I was just wondering what your all-time top 10 players for each races would look like based on your personal criteria.
I'm especially interested to hear from very old school fans from way back who'd seen pro players like YellOw in their prime who can shed some light to newer fans on how great of a player he was.
My criteria weighed in Starleague playoff appearances, individual peaks, career longevity, and their significance as a player (ex. Boxer was the face of, not only BW, but e-sports in general in Korea for a very long time).
10 players for each race is a lot to ask so I will just make a list of players I did enjoy watching the most regardless their achievement, skill or whatever.
3. Effort, a beast, but I rate him lesser than July.
4. Yellow, oh yellow, if only you could be #2 on this list.
5. Savior, only rating him #5 because you know what he did. Boo.
6. ZerO, consistent during the golden years, beast nowadays.
7. GoRush, I'd love to rate him higher but I just can't, I loved him back in the day though.
8. Chojja, mr consistency, mr ultralisk. A beast, wish he stuck around for a bit longer though.
9. H.O.T-Forever, the guy who I looked up to when I started playing, surprised nobody put him on his list but I might be a little bit biased.
10. Shark, one of my MBCboys and the inventor of muta micro, very underrated imo but def in my top 10!
TERRAN 1. FlaSh, probably don't need to explain this one, do I?
2. NaDa, the genius, I also respect his careers longevity.
3. Boxer, close between him and NaDa imo.
4. iloveoov, the old man with the builds, I rate him above Fantasy cause I think he perfected more stuff and had more impact on Terran as a whole.
5. Fantasy, I think this is the right spot for him, best of the non-bonjwas.
6. Xellos, might be the old guy in me talking but he was a beast for sure.
7. Light, the 2nd best modern terran, I think he will win stuff this and next year. Sadly he rose to the top a bit too late.
8. Goodfriend, oldschool beast, very underrated imo, sadly never won a starleague but finished very consistently.
9. Mind, sadly never became as good as people hyped him up to be, but still a beast at his prime.
10. Sea, not the brightest star but in my mind definitely belongs in the top 10 of terrans.
PROTOSS 1. Bisu, nuff said.
2. Stork, I don't think I need to explain this either.
3. JangBi, wish he didn't quit, a beast, we need a toss like him today.
4. Pusan, my true love. My favourite Neo king. I love everything about his play, but the biggest thing for me is his consistency and the longevity of his career. He was never a top player but he was consistent for his team in Proleague. He plays a style that I love, abuse the map. Capable of taking games off of the big names with well planned out builds, but never being the top star or center of attention. One of the original macro tosses and just a great player. Marry me.
5. Kingdom, bring me some tea boys, the micro god. Very underrated. I remember watching Kingdom vods years later and being astonished, better than most modern tosses in my book.
6. Anytime, one of the Neo kings. A beast at his peak. I tried stealing so many builds from him but I was too noob.
7. Nal_rA, I had a hard time evaluating Nal_rA but I couldn't place him higher nor lower than this, so here is. The dreamer, a legend.
8. Reach, manlots, so handsome, so gosu. I'd marry him in a heartbeat.
9. GARIMTO, the real OG.
10. Free, the 4th best dragon at his peak imo, the missing 2 would be #11 and #12.
Terran's top 5 I think are fairly undisputable being FlaSh, NaDa, Boxer, oov, and Fantasy. Ordering is debatable between oov and Boxer. 6-10 would probably be something like Iris, Xellos, Goodfriend, Midas, Casy/Forgg. Sea is great for Proleague, but his awful individual league results are a stain on his legacy.
Zerg's top 6 will be Jaedong, savior, July, Effort, Yellow, Chojja Followed by GGplay, GoRush, Calm, Hot-Forever. Calm's ACE rating in proleague is surprisingly good.
Protoss top 4 should be undisputed, Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, NalRa. 5-10 might be Garimto, Reach, Anytime, Kingdom, Pusan, Grrr/Kal. Not sure how to judge Grr's OSL win tbh.
On September 29 2020 08:27 FlaShFTW wrote: Imo, not gonna count the post-Kespa era.
Terran's top 5 I think are fairly undisputable being FlaSh, NaDa, Boxer, oov, and Fantasy. Ordering is debatable between oov and Boxer. 6-10 would probably be something like Iris, Xellos, Goodfriend, Midas, Casy/Forgg. Sea is great for Proleague, but his awful individual league results are a stain on his legacy.
Zerg's top 6 will be Jaedong, savior, July, Effort, Yellow, Chojja Followed by GGplay, GoRush, Calm, Hot-Forever. Calm's ACE rating in proleague is surprisingly good.
Protoss top 4 should be undisputed, Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, NalRa. 5-10 might be Garimto, Reach, Anytime, Kingdom, Pusan, Grrr/Kal. Not sure how to judge Grr's OSL win tbh.
The reason why I gave more weight to Grrr's OSL run is because he was one of the first Royal Roaders as well as the only foreigner to have won a Starleague. You could downplay his Starleague win by saying that it was during the infancy of BW where players were much "worse".
