• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:56
CEST 06:56
KST 13:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation12$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 575 users

Color/Race Distribution of Random in Brood War

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
rossmerickson
Profile Joined February 2018
6 Posts
November 06 2020 11:20 GMT
#1
So I heard Tasteless and Artosis agree that different colors seemed to get certain races a different amount of the time. The obvious initial reaction to that is to say that it's some kind of cognitive bias, but I wanted to check anyways.

The first thing I did was boot up Brood War and start a game on an 8 player map. I set all 8 players to random, revealed the map, and wrote down what race corresponded to each color (Red, Blue, Cyan, Purple, Orange, Brown, White, and Yellow). I did this 96 times. Around 25 times in, I started to notice that every single game, the race distributions would be 3, 3, and 2; so there was allowed to be a maximum of 3 of any race and a minimum of 2. Naturally, this will make the results significantly less random (I assume). However, here are my results:

[image loading]


I had to learn a lot about statistics to figure this out. Anyways, the chi-squared for Blue (the color Flash consistently picked in the Ro4) gave a 96% chance that it is not a 1/3-each distribution of races, and that Protoss is significantly more likely than the other two races. White, Orange, and Red were also possible hits, but it's unsure, and the others seem to be pretty straightforward.

If I was to re-do the experiment, I would first try to find out the rules for the cap of how many races there have to be in any given scenario, find out the maximum number of players I can have to ensure randomness, and do it again. The way I did this, it's possible that some other factors were playing into certain colors being skewed, like the order that the colors pick their race or something.

What do you guys think? Is this something, or nothing?
lurkgoon
Profile Joined November 2020
11 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-06 12:59:05
November 06 2020 12:51 GMT
#2
It's interesting that blue shows a very high likelihood of bias. Nice find.

In 8 player games where all players go random, the race distribution will indeed always be 3-3-2.

Also, when both players go random in 1v1, it's very unlikely to be a mirror match. I'm a bit hazy on the details but I think it's a 1/24 chance, and the actual formula to get to that is obscure and bizarre. It was posted on here sometime back with various scenarios and I believe the specific race a player is also affects the distribution of the 'other two' (non-mirror) races of the random player as well.

For improvements on your testing, I'd recommend trying to reproduce what happens in Flash random games as closely as possible - meaning 1v1 game, with the exact game mode, number, race etc. of players and observers. It's possible/likely that some of these variables are intertwined, so higher likelihood of protoss in an 8 player game may not necessarily hold for games with less players.

I personally think Flash is onto something here and he's not just picking blue because he likes the color.
lurkgoon
Profile Joined November 2020
11 Posts
November 06 2020 13:12 GMT
#3
tec27 posted an awesome explanation of how random works in this game depending on selections, though no mention of color in there. I'm not even sure if it was something he was looking for (?) or it is part of a different section of code. Who knows.

Post #18 in this thread: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/413197-few-mirrors-when-both-players-random
rossmerickson
Profile Joined February 2018
6 Posts
November 06 2020 14:17 GMT
#4
On November 06 2020 21:51 lurkgoon wrote:
It's interesting that blue shows a very high likelihood of bias. Nice find.

In 8 player games where all players go random, the race distribution will indeed always be 3-3-2.

Also, when both players go random in 1v1, it's very unlikely to be a mirror match. I'm a bit hazy on the details but I think it's a 1/24 chance, and the actual formula to get to that is obscure and bizarre. It was posted on here sometime back with various scenarios and I believe the specific race a player is also affects the distribution of the 'other two' (non-mirror) races of the random player as well.

For improvements on your testing, I'd recommend trying to reproduce what happens in Flash random games as closely as possible - meaning 1v1 game, with the exact game mode, number, race etc. of players and observers. It's possible/likely that some of these variables are intertwined, so higher likelihood of protoss in an 8 player game may not necessarily hold for games with less players.

I personally think Flash is onto something here and he's not just picking blue because he likes the color.


