a portion of the tsl winnings goes to flag.
also if i was planning on playing in a serious tournament and hacking at the same time, I would probably do my own private party hack instead of a third-party mass-downloaded hack. those hacks, IMHO would be much harder to guard against. and now given that tournaments are worth serious cash (assuming tsl is recurring) then it shouldn't be that hard to find some cs majors and offer them cash to develop your own private hacks.
On April 21 2008 18:50 disMami wrote: i wonder how good this was tested.
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Read before post !
you tell me to read before i post? DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE?
YOU DUMB FUCK DONT GET IT AT ALL!
i read really good how to do it. but you obviously are too stupid to get what im questioning in my post!
i made 3 games so far and all of them are less than 1 min, coz i played vs myself with multi bw on a local PvPGN network: 1 without maphack and clicks on enemy buildings, when i had vision of them 1 with maphack #1 and clicks through the fog of war (aka hack clicks) 1 with maphack #2 and clicks through the fog of war and with vision on
result: 1. 0 suspicious 2. 0 suspisious 3. 0 suspisious (but no select actions got saved in the rep, aka safe click maphack)
i know i used a hack to make some of those click, which would be impossible to make without a map hack, BUT BWCHART DIDNT DETECT THOSE, EVENTHOUGH THEY WERE IN THE REPLAY! got it now dumbass?
i also checked another replay which is 100% hack coz of 5 frames gather actions, and there were suspüicious actions, aka no hack used according to this method.
Its good that we can catch hackers. But dont make HASTY DECISIONS
For example: BW-Space is on the hackers list.
Yet there is only 1 replay of him with no clicks. This was not evidence enough according to this method. I feel that most people are abit too eager to catch the hackers and if they find someone calling someone a hacker and posting 1 rep at some sight they post it at their own site aswell. If BW-Space is really a hacker, then so be it. But atleast wait for some more replays, OR post the replays for us to download.
I know many real hackers will be caught, but there might be some exceptions if the replaycount is too low.
On April 21 2008 18:50 disMami wrote: i wonder how good this was tested.
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Read before post !
you tell me to read before i post? DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE?
YOU DUMB FUCK DONT GET IT AT ALL!
i read really good how to do it. but you obviously are too stupid to get what im questioning in my post!
i made 3 games so far and all of them are less than 1 min, coz i played vs myself with multi bw on a local PvPGN network: 1 without maphack and clicks on enemy buildings, when i had vision of them 1 with maphack #1 and clicks through the fog of war (aka hack clicks) 1 with maphack #2 and clicks through the fog of war and with vision on
result: 1. 0 suspicious 2. 0 suspisious 3. 0 suspisious (but no select actions got saved in the rep, aka safe click maphack)
i know i used a hack to make some of those click, which would be impossible to make without a map hack, BUT BWCHART DIDNT DETECT THOSE, EVENTHOUGH THEY WERE IN THE REPLAY! got it now dumbass?
i also checked another replay which is 100% hack coz of 5 frames gather actions, and there were suspüicious actions, aka no hack used according to this method.
the selects will not be marked suspicious when u play against computers. run your tests with a real player.
On April 21 2008 18:50 disMami wrote: i wonder how good this was tested.
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Read before post !
you tell me to read before i post? DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE?
YOU DUMB FUCK DONT GET IT AT ALL!
i read really good how to do it. but you obviously are too stupid to get what im questioning in my post!
i made 3 games so far and all of them are less than 1 min, coz i played vs myself with multi bw on a local PvPGN network: 1 without maphack and clicks on enemy buildings, when i had vision of them 1 with maphack #1 and clicks through the fog of war (aka hack clicks) 1 with maphack #2 and clicks through the fog of war and with vision on
result: 1. 0 suspicious 2. 0 suspisious 3. 0 suspisious (but no select actions got saved in the rep, aka safe click maphack)
i know i used a hack to make some of those click, which would be impossible to make without a map hack, BUT BWCHART DIDNT DETECT THOSE, EVENTHOUGH THEY WERE IN THE REPLAY! got it now dumbass?
i also checked another replay which is 100% hack coz of 5 frames gather actions, and there were suspüicious actions, aka no hack used according to this method.
the selects will not be marked suspicious when u play against computers. run your tests with a real player.
shall i quote myself? there you go: "i made 3 games so far and all of them are less than 1 min, coz i played vs myself with multi bw on a local PvPGN network:"
so i didnt play vs computer, i tested that first, and saw that it doesnt work, thats why i played against myself on PvPGN.
disMami, did you make sure that the map hack was completely closed when you did your first test. Simply disabling the maphack won't work, it needs to be completely closed.
On April 21 2008 18:50 disMami wrote: i wonder how good this was tested.
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Read before post !
you tell me to read before i post? DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE?
YOU DUMB FUCK DONT GET IT AT ALL!
i read really good how to do it. but you obviously are too stupid to get what im questioning in my post!
i made 3 games so far and all of them are less than 1 min, coz i played vs myself with multi bw on a local PvPGN network: 1 without maphack and clicks on enemy buildings, when i had vision of them 1 with maphack #1 and clicks through the fog of war (aka hack clicks) 1 with maphack #2 and clicks through the fog of war and with vision on
result: 1. 0 suspicious 2. 0 suspisious 3. 0 suspisious (but no select actions got saved in the rep, aka safe click maphack)
i know i used a hack to make some of those click, which would be impossible to make without a map hack, BUT BWCHART DIDNT DETECT THOSE, EVENTHOUGH THEY WERE IN THE REPLAY! got it now dumbass?
i also checked another replay which is 100% hack coz of 5 frames gather actions, and there were suspüicious actions, aka no hack used according to this method.
No Caps please.
As for your question, you should definitely read the OP before shouting.
On April 20 2008 22:04 Hot_Bid wrote: Reload BWChart to refresh. Now BWChart will mark any selection of an opponent's unit as suspicious. When you reload BWChart, go to "Charts" and uncheck all the boxes in the bottom left box instead of "Suspicious" and you should see suspicious events in red.
Lack of any suspicious actions is what is actually suspicious though.
You are looking for Zero Suspicious actions. As you have said, the maphack you are using prevented the clicks you made on your opponents building to show up in the replay. This is what the method is looking for.
On April 21 2008 18:50 disMami wrote: i wonder how good this was tested.
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Read before post !
you tell me to read before i post? DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE?
YOU DUMB FUCK DONT GET IT AT ALL!
i read really good how to do it. but you obviously are too stupid to get what im questioning in my post!
Manner please. Why don't you try like a 15 min game on BNet with hack completely disabled? 0 suspicious w/Hack is expected.
On April 21 2008 21:02 t_co wrote: again i repeat we should pay flag out of the tsl prize pool
If he wins TSL then sure, promising a certain amount of cash for the 1st 2nd 3rd place etc. and then change it 3 hours before the qualifiers so we can give flag some of the money would be retarded, it's not gonna happen so just drop it already.
