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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/GSwnbBS.png) http://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1/post/60298517 Qualifiers: 21/08 Seoul 22/08 Gwangju 23/08 Busan Signup deadline: 18/08, 2359KST Main Tournament: 06/09 - 15/11, AfreecaTV Hot6 Colosseum, every Sunday + Tuesday at 1900KST ASL10 Mappack: https://910map.tistory.com/category/ASL 시즌10 
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
Edit: whoa wtf Plasma in the map pool? That really took me by suprise. | ||
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TornadoSteve
978 Posts
Also, the bests ASLs are the one where Flash is slightly out of shape. Definately possible for this one... pumped! | ||
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria478 Posts
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Pippah
Denmark353 Posts
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MinixTheNerd
200 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
finally  that wait was way too long. An amazing map pool was chosen I see, too. Plasma is back.. this is crazy! can't wait to see some awesome games this season. HYPE | ||
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1390 Posts
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DiMiaN
Finland299 Posts
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att
128 Posts
On August 12 2020 21:03 DiMiaN wrote: Any foreigners participating in qualifiers this season? I know Bakuryu had plans on going back to korea some day for further qualification opportunitiies in the ASL scene but im not 100% whether it was this asl or potentially a later one. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 12 2020 21:03 DiMiaN wrote: Any foreigners participating in qualifiers this season? Unless they're already in Korea I think it would be very difficult for them to do so right now. There's a mandatory 2 week (I believe) quarantine if you travel there. | ||
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Optimate
244 Posts
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3341 Posts
On August 12 2020 21:03 DiMiaN wrote: Any foreigners participating in qualifiers this season? Cadenzie may be? | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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srj
Canada134 Posts
Or Scarlett? :O | ||
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srj
Canada134 Posts
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
She sounded interested in the interview after theDenzie game. I hope they all go, Artosis Tasteless Nyoken Cadenzie Scarlett, we get some video from a safe distance. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States642 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1409 Posts
i am very jealous. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On August 12 2020 17:50 Wonk wrote: Good god, what is going on with that map Plasma? Whatever you do, watch Iris vs SaviOr on Plasma, it is one of my top 5 favorite BW games of all time. | ||
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psyCrowe
Scotland195 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
It would be really funny if those two had to play each other on this map again. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 12 2020 17:50 Wonk wrote: Good god, what is going on with that map Plasma? 1-base muta vs 2-port wraith It's seriously the meta. | ||
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sntct
100 Posts
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On August 13 2020 09:24 sntct wrote: I hope Flash changes his mind and plays main race Zerg, instead of random in the next ASL. The special random matches vs Zero and Best was like watching a B level ladder player play against the best players in the world. Waste of time, not interested. I'm happy to have a season where Flash isn't the clear favorite. | ||
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KtheZ
United States813 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
FOR FUCK SAKES pleaseee come backkkk | ||
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
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DjKniteX
United States237 Posts
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
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Terra1
Philippines312 Posts
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Copymizer
Denmark2081 Posts
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att
128 Posts
*Note, this is purely speculation and may not reflect on decisions and choices of actual progamer Zero. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1010 Posts
On August 13 2020 09:09 EsportsJohn wrote: 1-base muta vs 2-port wraith It's seriously the meta. That's what I like to see. Gimme that air micro war. Can't wait to have ASL back, the team league seemed cool but it was really hard to follow/watch VODs + no official English cast sucked. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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Sokokrey
74 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On August 13 2020 07:27 CicadaSC wrote: look. a competent country is able to hold offline events again. i am very jealous. If any single city or country in the world had a high enough share of best players in anything they could arrange offline events too. Now it seems like Seoul is the only place for offline Starcraft | ||
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valas991
Hungary181 Posts
On August 13 2020 08:07 r33k wrote: Whatever you do, watch Iris vs SaviOr on Plasma, it is one of my top 5 favorite BW games of all time. Do you have a link for it somewhere? i tried looking it up, but couldn't find it on youtube. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On August 14 2020 05:05 valas991 wrote: Do you have a link for it somewhere? i tried looking it up, but couldn't find it on youtube. If he is thinking of Shinhan S3 semis they didnt play Plasma there, I think. You can always check TLPD though. If there was ever a match, it is recorded there. And yeah that Stork v Best is really good. Stork v Fantasy in finals kind of funny too | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
On August 13 2020 23:42 Sokokrey wrote: Is it too much to ask for Rain's return? this this this | ||
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Optimate
244 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49700 Posts
On August 13 2020 23:42 Sokokrey wrote: Is it too much to ask for Rain's return? yes | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden304 Posts
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dr.who
Dominican Republic145 Posts
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On August 14 2020 10:10 Optimate wrote: I think Flash will be able to make it further than a lot of us think. I figure he will lose in the ro4 to either Light or Sharp. That is because Random isn't as good against Terran players as it is against Z & P. I've been thinking vZ will be hardest for him. It's almost an auto lose ZvZ, will struggle in PvZ, and even if he gets Terran, his TvZ is a bit weaker than his TvP or especially TvT. | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
On August 13 2020 09:24 sntct wrote: I hope Flash changes his mind and plays main race Zerg, instead of random in the next ASL. The special random matches vs Zero and Best was like watching a B level ladder player play against the best players in the world. Waste of time, not interested. You give B level ladder players too much credit, if you're B, you basically don't know how to play Starcraft. Plasma in the pool is mega yikes. I like some of the modifications that have been made to the new maps since they were first shown, but I still don't love them. We'll see... Good games will change my mind. | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
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GTR
51392 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66131 Posts
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marwin
Ukraine109 Posts
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thislooksgreat1
59 Posts
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Immaterial
Canada510 Posts
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A.Alm
Sweden508 Posts
thislooksgreat1, tastosis will most likely be casting the main tournament. | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Optimate
244 Posts