I think in terms of achievements, the top 10 for each race is generally pretty clear. i think in terms of post-2007 peak skill level (I chose this period because I consider it personally to be the period when the meta looked fairly modern) though I can do a top 10 list just to add some variety to the thread while still being somewhat pertinent. I want to stress my list is not ranking by talent. I think in terms of raw talent, people like Nada or July could be in top 10, for example.
Top 10 in terms of peak skill level: 1. Flash 2. Jaedong 3. Bisu 4. Fantasy 5. Stork 6. Jangbi 7. Last 8. Effort 9. Rain 10. Queen
On September 29 2020 05:17 EndingLife wrote: No love for V-Gundam or IntoTheRain?
V-Gundam was a name I completely forgot, it is true that his endless 2 fact push vs protoss was very entertaining to watch and deserves a spot in top 10 terran just for that.
Used number of individual titles as main criteria, prominence of the title and how advanced was BW at the time as tiebreakers. I think what is most important is how the player compared, in terms of number of titles, to his contemporaries, i.e. to those who had similar fundamental conditions (training time with good partners, knowledge of build orders, motivation etc.). If this generates a tie, then prominence of titles should be checked and, if a tie is reached again, how complex was the meta at the time of titles, which I measure through the age of the game itself.
I can't complain about the Terran and Zerg picks in the OP but I feel like somebody being squeezed out of the Protoss top 10 to make room for Rain is necessary. What an absolute beast.
On October 01 2020 02:55 dUTtrOACh wrote: I can't complain about the Terran and Zerg picks in the OP but I feel like somebody being squeezed out of the Protoss top 10 to make room for Rain is necessary. What an absolute beast.
I didn't put much value/weight on the post-KeSPA era in my rankings. I just think that the absence of team houses and the practicing environments they established were extremely important in bringing up the full potential of players with respect to their eras. If I'm not mistaken, in the early 2000s up until BW went ASL, team houses were being utilized. Now it seems like a player's practice is hindered by their family life, streaming duties, etc. This goes especially for former pros who are just older and have families they need to tend to.
With that being said, I think if Rain had prospered a year earlier in the KeSPA era, he probably would've been an OSL/MSL champion. What I'll also say about Rain is that he's one of the few protoss players, alongside Stats and Classic, who were great in both SC2 and BW.
I shed some tears after rereading BoxeRs "Crazy As Me" after so many years. There can't be someone above The Emperor, HE/HIM. Lim Yo Hwan 4ever hwaiting.
And by the way why the fuck anyone would change that oldschool BoxeR picture on BW liqupedia to SC2 one? C'mon, if you guys don't have anything to add don't ruin it!!!
On October 02 2020 05:14 outscar wrote: And by the way why the fuck anyone would change that oldschool BoxeR picture on BW liqupedia to SC2 one? C'mon, if you guys don't have anything to add don't ruin it!!
The old picture had to be removed due to missing license information
On October 01 2020 20:17 RowdierBob wrote: Jangbi underrated. He was better than Bisu. Easily #1 toss.
Definitely
Come on no way Jangbi has a better p v z than Bisu. How do you assert this?
Jangbi's peak PvZ is closer to Bisu's than Bisu's peak PvT is to Jangbi's. As for PvP, I don't think it matters since it's strangely been Jangbi > Stork > Bisu > Jangbi
Top 10 is a little bit too crazy, top 3 is more managable. T: 1.FlaSh 2.NaDa 3.SlayerS_`BoxeR` P: 1.Bisu 2.Nal_rA 3.Stork Z: 1.Jaedong 2.JulyZerg 3.EffOrt
On October 01 2020 20:17 RowdierBob wrote: Jangbi underrated. He was better than Bisu. Easily #1 toss.
Definitely
Come on no way Jangbi has a better p v z than Bisu. How do you assert this?
Jangbi's peak PvZ is closer to Bisu's than Bisu's peak PvT is to Jangbi's. As for PvP, I don't think it matters since it's strangely been Jangbi > Stork > Bisu > Jangbi
Why not, the reasoning is ok to me, still pretty tight imo, I was surprised with the "easily" word.
On October 01 2020 20:17 RowdierBob wrote: Jangbi underrated. He was better than Bisu. Easily #1 toss.
Definitely
Come on no way Jangbi has a better p v z than Bisu. How do you assert this?
Jangbi's peak PvZ is closer to Bisu's than Bisu's peak PvT is to Jangbi's. As for PvP, I don't think it matters since it's strangely been Jangbi > Stork > Bisu > Jangbi
Why not, the reasoning is ok to me, still pretty tight imo, I was surprised with the "easily" word.
Judging strictly by talent level, I'd say it's somewhat "easy". But if you include career achievements and overall stats, then it's not "easy" anymore. I'd say Jangbi's peak showed his ridiculous mind for the game and overall talent in macro, micro and being able to use the full arsenal of protoss units to dismantle the best zergs and terrans alike. I don't think any other protoss player even came close to that level (maybe Afreeca era Rain?). Jangbi truly embraced the strength that is the protoss' race unpredictability by being good with every unit the race has to offer. It's just sad that he struggled with confidence for the vast majority of his career
EPT