On April 21 2008 18:50 disMami wrote: i wonder how good this was tested.
i just made some little tests, and the result was way different than in the explanation.
when i selected enemy buildings without any hack on i got 0 suspicious actions. when i loaded maphack #1 and selected buildings trough the fog of war, those clicks came up in the rep, but were not marked as hack or suspicious. then i loaded maphack #2 and selected through the fog of war, those clicks didnt show up in the rep at all.
i dont want to make this method bad or anything, but i really wonder how it got tested and who the so called "experts" are who verfied this method.
i will make some more tests, and post the result, with the replays. but i have an exam tomorrow so i cant spend to much time.
To do so, open BWChart v1.03G, go to “Options” and “Other Options.” Change the “Suspicious events” field to “Ignore events after: 2000 minutes instead of minutes (default).” Reload BWChart to refresh. Read before post !
you tell me to read before i post? DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE?
YOU DUMB FUCK DONT GET IT AT ALL!
i read really good how to do it. but you obviously are too stupid to get what im questioning in my post!
i made 3 games so far and all of them are less than 1 min, coz i played vs myself with multi bw on a local PvPGN network: 1 without maphack and clicks on enemy buildings, when i had vision of them 1 with maphack #1 and clicks through the fog of war (aka hack clicks) 1 with maphack #2 and clicks through the fog of war and with vision on
result: 1. 0 suspicious 2. 0 suspisious 3. 0 suspisious (but no select actions got saved in the rep, aka safe click maphack)
i know i used a hack to make some of those click, which would be impossible to make without a map hack, BUT BWCHART DIDNT DETECT THOSE, EVENTHOUGH THEY WERE IN THE REPLAY! got it now dumbass?
i also checked another replay which is 100% hack coz of 5 frames gather actions, and there were suspüicious actions, aka no hack used according to this method.
the selects will not be marked suspicious when u play against computers. run your tests with a real player.
shall i quote myself? there you go: "i made 3 games so far and all of them are less than 1 min, coz i played vs myself with multi bw on a local PvPGN network:"
so i didnt play vs computer, i tested that first, and saw that it doesnt work, thats why i played against myself on PvPGN.
lol shall i quote myself? there you go: "run your tests with a real player" and i mean not yourself.
sT-Kassios- full proof , National member of france A , player in wgtour ladder , iccup and TSL-
Replay pack of 8 replays : 8 games 0 sus selects .(wgtour clanleague) [url blocked] Also , if you want more replays ( all +15 minutes ) , Bundy ( france A) checked 15 others "fresh" replays , all with 0 susp slect. ( if some tsl admin need em just pm me).
On April 21 2008 18:46 kroko wrote: Some comments I found funny in "Spades Rep Pack" Topic.
"+ Your timing is great. You know very well the optimum times to push out against toss after they react to your FE."
"- Your academy work is pretty poor. In most of the games, you rarely use your scan. Your comstats are at 200 constantly, and you only check expos sporadically. This is the biggest hole in your game that I saw. Of course, you win in all your reps, so it doesn't seem to hurt you, but I assume in some other games it has."
"My TvP style is based on my timing pushes"
"But thanks for the criticisms, i have a paranoia tvp of not having scan energy for dts/arbs. So i try to scan as little as possible, but i have to get around that and start using them more frequently." LOL...
" NerO United States. February 06 2008 14:14. Posts 1644 PM Profile Quote he only has good timing cus he hacks all florida players hack. 2004 vote hack 2000 vote hack" Good call, sir !
"wow some nice TvP's i've only watched the first 3 reps, vs mgz)li, and i'm pretty amazed the gosu timings and game sense. its like whenever i go 3 facs with late ebay, i always get owned. Maybe thast why i'm noob..."
HAHAHAHAHAH that is funniest stuff...now i think back hen i was watching some gosu reps and thinking these sorts of comments...ha..i guess al i had to do as dl hacks? problem solved.
On April 21 2008 21:12 AnOth3rDAy wrote: One important thing:
Its good that we can catch hackers. But dont make HASTY DECISIONS
For example: BW-Space is on the hackers list.
Yet there is only 1 replay of him with no clicks. This was not evidence enough according to this method. I feel that most people are abit too eager to catch the hackers and if they find someone calling someone a hacker and posting 1 rep at some sight they post it at their own site aswell. If BW-Space is really a hacker, then so be it. But atleast wait for some more replays, OR post the replays for us to download.
I know many real hackers will be caught, but there might be some exceptions if the replaycount is too low.
/Anotherday
I also checked a couple of BW-Space reps in my folder. It seems like he doesn't click much on enemy units/buildings so that might be it. Only a few suspicious actions in every rep I found. This post at teamliquid was very throughout and I have no reason to distrust them about the names the first post, but the german brood war community on BWCL need to gather more evidence before I believe them about the names posted there.
I also checked some xzoz reps, I don't think he should be on that list either.
Here is my official post. Foremost, the method of catching maphackers is ingenious. I'm impressed by the time and effort that was spent dedicated for this cause. I have no way to prove that my WGTCL replays did not have maphack involved since nearly all had no clicks. On January 24th 2008, I declared retirement from Brood War in mist of serving at church, working two jobs, and attending college. My main passion was to serve my second year as a short-term missionary in Mongolia. That day in January apparently wasn't the last time I would be "playing" this game. I received a big money offer to join a team in return that I would win clan wars for them. Initially, I was more for declining and retiring as an S.pG). The sum increased and I couldn't refuse. In the back of my mind, I knew this was a mistake because I would just be taking money and not showing up. Drastic times called for drastic measures and I sought some of my friends on west to play as me. I told them that I didn't care if they win or lose as long as they don't make me look newb and ruin my reputation. Obviously, I'm not expecting anyone to believe this statement. However, I admit to not playing my games as a Keeper. In those regards, I should be banned for account sharing and I am deeply sorry for ruining Keepers' reputation. My intentions were not to damage anyone or any team. Yes, I should have stopped completely and not let anyone use my ID in any way, shape, or form. Greed got the best of me and my character, my reputation, my motives have been tainted. I apologize for all of the disappointment and demise I put anyone through, especially Keepers and USA-B.
That's good cause I am not the one sitting here with my hands red. Don't for one second start with the "watch yourself" bullshit. You fucking cheated. You did so thinking that it was ok cause you were fucking making money while cheating. Oh my God. How fucking dumb can you be? Any and all comments you receive from pissed off legit gamers IS DESERVED. YOu should fucking know that. But then again, you thought cheating would maintain some kind of good reputation so it is pretty clear you have no idea how things work.
in case there was any ambiguity there: I AM HERE TO BM YOU. YOU CHEATED. YOU DESERVE THIS. It's the least I can do buddy! Public shaming has been a communal form of punishment for thousands of years! I enjoy it
I just reviewed my reps from MOTC and Localhost has no clicks there EITHER. So how many times did he accidentally leave it on?? Im ashamed, I really was a fan of localhosts.
And how many stupid fuckers think any of us believe that their FRIENDS played, LOL...
You fucking hackers make me literally sick, Im not even joking, I think of your stupid hacker faces and instantly have the shits. Fuck you, you worthless slug worms.
On April 22 2008 01:09 Shauni wrote: I also checked a couple of BW-Space reps in my folder. It seems like he doesn't click much on enemy units/buildings so that might be it. Only a few suspicious actions in every rep I found. This post at teamliquid was very throughout and I have no reason to distrust them about the names the first post, but the german brood war community on BWCL need to gather more evidence before I believe them about the names posted there.