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Salbahe1
2 Posts
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FakeFin
Germany392 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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FakeFin
Germany392 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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FakeFin
Germany392 Posts
On August 21 2020 08:23 PVJ wrote: There's also the star2 qualifiers going on I wonder if that means some changes. I don't really recall if this ever happened before and I don't know how they mod / referee these, do they just have volunteers separately for the two? I think sc2 qualifiers are already over | ||
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GTR
51392 Posts
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FakeFin
Germany392 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1010 Posts
https://www.twitch.tv/artosis https://challonge.com/ASL10_DAY1_GROUP01 | ||
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GTR
51392 Posts
https://challonge.com/users/asl10/tournaments | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
On August 20 2020 18:33 Ziggy wrote: in case anyone was wondering the qualifiers will be held online instead as there's been a recent spike in corona cases in sk Pity, I remember Artosis mentioning it would be offline and was looking forward to it but can't be helped | ||
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GTR
51392 Posts
day 1 (today) - 11am KST day 2 (saturday) - 1pm KST day 3 (sunday) - 1pm KST and apparently artosis is circumventing rules by streaming on twitch? lol 대회에 참여하는 선수분들은 온라인 예선 진행 시 개인방송이 불가하며 예선 종료 후 개인방송 가능한 점 안내드립니다. For players participating in the tournament, personal broadcasts are not allowed during the online preliminary round, and individual broadcasts are available after the preliminary round. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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GTR
51392 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
Chobodari = hero. He just 2-0'd a Terran. Not sure what their tags are in the challonge bracket. I'm assuming he's first seed. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3806 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
On August 21 2020 11:54 ShloobeR wrote: Soulkey vs Midas now Holy is that the Midas from the very beginning? | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
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GTR
51392 Posts
 SorrySharpsSakBarrackS SnowfreeMini Soulkeyby.heroKillerLarvaAction | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On August 21 2020 18:02 Dante08 wrote: Pretty expected results except for Sorry and Bisu And killer Shuttle? | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
Shuttle is kinda washed tbh. I loved him back in the day. But he's just barely hanging on to relevance, looks to me. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
On August 21 2020 20:23 KamMoye wrote: Bisu has looked extremely unimpressive, brief moments aside, since returning. sOrry is well-practiced and in good shape. Shuttle is kinda washed tbh. I loved him back in the day. But he's just barely hanging on to relevance, looks to me. The guy left the army 2 weeks or so ago...give him a break and let him practice a bit before calling him washed :/ | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
Shuttle just came back from army and pvz is just brutal currently. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On August 21 2020 21:15 KobraKay wrote:] The guy left the army 2 weeks or so ago...give him a break and let him practice a bit before calling him washed :/ I didn't know that. I hope he bounces back! | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On August 21 2020 20:23 KamMoye wrote: Bisu has looked extremely unimpressive, brief moments aside, since returning. sOrry is well-practiced and in good shape. Shuttle is kinda washed tbh. I loved him back in the day. But he's just barely hanging on to relevance, looks to me. Sorry is very good. I really think his style fits weel against someone like Bisu. free beating beast is more surprising as well @whaski the state of pvz w the new maps I thought is reset and undecided yet. But yeah good point I can didnt take that into consideration. But not like I ve seen Killer play as much either so my basis for the question was their base level. I think Shuttle has been the better player second half of the decade. From todays qualifiers snow, hero, soulkey might have real chance to advance to the brackets stage, I think. Soulkey is always dark horse though. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
Killer is pretty solid. Nothing special--more like a gatekeeper--but he's a solid Zerg, better than beast imo. sOrry is one of my favorite Terrans so I don't mind him beating Bisu. Bisu needs to just play better. Simple as that. There's a lot of competition right now. Better earn it. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
Notable player + Show Spoiler + Horang2 lost | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
He lost in the first round! | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
Bisu is back against the wall. Hopefully he can pull it together and advance to next round. Shuttle seems to be quite screwed... | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Bisu should qualify tomorrow. He's made the finals of his group twice so far. I'd be amazed if he doesn't advance tomorrow. | ||
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martoto088
32 Posts
Scarllet said she'll play, but cannot see her. I'm missing also Sharp and Larva | ||
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llllllllllIIIIIlllll
Korea (North)26 Posts
On August 22 2020 22:03 martoto088 wrote: Is Flash auto qualifiled cuz he finish 3rd last ASL? yes top4 of previous season is get a quote in next one | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3806 Posts
On August 22 2020 16:31 KamMoye wrote: Who was the top seed for Group 1? + Show Spoiler + He lost in the first round! I think that's Pusan | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On August 22 2020 18:57 ggsimida wrote: asl8 i believe ZerO choke in all the qualifier days. bisu goona follow suit lol? Not sure if he's choking. He's losing to good players who are executing well. This isn't 2010 Bisu. He's nowhere near an elite Brood War player anymore. (Meaning anywhere near top-5.) Let's give his opponents more credit. | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
On August 23 2020 00:30 KamMoye wrote: Not sure if he's choking. He's losing to good players who are executing well. This isn't 2010 Bisu. He's nowhere near an elite Brood War player anymore. (Meaning anywhere near top-5.) Let's give his opponents more credit. bisu is still currently a top10ish sponbbang player. in the games against sorry bisu was matching him pretty well until he decide to donate units for free through dubious recalls and the like. so yeah i think choke is still a apt verb for it | ||
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sntct
100 Posts
On August 23 2020 00:30 KamMoye wrote: Not sure if he's choking. He's losing to good players who are executing well. This isn't 2010 Bisu. He's nowhere near an elite Brood War player anymore. (Meaning anywhere near top-5.) Let's give his opponents more credit. What's the names of the players is he losing to? | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On August 23 2020 02:19 sntct wrote: What's the names of the players is he losing to? Well he lost to Sorry, but Bisu has always been a bit weak in long tvps.. Beast is definetly improved as a player. However if we look resultwise in Asl Bisu was in ro8. The same cannot be said about Sorry or Beast. Sponmatch results put Bisu at least in top 10 close to top 5 in elo rate over 1200, while Sorry jaa barely hit that and beast was under 1100 when I last looked. If anything Bisu should have won against both of these guys, must be cracking under pressure. Also I still think maps play their part here. | ||
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sntct
100 Posts
On August 23 2020 03:42 whaski wrote: Well he lost to Sorry, but Bisu has always been a bit weak in long tvps.. Beast is definetly improved as a player. However if we look resultwise in Asl Bisu was in ro8. The same cannot be said about Sorry or Beast. Sponmatch results put Bisu at least in top 10 close to top 5 in elo rate over 1200, while Sorry jaa barely hit that and beast was under 1100 when I last looked. If anything Bisu should have won against both of these guys, must be cracking under pressure. Also I still think maps play their part here. Do you have a link or timestamp to the Bisu series so I can watch them? | ||
