• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:11
CEST 20:11
KST 03:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou18Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four2BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET7Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)81
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou The New Patch Killed Mech! 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle RSL Season 3 Qualifier Links and Dates $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
SnOw's Awful Building Placements vs barracks Is there anyway to get a private coach? BW General Discussion BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament
Strategy
Roaring Currents ASL final Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training [I] Funny Protoss Builds/Strategies
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Chess Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Sabrina was soooo lame on S…
Peanutsc
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1926 users

The uncertainty behind FlaSh's Return; In-depth - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
knotfun
Profile Joined July 2019
41 Posts
March 20 2023 18:39 GMT
#41
On March 16 2023 11:08 Zealgoon wrote:
Who the hell would want to have anything to do with a company called Global Order?

Interesting read, thanks. Still hope Flash comes back eventually, never was a big fan of him even before the scandal but the competition isn't the same without him.


Actually, the competition is more interesting without him.
Anyway all the mentioned scammers are scumbags.
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina243 Posts
March 21 2023 01:30 GMT
#42
On March 16 2023 15:10 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2023 14:48 Waxangel wrote:
The most mind-blowing thing about Korean media consumption compared to the USA is how mid-size scandals can actually inflict severe and long-lasting damage to viewership. Stuff that's a minor PR speedbump in the states could destroy someone's career in Korea if it picked up momentum.


outrage optimized.



It's really sad to see how this toxic culture is causing so much damage, I think there's a lot of envy and insecurity going on around the world and it makes sense given the way we are running our society.

For me I at least, his reputation hasn't change one bit. He is still the best gamer I have ever seen play, a testament of a unique mind. Why would I care about his personal affairs when the devil is in the detail wich I certainly don't know because I dont know him on that level?
And I don't need to, only by watching play BW I know with 100% certainty that he is an amazing human beeing,a one in a millon talent.

Flash you would have to learn to give a f$&% what some/most people think. Here in Argentina for years we had many many idiots who "loved" soccer but hated Messi with passion for some reason, this is how toxic we are. But ''the people that love football know Messi is the best'' right? So hurry up and come back, we are wating to see The Best
Standard Queens
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-03-21 02:02:38
March 21 2023 02:01 GMT
#43
Thanks for the in-depth explanation jinjin!

I've spent a lot of time in gaming communities with scandals (good job gamers) and my general feeling is that if no one in the community was actually directly hurt, it should be fine to let them return, but just be more wary of them in the future.

And honestly with crypto... yeah it's very scummy to promote a pump and dump, but it's the viewer's responsibility if they invest their own money into something shady. Maybe viewers will take this as a warning and start using their brains a bit more before listening to everything a streamer says.

Meanwhile, Flash's reputation will take a very deserved hit, so hopefully he feels some consequences for his actions.

I hope he comes back after properly reflecting and issuing a better apology (take responsibility and don't blame your mom...), and doesn't repeat this kind of mistake again.

EDIT: I read jinjin's later post about "undisclosed paid advertising" - also agree that's scummy, especially in the context of a crypto product, and should not be allowed
Writer
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8745 Posts
March 21 2023 02:15 GMT
#44
where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"?
iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1453 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-03-21 03:55:32
March 21 2023 03:11 GMT
#45
On March 21 2023 11:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:
where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"?
iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.


I mean, leading up to the incident, Suit came out of nowhere and was very prominent on a lot of popular streamers showing off his wealth and establishing himself as wealthy trustworthy figure. Then the scandal exploded when there was streamers advertising the TO coin application didn't it?

What I meant was undisclosed paid advertising was it was similar to the YouTube undisclosed advertising incident, but here, we have advertising for app and crypto coin itself but they didn't disclose their investment/stakes in it. (which is what all the fuss was about)

think this was the beginning of trouble point


anways, the outrage culture in first place is what's making it hard for FlaSh to comeback since the ball already rolled when he blotched his 1st apology and it grew to scale beyond what he could have managed after
CHEONSOYUN
Profile Joined August 2017
543 Posts
March 21 2023 06:10 GMT
#46
too many people only care about seeing him play.

newsflash: being good at starcraft is cool but grifting people when you’re already rich, well off and have a comfortable income is not cool.
JAEDONG...!!! EFFORT IS ANGRY. ZERG...?!
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
March 21 2023 09:00 GMT
#47
I think Flash fully deserves another chance at streaming. He didn't do anything so wrong that redemption can't be an option. Knetizens need to calm their tits.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8745 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-03-21 11:02:35
March 21 2023 10:59 GMT
#48
On March 21 2023 12:11 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2023 11:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:
where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"?
iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.