I also checked some xzoz reps, I don't think he should be on that list either.
bwcl has nothing to do with that, it was just a post by a normal user in the broodwar.de board.
On April 21 2008 18:46 kroko wrote: Some comments I found funny in "Spades Rep Pack" Topic.
"+ Your timing is great. You know very well the optimum times to push out against toss after they react to your FE."
"- Your academy work is pretty poor. In most of the games, you rarely use your scan. Your comstats are at 200 constantly, and you only check expos sporadically. This is the biggest hole in your game that I saw. Of course, you win in all your reps, so it doesn't seem to hurt you, but I assume in some other games it has."
"My TvP style is based on my timing pushes"
"But thanks for the criticisms, i have a paranoia tvp of not having scan energy for dts/arbs. So i try to scan as little as possible, but i have to get around that and start using them more frequently." LOL...
" NerO United States. February 06 2008 14:14. Posts 1644 PM Profile Quote he only has good timing cus he hacks all florida players hack. 2004 vote hack 2000 vote hack" Good call, sir !
"wow some nice TvP's i've only watched the first 3 reps, vs mgz)li, and i'm pretty amazed the gosu timings and game sense. its like whenever i go 3 facs with late ebay, i always get owned. Maybe thast why i'm noob..."
I think he was one of those players that always changed alias's, because he said he was friends with me in the past ( 2003ish) and i dont remember it o_o. He had koreans play for him on iccup and most clanwars, i mean come on someone who goes 113-12 on iccup wont lose to average players on lan ;p.
On April 22 2008 11:49 Xeris wrote: of everyone caught hacking, Localhost is the classiest... doesn't excuse what he did, but at least he's handling himself well.
meh, he still hasn't admitted to hacking, just that he had it backgrounded on his comp. i'll explain why this doesn't work.
first, you must load oblivion every time you start brood war. so the only way he'd be able to do it is if he loaded it every time to practice, then continued immediately to play the tournament. this is unlikely because the tournaments were of different dates (Excello Cup, Ascension, MoTC). he also did not hack on WGTCL, so he'd have to only have practiced with hack for non-WGTCL events despite the dates being intersecting, and have practiced with hack before each match in every tournament every time.
he also said he played Excello Cup from a web cafe, which again doesn't make sense because you have to load the hack when BW starts. so he either has to have practiced with hack at the same web cafe immediately before playing his Excello Cup matches, or the hack was already loaded on the web cafe computer. neither of these two scenarios are very likely.
On April 22 2008 15:23 Night2o1 wrote: I REALLY love how this method catches everyone retroactively; the hackers have no defense against this.
ya, thats what i meant in one of my earlier posts. even if they find a way to bypass this, we still have these last few years worth of replays to go through. no longer can they remain hidden with no risk of being discovered.
He got owned for several games, others got a ban for just 1 game before. It´s good that we are able to clean up again, ladders and leagues, even if its lot work to do
On April 22 2008 01:09 Shauni wrote: I also checked a couple of BW-Space reps in my folder. It seems like he doesn't click much on enemy units/buildings so that might be it. Only a few suspicious actions in every rep I found. This post at teamliquid was very throughout and I have no reason to distrust them about the names the first post, but the german brood war community on BWCL need to gather more evidence before I believe them about the names posted there.
I also checked some xzoz reps, I don't think he should be on that list either.
bwcl has nothing to do with that, it was just a post by a normal user in the broodwar.de board.
so space got banned from iccup on account of someones mad ravings ?
and btw this sesame street thing is getting out of hand
i dont know why he got banned but we (the bwcl) didnt ban anybody yet. think there was a nationwar rep against zarrr where both had null clicks or something like that. but i am not sure.
On April 22 2008 19:43 Trust wrote: i dont know why he got banned but we (the bwcl) didnt ban anybody yet. think there was a nationwar rep against zarrr where both had null clicks or something like that. but i am not sure.
1 question, what does it take to get banned from bwcl ? If proof given here + confessions is not enough..
Oh yeah Space dosent hack here, some iccup admin just has sensitive banfinger..
On April 22 2008 19:43 Trust wrote: i dont know why he got banned but we (the bwcl) didnt ban anybody yet. think there was a nationwar rep against zarrr where both had null clicks or something like that. but i am not sure.
1 question, what does it take to get banned from bwcl ? If proof given here + confessions is not enough.
The hackers will be banned, but there wasn't an announcement yet. The thread on the german forum linked here is not an official bwcl ban thread.
1.Testie vs Smuft game from ESL qualifications Testie lost but in 17min he had 0 suspicious clicks and Smuft had 14 suspicious
2.MisterZZZ vs Keeper-Vikter i think also from ESL qualifications Keeper-Vikter also lost but 0 suspicious clicks in 27min game MisterZZZ had 13 suspicious clicks
3.gNs.l-iDominate vs Keeper-Roland what is funny here ? i checked reps this Dominate guy uploaded fake rep for his wgtcl game and suprise ? there is always one keeper in the party Keeper-Roland have 0 suspicious clicks in 25+ min game and Dominate have 27 suspicious clicks
I am not acusing those players for hack ,but i am interested in testie replay
As I have already said, I had never been a maphacker as I am accused. Nevertheless, I had Oblivion installed (only for training purposes, but still it's a hack); I let down my team, I made admins waste their time to reveal the maphack and not do more important things... I admit that I must take punishment...
I know how hard it is for the team to just throw me out. I always considered myself a manner player, and in this case I have to gather my courage and leave the team myself instead of hiding behind friends' backs. I am not going to quit SC. You will see me again on LANs (Yeah, right! So many hackers in offlines, it is just scary, right?). Until then I am gone. I hope that one day you will forgive me. I am indeed very sorry that this has happened :'(
Farewell, Victor Lopatin, Ex-player of RoX - localhost.
On April 22 2008 20:49 GongKyuckTerran wrote: Here are few more reps:
1.Testie vs Smuft game from ESL qualifications Testie lost but in 17min he had 0 suspicious clicks and Smuft had 14 suspicious
2.MisterZZZ vs Keeper-Vikter i think also from ESL qualifications Keeper-Vikter also lost but 0 suspicious clicks in 27min game MisterZZZ had 13 suspicious clicks
3.gNs.l-iDominate vs Keeper-Roland what is funny here ? i checked reps this Dominate guy uploaded fake rep for his wgtcl game and suprise ? there is always one keeper in the party Keeper-Roland have 0 suspicious clicks in 25+ min game and Dominate have 27 suspicious clicks
I am not acusing those players for hack ,but i am interested in testie replay
2.MisterZZZ vs Keeper-Vikter i think also from ESL qualifications Keeper-Vikter also lost but 0 suspicious clicks in 27min game MisterZZZ had 13 suspicious click
pretty sure vikter is a past hacker from brazil iirc. i think he went by the name khrest in early wgt seasons or i am thinking of someone else
That testie rep looks really bad. There were alot of times in the replay where clicking units would have been needed for micro, attacking weakened zeals and goons ... Does not look good for testie.