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martoto088
32 Posts
On August 23 2020 04:16 sntct wrote: Do you have a link or timestamp to the Bisu series so I can watch them? There are on Flash and Bisu's YT channels | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On August 23 2020 00:56 ggsimida wrote: bisu is still currently a top10ish sponbbang player. in the games against sorry bisu was matching him pretty well until he decide to donate units for free through dubious recalls and the like. so yeah i think choke is still a apt verb for it Players Bisu is a massive underdog against in a BoX series: - Light - Flash - ZerO - Soulkey - Rain - Action Players Bisu is probably an underdog against in a BoX series: - Best - herO - Mini - Soma - Larva - Sharp - sOrry - SnOw (edited in) I'd say all those players I mentioned are, at this time, 52% or better favorites v Bisu right now. (Yes, I say this aware that he beat Best and sOrry in the last ASL.) Even if you disagree, what do you think Bisu is vs beast or sOrry in a Bo3? 55% favorite at best? Does he have spongbang results with a decent sample size (let's say 30 games) on any of the players in the above list with a >55% win rate? Brood War is a swingy game. It's not unreasonable to lose four consecutive games against two players you're basically a coin-flip against. How is that choking? It's sheer statistical chance. This isn't Bisu losing to some scrubs. And if you look at the quality of the games... Bisu got straight-up outplayed. Game 1, he even intuited Beast was going for an aggressive Muta opening--he made a cannon in his main before the first Mutas even hit. He simply got out-micro'd and made a lot of poor decisions under pressure. He was too greedy, made too many probes, and got punished. Even after the Mutas first entered his main, Bisu was still making probes. If you look at the probe count, Bisu was at 40+ probes! Vs a 2-hatch muta build! That's not greedy? (Which is the whole point of beast's build--put the opponent under massive pressure.) Game 2? Well, Game 1 beast was super aggressive. You *have* to be aware of the possibility he may do it again. Do you really think beast wants to play a standard macro game in Bisu's best matchup? After he won Game 1? Probably not. It's not really all that complicated of game theory. And the same thing happened--beast puts on a ton of pressure, Bisu gets out-micro'd and makes poor decisions. He deserved to lose. Vs Sorry, well, anyone who watches Bisu a lot knows he's not very good in long macro games vs Terran. Anyone who watches sOrry a lot knows he's quite good in long macro games. Not a shocker. I don't see how losing two macro games is choking. I say this as Bisu's biggest fan. (Why do you think I care so much?) Bisu's been my favorite player since Day 1. But I'm not here to suck anyone's dick. I'm here to support great StarCraft. If Bisu isn't good enough, he isn't good enough. Right now he's not good enough. If he loses again Day 3, well, it's pretty embarrassing. But embarrassing isn't anything new for Bisu fans. Let's be real. He shits the bed a lot of times under pressure. How many times has he lost to Shine now? Remember when he got flat-out embarrassed by herO in the ASL or whatever Finals a couple of years ago? (I do, because I stayed up for it. It was a laughing stock.) | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
On August 23 2020 05:36 KamMoye wrote: Players Bisu is a massive underdog against in a BoX series: - Rain hahaha whaski also proved my point, also beast is a top 25ish sponbbang player last i checked. yes improved but hes not yet a soma (and never will from what i seen no offence to the player) and a known quality that bisu, a top 10ish player, is supposed to beat very handily. top10 losing to top25 is not a literal choke? clever play?? top10 sponbbang and ro8 last season but "not good enough" lmao. yes im not giving excuses for bisu, that why i said he choked. | ||
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Scarlett`
China2374 Posts
On August 23 2020 03:42 whaski wrote: Well he lost to Sorry, but Bisu has always been a bit weak in long tvps.. Beast is definetly improved as a player. However if we look resultwise in Asl Bisu was in ro8. The same cannot be said about Sorry or Beast. Sponmatch results put Bisu at least in top 10 close to top 5 in elo rate over 1200, while Sorry jaa barely hit that and beast was under 1100 when I last looked. If anything Bisu should have won against both of these guys, must be cracking under pressure. Also I still think maps play their part here. sorry has been higher rated than bisu recently on sponbbang;; 3rd terran after flash/light | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
On August 23 2020 11:00 Scarlett` wrote: sorry has been higher rated than bisu recently on sponbbang;; 3rd terran after flash/light they both around top10 if i recall. also among the protosses bisu is still top2 (behind snow) afaik | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On August 23 2020 09:17 ggsimida wrote: hahaha whaski also proved my point, also beast is a top 25ish sponbbang player last i checked. yes improved but hes not yet a soma (and never will from what i seen no offence to the player) and a known quality that bisu, a top 10ish player, is supposed to beat very handily. top10 losing to top25 is not a literal choke? clever play?? top10 sponbbang and ro8 last season but "not good enough" lmao. yes im not giving excuses for bisu, that why i said he choked. You are not demonstrating an ability to think or analyze critically, so feel free to have the last word. I forgot Snow as another player who I would mark as a favorite against Bisu in a BoX. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On August 23 2020 14:42 thedeadhaji wrote: I haven’t been a diligent follower of the scene lately, but I thought Rain had a nearly unbeatable BoX PvP as recently as 2019? Rain's no longer competing. | ||
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Belladona
Chile127 Posts
Greetings, kind regards to every1 | ||
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Miragee
8461 Posts
On August 23 2020 00:56 ggsimida wrote: bisu is still currently a top10ish sponbbang player. in the games against sorry bisu was matching him pretty well until he decide to donate units for free through dubious recalls and the like. so yeah i think choke is still a apt verb for it That's Bisu's PvT style though: Play very solid macro in early and mid game and either be at least even or pull far ahead, then, in late game, donate units until he has to gg. //Who is playing right now on stream? Is this a final round? I'm not impressed... | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
On August 23 2020 17:09 Miragee wrote: That's Bisu's PvT style though: Play very solid macro in early and mid game and either be at least even or pull far ahead, then, in late game, donate units until he has to gg. //Who is playing right now on stream? Is this a final round? I'm not impressed... prearmy bisu would have crushed current sorry before he starts donating to the salvation army | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
He'll be back. I have no inside knowledge. I just don't think he's done yet. Call it a gut feeling. And when he does come back, I think you'd have to be a fool to pick any other Protoss over him in a BoX. His army movement is un-bee-lieveeeeeeeeeeee-able! | ||
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Miragee
8461 Posts
On August 23 2020 17:36 ggsimida wrote: prearmy bisu would have crushed current sorry before he starts donating to the salvation army Well, he just made it by smashing (judging by the last bit of the second match) some protoss. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
I think we just have to disagree then. From all the current protosses I still see Bisu being more solid player compared to Snow, Best or Mini. I have stated this before and by numbers maps like neo Sylphid, Optimizer and Polypoid are truly bad for pvz and pvt. And finally players who Bisu usually plays against spongames are higher "tier" comparing to that of Sorry or Beast. For sure you have tougher time getting to top 5 if you play constantly proleague or B.o. against Light, Flash, Zero or Soulkey compared if you match against Sacsri, Free or Rush. | ||
