ASL22 General Discussion - Page 9

On August 12 2026 01:21 TMNT wrote:
Hasnt changed much since last week it seems



The video in which JD and SK whined about Protoss-favored map pool has aged like milk.

On August 12 2026 01:46 FlaShFTW wrote:

I don't even get why they were complaining about that when Terrans still dominate statistically.

On August 12 2026 01:21 TMNT wrote:
Hasnt changed much since last week it seems



The video in which JD and SK whined about Protoss-favored map pool has aged like milk.

On August 12 2026 01:21 TMNT wrote:
Hasnt changed much since last week it seems



The video in which JD and SK whined about Protoss-favored map pool has aged like milk.

On August 12 2026 06:09 A.Alm wrote:
I've got my money on another zerg win

On August 13 2026 02:15 c3rberUs wrote:
I haven't seen the numbers but surely there is an outlier or two dragging the percentages up (Soma, Soulkey) and/or down (protoss seem to be dogwater regardless of the map pool).

On August 13 2026 09:16 TMNT wrote:

A good player obviously improves his race's win rates, and vice versa. But I think the so-called outliers usually don't change those numbers significantly - certainly not as much as people think.

Some examples on Attitude (the best map for Zerg and worst for Protoss, among the 3 old maps which have large number of games):



- Shuttle is probably accused of dampering his race's win rates the most, and his win rates usually look abysmal because the guy, despite not on major proleague level, plays there a lot more than he should. But he's only "able to" decrease the Protoss win rate on both matchups by less than 1% - because of his low volume of games.

- Soulkey is another low activity player, hence despite him having a ZvT win rate ~10% higher than the average of his race, is only able to raise the overall ZvT win rate by 0.7%. Also his ZvP win rate on Attitude apparently is not better than the average of Zerg.

- The only time a player raises his race's win rate by more than 1% in these examples is Soma in ZvT, but even so I wouldn't say going from 47.9 to 50.1% is that significant. This is because he has an absurd amount of ZvT games on this map (93) - which seems to be the result of some grudge matches or something with Rush (they played 43 games with each other, of which Soma won 67%). On the other hand, it's surprising that Soma actually drags the ZvP win rate down by 0.7%.

On August 14 2026 01:39 Sabu113 wrote:
What are people’s senses of how long it takes for players to fully suss out a new map? We’re still discovering the Meta?

Secondarily, why was there so much hype about the map pool being Protoss favored before by both pros, artosis and seemingly consensus here but now the raw numbers are a little wild. Shuttle seems vindicated.

which seems to be the result of some grudge matches or something with Rush (they played 43 games with each other, of which Soma won 67%)

On August 14 2026 02:57 TMNT wrote:

It's not like that in the Korean scene.

The hype about a Protoss map pool in the foreign community, if there was ever any, was largely influenced by the two jinjin videos, one of which Snow admitted Odyssey is a good P map, the other having JD and SK complaining about Jane Doe, Match Point and Odyssey.

First I feel like there's a lack of critical and comprehensive thinking from both the players in the videos and the viewers. Even if Odyssey were indeed heavily Protoss favored, so that's like 1 out of 7, not the majority of the pool. There are also several wrong things in that second video as well, which I will point out later.

Second, those opnions were formed when the first version of the map came out. Since then it's been nerfed as the Zergs wished, to the point now that it's become slightly disadvantageous to Protoss.

Third, Artosis knows fuck all about the Korean scene. He just regurgitates whatever jinjin feeds him. Dude had lived in Korea for 15 years but can't speak the language (he has to pay for translated guides). But more importantly, he has no interest in finding information directly from Korean websites and streams (hence his only source of information from KR is from jinjin). He had no idea about daily proleagues, SC universities, eloboard (or maybe he had but didn't bother to check) let alone fmkorea or ygosu. It's kind of insane how a leading figure of foreign BW community is that ignorant about Korean BW.

On August 14 2026 02:57 TMNT wrote:

It's not like that in the Korean scene.

The hype about a Protoss map pool in the foreign community, if there was ever any, was largely influenced by the two jinjin videos, one of which Snow admitted Odyssey is a good P map, the other having JD and SK complaining about Jane Doe, Match Point and Odyssey.

First I feel like there's a lack of critical and comprehensive thinking from both the players in the videos and the viewers. Even if Odyssey were indeed heavily Protoss favored, so that's like 1 out of 7, not the majority of the pool. There are also several wrong things in that second video as well, which I will point out later.

Second, those opnions were formed when the first version of the map came out. Since then it's been nerfed as the Zergs wished, to the point now that it's become slightly disadvantageous to Protoss.

Third, Artosis knows fuck all about the Korean scene. He just regurgitates whatever jinjin feeds him. Dude had lived in Korea for 15 years but can't speak the language (he has to pay for translated guides). But more importantly, he has no interest in finding information directly from Korean websites and streams (hence his only source of information from KR is from jinjin). He had no idea about daily proleagues, SC universities, eloboard (or maybe he had but didn't bother to check) let alone fmkorea or ygosu. It's kind of insane how a leading figure of foreign BW community is that ignorant about Korean BW.

On August 13 2026 19:37 c3rberUs wrote:

I shot my shot even though I know an outlier needs to have impossible winrates to really make a dent.