Just wondering but why are you guys not banning testie from this event besides for the fact that he played some wcg's i don't see how he is any different from some of these other pieces of trash. I don't know about the rest of you but i know of several ladders (while small still ladders none the less i.e. fox ladder) ruined specifically by testie and his maphack.
Cheating ruins the game and people who have been found cheating should be removed from the community.
It was a very long time ago that testie hacked. That replay was probably just a fluke.. every other replay of his from that tournyment had clicks. Just let it go.
so this is the list? if so can any admin make it in 1st post and update any newcoming hack guys? ps, i just checked i got 1400 mb (14.000) reps on my pc from all top gamers in european community if i got any way to scan them all fast im pretty sure there wil be hackers in it... (no website reps)
so this is the list? if so can any admin make it in 1st post and update any newcoming hack guys? ps, i just checked i got 1400 mb (14.000) reps on my pc from all top gamers in european community if i got any way to scan them all fast im pretty sure there wil be hackers in it... (no website reps)
rsk.blaster as well.
And to answer your question no there isnt a fast way to scan replays currently. Maybe R1CH or MoC can program one ?
On April 23 2008 02:36 [X]Ken_D wrote: Watch imba.ColdFire from TSL Mondragon replay pack. In all his replays, his timing and awareness is light years above everyone else or ....
I would put him at suspicious. Anyone else played him?
The hack doesn't work with iccup antihack and he has lots of suspicious actions in the games against mondragon. So i don't see a reason to think he hacks.
Xzoz.ReV shouldnt be on that list noone ever posted reps of him i think its some hate from german kids that he won ger B alone not long ago(if i see reps with 0 i will change my mind ofc),
Anyway this is my list of proven hackers from wgtour cw reps
im posting this on behalf of Incomplete.ReV ( aka Heaven.ReV ) :
The list given by bw.de is in no way reliable. The process from accusation to “deciding a hacker” is nothing short of ridiculous. I quote from the gg.net thread:
“germans put everyone on list, its like: person a : "XYZ hacks" person b : " I knew it always" person c : "ok he is on list" person a : "haha more hackerzZz plz" person b : " XYX hacks" person a : "haha i knew it always" person c : "ok he is on list”
Here’s the summary to make things simple: The list from bw.de is rather a list of who hurt their pride. The list is not representing each and every German, as that’d make them all pretty much brainless morons running around up to no good in their neighbourhood (høh høh). There are massive evidence that XzOz.ReV is innocent.
-I myself has checked each and every replays I’ve got of him and nothing has been found. -Each replay from LoW (which was mentioned at bw.de) has susp.acts. -Returned from WGTour.com has had a quick look at him and found nothing. Note that this is a quick peek (probably of the reps available at wgtour.com, and does not represent his final statement and he is not responsible for false accusations, if XzOz.ReV is proven guilty for some miraculous reason.) - The Germans with brain activity is still asking for any evidence at all against XzOz.ReV at bw.de
The reason I’m writing all this is because I don’t want any false rumours as it’ll swiftly turn into some sort of general truth, not matter how big a lie it is. The list is not reliable and I suggest we all wait for the cooperative sites to make a common public statement regarding the hackers. Feel free to accuse to the admins but refrain from assuming people are hacking just like that.
furthermore i would like to add that i find it hillarious that people are accusing XzOz of hacking and putting him on that list regardless of any proof whatsoever.
The germans are just being INCREDIBLY bitter, because germany B was winning lots of NW's hands down, and then xzoz went and 4-1 them ( almost all killing them! ). the germans just cant accept this and therefore go around pointing the fingers saying he is a hacker.
so we know that without maphack you cant select enemy units you don't have view of. but what if you were, in fog of war, looking around their base and clicking around, and you happened to click on a position where an enemy unit was, although you didnt know it was there, would it still register as a suspicious click?
On April 23 2008 03:53 SkelA wrote: Xzoz.ReV shouldnt be on that list noone ever posted reps of him i think its some hate from german kids that he won ger B alone not long ago(if i see reps with 0 i will change my mind ofc),
Anyway this is my list of proven hackers from wgtour cw reps
After everyone told you that Turin isn´t a hacker, even isn´t a player, you insist in put him in the hacker list. A 30 APM guy playing 4 minutes games, are NOT PROOF genius.
On April 23 2008 02:36 [X]Ken_D wrote: Watch imba.ColdFire from TSL Mondragon replay pack. In all his replays, his timing and awareness is light years above everyone else or ....
I would put him at suspicious. Anyone else played him?
The hack doesn't work with iccup antihack and he has lots of suspicious actions in the games against mondragon. So i don't see a reason to think he hacks.
Did you watch all his replays against Mondragon? Just because he wasn't detected doesn't mean he didn't hack. If you watch his replay you might think otherwise. His scouting just happens to *ALWAYS* catch any proxy or allin at the perfect time in every replay. It''s not just a few times, but every replay and so often in 1 single replay. If that is not suspicious then what is? Even pros don't play that good. I watched it with only his vision on.
It's not my job to look for hackers, but I just notice it when I was watching Mondragon's TSL replay pack. Rather than just say "no, he didn't hack" without even trying, but instead look at it then think.
The list given by bw.de is in no way reliable. The process from accusation to “deciding a hacker” is nothing short of ridiculous. I quote from the gg.net thread:
“germans put everyone on list, its like: person a : "XYZ hacks" person b : " I knew it always" person c : "ok he is on list" person a : "haha more hackerzZz plz" person b : " XYX hacks" person a : "haha i knew it always" person c : "ok he is on list”
Here’s the summary to make things simple: The list from bw.de is rather a list of who hurt their pride. The list is not representing each and every German, as that’d make them all pretty much brainless morons running around up to no good in their neighbourhood (høh høh). There are massive evidence that XzOz.ReV is innocent.
-I myself has checked each and every replays I’ve got of him and nothing has been found. -Each replay from LoW (which was mentioned at bw.de) has susp.acts. -Returned from WGTour.com has had a quick look at him and found nothing. Note that this is a quick peek (probably of the reps available at wgtour.com, and does not represent his final statement and he is not responsible for false accusations, if XzOz.ReV is proven guilty for some miraculous reason.) - The Germans with brain activity is still asking for any evidence at all against XzOz.ReV at bw.de
The reason I’m writing all this is because I don’t want any false rumours as it’ll swiftly turn into some sort of general truth, not matter how big a lie it is. The list is not reliable and I suggest we all wait for the cooperative sites to make a common public statement regarding the hackers. Feel free to accuse to the admins but refrain from assuming people are hacking just like that.
furthermore i would like to add that i find it hillarious that people are accusing XzOz of hacking and putting him on that list regardless of any proof whatsoever.
The germans are just being INCREDIBLY bitter, because germany B was winning lots of NW's hands down, and then xzoz went and 4-1 them ( almost all killing them! ). the germans just cant accept this and therefore go around pointing the fingers saying he is a hacker.
its really pathetic and immature.