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Miragee
8461 Posts
Yoon is still playing on stream (down 0-1)? | ||
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On August 23 2020 18:48 whaski wrote: Rain is too busy playing pokemon and mmos with girls... I think we just have to disagree then. From all the current protosses I still see Bisu being more solid player compared to Snow, Best or Mini. I have stated this before and by numbers maps like neo Sylphid, Optimizer and Polypoid are truly bad for pvz and pvt. And finally players who Bisu usually plays against spongames are higher "tier" comparing to that of Sorry or Beast. For sure you have tougher time getting to top 5 if you play constantly proleague or B.o. against Light, Flash, Zero or Soulkey compared if you match against Sacsri, Free or Rush. Do you have any numbers to back this up? sOrry has been a top tier Terran for a while now. As Scarlett said earlier, he's the 3rd-best Terran. There's only one tier higher than him: Flash/Light. Sounds like you're underrating sOrry. His skill reminds me of Bogus' skill back in the day. Both are/were quite underrated for whatever reason. I don't know why you're acting like he's on the level of Sacsri or Rush. You're creating a false equivalency re Flash/Light/Zero vs Sacsri/Free/Rush. So you're trying to imply Bisu only plays elite players and sOrry plays Tier 3 or worse players? Do you have the stats to back that up? Do spongbang results account for quality of competition? | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
On August 24 2020 03:49 KamMoye wrote: Do you have any numbers to back this up? sOrry has been a top tier Terran for a while now. As Scarlett said earlier, he's the 3rd-best Terran. There's only one tier higher than him: Flash/Light. Sounds like you're underrating sOrry. His skill reminds me of Bogus' skill back in the day. Both are/were quite underrated for whatever reason. I don't know why you're acting like he's on the level of Sacsri or Rush. You're creating a false equivalency re Flash/Light/Zero vs Sacsri/Free/Rush. So you're trying to imply Bisu only plays elite players and sOrry plays Tier 3 or worse players? Do you have the stats to back that up? Do spongbang results account for quality of competition? Well, just to share some additional info for your debate, sOrry had a performance to be sorry for in the last "official" tournament, i.e., ASTL. 0-3 (2 vP lost against Mini and Snow and 1 vZ against Miso of all people) | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
On August 24 2020 02:02 NoS-Craig wrote: The TLPD button is using his sc2 race not his BW race. Wait that is the actual Leta? The captain still plays SC? Niceee | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On August 24 2020 03:49 KamMoye wrote: Do you have any numbers to back this up? sOrry has been a top tier Terran for a while now. As Scarlett said earlier, he's the 3rd-best Terran. There's only one tier higher than him: Flash/Light. Sounds like you're underrating sOrry. His skill reminds me of Bogus' skill back in the day. Both are/were quite underrated for whatever reason. I don't know why you're acting like he's on the level of Sacsri or Rush. You're creating a false equivalency re Flash/Light/Zero vs Sacsri/Free/Rush. So you're trying to imply Bisu only plays elite players and sOrry plays Tier 3 or worse players? Do you have the stats to back that up? Do spongbang results account for quality of competition? No, I am trying to remember july entries, sponbbang is still down. Im not trying to paint Sorry as elofarmer but during that time he played a lot against Sacsri, Free and Rush. I like Sorrys style a lot and agree on that he is at the moment third best terran. However same can be said about Rush and even Ssak if we look Afreeca team battle or Kcm drafts. Ssak and Rush were drafted well before Sorry. Also if we look back on july I remember Sorry having something like 1200 elo, while Rush, Ssak and Piano had 1990 or similar. Bisu was well beyond that with 1240. I concede the point of Bisus pvt, it seems that after military he has been just as lost in it, even more than in Asl 4 series against Flash... | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
0-3 in astl "top tier terran" "third best terran" | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On August 24 2020 09:06 ggsimida wrote: crashed out of asl9 ro24 0-3 in astl "top tier terran" "third best terran" If you don't understand sample size and statistics, you really should just stop it with the disingenuous posting. You're telling on yourself. How old are you, man? Have you ever taken a college-level statistics class? I mean, do you want to put your money where your mouth is? I do. $10 per set? It doesn't have to be a lot. Even $5. The point is, how much do you really believe what you're saying? Or are you just talking out the side of your mouth? If it's the latter, well, go to the play room. Let the adults talk. On August 24 2020 05:47 whaski wrote: No, I am trying to remember july entries, sponbbang is still down. Im not trying to paint Sorry as elofarmer but during that time he played a lot against Sacsri, Free and Rush. I like Sorrys style a lot and agree on that he is at the moment third best terran. However same can be said about Rush and even Ssak if we look Afreeca team battle or Kcm drafts. Ssak and Rush were drafted well before Sorry. Also if we look back on july I remember Sorry having something like 1200 elo, while Rush, Ssak and Piano had 1990 or similar. Bisu was well beyond that with 1240. I concede the point of Bisus pvt, it seems that after military he has been just as lost in it, even more than in Asl 4 series against Flash... KCM, sure. I watch every match of KCM. I think it's right up there with ASL in importance, especially since the Winner stays. I'll go through the last two years of results later. The ASL Team League? Umm... don't make me laugh. That shit was a joke. Okay, to be fair: who did he play? The record isn't the end-all be-all. If you went 3-0 beating Free, Shuttle and Huro, that's not as good as going 2-1 versus Soulkey, Sharp and Soma. Even 1-2 vs the latter three is probably equivalent, or close to, 3-0 vs the former group, you know what I'm saying? I don't know spongbang results, so I apologize if you feel i was asking "gotcha" questions. I wasn't. I genuinely don't keep up at all with those. I don't know how they're formulated. I would assume they account for quality of competition, but I don't know. I would be willing to blindly bet money sOrry's results over Rush or sSak in ASL/KCM the past two to two and a half years. I really do think that's how long it takes to build a decent competitive sample size in Brood War. To anyone who doesn't realize: a 55% win rate against competiton is elite. Go look at the past BW pros, back when there were ELO ranks all the time. There were what, 8-12 players with a 55% overall win rate? I don't think the average BW viewer is realizing: this game is hard. Everyone is mad good. If you are winning 60 out of 100 games vs a certain player, you are dominating that player. *That means four out of ten times they will beat you.* You can't credibly use evidence of losing one game to Miso with a straight face. Now, I don't know the maps like that. If it's like, this map has 50 or 75 ZvT games on it, and the T wins 65% of the time, *and* the players playing on that map are approximately equal in skill... you see what I'm saying? We have to think scientifically. This process-over-results line of analytical thinking is why, by the way, I think sOrry is so good. He plays an extremely solid, sustainable solid. It's not gimmicky. It scales well against all opponents. It's why he reminds me of Bogus, who also played a similar rock-solid strategy. It's why I suspect he's better than Sharp, because Sharp's style is more high-variance and doesn't scale as well vs all opponents, all races. | ||
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
That's just my opinion from watching them a lot over the years. They always seem like they should be a little better than they are. I feel like Rush has more potential than sSak. I'd be quite curious to see all three of Rush, sSak and sOrry's results over the past 3 years in KCM/ASL/spongbang. Intuitively, I feel like Rush and sSak are mincemeat against the top 10 or so players, while sOrry can actually respectably compete. | ||