Eesh, I hope observers wouldn't be involved. That would be a huge pain lol.

On November 06 2020 22:12 lurkgoon wrote:
tec27 posted an awesome explanation of how random works in this game depending on selections, though no mention of color in there. I'm not even sure if it was something he was looking for (?) or it is part of a different section of code. Who knows.

Post #18 in this thread: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/413197-few-mirrors-when-both-players-random


Thanks, that's really helpful actually.
LML
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Germany1764 Posts
November 06 2020 14:20 GMT
#5
On November 06 2020 22:12 lurkgoon wrote:
tec27 posted an awesome explanation of how random works in this game depending on selections, though no mention of color in there. I'm not even sure if it was something he was looking for (?) or it is part of a different section of code. Who knows.

Post #18 in this thread: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/413197-few-mirrors-when-both-players-random


You can directly link to posts, btw:
https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/413197-few-mirrors-when-both-players-random#18
Just click on the date/time in the header of the post and it will adjust the URL in your browser with a link to the post.
LML
rossmerickson
Profile Joined February 2018
6 Posts
November 06 2020 14:30 GMT
#6
So I'm gonna retry this, 1v1, gonna try out some random colors. Obviously I'll start with Blue and we'll go from there.

Looking back, I'm not even sure the first experiment was even any good at all. It just auto-loaded the 8 colors I listed, but that's clearly different from the 20 choices that you get if you start up a LAN game. I wonder if they're not even related, like in the same section of the programming.

I guess we'll see what happens. I'll try to update in the next day or two.
Optimate
Profile Joined August 2020
247 Posts
November 06 2020 14:36 GMT
#7
Ross something to take into consideration is certain colors not being selectable on certain types of maps. Like orange on a desert or white on a snow map or green on a grass map. I don’t know how that works but I think you aren’t supposed to be allowed to pick the color?
rossmerickson
Profile Joined February 2018
6 Posts
November 06 2020 15:24 GMT
#8
Alright, so I tried exactly as they did it:

RvZ
Random chooses the color Blue, Zerg chooses the color Random
Top vs Bottom, which is the game mode they chose
50 games on Fighting Spirit
I got:

13 games of Terran
22 games of Zerg
15 games of Protoss

According to a Chi-squared distribution with 2 degrees of freedom, that has a 60% likelihood of happening with random chance.

My brain is absolutely shot. I have not much to think about this anymore, because quite frankly I can't think anymore.

I'm glad I did this, and I had fun doing it, but I would not recommend anybody else do it, unless you are as autistic as I am.
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2497 Posts
November 06 2020 15:43 GMT
#9
such a random thread
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4182 Posts
November 06 2020 16:21 GMT
#10
On November 07 2020 00:43 pebble444 wrote:
such a random thread

*ZING*
odi profanum vulgus et arceo
Abjurer
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Sweden208 Posts
November 06 2020 17:25 GMT
#11
I would suspect that one's color does not impact the randomization of race. If it did then Tec_27 would find mentions of some "selected color" variable when looking through the code in RandomizeRaces() and
GetRandomRace(...).

Unless this was added later in remastered, the plot thickens..
bw<3 cj<3
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-06 18:23:32
November 06 2020 18:23 GMT
#12
great work from a crazy guy. I respect your commitment
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Brainojack
Profile Joined March 2018
Canada195 Posts
November 07 2020 13:50 GMT
#13
He was sitting in the blue chair for the match I think he was picking blue to match for the broadcast
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Masters #4 - Day 1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 205
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 625
Noble 121
Bale 21
Dota 2
monkeys_forever745
NeuroSwarm68
ODPixel12
League of Legends
JimRising 994
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K558
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor89
Other Games
summit1g11077
shahzam675
hungrybox415
ViBE148
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick41601
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH330
• Hupsaiya 94
• Light_VIP 56
• practicex 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt318
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
5h 4m
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
8h 4m
Replay Cast
19h 4m
RSL Revival
1d 5h
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 11h
OSC
1d 15h
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.