There is definitely a lot of rumors or hearsay and I so far there has not been any solid proof whatsoever of a hacking incident with xzoz. Although some Germans might be bitter, please do not generalize this and call all Germans bitter, because frankly, this is not the case. Thank you.
ok cheloman i will remove him from list are you happy now?? i understand the case with turin we have exactly the same case in our clan and i dont consider him as hacker so i will remove him and stop mentioning him ^^
On April 23 2008 03:53 SkelA wrote: Xzoz.ReV shouldnt be on that list noone ever posted reps of him i think its some hate from german kids that he won ger B alone not long ago(if i see reps with 0 i will change my mind ofc),
Anyway this is my list of proven hackers from wgtour cw reps
WGT is banning people without using the method correctly. They aren't looking for old replays with enemy clicks and then comparing them with a bunch of replays without a single enemy click.
WGT is banning people with a single replay wtf ? If people does not use this method properly, they will make a lot of false acusations and then every real hacker will defend himself "that method was fake, remember how they made mistakes with X, Y and Z... I never hacked!!"
I was looking through rsk.blasters games on iccup to see if he hacked, and while there were a bunch of reps with no clicks, there were a bunch of reps that had clicks. The difference was that the replays with no clicks had splits on 15 (bnet latency) which means that he probably played with no AH. No big deal really, but I've found some replays - 2 of them-, one 10 minutes the other 21, where the players split with lan latency (meaning the AH was on) but blaster still has no clicks (in both games what are the odds??). This looks like he was hacking, with AH on... very troubling. Are there known hacks that work around the iccup AH?
Well Coldfire was most likely using maphack too on this TSL season. If you watch some of his replays it's blatantly obvious he maphacked the whole season. So well yes it's possible to maphack.
On April 23 2008 16:32 Telemako wrote: WGT is banning people without using the method correctly. They aren't looking for old replays with enemy clicks and then comparing them with a bunch of replays without a single enemy click.
WGT is banning people with a single replay wtf ? If people does not use this method properly, they will make a lot of false acusations and then every real hacker will defend himself "that method was fake, remember how they made mistakes with X, Y and Z... I never hacked!!"
wrong, there are rep packs collected from WGT, BWCL, ICCUP to compare
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned.. but what happens if the hacker turns on/off during the game? Will the bwchart not show suspicious clicks when hack is turned on, but show suspicious clicks when hack is turned off ?
I have played spades about 30 times.. it's weird because sometimes he has like 10~15 susp. clicks, sometimes he has 1~3, i think there is only one or two replays where he has no suspicious clicks (all more than 15 minutes long)
personally I didn't think coldfire was hacking... at least when I played vs him, he didn't play like he had hacks on or anything... just seemed like a mass gamer, that's all
The list given by bw.de is in no way reliable. The process from accusation to “deciding a hacker” is nothing short of ridiculous. I quote from the gg.net thread:
“germans put everyone on list, its like: person a : "XYZ hacks" person b : " I knew it always" person c : "ok he is on list" person a : "haha more hackerzZz plz" person b : " XYX hacks" person a : "haha i knew it always" person c : "ok he is on list”
Here’s the summary to make things simple: The list from bw.de is rather a list of who hurt their pride. The list is not representing each and every German, as that’d make them all pretty much brainless morons running around up to no good in their neighbourhood (høh høh). There are massive evidence that XzOz.ReV is innocent.
-I myself has checked each and every replays I’ve got of him and nothing has been found. -Each replay from LoW (which was mentioned at bw.de) has susp.acts. -Returned from WGTour.com has had a quick look at him and found nothing. Note that this is a quick peek (probably of the reps available at wgtour.com, and does not represent his final statement and he is not responsible for false accusations, if XzOz.ReV is proven guilty for some miraculous reason.) - The Germans with brain activity is still asking for any evidence at all against XzOz.ReV at bw.de
The reason I’m writing all this is because I don’t want any false rumours as it’ll swiftly turn into some sort of general truth, not matter how big a lie it is. The list is not reliable and I suggest we all wait for the cooperative sites to make a common public statement regarding the hackers. Feel free to accuse to the admins but refrain from assuming people are hacking just like that.
furthermore i would like to add that i find it hillarious that people are accusing XzOz of hacking and putting him on that list regardless of any proof whatsoever
The germans are just being INCREDIBLY bitter, because germany B was winning lots of NW's hands down, and then xzoz went and 4-1 them ( almost all killing them! ). the germans just cant accept this and therefore go around pointing the fingers saying he is a hacker.
its really pathetic and immature.
First of all i agree with you that there is no way to accuse persons without a solid proof of evidence. But now you are pointing at "this germans out of that forum" in a way that also doesnt fit the reality.
As this new method to find hackers was notified some where certainly very enthusiastic. The idea of one person where to create such an list to make things easier for the community to identify hackers. But the person didnt really had the time to follow all hints which he got from other persons.
So this was more an suspicious list for board users to look at their own about replays and to proof this. Only a small number of users where enthusiastic in a childish way right before they checked something on their own and others brought this list even outside.
The quote of gg.net by the way is from a german user(inferno-t) who caught with proof to be an hacker and he even confessed it on the board so he got banned. Now he is maybe trying to bitch things up as much as possible cause his description is more than exaggerated. Even before Heaven.Rev for example showed up many german people in the board criticized that list as they saw it was already brought outside into other forums even it wasnt a solid proofed one.
So pls dont generalize and but wrong intentions in people. Because i think most of the people in this board doesnt care about old nationwars.
On April 23 2008 16:32 Telemako wrote: WGT is banning people without using the method correctly. They aren't looking for old replays with enemy clicks and then comparing them with a bunch of replays without a single enemy click.
WGT is banning people with a single replay wtf ? If people does not use this method properly, they will make a lot of false acusations and then every real hacker will defend himself "that method was fake, remember how they made mistakes with X, Y and Z... I never hacked!!"
wrong, there are rep packs collected from WGT, BWCL, ICCUP to compare
I was reading this and it looked like somebody points to Kal.Boss aka inneoov aka dada with one replay and after a couple of post an admin comes and announces his ban. So every case is being investigated, enough valid replays gathered and then decision taken? I'm glad then ^_^
This "bust" was really awesome, good to see that players are actually getting caught and that they can never feel safe. Hopefully we will see that the number of hackers decreases.
ok well i guess he was bragging about being ig but was really fake, not really surprised hes been hacking for so long.... besiger i was busy assembling a rep pack and ive compiled 8 replays of him vs me and my friends all suspicious evets a hacker reppack
On April 23 2008 17:58 stalife wrote: personally I didn't think coldfire was hacking... at least when I played vs him, he didn't play like he had hacks on or anything... just seemed like a mass gamer, that's all
i played coldfire twice and he really didnt seem like a hacker to me, but he also seemed like he didnt really know how to tvt so that could account for it.
By the way, the newest Oblivion is now out and it fixes the safeclicks thing, so for replays dated after the announcement date, the method doesn't work.
On April 24 2008 00:15 Hot_Bid wrote: By the way, the newest Oblivion is now out and it fixes the safeclicks thing, so for replays dated after the announcement date, the method doesn't work.
does that mean, people can hack again? I really hope that all hackers got cought. TSL is such a great event!!!!!!!