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
Also if you look at things like the castermuse starleague, Both Rush and Ssak have done better than him. | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
He's basically a build order robot. He got a lot of hype because he went biomech a few times, but that turned out to be a mediocre build anyway. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On August 25 2020 00:47 NoS-Craig wrote: Out of curiosity who do you guys think is the number 2 Terran right now? I think maybe Light. If we look only online results, Light is by far the second best. Only Flash and Light are on 1300 side of the elo-rankings or at least they were when Sponbbang still worked. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 25 2020 00:47 NoS-Craig wrote: Out of curiosity who do you guys think is the number 2 Terran right now? I think maybe Light. It's definitely 100% Light. | ||
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chillzzz
30 Posts
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Terrakin
United States1440 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On August 25 2020 00:01 LG)Sabbath wrote: He's basically a build order robot. That's what they said about Light for years and years. The biggest part to getting great at this game is superior mechanics. If I can go "standard" and overwhelm you with pure mechanics, well... why wouldn't I? It scales far better than any other skill in BW. It's both the best and worst thing about this game, imo. On August 24 2020 15:02 ggsimida wrote: all i see some boomer gambler that resorts to mental gymnastics to discard actual competitive results and go off on their own tangent of how how he thinks sorry is the next bonjwa. sorry (no pun intended) not wasting energy talking to delusional fanboys. You obviously hate yourself. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." You all up in your feelings. I'm laughing to the (spiritual, financial, emotional, physical) bank. On August 24 2020 14:48 Avi-Love wrote: You spend so much time and energy talking about statistics and being scientific. Sorry has qualified for ASL once ever, and he lost in the first round. Ssak, Rush and Sharp have all qualified a plethora of times, and have made it further than the first round more often than not. I know that Sorry has done decently in KCM, and I feel like you're using that as a crotch to compare oranges to apples -- KCM is a weekly online tournament for a few hundred $ (or whatever it is), ASL is the most prestigious offline tournament in SC:R with an actual prize pool. Until Sorry performs at such a stage, I don't think it's fair to say he is the third best terran, no one gives a shit about practice or online bonjwas. Also if you look at things like the castermuse starleague, Both Rush and Ssak have done better than him. You're not saying anything except repeating yourself. Must be a bruised ego. This isn't a competition. And, if it was, you would lose. So there's that. But it's a discussion, not a competition. You're just not bringing anything to the table for me. I'm happy to bet on it. Otherwise, feel free to have the last word. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
Groups for Ro24 have been posted. And rofl, Bisu gets Shined hahaha. | ||
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
On August 26 2020 01:59 KamMoye wrote: That's what they said about Light for years and years. The biggest part to getting great at this game is superior mechanics. If I can go "standard" and overwhelm you with pure mechanics, well... why wouldn't I? It scales far better than any other skill in BW. It's both the best and worst thing about this game, imo. You obviously hate yourself. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." You all up in your feelings. I'm laughing to the (spiritual, financial, emotional, physical) bank. You're not saying anything except repeating yourself. Must be a bruised ego. This isn't a competition. And, if it was, you would lose. So there's that. But it's a discussion, not a competition. You're just not bringing anything to the table for me. I'm happy to bet on it. Otherwise, feel free to have the last word. Yes my ego is terribly bruised over a 900 mmr Sorry fanboy on tl.net shitposting, and when confronted by the very things he himself demands (ie statistics / being scientific) his last defense is to try to act like a "Cool bro". Unfortunately for you the only thing you've made clear to everyone in this thread is that you're the very personification of the Dunning-Kruger effect. However, I do enjoy betting a lot, so how about I make you a counter offer -- bo5, you vs me, we both put up our own money to be held by a trusted escrow? | ||
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Grouhh
54 Posts
No idea if he is going to advance or not, but this certainly doesn't look like an easy group. | ||
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Suckmy9inches
5 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49700 Posts
On August 26 2020 18:57 whaski wrote: http://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1/post/60886596 Groups for Ro24 have been posted. And rofl, Bisu gets Shined hahaha. thanks updated LP | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada1999 Posts
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Optimate
244 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada1999 Posts
On August 28 2020 12:13 Optimate wrote: Jaedong is a pretty huge one and I was wondering if he didn't play because he is just inactive? https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/560617-jaedong-farewell-to-the-tyrant He's in the army. | ||
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
Firstly, Sorry is ranked 14th, his TvP results being worse than his TvZ results (as expected, and as I said they would be). Rush is ranked 7th, with similar TvP results and surprisingly good TvZ results, overall he has a slightly higher win rate vs similar opponents. Now with that out of the way, I would like to draw attention to the ASL maps this season, I filtered these results from MAY 2020, since I don't think results from several years ago reflect current metas / tactics / balance, and May seems like a good enough start time to include all of the games played on the new maps. These are listed in order of games played, with the first being the largest sample size. Polypoid: TvP 54.4%, TvZ 55.1%, ZvP 54.4%. Eclipse: TvP 50.4%, TvZ 54%, ZvP 55.4% Optimizer: TvP 53.4%, TvZ 65.6%, ZvP 53.3% (huge drop in games played now) Benzene: TvP 64.1%, TvZ 40.2%, ZvP 64.4% (~400 games played) Ringing Bloom: TvP 50%, TvZ 75.6%, ZvP 46.7% (~130 games played) Plasma and Shakuras both have <20 games played, so completely pointless to even speculate in my opinion. My own conclussion, for whatever that is worth, it would appear that terran is in a very strong place right now, and these maps lean quite heavily in their favour -- I don't recall seeing ASL stats this lopsided (where one race is winning both of their matchups on practically all of the maps). | ||
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
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InmateNextdoor
43 Posts
Does anyone know why rain is not playing? Did rain give up on BW tournaments for good? | ||
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Miragee
8461 Posts
On August 28 2020 21:37 Szinkler wrote: Interesting stats, thanks for putting these together Avi! I second this, thanks a lot! | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden508 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
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Kuks
43 Posts
Why has FlaSh been changed from Random to Terran? Did he change his mind? | ||
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FakeFin
Germany392 Posts
On August 29 2020 09:46 Kuks wrote: Why has FlaSh been changed from Random to Terran? Did he change his mind? In the official afreeca posts he is marked as terran | ||
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Kuks
43 Posts
On August 29 2020 10:04 FakeFin wrote: In the official afreeca posts he is marked as terran That makes sense, he is still rolling Random though, right? | ||
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Optimate
244 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49700 Posts
but know this, flash is known to troll. | ||
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Kuks
43 Posts
