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WARNING: Contains Spoilers for ASL 22 |
On August 02 2026 17:18 c3rberUs wrote:Ro24 groups. (I may have messed up somewhere though) Group A  Rush  Hm  Bisu Shuttle Group B Sharp Shinee action Shine Group C BeSt Paralyze Jaedong Speed Group D :z herO ggaemo Larva Mong Group E Soulkey PianO JyJ sSak Group F mini calm zerO EffOrt
Group F is such a feast for  Mini fans.
Surprised we didn't see a run from Rain in this season given the map pool. Too bad on Shuttle over Ruin.
Man that's a lot of zerg. Where's  Light?
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Light is already waiting in RO16
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no obvious groups of death thus far
F might be the closest tho
lets go effort and mini
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On August 03 2026 08:54 Sabu113 wrote:Surprised we didn't see a run from Rain in this season given the map pool.
Maps aren't good for Protoss if that's what you mean. Don't believe the propaganda. The guy who chose those maps for ASL said they are trying to help Protoss but they aren't (or at least it hasn't worked the way they intended)
As of now, out of 14 matchups there is only 1 good for Protoss, 4 neutral, 3 bad and 6 very bad. Larger sample sizes are needed for the new 4 maps and slight upticks can develop, but don't expect them to totally flip the other way.
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Yeah I could be just regurgitating artosis propaganda. He has 2-3 comments about the legend of the fall being fake and the maps being good for toss every big video.
Surprised PvT has been that dramatic. My priors are that PvZ has some huge design flaws that are just apparent at this point after years of play.
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Group B is super fun. Group F is a chub lifter.
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Japan11827 Posts
Subtle...
SOOP already knows protoss won't win with the defeat screen zealot looking at the finals
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IDK why I'm posting so much since I banned myself a few months ago LOL but anyway
I think it's better to put large images in spoiler tag. Otherwise it's difficult to load for shitty internet/phone and breaks the flow of the conversation. I only say it because I see you posting huge images from SOOP a lot. No necessary. Just link good. TY.
+ Show Spoiler +
also idk if it's you or someone else but people keep posting full korean graphics/brackets as if more than 1% of people here can read that lol. We have liquipedia for that, don't need all this other stuff but w/e just my opinion
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United States10569 Posts
On August 03 2026 15:27 Sabu113 wrote:
Yeah I could be just regurgitating artosis propaganda. He has 2-3 comments about the legend of the fall being fake and the maps being good for toss every big video.
Surprised PvT has been that dramatic. My priors are that PvZ has some huge design flaws that are just apparent at this point after years of play.
PvT design flaws are that Protoss doesn't have good ways to reliably bust Terran these days especially on the current map pool. Shittude and Shitgon especially made it far too easy for Terrans to reliably get set in a 4 base setup and high level TvP is still a nightmare for Protoss players trying to take reliable fights against rock solid builds from Terran.
Interesting that we're moving to loser pick in the bracket stage. And Ro24 will certainly be almost guaranteed have Attitude as the 2nd map given the other 2p maps are in the same map pool.
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On August 03 2026 14:36 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2026 08:54 Sabu113 wrote:Surprised we didn't see a run from Rain in this season given the map pool. Maps aren't good for Protoss if that's what you mean. Don't believe the propaganda. The guy who chose those maps for ASL said they are trying to help Protoss but they aren't (or at least it hasn't worked the way they intended) As of now, out of 14 matchups there is only 1 good for Protoss, 4 neutral, 3 bad and 6 very bad. Larger sample sizes are needed for the new 4 maps and slight upticks can develop, but don't expect them to totally flip the other way.
whats the current data on these maps for ZvX?
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On August 04 2026 02:13 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
whats the current data on these maps for ZvX?
Update with new color scale for all 6 matchups
(note that for some reason the people at eloboard decided to group the old Odyssey and Odyssey RE as one map, so to extract the win rates on Odyssey RE you have to do some queries)
Said earlier after I watched a few games on Colorless and looks like it's spot on now: this map heavily favors Zerg. Zerg has essentially only one choke to defend to secure all 4 gases. That's all they need.