This method doesn't work against all hacks, only detectable ones like Oblivion. So even with the method there isn't a guarantee that everyone is clean. After the announcement, even without a new Oblivion method it'd be impossible to catch hackers who knew about the method, because they can just play many games and purposely not click on anything to fuck with the "clean" replay statistics.
So yeah, there's never a guarantee that nobody hacks and that all hackers got caught.
this is probably a dumb as hell question, but on bwchart is the clicking on an opponents object reported only when you click it to see health or also when you target attacks?
On April 24 2008 01:59 yare wrote: this is probably a dumb as hell question, but on bwchart is the clicking on an opponents object reported only when you click it to see health or also when you target attacks?
id feel much better if iccup updated their launcher .... www.bwhacks.com has updated their site, making it look all fancy and shit like their doing big business. SOMEONE HACK THAT SITE AND PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!
On April 24 2008 11:31 N.H wrote: id feel much better if iccup updated their launcher .... www.bwhacks.com has updated their site, making it look all fancy and shit like their doing big business. SOMEONE HACK THAT SITE AND PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!
I don't think any of the hacks on bwh works with ICCupAH. Most of the hackers there think ICCup should be left alone.
It's so sad... What do they earn from hacking? If they really want to be good they should practice. It's really cheap to use hacks so that people think you are a good player, specially in spades case... since he came out from nowhere to start bashing players who played way better than him (in everyones opinion) (:
On April 24 2008 19:13 n3m0 wrote: It's so sad... What do they earn from hacking? If they really want to be good they should practice. It's really cheap to use hacks so that people think you are a good player, specially in spades case... since he came out from nowhere to start bashing players who played way better than him (in everyones opinion) (:
Anyway good job :p
It's that they cannot become good enough because they wouldn't realize their weaknesses. With maphack they can avoid blundering easily without damaging their soo vulnerable ego. They start winning almost everything and many of them don't even feel like cheating because they seem to believe they deserve winning anyway. As if you shouldn't need to put in hard work anymore if you got some talent. Their hearts are weak, so is their mind. And finally, what do they earn? Success and fame. They ignore the fact that they/most of them suck hard without maphack, they believe that they can do well without it tho they keep using it.
Ignorance, weakness and fear results in cheating. Maybe lonelyness, too...
On April 24 2008 06:29 N.H wrote: i dont think you need to post east kids here, because seriously who on east doesnt hack. It's just such a lame server
In a competitive setting, there is obviously no justification for one player to be leveraging an inequitable advantage over the others through use of a 3rd-party program.
However, after reading this thread and investigating the [link removed] website, I'm actually rather impressed at all the work these amateur programmers have put into their hacks. Many of the more benign features of the Oblivion program, for example, are significant improvements to the Battle.net interface that I'd be surprised if Blizzard themselves weren't considering for their own eventual server upgrade.
I really do think it rather interesting just how much can be altered/affected, for better or worse, within the BW and BNet infrastructure.
i havent read the whole topic, but i have 8 out of 52 "hack"-replays of sea.s2 who is nada. is this new?
two are from 1.11, 6 from 1.14. 6 (from both versions) are vs choi (i believe damnchoi is choi?), one vs artist and one vs sarang. i can uplod them to RS tonight if you want to.
i dont believe that a korean progamer with very high apm never klicks on an enemy building/unit
On April 20 2008 22:30 iG.ClouD wrote: Burn in hell idiots you are the worst scum ever. TT1 I don't wanna have anything to do with you anymore go die a painful death. Executor + Push you fuckers dared to insult me when I told everyone you were maphacking YOU ARE FUCKING TRASH. God bless oblivion, best antihack ever.
Muarf!
Man, this is a game, if you didn't notice.
I'm glad this has been done and well done. Hackers are a fucking plague in BW world. However, everybody can do mistakes. So relax, man.
On April 20 2008 22:30 iG.ClouD wrote: Burn in hell idiots you are the worst scum ever. TT1 I don't wanna have anything to do with you anymore go die a painful death. Executor + Push you fuckers dared to insult me when I told everyone you were maphacking YOU ARE FUCKING TRASH. God bless oblivion, best antihack ever.
Muarf!
Man, this is a game, if you didn't notice.
I'm glad this has been done and well done. Hackers are a fucking plague in BW world. However, everybody can do mistakes. So relax, man.
Just adding this is a game, but the tourney they are playing has money prizes i would be the same way cloud did
On April 25 2008 06:12 Celial wrote: i havent read the whole topic, but i have 8 out of 52 "hack"-replays of sea.s2 who is nada. is this new?
two are from 1.11, 6 from 1.14. 6 (from both versions) are vs choi (i believe damnchoi is choi?), one vs artist and one vs sarang. i can uplod them to RS tonight if you want to.
i dont believe that a korean progamer with very high apm never klicks on an enemy building/unit
are those legit NaDa replays? if so, you should make a thread about it.
of course, theres 0% that he hacked in those games, but maybe the recent "anti-hack" method isn't so reliable?
On April 25 2008 06:12 Celial wrote: i havent read the whole topic, but i have 8 out of 52 "hack"-replays of sea.s2 who is nada. is this new?
two are from 1.11, 6 from 1.14. 6 (from both versions) are vs choi (i believe damnchoi is choi?), one vs artist and one vs sarang. i can uplod them to RS tonight if you want to.
i dont believe that a korean progamer with very high apm never klicks on an enemy building/unit
are those legit NaDa replays? if so, you should make a thread about it.
of course, theres 0% that he hacked in those games, but maybe the recent "anti-hack" method isn't so reliable?
The NaDa hack scandal flopped years ago when it became apparent that he was using hack in training with people who knew he was. Admittedly a lot of hackers have given this excuse since but given we can be fairly sure he's not hacking in real games then I'm inclined to accept it. Whereas the other hackers who have said they just used it in training are often found with it running in serious games.
On April 24 2008 06:29 N.H wrote: i dont think you need to post east kids here, because seriously who on east doesnt hack. It's just such a lame server
I would like to see more east kids if you find them... i guess only people from clans of x17, gns, onfire, keepers and them...The others don't matter :p
On April 20 2008 22:30 iG.ClouD wrote: Burn in hell idiots you are the worst scum ever. TT1 I don't wanna have anything to do with you anymore go die a painful death. Executor + Push you fuckers dared to insult me when I told everyone you were maphacking YOU ARE FUCKING TRASH. God bless oblivion, best antihack ever.
Muarf!
Man, this is a game, if you didn't notice.
I'm glad this has been done and well done. Hackers are a fucking plague in BW world. However, everybody can do mistakes. So relax, man.
Yeah it's a game, so what? How is that any different from anything? People are allowed to care about what they wish, it's no concern of yours. Passion somewhere is all that matters.
On April 24 2008 07:44 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Our Liquibet number two is a hacker???!?!?!?!???!? Unless it's a different Kassios, in which case my apologies :p
I'm pretty sure thats the same Kassios.
Here are some more caught, banned, and had all their matches reversed at WGT-CL:
By the way, the newest Oblivion is now out and it fixes the safeclicks thing, so for replays dated after the announcement date, the method doesn't work.
This means we can now use the old method of checking if they click on stuff out of fog of war right? Is there any quick way to do this?