Ill, still be super excited to watch him either way. He does things as Terran that no one else can. #UltimateWeapon | ||
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
i will lose a bit of respect for him to be honest. this whole "going random" troll is super old and lame now to be honest. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49700 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
On August 30 2020 23:04 BLinD-RawR wrote: it was just something he said on a stream that one time and everyone bought into it. well.. he never said he will not do it.. on the contrary actually. He continued to egg people on.. | ||
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TornadoSteve
978 Posts
 Love to watch both guys | ||
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MinixTheNerd
200 Posts
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Kuks
43 Posts
It seemed unlikely that FlaSh would go back on his Random announcement after this showing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5LB9GN5X4 | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1010 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On August 31 2020 00:21 Kuks wrote: When FlaSh first announced Random I was skeptic, but then he went on stage and played Random live on TEN. If anyone didnt watch that series they should, it was casted by Tastosis. FlaSh Random vs Bisu, Best, and Queen, best of threes. It seemed unlikely that FlaSh would go back on his Random announcement after this showing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5LB9GN5X4 its just flash trying to keep it interesting for himself he has all the championships he wants so yeah he is gonna go random | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6504 Posts
On August 30 2020 23:04 BLinD-RawR wrote: it was just something he said on a stream that one time and everyone bought into it. He said it on his stream. He made an announcement on youtube. he said the last time he played ASL.They even make that event just for him and to show his random skills.I honestly thought the random was a serious thing.If he doesnt play random is not a big deal cuz We will see his main race and his unpair skills like always. is a win win situation imo. | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
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FakeFin
Germany392 Posts
On August 31 2020 10:31 ggsimida wrote: you sure its not an admin typo he was shown as terran in two announcements:  Participant Graphic Ro24 Group Announcement | ||
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
On August 31 2020 11:01 FakeFin wrote: he was shown as terran in two announcements: Participant Graphic Ro24 Group Announcementone of the top picked comment (with 12 upvotes) in the first link is talking about Flash as an (R) and noone nitpicked on it | ||
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End1esss
12 Posts
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TornadoSteve
978 Posts
On August 31 2020 12:41 End1esss wrote: As much I hate to say I think Bisu slowly turning into a casual player like Rain and Sea. If u follow his YouTube channel no new SC video in a long while. Most likely he will be knock out inRO24. You wont be happy to read that, but unlike Bisu, Sea and Rain made this choice. Bisu is not following anymore and the army break cant be excused anymore. | ||
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TornadoSteve
978 Posts
On August 30 2020 23:28 M3t4PhYzX wrote: well.. he never said he will not do it.. on the contrary actually. He continued to egg people on.. This | ||
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Raendenth
2 Posts
I finished my own calculation of ASL points for this ASL season, if any of you is interested, I share it here. 1 Seed Flash 14410 | ||
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Optimate
244 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Or leta for that matter Yeah it's win win w Flash but wouldnt such buildup leave bit of sour taste? I mean he was always the champion because he acted upon his decisions without littlest of hesitation. Also wasnt BarrackS R in Caster Muse's Starleague? | ||
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FakeFin
Germany392 Posts
On September 01 2020 06:27 PVJ wrote: Also wasnt BarrackS R in Caster Muse's Starleague? that was BishOp | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
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martoto088
32 Posts
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Optimate
244 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Oops Thanks! | ||
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Mettis
84 Posts
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LocoBolon
Argentina243 Posts
On September 02 2020 07:08 Mettis wrote: Did Rain retire btw? I haven't been following broodwar long but I heard he was a beast. Who's the Protoss hope? Flash ofc | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina243 Posts
On August 31 2020 08:49 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: He said it on his stream. He made an announcement on youtube. he said the last time he played ASL.They even make that event just for him and to show his random skills.I honestly thought the random was a serious thing.If he doesnt play random is not a big deal cuz We will see his main race and his unpair skills like always. is a win win situation imo. Once again you speak with the truth, you do get it man | ||
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DiMiaN
Finland299 Posts
On August 31 2020 12:41 End1esss wrote: As much I hate to say I think Bisu slowly turning into a casual player like Rain and Sea. If u follow his YouTube channel no new SC video in a long while. Most likely he will be knock out inRO24. I hope this isn't true but we will see in a couple days.  | ||
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On September 02 2020 07:08 Mettis wrote: Did Rain retire btw? I haven't been following broodwar long but I heard he was a beast. Who's the Protoss hope? Snow. Though Mini and Bisu could potentially regain some past glory this tournament. | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
asl10 hype vid | ||
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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Kuks
43 Posts
On September 02 2020 07:08 Mettis wrote: Did Rain retire btw? I haven't been following broodwar long but I heard he was a beast. Who's the Protoss hope? Stork of coarse! | ||
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bracala
95 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19199 Posts
On September 02 2020 13:54 QOGQOG wrote: Snow. Though Mini and Bisu could potentially regain some past glory this tournament. Rain has been great. He won from a combination of insane PvP, bracket luck, and protoss favored maps (hence the insane PvP being significant). You could say that Snow has had nearly the same exact success except he couldn't overcome Rain. So, hands down Snow has to be the best Protoss in this ASL. | ||
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On September 03 2020 04:26 BisuDagger wrote: Rain has been great. He won from a combination of insane PvP, bracket luck, and protoss favored maps (hence the insane PvP being significant). You could say that Snow has had nearly the same exact success except he couldn't overcome Rain. So, hands down Snow has to be the best Protoss in this ASL. Yeah, plus Snow has a better chance against top tier Terrans than Rain did. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden304 Posts
How much BW is Bisu playing these days? I hear people saying that he doesn't take it as seriously and doesn't put in the work to really get in great shape. But I also hear people say that he has been playing great on stream. So, what is it? Also, Rain. Why did he stop playing? I've heard wrist issues but I've also heard that he simply didn't think it was that fun anymore. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19199 Posts
On September 03 2020 21:24 Barneyk wrote: So I don't follow things very closely and this thread is making me confused. How much BW is Bisu playing these days? I hear people saying that he doesn't take it as seriously and doesn't put in the work to really get in great shape. But I also hear people say that he has been playing great on stream. So, what is it? Also, Rain. Why did he stop playing? I've heard wrist issues but I've also heard that he simply didn't think it was that fun anymore. It's both. Obviously Bisu is improving because he went two years without playing, but Bisu stopped taking tournaments seriously when he shave his eyebrows before the Vant Starleague Finals and then got embarrassed by Effort. I still love to watch Bisu play and will always cheer for him, but he lost his competitive edge at the closing of the Sospa era. | ||
