EPTAnd from the other side of the argument, where someone would say "if you are the better player you should beat the weaker one in a single game" to justify the use Bo1, well BW doesn't exactly work that way. And if that were the case then we might as well have Bo1 in finals as well.
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TMNT
3091 Posts
And from the other side of the argument, where someone would say "if you are the better player you should beat the weaker one in a single game" to justify the use Bo1, well BW doesn't exactly work that way. And if that were the case then we might as well have Bo1 in finals as well. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50592 Posts
On August 16 2024 23:38 Miragee wrote: This is an especially funny example as Flash got famously kicked out by Ssak and Classic in the Bo1 group stages of an MSL at the time he was at his peak skill. both became made men after that group. On August 16 2024 23:38 TMNT wrote: The idea of giving underdogs a better chance to qualify for Ro16 by having only Bo1 in Ro24 is just stupid. You are only deserving of a place in Ro16 if you can show you're good enough, not by fluking a win or cheesing. It's pointless to have those players in Ro16 just for "diversity", only for them to be picked first in group nomination (hah) and blasted by better players once Bo3 is used. And from the other side of the argument, where someone would say "if you are the better player you should beat the weaker one in a single game" to justify the use Bo1, well BW doesn't exactly work that way. And if that were the case then we might as well have Bo1 in finals as well. Bo1 Group Stage where you have an extra chance to get out is different from Bo1 finals. It sucks someone got cheesed, if they get cheesed twice by 2 different opponents, or even the same opponent twice if they meet in the final game then they deserved to have lost, doesn't mean the player is bad, it just wasn't their day. but there is randomness that I don't agree with, winners/loser/final map in Ro24 used to be announced in advance, they should bring that back. the less randomness with maps the players need to prepare for the better equipped they are to handle bullshit. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1044 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10241 Posts
On August 16 2024 23:38 TMNT wrote: The idea of giving underdogs a better chance to qualify for Ro16 by having only Bo1 in Ro24 is just stupid. You are only deserving of a place in Ro16 if you can show you're good enough, not by fluking a win or cheesing. It's pointless to have those players in Ro16 just for "diversity", only for them to be picked first in group nomination (hah) and blasted by better players once Bo3 is used. And from the other side of the argument, where someone would say "if you are the better player you should beat the weaker one in a single game" to justify the use Bo1, well BW doesn't exactly work that way. And if that were the case then we might as well have Bo1 in finals as well. I understand the mentality behind this, but then the argument would be that every serious should just be like a bo5 then to make sure only the best players advance. Cheese is still part of the game and while it is higher variance with Bo1, better players should be prepping for cheeses too. | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States713 Posts
If the skill difference between two players isn't big enough to confidently shut someone out in a Bo1, then players who cheese and win get to demonstrate with more authority that they are closer in skill to our heroes than some of us want to admit. | ||
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Postaljester_
33 Posts
Still hoping for a toss win so they can try and reverse the history of getting dunked on. Zerg will probably continue to suppress toss. | ||
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TMNT
3091 Posts
On August 17 2024 02:38 FlaShFTW wrote: I understand the mentality behind this, but then the argument would be that every serious should just be like a bo5 then to make sure only the best players advance. Cheese is still part of the game and while it is higher variance with Bo1, better players should be prepping for cheeses too. Which is exactly the format of the KSL group stage that I love (but KSL starts at Ro16 I know). Plus on each day there are only two matches and you know who your opponent is to prep. ASL used to have all-Bo1 format in Ro16 and they were able to switch to the current format. There's no reason they can't do the same for Ro24. And there's also the argument to give more game time to newcomers in Ro24 as well. Like if you make it to ASL for the first time, you would want to play more than 2 games and show what you've got, instead of crashing out in 30 minutes and go home and no one remembers who you are. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4227 Posts
On August 17 2024 03:45 Postaljester_ wrote: This map pool really kills a lot of the hype for me. Still hoping for a toss win so they can try and reverse the history of getting dunked on. Zerg will probably continue to suppress toss. Same, dude. Same. | ||
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cheesehuehue
Vatican City State90 Posts
Right now there are five Protoss in the top 10; four Terrans; and only one Zerg (Soulkey), as usual. Since May 1st, Other than Soulkey, only Hero has a win rate above 50% against the top 4 Protoss, and not even by much. So this narrative that Zerg is OP against protoss is plain BS skewed by Soulkey's recent performance. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Be2nxp4.jpeg) Edit: To keep things even, we could compare only the top 4 Zergs vs the top 4 Protoss, in which case 2 out of 4 Zergs would have a win rate above 50%. | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States713 Posts
On August 17 2024 05:13 cheesehuehue wrote: People keep talking about zerg being OP against Protoss, when the truth is that the only Zerg that is performing at the top level at all (not only against P) is Soulkey. Hero, Action, Queen and JD have been floating in the 11-20 ranks of eloboard for the most part of the last four months, with the exception of very short peaks at top 3 by Hero, JD and Action. Queen has barely managed to enter the top10, and has often dropped to rank 20-25. Right now there are five Protoss in the top 10; four Terrans; and only one Zerg (Soulkey), as usual. Since May 1st, Other than Soulkey, only Hero has a win rate above 50% against the top 4 Protoss, and not even by much. So this narrative that Zerg is OP against protoss is plain BS skewed by Soulkey's recent performance. Edit: To keep things even, we could compare only the top 4 Zergs vs the top 4 Protoss, in which case 2 out of 4 Zergs would have a win rate above 50%. Soulkey 71% against Mini. Mini does the worst against him out of all the top 4 Protoss. That would mean he has the worst approach to beating Soulkey out of those top Protoss. And who has the best? Oh look, it's Bisu. I'll just smugly stop here. | ||