By the way, the newest Oblivion is now out and it fixes the safeclicks thing, so for replays dated after the announcement date, the method doesn't work.
This means we can now use the old method of checking if they click on stuff out of fog of war right? Is there any quick way to do this?
If they click stuff out of the fog of war without safe clicks I think it's supposed to say HACK on bwchart, but I'm assuming they fixed it on Oblivion so it doesn't say hack. Also, now that this method of catching hackers is known, the hackers can easily avoid this by just toggling the maphack on and off when needed and purposely putting "suspicious" clicks in, so it's not really reliable anymore. The method used is only good to catch people who hacked prior to the public announcement.
On April 24 2008 07:44 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Our Liquibet number two is a hacker???!?!?!?!???!? Unless it's a different Kassios, in which case my apologies :p
I'm pretty sure thats the same Kassios.
Here are some more caught, banned, and had all their matches reversed at WGT-CL:
can't read all over the thread - but is there a special program that scans for this flag method over a specified replays folder? if notm, i will make one this weekend
On April 25 2008 15:22 araav wrote: can't read all over the thread - but is there a special program that scans for this flag method over a specified replays folder? if notm, i will make one this weekend
Over the past few days since the now infamous "hackers caught" bombshell, we here at sMi have gone to extensive lengths to look into whether or not one of our own is indeed a hacker. As many of you may know and many more may not, sMi is more than just a team, we are a family. Many of the members have been together for five or more years and when it comes to one of our own being called out we take it as a personal responsibility to find out the truth for ourselves.
The result was a several day long plunge into the BW history of Spades. What we found will not surprise many of you since you took the original announcement at face value and went with it. Spades did indeed hack. It seems that he has been hacking since January of 2008, replays prior to that show he did not hack, at least not with the current method of detection.
We reviewed some 150 replays and using an ordering by timeline method we discovered that prior to late January 2008 Spades had at least 1 click in 94% of the games over 15 minutes that he played. After January 28th those clicks practically dissapeared...strange to say the least. He went from 94% to 20% games with clicks. If you then removed a few games we were able to confirm were played on iCCup or LAN then we were left with 0% of his games after Jan 28th with ANY clicks. Thus confirming that he was using an illegitimate program or hack.
These are all the games played before 1/28/08... this is how legit players with few clicks should look
These are the games after 1/28/08 - note the sudden change to all 0 click games. Also note the anomaly games.
Here are the fun statistics. Note that I did not add fonger, kawaiirice, or badapples replays to this. They sent me about 25 replays which all fell in the pattern - after 1/28/08 0 clicks, before 1/28/08 mostly had clicks with a few 0 clicks.
Even after all of this evidence, Spades has decided to stick with his story and deny any allegations that he has hacked/used a hack. My guess is that since he's said/used the story so much since the first call out, he can't back down from it now...I guess.
Anyways, as such evidence has shown and as we've said before in another post somewhere, sMi does not and will not tolerate hacking or abusing in any way. We have removed plenty of "good" people from our team for these reasons before and Spades is no exception. Even though Spades played a big part in our CW lineup, we are without a doubt letting him go due to the results of our investigation.
We here at sMi are sorry for the inconvenience this may have caused and for allowing Spades to be a part of our team while taking advantage of the good natured people that run/host leagues.
By the way, the newest Oblivion is now out and it fixes the safeclicks thing, so for replays dated after the announcement date, the method doesn't work.
This means we can now use the old method of checking if they click on stuff out of fog of war right? Is there any quick way to do this?
If they click stuff out of the fog of war without safe clicks I think it's supposed to say HACK on bwchart, but I'm assuming they fixed it on Oblivion so it doesn't say hack. Also, now that this method of catching hackers is known, the hackers can easily avoid this by just toggling the maphack on and off when needed and purposely putting "suspicious" clicks in, so it's not really reliable anymore. The method used is only good to catch people who hacked prior to the public announcement.
As long as the maphack is running, be it Off, Lite, or Full/On/whatever the third setting is, it should still eliminate suspicious clicks. Toggling wouldn't make any difference. (With the old version, at least)
Is everyone as SICK of these fucking hackers and their shitty attitudes as I am? I'm tried of them fucking up our games and not taking responsibility for it, like wasting peoples well earned leisure time with drophack is a joke.
If you goto their Discussion forums a person asked them politely why they don't play fare (here). Their responses are "Have you ever played starcraft without hacks? shits boring!", "Quit fucking crying" and "Heaven forbid he takes a (undeserved) loss". No mother fucker, heaven forbid you should have to sit down and learn a GAME to earn a win. Heaven forbid you have respect for yourself and your opponent, heaven forbid you apologize for being a dishonest cheat. Every time hackers get exposed (with proof) they start swearing and counter accusing like a degenerate spazz. After taking it lying down for 3+ years, I want to fuck with their shit now. I have no sympathy for them, lets get dirty .
TL its time to show them shit ain't sweet! We need to fight back. Post ideas!
I was thinking we could get Google to say their site is potentially harmful like those warez sites. They would lose a ton of visitors that way. Its small but its a start!
Also do any supporters live close to... Administrative Contact: Burke, Mike earwacks@cox.net BWHacks 2021 E. Soft Wind Dr Phoenix, Arizona 85024 United States 4802429319 WhoIs results
On April 26 2008 06:59 bustaBust wrote: Is everyone as SICK of these fucking hackers and their shitty attitudes as I am? I'm tried of them fucking up our games and not taking responsibility for it, like wasting peoples well earned leisure time with drophack is a joke.
If you goto their Discussion forums a person asked them politely why they don't play fair (here). Their responses are "Have you ever played starcraft without hacks? shits boring!", "Quit fucking crying" and "Heaven forbid he takes a (undeserved) loss". No mother fucker, heaven forbid you should have to sit down and learn a GAME to earn a win. Heaven forbid you have respect for yourself and your opponent, heaven forbid you apologize for being a dishonest cheat. Every time hackers get exposed (with proof) they start swearing and counter accusing like a degenerate spazz. After taking it lying down for 3+ years, I want to fuck with their shit now. I have no sympathy for them, lets get dirty .
TL its time to show them shit ain't sweet! We need to fight back. Post ideas!
I was thinking we could get Google to say their site is potentially harmful like those warez sites. They would loose a ton of visitors that way. Its small but its a start!
Also do any supporters live close to... Administrative Contact: Burke, Mike earwacks@cox.net BWHacks 2021 E. Soft Wind Dr Phoenix, Arizona 85024 United States 4802429319 WhoIs results
lol it's pointless even talking to them. They are for hacking, so that's why they disagreed to everything that "Fathom" said.
I'm sorry if I misconstrued what I said, let me clarify. They are bad mannered, selfish liars. I have no intent on politely asking them to cease hacking as we've already seen the result. What I am proposing is we beat them at their own game, and possibly more. What I want is for hackers/the person who creates the hacks to be as inconvenienced as we are when our games get disrupted. I realize some people will think this is a waste of time, but I know I'm not the only one who wants something done about the rampid hacking.