I mean, leading up to the incident, Suit came out of nowhere and was very prominent on a lot of popular streamers showing off his wealth and establishing himself as wealthy trustworthy figure. Then the scandal exploded when there was streamers advertising the TO coin application didn't it?

What I meant was undisclosed paid advertising was it was similar to the YouTube undisclosed advertising incident, but here, we have advertising for app and crypto coin itself but they didn't disclose their investment/stakes in it. (which is what all the fuss was about)

think this was the beginning of trouble point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlthi8pC3ds

anways, the outrage culture in first place is what's making it hard for FlaSh to comeback since the ball already rolled when he blotched his 1st apology and it grew to scale beyond what he could have managed after

i touched on how the incident started in this post https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/574711-flashs-crypto-scandal?page=2#39 (an earlier post than the one i linked before) from the previous thread. the guy in the video is kote and hes a streamer that has pretty much nothing to do with starcraft.

the starcraft streamers got pulled into this when a "journalist" got hands on a shareholder record and saw their names on the list as investors. with suit already having had his name dragged through the mud, people like flash/britney/bisu/sea etc. were crucified for their mere association and presumed participation of pump and dump.
thats completely different from saying they explicitly promoted the coin, which never happened.
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2279 Posts
March 21 2023 13:39 GMT
#49
Eventually he will return, they all return, we all return...
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1453 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-03-23 10:27:21
March 21 2023 21:11 GMT
#50
On March 21 2023 19:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2023 12:11 jinjin5000 wrote:
On March 21 2023 11:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:
where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"?
iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.


I mean, leading up to the incident, Suit came out of nowhere and was very prominent on a lot of popular streamers showing off his wealth and establishing himself as wealthy trustworthy figure. Then the scandal exploded when there was streamers advertising the TO coin application didn't it?

What I meant was undisclosed paid advertising was it was similar to the YouTube undisclosed advertising incident, but here, we have advertising for app and crypto coin itself but they didn't disclose their investment/stakes in it. (which is what all the fuss was about)

think this was the beginning of trouble point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlthi8pC3ds

anways, the outrage culture in first place is what's making it hard for FlaSh to comeback since the ball already rolled when he blotched his 1st apology and it grew to scale beyond what he could have managed after

i touched on how the incident started in this post https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/574711-flashs-crypto-scandal?page=2#39 (an earlier post than the one i linked before) from the previous thread. the guy in the video is kote and hes a streamer that has pretty much nothing to do with starcraft.

the starcraft streamers got pulled into this when a "journalist" got hands on a shareholder record and saw their names on the list as investors. with suit already having had his name dragged through the mud, people like flash/britney/bisu/sea etc. were crucified for their mere association and presumed participation of pump and dump.
thats completely different from saying they explicitly promoted the coin, which never happened.


I know but that ad was when it exploded
Flash was most involved out of sc guys for sure and suit definitely tried to deny streamers involvement. It was just allround pr disaster.

They promoted the company behind coin and flash was filming a lot of ad for crypto firms as well during that time. They havent moved on to promoting TO coin itself but the structure was set with him promoting global order and all.
Yea nothing happened after due to scandal hard stopping but the parts to cogs were there so i can understand the outrage. I think people are right to be upset on that part since there was clear layered plan laid out for them to clearly see. People dont like it when people they looked up to as "honest & professional" betray that trust (altho i think constant circlejerking is bit much)

it's quite cynical to jump to conclusion that flash was intending to mislead or other investors were, but I don't think it's such a reach for people to react negatively. The outrage culture that goes around even to this day, yes, but I think it's reasonable for people to be upset over this

Also flash also mishandled his announcement super badly and that was disasterous too. You dont see guemchi getting that much flack anymore because he handled his apology swiftly and to the point.
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
March 23 2023 17:21 GMT
#51
At a base crypto seems like a scam, so I don't see what flash did as much worse than anyone else. And it happened at a time where everyone was pushing various levels of scam cryptocurrency, be it influencers or average people who thought they were investors.

Remember that time Elon Musk tweeted about Dogecoin and the price shot up despite Dogecoin being obvious satire about the value of crypto...

Also, I want to see FlaSh play in ASL again.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
LUCKY_NOOB
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Bulgaria1496 Posts
March 26 2023 15:44 GMT
#52
BW without Flash is not the same.. We need a villain to overcome!

Lessons learned:

1) Don't trust Suit, Suits or any1 wearing 1 or multiple.

2) Don't trust ppl without suits either...