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cheesehuehue
Vatican City State90 Posts
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TMNT
3091 Posts
On August 17 2024 05:51 ThunderJunk wrote: Soulkey 71% against Mini. Mini does the worst against him out of all the top 4 Protoss. That would mean he has the worst approach to beating Soulkey out of those top Protoss. And who has the best? Oh look, it's Bisu. I'll just smugly stop here. I mean, it means Mini is a worse PvZ player than Bisu (always has been). In fact, in the past 1-2 years at least, he's been worse at PvZ than Bisu and Snow and probably just on par with Best. His PvZ series in ASLs is another story though. On the other hand, Bisu, the best PvZ player of all time, and still top 3 PvZ in modern time, maintaining his form should come as no surprise. Can't base on win rate to say anything about their approach. Take Best for example. He's probably a macro player. Doesn't get better than Bisu? | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
- last day of groups Oct 1 - quarter 1 October 7 - quater 2 October 8 - quarter 3 October 14 - quarter 4 October 15 - semi 1 October 21 - semi 2 October 22 - finals November 2 ? | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4227 Posts
On August 17 2024 11:31 Alzadar wrote: Trying to understand the schedule here (Liquipedia not updated yet), is it: - last day of groups Oct 1 - quarter 1 October 7 - quater 2 October 8 - quarter 3 October 14 - quarter 4 October 15 - semi 1 October 21 - semi 2 October 22 - finals November 2 ? I don't think we are sure about that yet --> https://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1/post/133445065?page=1 https://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1 --> ASL/SSL blog | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1044 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1044 Posts
The chinese community has been organizing their own version of ultimate battle plus sponsor matches with exclusively korean top players. These matches only get added/recorded on ELOBOARD about half the time. Soulkey's record is way better than what ELOBOARD shows. When he plays in the chinese ultimate battle he absolutely destroys everyone. He has lost like 3 out of 20(idk the exact number but he's been on quite often) chinese ultimate battles he's played. Light and snow have also been dominating, but not quite as dominant. Now I don't know why these chinese sponsored events don't get added half the time, because the rankings and the elos would be different. They organize these daily, sometimes twice or three times on a single day. | ||
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TMNT
3091 Posts
On August 17 2024 20:35 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Also important to note for the online scores from ELOBOARD. The chinese community has been organizing their own version of ultimate battle plus sponsor matches with exclusively korean top players. These matches only get added/recorded on ELOBOARD about half the time. Soulkey's record is way better than what ELOBOARD shows. When he plays in the chinese ultimate battle he absolutely destroys everyone. He has lost like 3 out of 20 chinese ultimate battles he's played. Light and snow have also been dominating, but not quite as dominant. Now I don't know why these chinese sponsored events don't get added half the time, because the rankings and the elos would be different. They organize these daily, sometimes twice or three times on a single day. Yeah that's what I've noticed recently. Maybe not half the time but definitely some games are missing. Weird that sometimes you even have 7 games of the 9 recorded but the remaining 2 nowhere to be seen (maybe the person who recorded it went to bed early lol). I know this has been always the case for eloboard, as each game has to be manually recorded by users like us so there were missing games before. Maybe now the number of games has become too big due to the Chinese UB, so it's even more difficult for them to keep track of. In addition there were some UBs where one of the two players didn't even stream lol. At least the record for proleagues remains good though. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1044 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:27 TMNT wrote: Yeah that's what I've noticed recently. Maybe not half the time but definitely some games are missing. Weird that sometimes you even have 7 games of the 9 recorded but the remaining 2 nowhere to be seen (maybe the person who recorded it went to bed early lol). I know this has been always the case for eloboard, as each game has to be manually recorded by users like us so there were missing games before. Maybe now the number of games has become too big due to the Chinese UB, so it's even more difficult for them to keep track of. In addition there were some UBs where one of the two players didn't even stream lol. At least the record for proleagues remains good though. They switched some of the ultimimate battles to best of 7s, hence why sometimes its less games. they also do bo5s now. for the first few months it was exclusively 9 games. These chinese sponsored matches have convinced me Soulkey is in maybe an unbeatable final form. It will take Snow or Light at their utmost best to take him down. I give everyone else low odds.... except maybe JyJ cuz he a stone cold killer on stage. | ||
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TMNT
3091 Posts
Btw, if any mod reads this, can we have StarCastTV stream in the side bar as well. They are hosting so many events these days including the Chinese spons and SCSL: https://bj.afreecatv.com/cruiser0929 | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On August 17 2024 16:31 M3t4PhYzX wrote: I don't think we are sure about that yet --> https://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1/post/133445065?page=1 https://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1 --> ASL/SSL blog I'm looking here: https://esports.afreecatv.com/schedule/STARLEAGUE/2024-11-01/list https://esports.afreecatv.com/schedule/STARLEAGUE/2024-12-01/list The site is kinda buggy and you have to click the month ahead to get the one you want, for November need to modify URL to pick December. | ||
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