If its not feasible at least we tried. But I think with the amount of talent on TL its completely feasible. We have programmers just like they do. If they can update their hacks in 2 days, why can't we make automatic hacker dropper tool? They're so many ways you can mess with someone when you have 200+ TLers at your disposal at any one time. We own the internet, do we not?
I don't think that you can argue with these people but although hacking sucks, random people hacking in public games is not the problem; the problem is that we don't have a hack free environment to avoid cheating and hacking in clan leagues, tournaments etc.
Maybe we should even give them more spotlight and try to communicate with the programmers more. I mean, people who want to hack will continue anyway and these are also the lame kiddies saying that playing without hack sucks. I vouch Zynastor as the next interviewee for RaGe!
To be honest, I think I'm sympathizing with TT1 right now.
I hate hackers. I wish they'd rot and burn. I've never even used maphacks for Diablo 2, and fucking everyone does. The thing is, TT1 seems to be making an honest effort to reform. Is it too little too late? Probably for most people.
TT1 may be like a criminal with an extensive record trying to reform. But if he's serious about it, he'll have to endure many months of hardship. Still, if people gave Testie a second chance (and yes, the young'en out there might not remember, but Testie was caught multiple different times and then later admitted to having hacked even after he was supposedly clean -- all the way as late as 02), then holding a double standard towards other hackers would be pitiful. I guess it just sucks for TT1 that he has neither the skill nor the charisma of Testie.
Meh, I might get banned for bringing up such old news, but I DON'T mean to use it to breed e-drama. The reason I bring it up is to remind people not to have double standards. It's fine if you say "I'll never forgive any hackers" and it's fine if you say "I'll forgive them if they prove themselves capable of reform." Really, I don't care either way, but it bothers me a bit that people have such double standards.
Do I think TT1 should have been allowed to finish this tourney? No. Why not? The rules said that you can't have hacked within so many months of the tourney. That was an ironclad rule and it was broken. It was right to ban him. I'm not so sure it's right for the community to get all bunched up in the panties when the community has such a history of forgiveness of hackers. That's all.
On April 26 2008 06:59 bustaBust wrote: Is everyone as SICK of these fucking hackers and their shitty attitudes as I am? I'm tried of them fucking up our games and not taking responsibility for it, like wasting peoples well earned leisure time with drophack is a joke.
If you goto their Discussion forums a person asked them politely why they don't play fare (here). Their responses are "Have you ever played starcraft without hacks? shits boring!", "Quit fucking crying" and "Heaven forbid he takes a (undeserved) loss". No mother fucker, heaven forbid you should have to sit down and learn a GAME to earn a win. Heaven forbid you have respect for yourself and your opponent, heaven forbid you apologize for being a dishonest cheat. Every time hackers get exposed (with proof) they start swearing and counter accusing like a degenerate spazz. After taking it lying down for 3+ years, I want to fuck with their shit now. I have no sympathy for them, lets get dirty .
TL its time to show them shit ain't sweet! We need to fight back. Post ideas!
I was thinking we could get Google to say their site is potentially harmful like those warez sites. They would loose a ton of visitors that way. Its small but its a start!
Also do any supporters live close to... Administrative Contact: Burke, Mike earwacks@cox.net BWHacks 2021 E. Soft Wind Dr Phoenix, Arizona 85024 United States 4802429319 WhoIs results
Fucking high-five, man. If I was a girl I would totally hit you :D
edit: Who the hell puts his address on a website -_-
On April 26 2008 09:17 Mortality wrote: To be honest, I think I'm sympathizing with TT1 right now.
I hate hackers. I wish they'd rot and burn. I've never even used maphacks for Diablo 2, and fucking everyone does. The thing is, TT1 seems to be making an honest effort to reform. Is it too little too late? Probably for most people.
TT1 may be like a criminal with an extensive record trying to reform. But if he's serious about it, he'll have to endure many months of hardship. Still, if people gave Testie a second chance (and yes, the young'en out there might not remember, but Testie was caught multiple different times and then later admitted to having hacked even after he was supposedly clean -- all the way as late as 02), then holding a double standard towards other hackers would be pitiful. I guess it just sucks for TT1 that he has neither the skill nor the charisma of Testie.
Meh, I might get banned for bringing up such old news, but I DON'T mean to use it to breed e-drama. The reason I bring it up is to remind people not to have double standards. It's fine if you say "I'll never forgive any hackers" and it's fine if you say "I'll forgive them if they prove themselves capable of reform." Really, I don't care either way, but it bothers me a bit that people have such double standards.
Do I think TT1 should have been allowed to finish this tourney? No. Why not? The rules said that you can't have hacked within so many months of the tourney. That was an ironclad rule and it was broken. It was right to ban him. I'm not so sure it's right for the community to get all bunched up in the panties when the community has such a history of forgiveness of hackers. That's all.
uh tt1 has claimed to have "reformed" more then once, and has continued to hack all of those times, so why should anyone listen to what he has to say?
On April 25 2008 06:12 Celial wrote: i havent read the whole topic, but i have 8 out of 52 "hack"-replays of sea.s2 who is nada. is this new?
two are from 1.11, 6 from 1.14. 6 (from both versions) are vs choi (i believe damnchoi is choi?), one vs artist and one vs sarang. i can uplod them to RS tonight if you want to.
i dont believe that a korean progamer with very high apm never klicks on an enemy building/unit
there's actually a topic long ago about nada hacking on battlenet.
i guess he uses us to get better. topic was a year ago.
On April 26 2008 13:25 N.H wrote: Are we justifying nada hacking? (if this is true?)
this was cleared up a long time ago, and besides you cant hack in official matches anyways. i dont kno the situation, but my best guess would be that he used mh in practice in order to learn the specific timing of builds
On April 21 2008 00:46 Liquid`NonY wrote: Getting caught hacking once deserves a life ban from all competitive events.
I soo agree with you, NonY. Yet we saw Spades at this mlg (getting stomped).
On April 21 2008 00:05 Liquid`Ret wrote: awesome
burn hackers!
On April 21 2008 00:21 iNcontroL wrote: Spades you fucking asshole. I don't even know you but it feels great to see someone get caught.
I agree with you all.
I didn't play brood war but is there still a method like the ones used in this thread? I know this is an old thread that I'm bumping (feel free to remove if inappropriate) but I don't think Blizzard is going to do anything anytime soon and it frustrates me to know that anybody I play is a google away from maphacking undetected.
On April 21 2008 00:21 iNcontroL wrote: Spades you fucking asshole. I don't even know you but it feels great to see someone get caught.
I agree with you all.
I didn't play brood war but is there still a method like the ones used in this thread? I know this is an old thread that I'm bumping (feel free to remove if inappropriate) but I don't think Blizzard is going to do anything anytime soon and it frustrates me to know that anybody I play is a google away from maphacking undetected.
1 Why do you necro a brood war thread from 4 years ago ? 2 Why do you say spades is a cheater when there is reasonable doubt ?
As a necro-side-note: I like the way Teamliquid dealt with this. They were calm, respectful, and presented the evidence. I believe if TL was to be allowed to have threads with accusations they should maintain a demeanor quite like the one in this thread. Notice the way the teams have already been contacted before the post.
EPT
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? 
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