3) Naked ppl are sus as well
ko-fi.com/luckynoob
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9030 Posts
March 26 2023 17:30 GMT
#53
How many people lost money on this coin and how much?
Yaqoob
Profile Blog Joined March 2005
Canada3337 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-05 23:47:19
April 05 2023 23:46 GMT
#54
The below video is an excellent video that sums up this Crypto controversy



김택용 Fighting!
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
April 06 2023 00:49 GMT
#55
On March 24 2023 02:21 Eywa- wrote:
At a base crypto seems like a scam, so I don't see what flash did as much worse than anyone else. And it happened at a time where everyone was pushing various levels of scam cryptocurrency, be it influencers or average people who thought they were investors.

Remember that time Elon Musk tweeted about Dogecoin and the price shot up despite Dogecoin being obvious satire about the value of crypto...

Also, I want to see FlaSh play in ASL again.

I saw something about how there is a potential lawsuit related to him inflating Dogecoin like that, but who knows
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1453 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-06 06:46:20
April 06 2023 02:00 GMT
#56
On April 06 2023 08:46 Yaqoob wrote:
The below video is an excellent video that sums up this Crypto controversy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLFey-wQZhg



I wrote the script yea, and removed/cleaned some of the stuff that may not have been accurate from the posts and all since all the stuff was wrapped in outrage even to this day.

if you want more details on what happened afterwards, you can read evilfatsh1t's posts after on the thread

https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/574711-flashs-crypto-scandal?page=11#213
machinus
Profile Joined January 2010
United States291 Posts
April 06 2023 02:14 GMT
#57
Flash Fighting~~~~

Come back Young-Ho!
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8442 Posts
April 06 2023 05:00 GMT
#58
But why do people belive that starcraft streamers and AMAZING players are also good at finance ? I don't get it.

I only listen to a player if he tells something about starcraft and thats it !

Like fighters who stop competing and start talking about religion , money , politics etc. Mate, how is your opinion more entitled than anyone else ?

I love Jaedong with all my heart, but I will not buy a coin if he says so.

I will only buy something if it helps him directly and he admits. Then I'll do it in an instant, no problem ; i don't want anything in return nor do i want to earn some money later.

Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
2_2
Profile Joined June 2022
Poland30 Posts
April 06 2023 05:34 GMT
#59
Yeah, this is one of those things, when a celebrity, actor or a streamer in this case promotes something like this I assume one of 3 scenarios:
1. They're getting paid to advertise and have no idea about the actual "product" (most likely)
2. They're getting scammed themselves
3. They're in on the scam
Maybe some sort of combination of the three.

But unfortunately many people don't think like that and using someone recognizable with an established audience works, it works very well. Whatever the details really are, Flash was at least irresponsible and handled the fallout of the the situation badly. I hope he comes back, but I'd understand if he doesn't.
Li_Xin
Profile Joined January 2018
51 Posts
April 06 2023 16:24 GMT
#60
On April 06 2023 14:00 prosatan wrote:
But why do people belive that starcraft streamers and AMAZING players are also good at finance ? I don't get it.

I only listen to a player if he tells something about starcraft and thats it !

Like fighters who stop competing and start talking about religion , money , politics etc. Mate, how is your opinion more entitled than anyone else ?

I love Jaedong with all my heart, but I will not buy a coin if he says so.

I will only buy something if it helps him directly and he admits. Then I'll do it in an instant, no problem ; i don't want anything in return nor do i want to earn some money later.



Did you not read what he wrote?

Flash has a reputation for making an absolute fortune from crypto investing in the past.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 637
UpATreeSC 109
BRAT_OK 61
MindelVK 39
Railgan 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1323
Bisu 642
Mini 542
GuemChi 492
EffOrt 361
BeSt 177
zelot 123
Soulkey 100
Dewaltoss 89
PianO 60
[ Show more ]
Backho 55
Mind 46
Mong 33
Yoon 28
Free 24
Sexy 18
HiyA 11
scan(afreeca) 10
Dota 2
qojqva3970
Fuzer 222
Counter-Strike
fl0m2559
ScreaM966
FunKaTv 34
Super Smash Bros
Chillindude30
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu226
Other Games
FrodaN1020
Beastyqt686
ceh9362
Skadoodle293
KnowMe134
Mew2King71
Trikslyr54
QueenE41
ViBE6
Grubby0
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL251
Other Games
BasetradeTV42
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV471
Other Games
• imaqtpie851
• Shiphtur220
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
16h 49m
Online Event
21h 49m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 15h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 16h
OSC
1d 20h
SKillous vs goblin
Spirit vs GgMaChine
ByuN vs MaxPax
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.