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
On September 04 2020 00:44 Avi-Love wrote: I think you're being overly harsh, Bisu is playing a lot and appears to be tryharding -- he's currently ranked 3rd in spon, only behind Flash and Light. He also had a really strong showing in KCM just yesterday. I would even say that he's currently the best pvz player, while Best or Snow are probably the best at pvt -- no idea about pvp since no one really wants to watch/sponsor mirror match ups, and events like KCM obviously have none. flash smacced the fuck out of him in pvp the other day fwiw | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19199 Posts
On September 04 2020 00:44 Avi-Love wrote: I think you're being overly harsh, Bisu is playing a lot and appears to be tryharding -- he's currently ranked 3rd in spon, only behind Flash and Light. He also had a really strong showing in KCM just yesterday. I would even say that he's currently the best pvz player, while Best or Snow are probably the best at pvt -- no idea about pvp since no one really wants to watch/sponsor mirror match ups, and events like KCM obviously have none. I'm doing a snap shot impression of him since ASL started. He has been goofed on in far to many matches where he is clearly the better player if he is in the best mental condition and we'll prepared. It seems like both his preparation and mental fortitude in a boX series has been really weak. And when he loses a series in the ASL it's littered with mistakes no veteran should be making at this point. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Both were really close to being in finals for Asl9 Wondering how much the ASTL debacle will derail Stork but he's been tearing ladder up and he's mostly great in offline toirsneys where preparation matters. Snow is the greatest P currently I believe, no denying that. Mettis, you should go watch Rain's reign in KSL and ASL (fe Rain v Stork however much that hurts or Rain v Zero) and Snow v Flash in ASL5(?) Snow v Last in season 6(?) those should give you an idea. | ||
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
Best pretty much always chokes when it matters, regardless of how well he does in minor events and in spon games, so best to just assume the worst. Mini used to be respectable, but 4-5 months ago it seems like he fell off a cliff, he's very shaky and the quality of his play varies wildly, way too inconsistent to make it deep. Bisu/Snow are the only real chance P has of doing anything in this ASL, in my opinion. Although I still maintain that IF Flash plays T, he's a lock for the win -- otherwise LighT is. They are both just a step above the competition, and with almost all of the maps being good for T in both matchups, this ASL almost feels predetermined. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
On September 03 2020 04:26 BisuDagger wrote: Rain has been great. He won from a combination of insane PvP, bracket luck, and protoss favored maps (hence the insane PvP being significant). You could say that Snow has had nearly the same exact success except he couldn't overcome Rain. So, hands down Snow has to be the best Protoss in this ASL. Fuck off Go look at both of Rain's championship brackets Also, even in the tournaments that he didn't get 1st place in, go look at his matchups and the games he won In all the premiere tournaments, he never placed below Top 8 ASL RO8 ASL 1st place KSL 3rd place ASL RO8 KSL 3rd place ASL 4th place KSL 1st place ASL 3rd place KSL 2nd place I dont know how you can downplay someone's success on their opponents, you beat who is put in front of you, and the way Rain was INCREDIBLY dominant in the matchup despite it being the 2nd most volatile rock paper scissors matchup in the game under ZvZ was amazing to watch Now go look at Snow's results and Im laughing as I write this with how worse his results and play were compared to Rains | ||
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Kuks
43 Posts
I don't see the point in arguing about Rain, he will not playing this season. But Stork! No doubt he will be seeded into season 11. I realize he has had a rough go of ASL. When the tournaments first started he was struggling to get out of the round of 24 consistently. Each season he has worked hard and its showing in his improved performance. Last season he did the best of all the Protoss players! Stork may not be the most mechanical player, but he is one of the most clever. He seems to figure out new and strange maps quick and begin defining the meta on them. This season certainly is outside the box, wtf is Plasma? None of the mainstream maps like Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breakers, or Neo Sylphid are in here, which should favor Stork. Best said it best, "Its like everything he (Stork) says is gospel". Snow is exceptional, no doubt there! His one base win vs Soulkey's 3 hatch hydra was the most well played game of ASL so far. I would expect Snow to place right behind Stork. What an exciting season this will be! | ||
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On September 04 2020 09:30 ShowTheLights wrote: Fuck off Go look at both of Rain's championship brackets Also, even in the tournaments that he didn't get 1st place in, go look at his matchups and the games he won In all the premiere tournaments, he never placed below Top 8 ASL RO8 ASL 1st place KSL 3rd place ASL RO8 KSL 3rd place ASL 4th place KSL 1st place ASL 3rd place KSL 2nd place I dont know how you can downplay someone's success on their opponents, you beat who is put in front of you, and the way Rain was INCREDIBLY dominant in the matchup despite it being the 2nd most volatile rock paper scissors matchup in the game under ZvZ was amazing to watch Now go look at Snow's results and Im laughing as I write this with how worse his results and play were compared to Rains Wow, I forgot how obnoxious Rain fans are. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
On September 04 2020 10:49 QOGQOG wrote: Wow, I forgot how obnoxious Rain fans are. Wow, great counterargument I am defending him because Dr. BisuDagger is being extremely sarcastic when it comes to how Rain can "only win PvP" | ||
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On September 04 2020 10:52 ShowTheLights wrote: Wow, great counterargument I am defending him because Dr. BisuDagger is being extremely sarcastic when it comes to how Rain can "only win PvP" He wasn't exactly bashing him, given he started the post with "Rain has been great." That's an actual quote as opposed to "Rain can only win PvP," which no one said. Given, however, that Rain won ASL5 thanks to Snow eliminating Flash (followed by winning a PvP against Snow in the finals) and KSL3 through a PvP Ro4 and Finals, attributing a lot of his success to PvP prowess is... completely fair and justifiable. And even if you think "great" was somehow unfairly underrating Rain, responding to that with "fuck off" and insulting Snow for some reason is totally uncalled for. RE: Stork He is good, and creative. But it's really hard for me to see him winning against the top four from last season. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66131 Posts
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On September 04 2020 09:30 ShowTheLights wrote: Fuck off Go look at both of Rain's championship brackets Also, even in the tournaments that he didn't get 1st place in, go look at his matchups and the games he won In all the premiere tournaments, he never placed below Top 8 ASL RO8 ASL 1st place KSL 3rd place ASL RO8 KSL 3rd place ASL 4th place KSL 1st place ASL 3rd place KSL 2nd place I dont know how you can downplay someone's success on their opponents, you beat who is put in front of you, and the way Rain was INCREDIBLY dominant in the matchup despite it being the 2nd most volatile rock paper scissors matchup in the game under ZvZ was amazing to watch Now go look at Snow's results and Im laughing as I write this with how worse his results and play were compared to Rains I dont know how you can downplay players like Snow or Bisu when compared to Rain. Rain was talented but extremely lazy (shown in his online body of work, just ask letmelose). Asl 5 had Third world, protoss map unlike other and Hero played subpar against Rain. Asl 6 stomped by Effort KSL 1 lost 0-4 to JD and lost online 3rd place match to Soulkey. Asl 6 lost to Effort despite the maps. KSL 2 Lost to Sharp lol. And lost to Last in online 3rd place match. KSL 3 was protoss fest again (some players even switched races during it). Asl7 Lost to Last and Effort in humilating was and asl 8 Flashed out. KSL 4 I agree, impressive win over Zero and quite badly besten By Light who was hitting his stride. Bisu then has always reached ro8, and won a league, has multiple silvers and 3rd place finishes plus online victories. Rain rarely made to top 10 in sponrankings, he usually had something like 45% winrate when players like Bisu, Snow and Best are constantly in top 10. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19199 Posts