I expect the win rates on Backrooms will look less absurd with more games. But I haven't really grasped why this map seems to be heaven for Terran. Maybe those ramps have a bigger impact than I thought.
Odyssey RE turns out to be not that good for Protoss (even Snow thought it was too good initially). The fastest mineral seems to do fuck all for them.
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On August 04 2026 07:38 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2026 02:13 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
whats the current data on these maps for ZvX? Update with new color scale for all 6 matchups (note that for some reason the people at eloboard decided to group the old Odyssey and Odyssey RE as one map, so to extract the win rates on Odyssey RE you have to do some queries) Said earlier after I watched a few games on Colorless and looks like it's spot on now: this map heavily favors Zerg. Zerg has essentially only one choke to defend to secure all 4 gases. That's all they need. I expect the win rates on Backrooms will look less absurd with more games. But I haven't really grasped why this map seems to be heaven for Terran. Maybe those ramps have a bigger impact than I thought. Odyssey RE turns out to be not that good for Protoss (even Snow thought it was too good initially). The fastest mineral seems to do fuck all for them.
from my perspective, the reason why backrooms is terrible ZvT is because terran gets a ling-tight wall in every spawn location, with only 11:00 having marines pop on the outside. it isn't as bad as polypoid 5:00, because at least on backrooms you have an egg to glide through so you don't auto-lose a drone when you scout terran and they complete the wall with their second depot to lock in your drone.
also: the natural gas is inwards instead of outwards, so you can't muta harass terran's 2nd gas to weaken their gas bank for vessals/tanks in more traditional maps like polypoid. not to mention the area beside your natural minerals gives terran room for literally 3 layers of turrets (compare that to polypoid/vermeer/fighting spirit)
the round-about thirds are quite bad if you are fighting mech or tech, since speedvults can easily run through and raid from the backdoor, with a very big ramp that you can't block... in fighting spirit/attitude style third-gas bases, at least you can block vulture raids with 1 hydra on each ramp
and thats with the current version, the first version of backrooms was about twice as worse for zerg, but i won't get into that since it's a lot better now
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On August 03 2026 23:41 Mrs Crabbleman wrote:
I think it's better to put large images in spoiler tag. Otherwise it's difficult to load for shitty internet/phone and breaks the flow of the conversation. I only say it because I see you posting huge images from SOOP a lot. No necessary. Just link good. TY.
I hear you, comrade.
I've been very selective about which graphics/posters to share, and will continue to be.
This poster presents finer details like the map pool voting/ban process, so I thought it'd be interesting for folks. Fun details that are not documented on LP.
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On August 04 2026 07:38 TMNT wrote:Update with new color scale for all 6 matchups
Thanks for sharing -- will be interesting to see how these change with a larger sample size. Looking at the Eloboard splits for these maps, those involving Protoss often have a much smaller data set.
On Backrooms, for example, PvZ only has ~50 games logged, compared to ~110 games for TvZ.
With so few Protoss progamers, I wonder if we're seeing skewed data...
For example,  Bisu took all of June and ~half of July off, only recently re-entering the fray. Will be interesting to see how he drives the PvZ numbers, and perhaps the tactics, on these maps in the next few months
Similarly, weaker players like Shuttle have been very active in Proleagues, so I'm guessing he's single-handedly driving down some of the Protoss numbers, inadvertently...
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6 out of 8 playoff spots will go to Protoss players, mark my words! The map pool is insanely protoss favoured this year. Yeeehaw!
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This is very useful. Thanks a lot for posting it!
Cheers 
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Shuttle LMAO 1/13 win rate at last 5 major proleague. Definitely not a measure.
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Netherlands5963 Posts
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By the way, First game matchups are 1v2, 3v4 as it stands on liquipedia?
Thanks for the info
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/71cJMuK.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Sujhv9P.jpeg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/eQw6RQY.png)