On September 04 2020 09:30 ShowTheLights wrote: Fuck off Go look at both of Rain's championship brackets Also, even in the tournaments that he didn't get 1st place in, go look at his matchups and the games he won In all the premiere tournaments, he never placed below Top 8 ASL RO8 ASL 1st place KSL 3rd place ASL RO8 KSL 3rd place ASL 4th place KSL 1st place ASL 3rd place KSL 2nd place I dont know how you can downplay someone's success on their opponents, you beat who is put in front of you, and the way Rain was INCREDIBLY dominant in the matchup despite it being the 2nd most volatile rock paper scissors matchup in the game under ZvZ was amazing to watch Now go look at Snow's results and Im laughing as I write this with how worse his results and play were compared to Rains You don't need to throw insults to have a good discussion. Take a second to pause before you post angrily next time please. And I have a right to my opinion, which happens to include the fact that Rain probably could have been considered the top 1 or 2 protoss of all time had he been able to start his Kespa run a few years earlier. He certainly has the innate talent. Let's take a walk in the past and analyze Bisu's past. Bisu was the best PvP during his tournament wins : Rain was the best PvP during his tournament winsBisu had bracket luck by consistently getting PvP matches : Rain had bracket luck by consistently getting PvP matches Had Stork defeated Bisu in tournament matchups he'd be easily considered the GOAT : Had Snow defeated Rain in tournament matchups he'd be considered the best Protoss of the ASL eraGolds: MSL1: defeats Savior well earned since then MSL2: Defeats Stork MSL3: Defeats BachHo, Defeats Much, Defeats Free, Defeats Jangbi GOMTV Classic S2: Defeats Jangbi WCG 2009: Defeats Free, Defeats Stork Bisu being the greatest PvPer of all time and the bracket luck delivering him Protoss after Protoss is a huge reason for his individual tournament success. If Stork beats Bisu in both finals he's the GOAT, if Jangbi beats Bisu both times he becomes the GOAT. That DOES not take away how good Bisu was during that time period, it just greatly shifts the focus on who was the best during a given time period. It is in this same perspective that I look at Rain and Snow. Snow during the same time period was the best PvTer, was the only Protoss in nearly a decade to defeat Flash in a boX series (yes you can argue map pool), and posted similar results to Rain. Had he defeated Rain both times he would easily be considered the better protoss of that era. | ||
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3806 Posts
On September 04 2020 14:53 konadora wrote: a bit off topic but I'm heading to Korea in two weeks for work and I'll be free on weekends. Is there still no live audience? Nope, in fact in the Greater Seoul area we recently moved up to the '2.5' lockdown level due to new cluster infections. This means a lot of stuff is either closed or has stronger restrictions (for example all coffee shops are now takeout-only). So live audiences are not going to happen any time soon | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19199 Posts
On September 05 2020 08:48 ShloobeR wrote: Nope, in fact in the Greater Seoul area we recently moved up to the '2.5' lockdown level due to new cluster infections. This means a lot of stuff is either closed or has stronger restrictions (for example all coffee shops are not takeout-only). So live audiences are not going to happen any time soon That being said you are well known enough that you should be invited to the studio. If you need me to talk to afreeca staff for you please send a PM. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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Optimate
244 Posts
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Mettis
84 Posts
On September 04 2020 10:41 Kuks wrote: Thing are getting heated. oof I don't see the point in arguing about Rain, he will not playing this season. But Stork! No doubt he will be seeded into season 11. I realize he has had a rough go of ASL. When the tournaments first started he was struggling to get out of the round of 24 consistently. Each season he has worked hard and its showing in his improved performance. Last season he did the best of all the Protoss players! Stork may not be the most mechanical player, but he is one of the most clever. He seems to figure out new and strange maps quick and begin defining the meta on them. This season certainly is outside the box, wtf is Plasma? None of the mainstream maps like Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breakers, or Neo Sylphid are in here, which should favor Stork. Best said it best, "Its like everything he (Stork) says is gospel". Snow is exceptional, no doubt there! His one base win vs Soulkey's 3 hatch hydra was the most well played game of ASL so far. I would expect Snow to place right behind Stork. What an exciting season this will be! I just wanted to know if he was retired or not and then it turned into a shitshow. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
On September 06 2020 23:52 Mettis wrote: I just wanted to know if he was retired or not and then it turned into a shitshow. Fear not, not a shitshow, just one angry poster that can't accept that Rain's biggest strenght was PvP, even if that is not exactly saying anything bad about him. All good But rain is out of the loop for a long time, you will not get much lucking finding him in bw relevant matches these days. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On September 04 2020 09:04 Avi-Love wrote: Stork has a significant losing record against pretty much everyone in the entire ASL, the only upside is that he might beat Rush in a bo1 and then have a shot at getting out 2nd in his group -- but Rush and Larva are both a lot better than him. Best pretty much always chokes when it matters, regardless of how well he does in minor events and in spon games, so best to just assume the worst. Mini used to be respectable, but 4-5 months ago it seems like he fell off a cliff, he's very shaky and the quality of his play varies wildly, way too inconsistent to make it deep. Bisu/Snow are the only real chance P has of doing anything in this ASL, in my opinion. Although I still maintain that IF Flash plays T, he's a lock for the win -- otherwise LighT is. They are both just a step above the competition, and with almost all of the maps being good for T in both matchups, this ASL almost feels predetermined. I agree with your sentiments on Snow, Mini and Best. Not on Bisu & Stork. + Show Spoiler + but if you are right then after Group A there's not much chance for toss this season either | ||
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Raendenth
2 Posts
On August 29 2020 22:41 BLinD-RawR wrote: if he actually commits to playing random this ASL I will change it. but know this, flash is known to troll. I saw it has been changed on liquipedia, after apearing officially on Ro24 group A. Pretty excited to see what Flash can achieve playing Random. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
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ggsimida
1140 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
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Hazard17
6 Posts
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neustadt
Germany37 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On October 15 2020 20:28 neustadt wrote: Does someone know the dates of the next rounds? Sunday, Tuesday, Sunday, Tuesday AFAIK | ||
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